SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Affairs only thrive in secret and the dark. It becomes a whole new ballgame when you shine a light on it. It also gives you control back for your life and closure.

"We have always done everything for our kids and she is a good mother."

obviously this isnt so ... unless you believe she had an affair for the kids!

nor is she a good mother. her betrayal wasnt just a betrayal of you and your marriage. it was also a betrayal of your children. each minute she spent away in pursuit of her affair was a minute stolen from your kids, she stabbed them in the back every bit as much as she stabbed you in the back. good mothers dont lie to their kids ('hey kids, im on the way to sleep with om now' vs 'mommy needs to work late'), dont betray them, and dont lie to them to spend time away from them.

that statement screams out you have your wife on a pedestal. she doesnt belong there. i get you love your wife. but that doesnt change that she doesnt belong on that pedestal anymore.

exposure is your best friend. affairs thrive in the dark and secrets are an aphrodisiac. the only way to ensure that the affair ends is to expose it to the light. but its also a moral imperative. someone else is being betrayed too. if it were you ... wouldnt you want to know? its important you tell the other betrayed spouse. allow them to have the truth so they can make their own life choices. in a practical sense it benefits you too because the two of you together can help kill the fun associated with an affair real quick with a hard dose of reality.

you dont need to decide to reconcile or divorce now. save that decision for some months down the road.

right now your first priority is to remove yourself from a position of infidelity. you cant make other people do anything but you can choose to accept it or not. dont accept it. lay out a list of boundaries and consequences (but never anything you arent prepared to stick too or else you run the risk of becoming the pro wrestling referee saying "stop or i tell you stop again").

her affair itself should have consequences. she lied, cheated, and betrayed so shes lost the right to automatic trust. fair enough, right?

her electronics (email, phone, chat, social media, etc) need to be transparent (you get passwords).

no more lies. no more new affairs. no more continuation of the old affairs.

a timeline of what happened and when. this helps to verify you have the whole truth and prevents the slow and evolving truth (aka gaslighting, tricktruthing, etc).

you both may own marital problems 50/50 but she owns the affair. you werent told, you werent asked, you didnt tell her to do it ... she chose to do it ... its her fault.

I'm thinking about doing it in a letter to make sure I get everyone I want to say across. Thoughts?

My thoughts?

She is playing you. Because she can.

She and MM are still in A.

Don't agonize on what to write in that letter,

she does NOT CARE. Expect deception, lies and manipulation and damage control.

Do a hard 180. Protect yourself.

Do not give or set ultimatums or boundaries unless you are willing to enforce them

Some of us made many mistakes in those early days following D Day. I can say for myself, I wish I would have packed my shit after finding out and gone NC for at least a few days in order to take control of the situation. Like you, I have kids, so that made it more difficult, but could have been accomplished somehow. Where there is a will, there is a way. As long as you are there at home willing to "work it out" while she plays with your emotions and thinks she gets to decide what happens, you will be stuck in this limbo forever, while she continues the A. Please do yourself a favor and follow the 180 like people on here recommend. It's tough, trust me, I know. I still have to act tougher than I am and I'm four months out of D Day.

A little confused. 180 says don't talk about it unless your cheating spouse wants to. But I am hearing from most of you is take control now and make her decide R or D.

We are living in the same house and are cordial to each other but she seems even more distant after d-day. I set a boundary if she sees him again it is over.

This is from your first post, have you been able to monitor and confirm that she is not in any type of contact with him.

As for the 180, I never liked that part, the betrayed spouse needs to talk about it a lot. Just like anyone that has been through any type of disaster, they have to talk about it.

You cannot process what the hell happened to you, unless you are able to talk about it and understand.

As for the 180, be indifferent to her excuses and never ever let her drag you into the blame game, the blame shifting or the affair was all because you never took out the trash type of arguments.

I am tracking her phone but has to communicate with him at work on occasions. I am fairly confident they have had no physical contact since day.

A little confused. 180 says don't talk about it unless your cheating spouse wants to.

Because if you are constantly wanting to initiate the conversation of reconciliation with her it reinforces the notion that SHE is the prize instead of you. You want the marriage more than her. The leverage and power of the relationship shifts to her. Thus, if you want to stay in the marriage with her it will be on HER terms, and that usually means you fulfilling her domestic and logistical needs with regards to a comfy home and taking care of kids while she maintains a separate romantic partner with the OM, and the next one, and the next...

But I am hearing from most of you is take control now and make her decide R or D.

Your requirements are simple: END THE AFFAIR, no more contact with the OM, full transparency from her, full truth of the affair, full commitment to reconciliation, etc. Anything less than this from her is just her negotiating how much consequences she has to suffer and how much cake eating she can get away with.

You sit with her and give her that letter of your requirements. After she reads it you ask her if she is committed to reconciliation or not. If she is, then she acts (not just promises) on those requirements immediately and THEN communication becomes very important. If not, then YOU act to remove her from her role as your wife immediately, starting with her moving out of the marital bedroom to sleep somewhere else (couch, basement, garage, car, whatever). If during the process of demoting her from her "wife" role she wants to engage conversation regarding the affair and blaming you for it then you shut that shit down pronto - "I'm sorry you feel that way and I do not want to discuss that with you." because that is abuse. HOWEVER, if she begins to take more ownership of it and tells you "I realize we have had issues in the marriage and perhaps my affair may not have been the best way to address it..." then you have something worth exploring with extended conversation. But the second it becomes a blame shift attempt you shut-it-down.

Very often (to the point I would consider it as always) when the wayward wants "time and space" or are "confused" or claim to "not know what they want", what they are really saying is that they want the affair to continue as long as they want AND you to not do anything about it and just accept it. Don't accept it by going 180 and detach from her and her infidelity.

DBL post

[This message edited by Jduff at 11:30 AM, November 17th (Thursday)]

How do you base on "fairly confident"?

Are you going to be OK with her working with this guy from now on?

Not really. Her office is moving an hour away at the end of December. That's my only real solice at this point.

Also, are there any legal ramifications for me outing the affair to HR or the other spouses wife? Only proof is her word of who it was and the hotels statements I know about?

Goodguy,

The advice so far… all good.

I want to suggest something different. It’s not significantly different, more like another slant on what has been suggested you do.

The advice so far has been to tell her to decide whether to reconcile or divorce.

Why place all that power in her hands?

Why don’t YOU decide what you want?

Why don’t you decide what you are willing to tolerate and then act?

Look – If you tell her she needs to decide between R and D and she does neither (and frankly, that’s the standard response) then what? How will you respond?

I sense that you don’t like the look of hate she gives you every now and then.

I think you don’t like her working around OM.

I know you have your doubts that she’s really committed to the marriage.

So I suggest you do what YOU want…

But base what you want on the real options you have. Base your choice on reality. I guess if you had some wishes you would want the affair never to have happened. You would wish your wife loved you and showed it daily. But you have neither. Of the options you have… which is the one you want?

Which is the one you can control?

You can want to reconcile till the cows come home but if your wife isn’t on board… It won’t work. SHE needs to want it too.

Frankly IMHO your options are rather limited: Accept the affair and remaining in infidelity or get out of infidelity.

Of the two which option is better?

If it’s accepting your wife is having an affair – active or not – then don’t read on.

If remaining in infidelity really sucks and isn’t something you plan on accepting…

Then get out of infidelity.

Tell her something along these lines:

Wife. I really want to save this marriage. I think our family and our past deserves that we try our best. To reach that goal I would be willing to do A LOT of work. But I also realize that losing you isn’t the worst outcome of the present problems.

Knowing that you aren’t sure if you want the marriage. Knowing you are having an affair. Knowing that your thoughts are with another man… these are all IMMENSELY WORSE than the thought of losing you.

SHARING YOU IS WORSE!

Therefore, I am telling you that you are totally 100% free to date OM, have sex with OM, have him spend the night, go to dinner, visit his family, take him to the theatre… whatever.

BUT NOT AS MY WIFE.

Until and unless you commit to the marriage totally and unconditionally then I’m simply assuming you have chosen OM over this family. That’s totally your prerogative and you are totally free to make that choice. But I am also totally free to refuse to accept that situation.

I am therefore initiating whatever steps are necessary to formally end our marriage. I am moving out of infidelity. You can join me on this journey but be aware that there are fair conditions that need to be met. Also be aware that once I get momentum in getting out of infidelity then your chances of catching up diminish.

And then you go have a cup of coffee and a bagel. Or watch TV. Or whatever.

If she starts placing blame for the state of the marriage on you then your stock answer is:

“I’m sorry you feel that way. If we were working on the marriage we could address this issue, but since we aren’t there isn’t any need to do so”.

No matter what she says then that is the stock answer.

If she starts talking divorce: “I am too emotionally attached to this marriage to see divorce clearly. I am seeking legal advice to ensure the divorce is fair and in accordance to law”

Then you simply implement the 180 and move on.

Detach.

If she wants the marriage… she will come to you. Otherwise you are way better off knowing the reality you are being offered and acting accordingly.

You might want to consider a voice activated

Recorder.

[This message edited by Marc878 at 1:57 PM, November 17th (Thursday)]

The number one sign of cheating is hiding/guarding the phone. They'll take it with them in the bathroom, in the shower, under their pillow when they sleep. Like it is an appendage attached to their hands.

The number two sign if cheating is behavior - distant, cold, unemotional, yet everything you say or do seems to annoy her. The way you talk,walk, sit, stand, eat, drink, breathe - all annoys her.

Once she knows you are onto her, it will be fairly easy to change her phone habits, but the coldness and annoyance are difficult to fake for very long.

She does guard her phone but to lesser her extent after dday. Probably knows now to delate the messages. The coldness in her is displayed by more of a lack of talking and interaction with me.

Everyone here is so helpful.

I do have another question....

I secured all our savings accounts with new passwords but how do I know if she is taking out new credit cards or equity lines of credit on our home. Thats a concern of mine. I have no proof she is doing it but if a person can cheat she is capable of anything I guess.

Listen friend, you are getting great advice here. We all know too well what you are going through. We have come out the otherside and our our advice is to help you get out of infedlity, and save your self respect.

If you have any notion that your wife is diferent, that your relationship is diferent, you need to read some of the longer post in this forum. It will become clear to you that your WW is just like any other, they behave the same way, its remarkable. We call it the cheater script and you are getting a front row seat. We are here to support you, keep posting and reading.

You hqve to get your head wrapped around that your marriage as you knew it is dead. The women you knew is gone. Full stop. Imagine any other time in your marriage where one of you cohld do this and it be ok? She does not respect you. How could she do these things if she did? You think about that. What kind of person lies, cheats, decieves, all while coming home all smiles for a hug and kiss? Is this someone who respects you? Would you tolerate that behaviour in any other aspect of your life? Do not lose your self-respect as a man in this.

You need to take control here friend, you are in the drivers seat. I know the look of disdain you are speaking about, its disgusting. Maybe you have seen the blank stare reptile eyes too when you challange her shitty rationale. Save your breath. Whats coming next friend is this is all your fault. Thats right, her disgusting choice (and its that basic she chose) is all because you did or didnt do some bullshit. Dont buy into this for one moment.No ones marriage is perfect, they all have isses and you both own 50percent of that. But the betrayal of her husband, children, and herself? Thats on her full fucking stop.

You have gotten great advice.Do you want to be plan B in your own fucking marriage? Lock everything down, hou must tell OM wife she deserves to know of course. Dont be a party to the betrayal.

You are doing alright, but this is going to hurt. You are only getting started on this path, and its good that you found us. Any councilor who is telling you to dit in limbo hell untl she figures it out should be fired. Trust your gut!!!

If you want proof and can get her phone or sync it to a PC you can do a deleted text recovery using Fonelab, etc.