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said that that her priority was us as a family. She said she doesnt know if she loves him and that she's "fu----d" up in the head. She loves me but not in love with me.

Not unusual. Not a good sign. She uses the term "in love" vs. "love." We all may have a different idea about "love" vs. "in love." But I think she uses the word "in love" to be the same as "infatuation." This is the new-relationship feeling, the butterflies in the stomach, the strong desire to be together, can't keep hands off of each other, it's like withdrawals when they can't be in contact with each other. Like an addiction. Probably you and her were like that when you first met.

What is really bad about that sign, her saying "in love" vs. "love," is that she somehow is under the mistaken expectation that a long-term marriage should have strong "in love" feelings. If I think about all of the people I've ever known who married 10 years, I can't think of a single one who had that "in love" infatuation feeling. The long-term marriage still will have mutual physical attraction, but it is not like the strong urgency, it is a more relaxed feeling, each know committed to the other, know they won't leave and cheat, trust and respect each other.

However, your wife thinks that your marriage should be the same "in love" as her new affair partner. She is a fool if she thinks that the "in love" feeling is going to be there very long once she leaves you to be with him. Soon enough, within a few years, that "in love" feeling will fade, and then a few years after that she will either finally realize it (too late for you, though) or she will be cheating again to find "in love" again. If she wants "in love," she is better off staying single, then she can breaks up easily ever 2-3 years and find another partner to feel "in love" with.

So, as long as she feels that way, that a long-term marriage should be madly "in love," then it is extremely unlikely she will come back to the marriage with full commitment. She won't feel that, especially while she still has that feeling with the other man.

I thought our life was perfect, and prided my self on being a great father and husband.

I think that many women want to be strongly sexually desired, courted, similar to the time when you were dating her. The changes in your both lives, the kids, the responsibilities of finances and chores, make that more difficult, however, too often I think, it almost completely goes away. There has to be some regular time about that. Not that it is YOUR fault, or HER fault, and certainly not a good reason to cheat. But to some degree, both spouses start taking each other for granted and don't keep up any romances at all.

We have always done everything for our kids and she is a good mother.

That's what I'm talking about. Not too much with the kids, but it can't be ONLY about the kids.

Now compare with her affair partner. All they talk about is how much desire they have for each other, how much they love each other, and how much they are connected, they feel "alive" for the first time since high school, etc. NOTICE nothing there about worrying about finances, chores, kids' grades and discipline, aging parents, extended family issues - just "I love yous" and sex. I call it the "affair bubble." Nothing of the harsh realities of life get in the bubble. A marriage cannot compete with that - it is like comparing apples to oranges - it is a completely different animal.

If your wife can't see that, it is a bad sign for reconciling.

We are living in the same house and are cordial to each other but she seems even more distant after d-day.

Like good friends, good roommates, but not sexual lovers. Not likely to change unless she figures out the difference between a long-term marriage vs. a "new" relationship.

I set a boundary if she sees him again it is over.

Well then if you ever get the truth, it is over. Because as I said earlier, this new infatuation, she can't go cold turkey. Especially if she sees the guy every day at work, there is going to be some temptations that she can't resist, even if she wants to. Like an addiction, like a teenage romance, all hot and heavy, and the NOT being able to see each other now because you've found out, that makes them want each other even more.

We've been talking a little but it's me doing all the talking so I am backing off and giving space.

I suggest she may have just give up with "no contact" with him by this point and the affair has re-started with a vengeance. That is based on the behavior you're seeing from her.

The problem is, they BOTH are still married, so for the time being, the affair is all they can do. They can't easily leave their marriage and their kids, and likely that one or the other is not wanting to leave their family. Frequently that is the male cheater, who has more of a component that he cares about the good affair sex, and less of a component of the emotional connection. The sex gives him the emotional connection. As opposed to the female cheater, who more often than not is much more into the emotional feelings and somewhat less caring about the sexual aspect.

So the male won't want to leave their kids and wife, while the female will, but only if the guy is willing to. It is not unusual that one is ready to jump to divorce while the other is dragging their feet. Just like when you were single, some guys are not ready, afraid of commitment - more often men than women, I think.

I never thought she could be malicious but i she a hate in her eyes sometime towards me. Other times she seems normal and we joke. I' asked her to see someone to discuss it but has yet to do so.

She is giving you lip service.

How much time do I give her to open up and start the process of healing. I have always been a pleaser and giving into her

I think you should figure out if she is still cheating. I recommend putting a voice-activacted recorder in her car for a week or so. Cheaters can't cheat openly at work, so usually they have their conversations, or more, in their cars. They suspect if you try to catch them that you will do so by looking at her phone or email or texts, but will not be expecting a recorder will be hidden in her car. You never would tell her about it, and you'd only use it for a week or so to see if she is still contacting him or not.

Telling the other man's wife is the single most effective thing you can do to end the affair.

Given my observation with your wife's mindset, likely she will leave you immediately if you do that, she will tell you the marriage is over. But at least you will know for sure where she stands, instead of the fake-acting she's doing now. It's not like she's really in the marriage now, just faking it.

On the other side, the other man's wife will know, and likely the other man will throw your wife under the bus, he will lie and minimize and say your wife pursued him, chased him, and he just couldn't run fast enough to get away. Then he will tell his wife he wants to stay married, keep in the family, etc. Sounds familiar? But your wife won't like that too much, she is thinking that the other man will choose her, not his wife. At that point, maybe your wife will come to reality, realize the deep love in a marriage vs. the intense but only surface love in an affair. So either she goes back to you because she realizes, or she comes back to you because that is the next best option - known as Plan B.

I do believe it is always a good idea to tell the other man's wife. I think to tell HR or your parents or hers or siblings or friends, etc., is situational. But telling other man's wife, that is so effective in ending the affair in the large majority of times, I always suggest doing it.

If all 3 of you work at the same company, go to HR and file a formal complaint. The higher the POS OM is in the hierarchy, the more trouble he will get into. This will accomplish two things:

1> POS OM will feel as if you kicked him in his balls. You will feel much better about how you dealt with that POS.

2> Your WW will realize that you have indeed have the balls to stand up and protect your family.

Sure, your wife may lose her job too, but that's a price should pay for violating your marriage. Don't worry about yourself - you won't lose your job for reporting them. And if she divorces you because you went to HR, well then, you know you were never her first priority, it was her OM and her job.

On dday when I first asked her about the affair and she admitted to it I asked if she loved him and she said "I dot know". Then I asked if you are leaving me for him. She said "they didn't have that coversaton". 2 weeks later when I initiated a talk with her she said she wouldn't sleep with someone she didn't have feeling for but the said she would wouldn't want that kind of relationship with him.

How do I know if this is an exit affair. I makes sense over the last few months she kept asking me "why do you love me". The physical affair started 6 months ago the emontonal affair probably started much longer than that. And during that recent discussion she asked if "If i was really happy with our relationship." Trying to shift blame on me.

I am talking to another lawyer today and think approaching the other spouse maybe a good idea. But I think my wife will be super missed, which is probably a good first step for me, but I have a feeling it will lead to super messy divorce.

I like the idea about the voice activated recorder in the car but doesn't that go against the 180. Also, it may be financially better for me to wait it out a few months, knowing I will be filling for divorce as she makes 2x my salary and save some side money? Thoughts?

Also this is the OM second marriage too

Get the VAR. The more knowledge you have at this time the better. Never reveal your source of info. Get a Sony with good batteries.

Exposure at least to the other spouse is always needed. The truth fixes a lot of things. It will normally shock them into reality and end the affair. Do not warn or tell your wife. Let them deal with it. Yes she'll be pissed off but that's normal.

If you want to divorce just file. You won't need to do anything else if you're going that route.

[This message edited by Marc878 at 6:55 AM, November 18th (Friday)]

If you have access to her phone that's the best evidence you can get. Recovered deleted text messages. If evidence is what you seek.

How do you recover deleted text messages?

How do I know if this is an exit affair.

She's got a foot on the boat and a foot on the pier. Pull the boat away from the pier. She'll decide real sudden-like.

Don't be afraid to completely change your life. Change jobs, move to a new place, etc. She can follow or not, but she will have to choose, and you will be in control of your life.

Sending strength!

Dr. Fone is one. There are many. But most do the same recover and have the same rate of success.

Most deleted messages are gone. But out of a thousand or so I was able to get about 200 back and not all in the same chain. It was enough but most of those 200 were junk "lol" replies etc..

Var recorder taped to under the seat or dash has yielded results for a lot. There are thread here that recommend them. Some say get 2 so you can swap them out to review data. Never ever reveal your source let them think you always know more than you do and wonder how the fuck your getting it drives them crazy..

If you feel D is your route it is a waste of effort, most states are 50/50 split no fault.

You have to expose the affair to his wife 10000x have to do this!!!! It will kill the "affair bubble" faster than anything. Bring reality back into her world.

She can be mad all she wants at the end of the day it was her choice to sleep with another married man!

P.S. I ran the recovery app on the stored backup on the computer didn't even need access to her phone.

[This message edited by sneaker at 8:15 AM, November 18th (Friday)]

How do you recover deleted text messages?

Go online and read up. Recovery of deleted text messages.

Fonelab is nod of the better rated. There are many .

You would have to have access to her phone or sync it to a PC.

She's got a foot on the boat and a foot on the pier. Pull the boat away from the pier. She'll decide real sudden-like.

Don't be afraid to completely change your life. Change jobs, move to a new place, etc. She can follow or not, but she will have to choose, and you will be in control of your life.

Sending strength

This!!!!

Your wife is secretly waging a war against you. Trying to keep her world together and keep the status quo, get you to rug sweep or make the decisions so she can have someone to blame. Pull that boat away from the pier. Tell the other betrayed spouse, cause her to find herself back into reality and having to learn to swim!

[This message edited by sneaker at 8:16 AM, November 18th (Friday)]

i agree with bigger. you are putting all the power in her hands. letting her drive the relationship car - and you see her track record of judgement there (an A).

dont ask. TELL her..

1: you arent prepared to be in a relationship with 3 people. she can choose to be with OM and you will pack her bags and let her go. or she can choose to be with you. but you refuse to share your wife.

2: all electronics, social media, email accounts, phones, etc - will have the passwords given to you and you can and will look at them whenever you want. she can either choose her lies, secrets, and affairs or she can choose honesty, transparency, and you. if she refuses you will just assume the affair is ongoing.

3: she will need to go to individual counseling to find out why she has such poor boundaries, why she thought an affair was an acceptable and healthy choice, and she will need to work hard to correct these character flaws so she can become a safe partner. you arent prepared to invest your life with an unsafe partner.

4: she will provide a timeline detailing all major revelations of the affair (when it started, when it became physical, was it at your house, etc). you are prepared to say that you wont necessarily leave her over any details she provides in that timeline but if you discover lies (including via ommission or minimizing or distortion) later then you will be forced to re-evaluate your desire to remain in the marriage.

5: she will write a no-contact letter with OM, which you will read and approve, and then YOU will send that letter to OM.

6: your wife will have to actively search for new employment and within X period of time leave the company to work elsewhere. this is a consequence of the affair. its been found that people who have had affairs and remain in continued contact almost always relapse into the affair.

based upon 1-6 AND your wifes remorse (or lack thereof) you will either choose to proceed with a divorce or reconciliation.

why are you letting her choose whether you forgive her for the unforgiveable?

Make sure you fully understand your wife and other man are heading to destroy your life, future and family as you now know it. Get strong and get a well thought out plan together.

You have every right to do what's necessary to protect yourself, your kids, etc.

You may depending on the state you're in have alienation of affection rights.

You'll need evidence. I know one guy who had an attorney send a letter into the other mans HR dept request all email and phone records between other man and his wife. Big monkey wrench

At this time mouth shut, eyes and ears open until you decide what you want.

I would not wait until she figured out what she wanted.

Good luck

On dday when I first asked her about the affair and she admitted to it I asked if she loved him and she said "I dot know". Then I asked if you are leaving me for him. She said "they didn't have that coversaton". 2 weeks later when I initiated a talk with her she said she wouldn't sleep with someone she didn't have feeling for but the said she would wouldn't want that kind of relationship with him.

My take is that she would run away with him but OM doesn't want to.

In this situation your best bet it to tell the OBS. There is reason they haven't ridden off into the sunset together. OM might not want the financial strains of a second divorce or your WW might just be a plaything. What normally happens after you tell OBS is that OM is so busy trying to save his marriage that he throws your WW under the bus. WW realizes she was just a plaything and starts reevaluation what she has done. Yes, she might get mad at you for telling but...OBS has a right to know. STD's could be passed, OBS might be killing herself trying to make her marriage work...not knowing it's not possible with three people. OBS might have additional information for you...

Do not tell your WW before you do it or that you might do it. Do not try to blackmail OM with the Affair. Do not try to get WW to tell...

When WW get's mad about you telling think about what you will say. Sorry you feel that way. She is married to OM she deserves to know.

If this was an exit affair she was gone anyway so telling isn't going to make a difference. If not, the "fun, fantasy, secret..." part of the affair will die and she will see she is just an OW having an affair with a married man.

I agree she will be pissed if you tell other man's wife, I disagree it will make the divorce messy. You tell her you were fighting for her and fighting for your marriage and family and kids, and all you did was tell the truth, not the lies she has been telling and him too. Why should other man's wife be in the dark and made the fool, isn't that cruel to keep her from the truth. Your wife and other man lied and deceived to hurt both you and other man's wife. What would your wife want, to know or be kept in a lie?

Your wife will be pissed, but she will get over it.

We used Dr. Fone to attempt to retrieve all the texts she deleted before going to HR. We got a bunch but not all. It was a nice program though, and easy to use. I'd recommend it.

GoodGuy: I wish I had seen your original post sooner - my situation is EXACTLY like yours... only longer and messier. Maybe I can give you some guidance.

The very first step in pulling yourself through this nightmare is to regain control of yourself and your confidence. The "Good Guy" thing is common for a lot of us - but it is no longer appropriate. It's time for the "Good Guy" to step aside and allow himself to be angry, a bit demanding, and, most importantly, intolerant to being treated disrespectfully. That means that YOU decide how you want to proceed regardless of what your wife wants. If she wants you, if she wants the marriage, then SHE comes after YOU. She says to YOU, "What can I do to help you heal? To make you feel safe?"

That is going to take time. It's the rare WS that has a come-to-Jesus moment immediately on discovery. So... what to do until she pulls her head out of her ass? I love Bigger's perspective. You simply let her know that she can do whatever she wants. She's unsure? No problem. She wants to screw the OM? Go for it! But not as your wife. You sit her down at the kitchen table, look her right in the eyes so she knows this conversation has some teeth to it, and you tell her exactly that. If she's unsure, if she can't commit 100%, the she can get up, pack her bag, and leave.

The one thing I learned - and I wish I had found this site 2 weeks after MY dday - is that there are far worse things than having a wife cheat on you. The worst? Having to REMAIN in infidelity. So don't let it proceed. Move toward getting yourself into a better position, with or without her.

Another thing - and I'm sorry to tell you this - the affair is likely WAY worse than you think. High powered jobs with a lot of stress are affair-makers. My wife is incredibly smart and successful. I never, ever thought that she could possibly be doing the things she was doing. They literally made me step back and wonder if I ever even knew who she was. If you need the details, demand them. But please, don't be overwhelmed if you find out some really awful stuff about your wife.

I have so much more to write because your situation is so similar to mine but I will end with this - and it's just more support for what others have said. You must, you MUST, tell his wife. First, it will help to kill the affair. More importantly, however, it is the right thing to do. Would YOU have wanted to be told? Just find her number and call her. Get it done.

Good luck. PM me if you need help.

[This message edited by LifeisCrazy at 9:10 AM, November 18th (Friday)]

Talk with your attorney before speaking to HR.

Even though her income is 2x yours, if she looses her job and her income drops some courts will then award her alimony/child support that you will have to pay.

It may be better to divorce and then expose the affair to HR.

Please address this specifically with your attorney.