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She is not showing any remorse and I think she still has affair googles on. I spoke to multiple people professional friends who have experience in this area and they feel it's better to let her grief and come to a decision on her own. They also suggested if things don't improve after the holidays to start disclosing the affair to my family and friends. If she cheats/communicates again it's definitely over. The only rules we have in place now are nc with the affair partner outside of work stuff, keep the affair between us for now, and not talk about it until she wants too.

None of that is very good at all.

#1. She still shows no remorse at what she did. She might not even know how to show remorse, or even understand what the huge effects of what she did do. Has she read any books about affairs at this point, like how to help your spouse heal from the affair.

#2. She still works with the OM, that really does need to stop.

#3. Not talk about the affair unless she wants to, that is the worst of all. No WS wants to talk about the affair, but the BS always does. This is very unfair to you.

Not disclosing the affair to the other mans wife will not work in your best interest. Nothing can be done on your marriage until the affair ends. As long as they have contact the affair will continue. Workplace affairs are the hardest to stop. Affairs are addictive. Get the addict around the source you have relapse. It happens all the time.

Many think exposure will push them away but in fact they are already gone. It's about the only weapon to stop it and possibly bring them back. Why? Affairs only thrive in secret and the dark. When it's exposed it becomes a liability to them. You are doing them a great favor by helping to hide their affair and probably enabling it further. Better wake up to what you are dealing with. Consequeces are a good thing.

Begging, pleading and crying only pushes them further away but if you detach and go your own way (do the 180) it has a tendency to wake them up. If I were you I'd remove my wedding ring until this stops and move her out of your bedroom. Its consequences. Wake her up!!!!!

[This message edited by Marc878 at 12:27 PM, November 26th (Saturday)]

She is not showing any remorse and I think she still has affair googles on.

It's because the affair is ongoing. Cheaters can always find a way to figure out how to hook up.

You should be in full investigation mode. You're in the dark and have no idea what's going on. Furthermore you are setting back waiting for her to make a decision on whether to dump you or not. The ones who come out of these situations best get strong quick and take control of their life. You can't control or make her do anything. You appear to be passive. That will not work in your favor here.

You've been put in a bad situation. No one is going to fix this for you. You'll have to it yourself. The Calvary isn't coming!!!!

Your actions at this time are telling her this.

I will help hide your affair until you decide my fate.

You are worth more than me so I'll wait until you decide whether you want to keep me or not.

Everything is based on what you want and I don't count for much.

Your actions with the 180 and going out with friends are good. Do more!!!! I would not answer her phone calls directly and only reply to texts about kids or finances. This will work better than being needy or clingy. Weakness at this time is highly unnattractive and will get you nothing.

IMO, since you have no real evidence and if this goes south you may have some recourse. VAR her car and do a deleted text recovery on her phone.

Right now you are in the dark. Mouth shut, eyes and ears open.

You've been put in a bad spot. Sorry man

Your making a huge mistake by not informing the OBS. The affair is still ongoing, don't think for 1 minute that its not. To end it, the OBS needs to be told. If your listening to other people telling you not to inform the OBS, they are totally clueless an wrong. Many so-called councilors will advise against telling the OBS, under the premise that you, are now meddling in someone s marriage an that it will only hurt the OBS. Shear stupidity on councilors that advise not to tell. Is that why you haven't told the OBS. Or is it the fact you don't want to make your wife mad.If it is get over that. The affair is on-going, tell the OBS an end it an knock our wife off the fence.

Your making a huge mistake by not informing the OBS. The affair is still ongoing, don't think for 1 minute that its not. To end it, the OBS needs to be told. If your listening to other people telling you not to inform the OBS, they are totally clueless an wrong. Many so-called councilors will advise against telling the OBS, under the premise that you, are now meddling in someone s marriage an that it will only hurt the OBS. Shear stupidity on councilors that advise not to tell. Is that why you haven't told the OBS? Or is it the fact you don't want to make your wife mad?If it is get over that. The affair is on-going, tell the OBS an end it an knock our wife off the fence.STAY STRONG.

I've been trying like crazy to find the obs contact info and I can locate. I've paid multiple internet services but not listed.

I thing she met him again after a work party this week and my GPS tracking on her in the parking deck for 30 minutes after she left the party. Came home chewing gum and the front passenger seat way way back. Her make eye make up was a little messed up too.

It also found out she talking to a plastic surgeon for a boob job.

I plan on divorcing her. she is already gone. To save my marriage I need to risk loosing it. I am spendind the next 2 weeks to get things in order, but stuff for myself, get new brakes on the car,ect... but also protect my financial accounts and the like.

I hate to do this before the holidays with the kids.

I wrote a letter to her and want to see what the group thinks. I will be putting my wedding ring in the envelope with it.

I have written this letter with the true love that only a husband can have for a wife.

When we married I thought it would be forever and have never considered that we would be apart one day. The thought that we may not grow old together truly pains me. We have shared great times together and have navigated some challenging obstacles, but we had each other and for 16 wonderful years it was enough.

Since I have learned about the affair I feel my love for you diminishing. I am at a loss for words on how you could hurt so badly the people you are supposed to care for and love the most, your husband, your daughter, your son, your family? Your affair was a selfish act. You may not believe that and may have even rationalized it in some way but there is NO justification for having an affair and bringing with it the pain the deviation that it has brought and will bring to bring the most important thing in your life, your family. No person let alone your own children should ever have to deal with the pain you have caused. I have really tried to understand your actions. I understand that we BOTH must take part responsibility for letting our marriage get to the point where you felt this was an option. I will NOT take responsibility for you having an affair no matter how bad or how unhappy you thought our marriage was.

There are some universal traits about LOVE? Love cares what becomes of you. Love is inherently compassionate and empathetic. Love always acts in the best interest of the other person. Love also points out the consequences of hurting oneself or others. It is because of LOVE that I am writing you this letter. It is because of love that I am concerned for you.

Your words say you want to try to save our marriage but your actions prove different. You may want to save our marriage but don’t know how. This may be your way of trying to end our marriage. You may not know what you want and your thoughts on continuing the affair or stopping it may still fluctuate, even on a daily basis. But know you have risked everything by you actions and this affair….your children, your family, your job, your career, your friends, and the only man who has ever loved you unconditionally as only a devoted husband who loves his wife can. Is it worth it?

One of the reasons I love you is because you are smart, strong, and independent but you are also stubborn and think you are always right. These are not bad traits to have but I only hope you have given an immense deal of thought to fully understand your reasons for having an affair, continuing with the affair and the major consequences it has had and will continue to have. These are just a few questions I hope you have given incredible amount of thought to.

Do you really think KW will meet your emotional needs after this infatuation wears off?

Do you ever wonder what other people and our friends and family will think when they find out?

Have you ever thought about how this risks your job and your career?

Do you ever wonder what impact this is going to have on our children M and B?

I love you and I know this is very difficult for you. You have given your love and affection to another man. You are at an intersection in your life and need to make a decision that will ultimately affect the rest of not only your life but our lives’, and our kid’s lives. Through this we have built up walls to help protect ourselves and our emotions. This makes it easier not to deal with the truth. This makes it easier to take the path of least resistance in life but that path is not always the right one to take. It’s easy to run from the mess we made, denying the truth and moving on. Some decisions are tough and are scary, but no one said life would be easy, it’s supposed to be hard and painful. Then the easy times are even more enjoyable. You’re standing at the intersection only you can make the decision as to when and what direction to turn.

I LOVE you but please don’t be fooled. This is not a letter to try to convince you to stay. It is a letter to show you how much pain you have caused to the people you love and care for. It is a letter to ensure that you look inside yourself to see if you want to be the person you want to be. It is a letter to make you think about the potential devastation that can happen by continuing to lie and deceive. But most of all it is a letter to help you heal, find the lesson in all of this, to be a better person, and to help ensure that you always act in the best interest of those you love and care about moving forward.

This letter is also about decisions I have to make. I recall you asking me during the time of the affair “why do you still love me”. My response was always similar. “I will always love you. Even when you’re old. Even if your 400 pounds. I will still love you.” I guess I never directly answered the question but for me it’s the feeling you get when you are all in with someone and you feel that other person is all in with you. A feeling that you would do anything for the other person and knowing that person would do anything for you. It’s the feeling that there is no obstacle you can’t overcome together. It’s the feeling that you can trust that person with your life and they will always have your best interest at heart. That’s true love that makes relationships last. Lust and infatuation is not LOVE.

I want this marriage, I want us to be a team again, I want this marriage to succeed, I want to grow old with you, I want our family to stay together. Marriage is always worth fighting for. But marriage is only worth fighting for if both people want to fight for it. Right now there is only one person in the fight.

All relationships can only exist on a foundation of trust and respect. This is true for a relationship between a husband and wife, a relationship between father and mother raising their children, and even just as friends. We somehow misplaced our foundation of trust and respect. Without truth and respect for each other we have nothing. We currently have NOTHING. I know you have NOT been truthful to me even after the affair was revealed. Nothing good ever comes from lies, deceit and omission. We have a duty as parents to be honest and respectful to each other. This is the first step to rebuilding a healthy relationship between us.

I love you and I understand sometimes truth is hard, truth is scary, truth can be hurtful but I know truth is necessary for both of us. I understand no one wants to be forced to look at the thing that caused pain over and over again. Please know there is nothing you can share than is worse than not knowing. We must always assume truth is more important that hurt feelings or self-protection.

Because of my love and respect for you and for my own self-respect, I will not allow you to keep acting this way. I say this with a heavy heart as until YOU are able to PROVE, not with words but with actions that we can start to rebuild our marriage based on respect and truth I can no longer be/act as your husband.

This is not to punish you; it is to protect my feelings for you and our chances at reconciliation. I ask that you please respect my decision. Because I love you these are the things that must happen for us to move forward…….

Commitment to Truth:

-Nothing short of the truth about everything.

-NO more lies, NO more deceit, NO more deliberate misleading, NO more lies of omission period!

-Always assume truth is more important that hurt feelings or self-protection

Commitment No Contact with KW:

-Only work related business using work based communication (not personal cell phone) during normal business hours (work cell phone, work email, i.e.)

-NO physical 1:1 meetings and NO attending after work events where he is present.

Commitment to Moving Forward:

-A sincere and remorseful apology

-Developing a detailed recovery plan

I do not know what the future holds for us. I know that I want to grow old with you, I want us to be a team again, and I want us rebuild our marriage. I want us to be able to meet each other’s needs and avoid hurting each other. I want everything we do to make us both happy so that there will be no need to even get to this point again. I loved you more than life itself while we were together, and I continue to do so as I write this.

When you find yourself ready and willing to truly and fully commit our marriage and willing to work on a plan for our recovery, I will be ready and willing to discuss our future.

Please do NOT send that letter.

She already *knows* everything you have written. She is actively choosing infidelity.

What is your choice?

It's hard. I'm sorry.

Sending you strength brother.

I agree don't send the letter. Its everything you have told her and she knows. I know it sucks, I been there recently too. I wrote letters. In the end it made me look weak and used for humor with her and her friends. If your wife showed even a smidge of remorse I would say send and see what happens. But I am sorry I don't see that with her.

It just is more of you looking for a wife that is not there. I would love to have her be accountable and reading this would help you both. But again this is just my opinion I don't see that with her. To me I think you need to just do for you and show her that you are not this wrapped up and begging.

Yes I came across like this too. Others here that are way more better at reading things than me can help you but I dealt with a non remorseful wife. I think you have the same. Show strength and respect for yourself as you will not get that from her.

Wishing you better days all the same man.

I'm sorry you are here.. I agree, don't send it. She does already know all of this, she has decided its not what she wants.

A letter is not going to change her mind. If she is going to change her mind it will require action on your part. If she is already gone, all you can do is take care of yourself.. I am very sorry you are in this situation, its up to you to get yourself out..

I know its hard.. Take care of yourself.

Yes let me chime in and also say that the letter is WAAAAAAYYYYYY too long. A WS who is actively in an A will either not read that letter or get thru to the 2nd paragraph and just chuck it. They are not hearing you, so that letter to them is just an annoyance.

I say keep the letter for yourself, go back and look at it a day from now or a week from now or 2 months from now, consider it your way of journaling your thoughts.

The best defense is a good offense. You mentioned you are trying to get your ducks in a row, that is actually a very positive thing to do. Work on your financials and distancing yourself from your WW. Think of what you want to do to start this whole process.

Listen we have all been there, I wrote one of those letters as well, I am sure every BS here wrote that letter in hopes that our WS would read it and magically *poof* change their mindset. And it never happens, she is not there. She is actively in an A right now and sadly she is not thinking of you at all, she can only see her next "hit" or "high" of the affair. You are someone who is in the way of her "happiness" or what she perceives it to be. It is not going to change cuz you wrote a letter.

This whole thing is terribly hard and sad and takes time to wrap our brains around how truly bad it is. Been there, done that.

Keep moving forward with your plans and the attorney. Nothing knocks a person out of an A faster then a BS with D papers. And if that does not work then she was not going to change anyway...just was not going to happen. She will be too far gone.

[This message edited by realitybites at 12:21 PM, December 1st (Thursday)]

DO NOT give her that letter. If you have decided to divorce (the right decision in your case) just have her served with the papers and detach. The ONLY interaction you have with her is kids, finances, and getting the papers signed.

NOTHING else. NOTHING.

Make sure you have your ducks in a row, Seperate bank accounts, cancel all joint credit cards, have your pay going to a new Seperate account (in a different bank that the one you currently use), have a post office box for all new work, pay, credit card, anything to go to. Stop using your home address for financials.

Prior to any final hearing you will most likely be responsible for at least half the costs and living expenses so you do need to keep contributing to those, but not a penny more.

Get copies of all important documents, kids births certificates, deeds, etc... get a safety deposit box at your new bank and keep them there until the divorce is over.

You do not need to be hateful but she has reduced your marriage to a business transaction. That business transaction is the divorce. You need to get the best long term deal you can out of it. Everything is an arms length negotiation from this point forward. As hard as it is... it needs to stop being personal and it needs to be all business.

Too bad it has come to this but your wayward is not remorseful. Even if not actively in an affair anymore, she has checked out of the marriage.

And.. Just to be clear... DO NOT GIVE HER THAT LETTER!

I have to agree with the above posters, please do not send this letter. You will just be feeding her ego...

Now is the time to hit the 180 hard .... She knows you will always be there, that's why she felt safe having the affair. If it didn't work out she would still have you. Let her see/feel what life without you will feel like..

Strength to you my friend ..

CDB

She makes more money than I do. What should I do to protect myself. I can not afford half of all our bills?

Go talk to your attorney about this and what temporary orders can be placed with regard to exclusive home use for you and your kids as well as who is reponsible for maintenance cost of home and kids.

About the ONLY letter that she will respond to right now is one from the court the reads "Notice of Petition for Divorce".

Please read realitybites response to you above. I think it is perfectly written. I wish I read that when I was going thru my ordeal.

Seriously copy it and print it out. Read it every morning to get your mind in that mode. Its about as spot on advice you can get in situations like yours.

[This message edited by Gary1995 at 1:13 PM, December 1st (Thursday)]

Your lawyer will know.

Continued strength

So what if she makes more... everything applies the same. If you cannot afford 1/2 the expenses put in your proportional share based on your income.

Detach, detach, detach...

The only letter she needs to see from you is a Petition for Divorce.

I did the letter thing like you want but it doesn't do anything other than make you regret giving it to her.

Time to play hardball, your lawyer has been down this road many times so listen to him and do as he says whether you agree with it or not. You played the nice guy and look where it has gotten you, time for consequences.