SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Sastrugi If that is the case...I am a lost case. I guess I am not only broken but stupid as well. Sorry but I don't get it.

Homealone, you are 100% correct that the the loss of trust is at the heart of why repairing infidelity is so difficult. But I hope you also understand that the pain of emasculation and humiliation that your husband feels is directly associated with you having another man in your vagina. I don't know any other way to say it than that. Yes he is torn by the betrayal of trust and all that goes with it, but that is not why he feels emasculated. If you broke his trust in a terrible way with your financial decisions, be would be left with the pain of how to trust you again, but he would not be tormented with emasculation.

Perhaps I only interpreted your previous post wrong and you do see how it is the sex you had with another man that is driving his pain of feeling emasculated.

[This message edited by DIFM at 9:20 AM, December 14th (Wednesday)]

DIFM Sorry I agree with you,What I meant is that what is hurting my husband about me having sex with other man is not that now I am dirty or tainted. Not that OM vilified my body because he used.

what he is hurting from is the idea of how he compares with the OM, he feels emasculated, he feels that I went to the OM because he could not satisfy me and that makes him lesser of a man that the OM.

I have made him insecure when he thought that he was a capable and generous lover. I destroyed that confidence and I need to find a way to repair it.

I wish I could undo what I have done, but I can't.

[This message edited by homealone123 at 9:25 AM, December 14th (Wednesday)]

Sometimes the things we challenge in what others point out about our behaviors are the very things we need to challenge within ourselves. You are getting defensive be cause you think you are being judged, when actually you are being helped. It is painful looking at how cruel our behaviors were/are. Cheating on your spouse for 22 months is cruel, selfish, deceptive, manipulative, emasculating, abusive, dishonest and disgusting. And I have been there. And I have accepted that I was all those things and more. I am remorseful about it and if anyone tells how cruel I was I would agree with them and not defend my actions. We may not know you personally, but we do know infidelity and we know how warped our character and value became because of it.

It won't help to be defensive..just listen to what people are saying. If it applies to you then it would be wise to take note of it. If it doesn't apply then ignore it. I do agree that a lot of what Zug says is spot on.

[This message edited by floridaredman at 9:30 AM, December 14th (Wednesday)]

I appears to me that your DDay was less than 2 weeks ago. I didn't even know what I was doing for the first few months. Marriage was precious and sacred to me. It was save the marriage, save the marriage. What can I do to save the marriage?

The things your husband is focuing on now can be quite different in a very short time. The mind, under trauma, can only process so much and, to protect itself, shuts out some things because they would fry the brain circuitry. The mind can only deal with so much at a time. In time, those things that were tucked away will surface. It could be that right now the sex is just to painful to acknowledge for your husband so he focuses on something else.

I have no idea what I was thinking for the first few weeks. No sleep, no food (meal replacement drinks my WW brought to me), puking, stumbling, crying uncontrollably, fetal position. As time passed, though, things that were revealed during DDay and shortly after resurfaced and became important. What your BH believes is not an issue now may become a major issue later.

If you haven't read it yet, you will if you stick around that healing takes 2 to 5 years. That's 2 to 5 after being out of infidelity which includes a wayward mindset, remorse or separation. It's a marathon.

I stated above that IMO a BS shouldn't go to MC right away. That's the first inclination for many or most BSs. Fix the marriage. It very often causes more damage to the BS unless the MC is exceptional. MC is to heal the marrige, make the marriage stronger. First the individuals in the marriage need to work on themselves.

Don't be surprized if the things your husband feels are important to him change substantially and often. He is still in a firefight and doesn't know where the danger is. He's just trying to survive at this point.

HA123, for what its worth, I think you are doing pretty good for only being a couple weeks out. At this point in time, many WWs are still in the fog, thinking about OM, blaming the husband and marriage, and criticizing the BH for being 'angry'.

So yeah, maybe there is disagreement between posters, bit I just wanted to give you a big picture view that sees you on the right track overall. So don't get discouraged. Keep on working hard.

homealone,

It sounds like you are off to a very good start. Lots of great advise here, especially from Owl and Zugs. You taking 100% of the blame for the affair was key from the get go. Contrats on taking that burden from your BH. The fact that my WW blamed me relentlessly for the first year damaged me profoundly. You have avoided that pitfall, thank God.

There is some people here that talks about me like if I have become tainted (of lesser value) because I had sex with another man, like if my intrinsic value would be measured for who enters in my vagina.

We are talking about adultery here.

What is the definition of adulterated?

a·dul·ter·ate

/əˈdəltəˌrāt/

verb

past tense: adulterated; past participle: adulterated

render (something) poorer in quality by adding another substance, typically an inferior one.

"the meat was ground fine and adulterated with potato flour"

synonyms: make impure, degrade, debase, spoil, taint, contaminate; doctor, tamper with, dilute, water down, weaken; bastardize, corrupt; informal: cut, spike, lace, dope

"some of the drinks had been adulterated with tranquilizers"

antonyms: purify

So your husband is feeling exquisite pain and loss. Why? It is a unique experience in the human condition. I dare to say only the loss of a child would be worse.

He views his body was violated and his trust was violated. More than that, you were like a betrayer to him. You, his one and only, were more precious to him than jewels.

The wise writer Solomon tells us a virtuous woman: “For her worth is far above rubies. The heart of her husband safely trusts her.” (Pro.3: 10-11)

How will your husband view the lowlife OM?

Solomon later adds about an adulterous man: “Wounds and dishonor he will get, and his reproach will not be wiped away.” Pro.6: 33

The forgiveness your husband must muster will come at an extreme price to his self. I cannot, in words, describe how painful it has been for me.

Solomon told us that by the adulterous woman, “one is reduced to a loaf of bread” (Pro.6: 26). A piece of bread!

You have pillaged his self and handed it over to the OM. You have adulterated yourself. He is taking stock of his life, and finds you have conspired to plunder his life, and there is no way you or the OM can give back to him that which was taken. You can only start building something new.

I don't tell you this so you will despair. I tell you this so you may find some empathy for your husband. Remorse is the cornerstone of reconciliation. Everything is built upon it. You are very early on in you budding reconciliation, but that is when you lay the cornerstone. Please listen to the words of those who are one or two years down the line from where your husband is now. Please listen carefully!

For if you do, you can save your marriage. It can be done through tremendous work and tremendous suffering. Understanding the depth and source of his pain is key.

Good luck HA, I wish the best for you and your husband.

Redhorse Thank you! I am a person and some compassion and empathy also helps.

I don't think I am any better than anyone, I have hurt my husband to levels I seem not to be able to understand if you read all the posters here I am glad at least I am clear enough to not hurting him blaming him for my affair or having him to listen how much I love the OM.

I don't know if that is much of a relief for him. I have seen my husband suffering, I know my husband, he has never show his pain and therefore is so shocking and painful to see him suffering.

I am not asking for sympathy but I think it is the tone what makes the music and the tone of some posters is hurting.

I apologize if I am defensive floridaredman but I am very lonely. I have not talked about my infidelity with any of my friends because I know my husband would not appreciate it and I am facing this all by myself, I know I have created this mess but I am suffering from it too and I can't get the beating here too.

I am only asking to use an educated tone when you bring a point.

You can say for example: What you did to your husband was not loving (that is a reality), but saying that I never loved my husband is not a truth and is hurting. Is cruel.

Can someone point me one only advise in the post from Zug? An advise is a guide to action. I only see judgment in his post.

[This message edited by homealone123 at 10:11 AM, December 14th (Wednesday)]

Ha123, all my more recent advice to you is encouraging you to empathize, to put yourself in other's shoes, to entertain other perspectives. That by definition does not presuppose what conclusion you draw. I am not invested at all in you agreeing with me or anyone else. It's a change of attitude, a change of the spirit, I have been trying to model for you, not a set of conclusions.

I try Owl, I try. I try to think how I would feel if I would be in my husband shoes but I am afraid that my judgment of that situation is tainted with the situation where I am. I probably would find it less horrible because is something that i have done.

You have said that I lack empathy and I have never disagree with you on that. I am actually certain that even when I thought I had that empathy probably I don't have it. I suffer because he suffers but I don't know is it from the understanding of his feelings? I can't say it is... is painfully obvious that I don't get it if I look to all the posters in here.

Empathy is an exercise that I need to profoundly concentrate. I know I love my husband (yes, I know we had this discussion before, please agree with me on this because it is the core of my existence and I can't let go of that truth). Now, how did I get to stop caring how someone I love some much would feel from my actions? That is something I need to find out.

You are very correct. You aren't in your husband's shoes and, even though you feel horrible and suffer from what you've done, you can't compare it to his. You consciously made the choice and you made the choice for him. I wouldn't wish anyone to walk in my shoes - not even the AP.

You say you love your husband. And you probably think you do. It would be hard to reconcile love to the core of your existance with going to OM frequently for sex. I'm just throwing out a possibility that your love for your husband was conditional. You were very resentful and it was his fault. Conditional love. At any rate, IMO, you loved yourself more and you justified what you were doing because of your resentment. If he doesn't love you right and stole your youth from you you are justified to even that out. Something to think about.

I am not a thing, I am not an object that someone possess that can lose value with the use.

But you were.... To your AP, and most importantly to yourself.

Find out WHY(s) you allowed this...

// Added

You can change but you need to know and own what you did and what caused it. Don't discount or deny a bad character flaw because you don't want the "label". Look at your actions those are what you truly are and need to build or cut out of the new you going forward... Be the best version of yourself and let the actions show it.

[This message edited by sneaker at 10:48 AM, December 14th (Wednesday)]

Hey, girl, look at you. Introspection. Awareness of a deficit. Dawning awareness that some things you beleive, you beleive more to salvage your sense of self, than because they are well supported by the evidence in your actions.

This is good. Hurts like nothing else but it is the road to healing.

Here's a thought for you. Hating our bad choices is easy, because we kind of separate ourselves from them. Yeah, that was an awful thing for someone to do, and I sure won't do that again, but it's not really ME, you know?

Real change comes when we are sick not only of the choices, but of ourselves. When we are sick unto dispair of being who we are. Not because of what we did-- but because of who we are. Not because of the choices we made, but because we are a person who has in him or her the motivation to make those choices. It is a very terrifying place when you get there, but also full of hope. Because all the defensiveness goes away, all the hard work of handling the cognitive dissonance of knowing (as you really always knew, even if you found it too terrifying to look at) that you were not who you represent yourself to be, is over. It's such a relief.

[This message edited by Owl6118 at 10:48 AM, December 14th (Wednesday)]

The people here are trying to get you on the right track otherwise abit down the road either you will cheat again or your husband will divorce you . I hope you are prepared for years of work and not been trusted to try save this relationship . I do hope you have had stds tests done,if not get some done.

I am actually certain that even when I thought I had that empathy probably I don't have it. I suffer because he suffers but I don't know is it from the understanding of his feelings? I can't say it is... is painfully obvious that I don't get it if I look to all the posters in here.

Don't feel bad that you can't see it or feel it yet. It took my wife more than a year to start to get it, so you are off to a very good start!

I don't see how any wayward spouse can possibly empathize completely. I never would have believed the pain if I hadn't been through it myself. I admit that I would have only felt the tip of the iceberg had I done it to her.

So don't feel like you are failing in the lack of empathy department. You seem to be doing better than most! The fact you are responding still is a very good sign. Count your blessings. Start designing and building the new you.

What are your core values? What are your principals by which you live? When I was a child I was asked, what do you want to be? I responded with, "I want to be happy!" But later I learned that life wasn't about chasing the "happy". Is that what you were looking for? The ever elusive "happy"? What defines you and your interactions with others? Before the affair, what was it within you that discounted his honor, his steadfastness, his boring and bland love and commitment? Why did you not cherish those things then, but cherish them now?

These are the questions you need to ask yourself as you dig into your "whys". But what the others are saying is that you first must be 100% honest with yourself (as best one can).

Because what I want from my wife is "who, what, when, and where" was done (with the affair), "why" it was done (what was broken inside you to go outside your marriage) and "how". "How" is to biggie because "how" goes to the character issue. I'm not talking about how you communicated or how you had sex. It is how did you allow your internal compass that defines what is right and wrong to you get so faulty or so ignored. Because when it gets down to repairing that necessary trust, which I am starting to have for my wife, the "why" and especially the "how" is crucial.

What will you define as your core values and core character? That will be your inner compass. After that you have discipline to use your compass and awareness of your self and your feelings so you no longer send out "vibes" that you are interested and available. And, when you receive invitations from others, you will recoil in disgust instead of a inwardly smiling.

You may be sorry now because you are losing your husband and your marriage. What was it about your character and discipline that didn't feel a recoil at the thought of betrayal? Your husband will need to know that your compass and discipline are well functioning, that your character is steadfast, before he will trust you again.

Sorry about the rambling. It helps to clarify my thoughts in my own reconciliation....

I think there is a language/cultural barrier that she is having dificulty with the replies to her posts. Because she seams to understand.

I know that I have said this before but I am so confused... I am confused to the point that I doubt myself the whole time. My realities, my motivations, who am I?

I hate myself Owl, I despite myself for being that person, not today, not yesterday, I have hated myself for a year? Maybe since the beginning and every day a bit more?

I hate myself so much that when someone like Zug put a mirror infront of me and let me see myself for what I am I hated him...I hated him because he didn't allow me to keep closing the eyes to what I am. I am sorry Zug, I don't know if you will read this anymore but I am really sorry... you didn't deserve my answer.

I am confused because I love my husband, or I think that I loved him, but maybe that love is the end weapon I used to backstab him. I could go to the OM and has sex with him because ...eh... I still loved my husband. My love didn't work to defend him but instead I used that "love" to hurt him. I guess when someone is as broken as I am love stops having the same meaning that it has for everyone else.

I am in a corner of shadows, I feel small and unlovable. I have seen my sons cry again today and every one of their tears burns my soul. What a mother do that to their sons? What a wife do that to her husband?

I am thinking about giving up and leaving. I don't know if my family deserves to have someone like me poisoning every second of their life reminding them what it could have been.

[This message edited by homealone123 at 2:15 PM, December 14th (Wednesday)]

I don't think you should leave, run away. I think that would be further betrayal and abandonment. It's part of the mindset from before - escapism, not facing up to things.

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that very possibly you've had a breakthrough, an epiphany.

I can't say that everything will work out for you. It may not. But it won't for sure if you give up. Courage isn't about having no fear. It's about continuing on in the face of fear. Please continue on.

I shouldn't speak for Zug. He can speak very well for himself. Zug has had lots of push back before you. He continues because, IMO, he cares and he wants the best result than can be had. He has lived of what he speaks. He tries to get people to hold up the mirror and see themselves and to do it faster than he did. I suspect he would be pleased that he helped you move forward.

Hello, homealone123!

Being a cheater really sucks...doesn't it?

I got caught in a 6 1/2 year LTA affair with a neighbor's wife over 31 years ago. So, I know how you feel, just as the other Wayward posters here do. Don't try to rationalize or minimize what you did i.e. "it was only sex". And, don't be so defensive. Own your shit.

Experienced, veteran posters like Zugzwang and others bluntly say things you may not like or want to hear, but please listen and think about what they say, whether you agree or not. This Wayward Side group does not have all of the answers for you...but, it is the best and most valuable free advice you will ever get anywhere.

It took me years to get my marriage back on track and reconciled. You are only a couple of weeks into this shit storm you caused so be prepared for a lot of hard work and emotional stress. You can do it. You have to be completely remorseful and dedicate yourself 100% to fix yourself to have any chance of saving your family and marriage.

Stay strong, keep posting and keep listening.

[This message edited by Klaatu at 5:08 PM, December 14th (Wednesday)]

If you take advice and experience as arrogance, then I can well understand your issues with humility. I certainly don't know it all or claim to. However, you are not the first newbie to make that point about me. You probably will not be the last. My viewpoints don't come from some textbook dictionary of "know-it-all" information. I made my share of mistakes for the first two years. I did it all wrong. But, I learned from here and the books. I found my way and owned it. 4+ yerars out and reconciled, recovered, and changed. I just see patterns here and similarities for the 4yrs I have been reading here. Doing my "pay it forward" the same way others did for me. By pointing out things in the "owning it" process. Things that I as a newbie once myself and other newbies fail to see through their fears. Sprinkle on years of experience with a manipulative mother that wallowed in entitlement and self pity while sitting behind closed doors like a petulant child when faced with reality and not getting her way..I see things. I don't hand out sympathy or compassion very often, IMO that leads to continuing ego kibbles and wayward behavior. If what I point out doesn't work because of the way I deliver it, by all means ignore it. If I delivered well or communicated well, then I probably would never have found myself here to begin with.

I will say one thing before I bow out. Your husband is in a phase where he is in some sense playing the pick me dance. Figuring out where he went wrong (blameshifting upon himself) and what the OM has that he doesn't. One day that will change and he will stop focusing on

how he compares with the OM, he feels emasculated, he feels that I went to the OM because he could not satisfy me and that makes him lesser of a man that the OM.

I have made him insecure when he thought that he was a capable and generous lover. I destroyed that confidence and I need to find a way to repair it.

He will stop focusing on how he didn't do enough for you and start focusing on the fact that no matter how little or how much he did-you chose to cheat. That none of this is about him but only about you. You two are at a point where the focus is how he came up short. He just might get angry and see the truth of the matter. Rug sweeping isn't going to work. Hopefully your IC and the MC will keep you from doing that. Hopefully they will get you to stop focusing so much on him and saving the marriage and get you to focus on you and your whys instead. Be prepared on how to get your defensiveness in control so you don't take it out on him and push him away when he reaches that phase.