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Follow my advice and YOU notify HR and it’s HIGHLY UNLIKELY they will fire her because it opens a serious and VERY LIKELY case of sexual harassment.

I agree!

She keeps saying that she won't be able to stay at her company if she tells HR since it will forever be in her file. I don't think that is true (I know it will be in her file forever, but I don't think they will hold it against her, since this guy has a file with HR already about making sexual innuendos towards another of his subordinates).

How do you know this OM already has a warning against him?

Your wife keeps giving you excuses. What are you going to do the next time she has to go on a business trip with or without the OM.

How do you know the affair is not continuing right now to some degree in the hallways.

If this guy already has warnings against him, then damnit he is a real problem and HR is going to be more than concerned.

Okay, she the OM already has a warning against him for this situation, did the other woman get fired, I seriously doubt it, was she fired for complaining?

I know because he told my wife about it. She was not fired for complaining. It's a bit different than sleeping with him though.

I don't know it's not going on but my wife has told me she told him it was over and he was not happy about it. As far as next business trip, she is going next week, so who knows... Just be sad I guess, haha.

EDIT: How do I quote on this forum? Haha, I'm sorry but I just don't see it.

[This message edited by desertmirage at 11:35 AM, September 27th (Tuesday)]

You quote by highlighting the section you want to quote, then you click on the quote button to the left.

As far as next business trip, she is going next week, so who knows... Just be sad I guess, haha.

I just cannot believe you are being this reactive instead of proactive.

You are just going to be sad. You don't know if the affair continues, and your wife continues to talk to the OM every day.

And yet, the OM is going on this trip again with your wife.

Your wife told you he already had a warning against him, why would he even tell her that. I think this situation is a little out of control. Your wife tells you all this and you believe it all.

I do not think your wife should go on this trip.

I do think YOU as her husband files a complaint with HR, he already has a reputation with HR of being a sexual problem and most likely a lawsuit problem against the company.

YOU call HR as the husband and file a complaint today, before this so-called business trip. How do you even know it is a business trip.

You sure believe your wife a great deal.

Oh, he's not going with her. He is going to be gone for a few weeks on his own.

Oh, he's not going with her. He is going to be gone for a few weeks on his own.

Once again, how do you know this, because your wife told you.

#1, you need to report to HR today.

#2, your wife does not go on this trip.

Or you hire a PI and have her followed while on this trip. This is serious stuff and more often than not, affairs continue.

Who says he's not going to go? Your wife? You cannot, in any way, think of her as a reliable source of truth. You have to be able to verify what she says to you. I know how difficult this is. Even when all I got was lies it took a long time for my default position of always just believing what she said to me to stop functioning. You have to get out of the habit of believing her words. I'm really sorry.

There's no way in hell I'd allow my WH to go on a business trip at this point. She is not to be trusted, her words mean absolutely nothing.

Seriously, man. These guys are ON YOUR SIDE! Please don't be obtuse.

Cheaters lie. They LIE. Your wife's story really stinks. I know a stinky story. My husband told me over and over that they did NOT have sex. Well, yes they had sex. He justified the lies by saying he wasn't, ahem, fully aroused. He was aroused enough for penetration and ejaculation, but not FULLY.

Then, I got, "well Maybe TECHNICALLY they had sex". Good grief.

Cheaters lie. They trickle truth. She hasn't been blackout drunk with you - only when she has been promiscuous with other men. Don't you think that this is her way of saying she wasn't really at fault for what she did because she blacked out? Sorry I do not believe her.

They should not work together. At all. Not another day. No work trip. She shouldn't even consider working with him or a work trip at this time if she seriously wants to reconcile.

The lies stop today. Book the poly. Inform HR. Take back your life.

I am sorry I was not gentle. This is not my posting style, but I see so many experienced guys trying to help you out and you seem to want to keep your head in the sand. Good luck.

I'm sorry. I'm just having a hard time not trusting her. It was just a week ago that I trusted her more than anyone.

I'm sorry. I'm just having a hard time not trusting her. It was just a week ago that I trusted her more than anyone.

How can you even trust her now, let alone having a hard time not trusting her.

She is a liar, has been found kissing one other guy, and having sex with another guy several times.

What is there to trust for crying out loud.

She either doesn't go on this trip or you hire a PI.

Hey Desert,

That tidbit about the OM already having a black mark in his file for sexual harassment really makes a difference…

It places OM square in the hot-seat and further makes it really really hard for the company to fire your wife. After all – they do that and any good attorney will quickly point out that the company hadn’t taken efficient action after the first complaint, shouldn’t have made OM the boss of female employees, didn’t monitor that he kept his hands to himself… Heck… You should WISH they fire her because I’m guessing the settlement could be about the value of a house or so.

Mark in her file? Well… possibly. But for a subordinate to have a relationship with a superior isn’t as serious as a superior screwing a subordinate.

Desert – Lets assume the affair is over. Let’s assume your wife is being honest in that SHE wants it over.

But what about OM?

How are you going to prevent him from placing his hand on WW shoulder when he leans over to see her computer-screen? How will you prevent him from fondling her ass when she walks past him out a meeting-room? How do you prevent him slipping into the elevator with her? How do you HELP your wife in being in a safe environment? The more time passes the harder it is for HER to talk to HR. The moment he’s no longer her boss… He’s free to play away as long as she doesn’t complain. Think she will dare tell you or go to HR?

I’m guessing OM is a player. He puts out the signals and picks up the responses. With the woman that filed he read the wrong signals. Probably several others in the company that have had their ass fondled by his hands that didn’t file a complaint.

How about you? Think you will feel OK when she’s at work? Will you be fine with her traveling and you not having a clue about where OM is? Will you go to the annual party? Wonder if they are laughing with you or at you?

Nothing at all will help your marriage and help your WIFE right now as you contacting HR.

And Desert…

I know we are tough on you but honestly… you are doing fine. I have been here for some time and have experienced the burn-out of trying to help people that ask for help but ignore the advice offered. Honestly I simply give up on probably way too many cases simply because I don’t get a sense that the poster is ready to take action. You are doing fine, and I still believe that you will create conditions conductive to reconciliation. We will push you, but this is a bit like jumping for the first time with a parachute. All we will do is encourage you to leave the plane and trust the parachute. It’s up to you to jump. You are doing fine and have come further than most betrayed spouse.

[This message edited by Bigger at 4:09 PM, September 27th (Tuesday)]

One tip:

All these things said about your wife… Well… They are true. She did cheat, she has lied and she has exhibited some of the classic WW symptoms like trickle-truth, minimizing, justifying…

But that’s not your wife. That’s your wayward wife.

If you can then look at her as two people. There is the W and the WW. You want to eradicate the WW but feed the W so she becomes the dominant personality. You want to believe W but not until you are certain WW has gone. You want to trust W but not until WW has left the building.

At times the W might be dominant, but there are times when WW tells W to ease up on herself and remind W how exciting the affair was and how she can fool you.

Until you are certain that the WW is gone and your W is in control… You encourage the W to thrive but take care not to be bitten by the WW.

It's time to snap you out of Betaville.

You cannot, in any way, think of her as a reliable source of truth

I have been exactly where you are. Trust her not a wit about this.

Just checking in showing support. How's it going desertmirage? You doing okay?

A comment about your wife involving a story from a friend of mine.

This was about 10 years ago. My friend (let's call her K) was the BS in her marriage. The WH was truly sorry for what he did, he admitted that he had been a bad husband, in general, and he sought out to fix his ways.

The WH was a teacher at an elementary. The OW was another teacher at same the elementary school. He immediately requested a transfer to a different school... but that could not be honored until the next school year. So, he was more or less "stuck" working with the OW.

The WH did something very impressive, I think.

First, he went to the OW and told her that it was over and that they couldn't be friends. The next day, she sat down next to him at lunch... he immediately asked her to sit elsewhere. She replied "Hey, we can still be friends." He said, "No, we cannot. I'm sorry but my marriage is more important and because of our history, we can no longer be friends. We work together and some interaction is going to be required, but I want it to be as infrequent as possible."

Second, he went to the Principal and admitted the affair. He told the Principal that he regretted the affair and that he was trying to fix his marriage. He admitted everything and took responsibility. He asked the Principal for as much help as possible to ensure that the WH and OW had as little professional contact as possible.

I used to hate this guy because her hurt my friend. I admit to being cold to him at social functions and he might, in hindsight, agree that he "earned" my cold shoulder. In hindsight, now knowing what he did, I like the guy a lot better and I feel like I owe him an apology.

Anyway, the point being... THIS GUY did what he needed to do to give his marriage a chance. He did not make excuses. He accepted 100% of the blame. And did numerous, uncomfortable things that made him look awful... all for the sake of saving his marriage.

Maybe read this story to your wife?

On another topic, I am not a lawyer, but if her boss has already been accused of sexual harassment, then she is in fine shape, legally speaking. In fact, if she was a scummy person, I think that she would easily have a lawsuit against her boss and his company even if she had no retribution. She has been sexually harassed (even if she acquiesced), by definition (a boss cannot make any pass at an employee; the multiple events and even the masturbation after she refused... all sexual harassment).

Her company allowed a person who committed some previous act of sexual harassment to remain on staff... and then he did it again. If she is fired for reporting this, then she is in even better position legally speaking.

Most likely, she is protecting him from getting fired by her company.

Hi guys! I'm feeling much better today, thanks. Yesterday was really hard for some reason but today is a new day. I started Crossfit last night and it kicked my ass. Feels good being sore! We spoke some more and I read her Bigger's comment about what happens if this guy starts touching her and whatnot. She gets it. She said if we want to tell HR she's fine with it, just whatever will help fix the marriage. I know you guys keep telling me what I need to do, and I am reluctant but barcher's comment is exactly what I want my wife to do. To take responsibility for what has happened and make sure it doesn't continue/happen again.

I think she is starting to get over the relief feeling of telling me as well. She cried most of the night and kept telling me how sorry she was for fucking up our lives. She kept telling me how much she wishes she could just take it all back. We agreed that I would speak to my counselor tomorrow/friday/monday (whenever she can take me) and I am going to go through all this and see what she thinks as well.

She's not opposed to HR at all it seems, just scared for her own job (read her the bit about big lawsuit if she's fired because of his previous HR issues). She asked me what I thought of OM retaliating outside of work for getting fired. I told her I don't care and that is a police matter and if she really feels that way she should call the police. She said she wasn't sure (same reason why she initially found the other place. she wasn't sure how I would react). The story of things changes slightly every time it is told but I really honestly think we are making progress.

She's not opposed to HR at all it seems, just scared for her own job (read her the bit about big lawsuit if she's fired because of his previous HR issues). She asked me what I thought of OM retaliating outside of work for getting fired. I told her I don't care and that is a police matter and if she really feels that way she should call the police.

I think it is up to YOU to call HR and file the complaint. If this was an affair, mutually agreed to sex, what is your wife going to complain to HR about.

Was she coerced into sex with the boss, doesn't sound like it. Sounds like your wife gets drunk and fools around, and this is most certainly not the first guy she has done this with.

I think YOU should be the one to contact HR right now in a letter and a phone call.

You contact them as the angry but calm husband. That way, the OM cannot blame your wife.

Now she is worried about him retaliating, really. If he loses his job, tough stuff.

ETA: How much is your wife telling you about the day to day conversations she is having with the OM?

[This message edited by craig2001 at 9:24 AM, September 28th (Wednesday)]

there are certain things that can and will come back to haunt you later.

letting her be the one to contact HR is one of those things.

Hi craig2001. What do you base your assumption that this isn’t her first rodeo? Have to say I don’t see anything in what’s been shared that either supports that statement or refutes it. Don’t think there is much to gain in making things worse than they are…

I do however think one of the poly-questions should cover the possibility of her having had sex with someone other than you or the OM in the last 10 years. Good to cover all bases.

I also agree with that it’s better that YOU desert contact HR. It gives your wife a better stance. You can tell the HR rep that she’s in on you talking to them and is committed to the marriage.

Once again Desert: When you talk to HR do so either by phone or in person and follow it through with an e-mail covering what was discussed (for documentation). Note I didn’t say IF you talk to HR…