SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You sound very lucky that your husband wants to try working it out. I'm not saying you don't seem like a good candidate for R but based on his behaviour prior to this I think a lot of us thought he was already preparing for D.

I want to point out a few things I felt my WS did wrong when we were trying to R that I feel ultimately led to us breaking up:

1 - She expected MC to do all the work. As far as I can make out she didn't even google what to do You've already found this place so that puts you a few steps ahead. This isn't the end of your journey though, there are plenty of books that are frequently recommended (How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair is probably the best one to start with).

2 - She didn't work on herself. She seemed to have the impression that all the work she had to do was get over her AP, whilst I had to get myself over the fact she had an A. She didn't and still hasn't been to IC, she came up with a lot of armchair psychology reasons for her A but all put the blame on me in one way or other. Basically what I'm saying is show your husband you're working on you and put yourself in IC.

3 - She wanted to get our relationship back to "normal", and I often felt she was rushing me to do the same. She didn't seem to appreciate that our relationship going forward was forever altered, she'd try and hold hands in public which made me uncomfortable, she'd buy me gifts which felt tainted with guilt, she'd still kiss me goodbye in a morning which I wasn't ready for - what I'm getting at here is you need to go at your husband's pace, and ask him how he feels about acts of intimacy and expressions of affection. It sounds like your husband is already drawing a line in the sand on this but I wanted to help illustrate where this comes from.

Good luck to you. I still feel awful for my WS and truly believe if she could take it back she would, but I can't let it go (partly why I'm here now). Your husband sounds similar to me in many ways, so for him to come to you is a blessing, but now the real work for both of you truly starts.

I'm a BH. This is my opinion but is often pointed out on SI. IMO, it's too early for MC. MC is all about saving the marriage. In too many cases MC shifts "blame" for marital problems to the BS and, thus, creates justification for the WS. It can greatly harm the BS who is already fragile and searching for "why". I think it often causes the supression of the adultery issues that erupt much more vigorously later. My suggestion is IC for both, first. Especially for the WS but I think the BS needs help with handling the trauma. In many cases PTSD (or the new PISD descriptor) is evident in the BS.

I'm a BH whose WW was a one and only for me. I was 25 when my WW and I started dating. I managed with great difficulty to hold onto my virginity during the "free love" sexual revolution. I held that very sacred. A very precious thing. I think (but I'm biased because of my situation) that makes it an even more traumatic situation to overcome.

At any rate, my reason for adding to this thread is to caution about MC too early in the process. IMO, it could be counter productive for your husband.

I read your thread on the other site, and to be honest, I don’t believe they were all that harsh to you. Most of it, I believe, was you being defensive. Dday just happened and you are floundering, barely holding your head above the water. I get that, really I do. So please don’t think anything I say is to berate you.

I am a BS who needed every single disgusting detail. When my husband’s timeline was done, it was 30 pages and over 30k words. Yes, I wanted that much detail. I don’t care how much the truth hurt, I needed to hear it. Nothing but the truth, no matter what.

Many posters, both here and the other site, are trying to explain to you that the feelings you have right now, the way you see things right now – it isn’t reality. How you view things right now, more than likely, will change over time. You said several times how fantastic the sex was. Really? Was it really that great? Why? Six months from now, a year from now, it may not have been as fantastic as you thought it was.

With that said, I truly hope that your husband does not ask you for any details right now. You absolutely, have to tell the truth. But at this point, your truth (which isn’t necessarily reality) would absolutely destroy him.

Good luck.

Is normal to have sex so early after dday? Is normal that after sex he cried? I am so confused.

Personally, I don't believe there is any kind of "normal" when it comes to this.

After discovering my XWW' s adultery, I would rather have eaten my own vomit than have sex with that woman.

I never touched her again in any way, shape, or form since that day.

Crying after sex? No, this is not normal at all.

To me, sex with my then wife was sacred - it was the ultimate human bond and connection.

We were two being as one, and from that came our children and our legacy.

Mind you, it wasn't just about procreation, it was for fun, pleasure, romance, being dirty, and being sensual.

But, it was with her, my life companion - at least I thought at the time.

I imagine your husband probably had somewhat similar feelings about sex with you.

It was probably more intensely sacred to him because you were his only and he was your only - committed as a family for life.

I imagine he probably felt, for the first time, that the sacred feeling of sex with his life partner is gone.

It was an empty experience for him - and that is absolutely devastating.

He realizes that what he valued and cherished so much was ultimately discarded for ..........the gym instructor.

He knows that the gym instructor does not give a shit about him, his children, his family, his marriage, the impact, the pain, the destruction, and he knows the gym instructor really doesn't give a shit about what he held most sacred - you.

That, is a pain that would drive any man or woman to tears - even after sex.

What you saw after sex still probably did not express he pain and torment this man has been feeling.

And the deepest and sharpest pain that he is feeling is not for himself, nor for you, nor for the marriage...

It is for his children.

And he is beside himself, in disbelief, in devastation, trying to reconcile in his mind, that you did not think about the effect this could have on just the children alone even before making the conscious decision to do so the first time - and then continuing for almost two more years.

I know how he feels.

I hope first out of all this that your husband and your children find peace and stability - divorce or not.

I hope you can honestly reconcile within yourself why you would betray sacred trust and really become someone better than this.

I hope, divorce or not, you will make the honest and very difficult effort to make things right, or as best as they can be.

[This message edited by keptmyword at 10:40 AM, December 13th (Tuesday)]

To be honest there is no normal anymore - its just life now.

I am the BH and WW has said the right things and has done all the right things in the home etc. But deep down in my heart I am broken and I don't think it will ever be fixed.

When you stand up at that alter you take those vows seriously and for better or worse that is suppose to be your partner, best friend and most important person in your life.

When you boil it down to its essence there is never a reason to cheat - if your not happy, fell out of love whatever excuse you want to use - say something. You loved your spouse at one point at least give that person the respect and dignity they deserve.

I can never understand how the thoughts of children and a home a life never enters into the equation.

I hope your husband is more evolved then me because I still am angry over it and its been a year. I know in my heart I will never love her the same and all I do now is for my children. My children are my world and I sacrifice my happiness and life so that they are taken care of.

I wish you the best - I truly do and I hope you both can make peace with it. Maybe there is hope for me but my journey on the road has just begun.

Is normal to have sex so early after dday? Is normal that after sex he cried? I am so confused.

I'm wondering if these questions tie into your perception of sex. Specifically "just sex". Some people do view sex as nothing more than a handshake.

What is your perception of sex with your BH? Is sex with your BH "just sex" too? In other words nothing more than a physical transaction?

I could be wrong but I have a feeling this is playing into your confusion if it's "just sex".

yop

You have mentioned several times that you are confused. He doesn't know what to do. Better get used to this. Most BS don't know what they want or what to do for a long time. Read up on what to expect. The phases of grieving. PTSD. He is most likely in shock. What do you do? Work on you and stop focusing on the marriage. Nothing can be done with that till he begins to get out of shock and heals and YOU begin to own it and change. BE patient. One day he will want the marriage. One day he will not. Rollercoaster ride that can last up to 5years so buckle up and get used to feeling a whole new level of out of control. Work on that humility you said you have issues with. Because you are going to need to find levels of humility you never even knew existed.

Sex after affair happens a lot. His reaction happens a lot. 17 times will seem like it was non-stop. Get a jar with jelly beans, something likr that, sonething chewy. Take one, eat it, chew, and say "" One.". Then take another one, chew, and say, "Two." Keep it up until you breach "Seventeen." Then see if you think 17 times is a lot - especially when he think the number it should be is "Zero."

That is called "minimizing.". It wasn't nonstop. It was ONLY seventeen times.

Get a jar with jelly beans, something likr that, sonething chewy. Take one, eat it, chew, and say "" One.". Then take another one, chew, and say, "Two." Keep it up until you breach "Seventeen." Then see if you think 17 times is a lot - especially when he think the number it should be is "Zero."

And don't get those yummy sugary, fruit flavored jelly beans. Get the ones that are vomit flavored to really get the point across (from your husband's perspective). If there was ever a point to eating vomit flavored jellybeans, it might be on this occasion.

The torture that your husband is going through is terrible, and we readers can sense it just from reading your posts. I can't imagine what he is actually going through. Add to the raw pain:

1> Sex with you most likely triggers him, which explains why he broke down after sex

2> You were each other's only lovers, and that special bond is destroyed forever

3> Due to your culture, your husband will not be able to expose your affair to anyone other than your parents, which means he will silently continue to suffer.

I don't see a happy ending to your story at all, no matter how desperately you (and him) may want one - . I'm sorry.

I am very happy I am married to my husband when I read all the posts from many of the men here. My husband has been firm but compassionate through the whole process with me, we went to MC yesterday and it was painful, really painful for both of us to face the hole we were getting in. There was some blame shifting, but not from me, my husband was convinced that he had to do something wrong and therefore I cheated, it took all my convincing to explain him that there was nothing he did that made me go to the AP, it was my selfishness, my need of experience excitement and ultimately a need of external validation that speaks mountains about my character.

He told me that he is angry but mostly disappointed because he would have trusted me with anything and he doesn't think he will be ever able to trust in the same way. We didn't talk much about the sexual part, probably because he is not ready to talk about it so we didn't but I made clear that the number of times I slept with OM was 17.

I agree that 17 times eating shit like some on here like to put it is a lot specially if you compare it to zero that should be the right amount, but I still think that is much easier to swallow that 300 or 600 or what ever number my husband had in his mind till I clarified it.

There is some people here that talks about me like if I have become tainted (of lesser value) because I had sex with another man, like if my intrinsic value would be measured for who enters in my vagina.

I am not a thing, I am not an object that someone possess that can lose value with the use.

It is my soul what is broken, it is my betrayal and behavior what needs to be judged not my value.

My husband and I didn't chose to be each other only lover, it happened to us, there were many conditionals that you don't understand.

The only thing that my husband and I chose to do was to have sex as teeners, once I got pregnant we didn't have much more choice anymore, we got married because we were told to do so (don't get me wrong, I loved my husband and he loved me with the passion that only two teeners can love) but what did we know about real love?

We could not abort because in Spain wasn't even legal to abort back then but in our family that was never going to be an option.

We were lucky and we built a strong relationship and love (the real love, not the butterflies).

We never put any value on being each others only one because it was not something that we searched for, we didn't wait till the wedding because we thought it was something special nor are we religious and give virginity any special importance, what matters is that we committed to be each other unique lovers when we married and I broke that vow. My husband fortunately sees this in the same way I do. He doesn't care about anything but about the breach in the commitment we had for each other. He doesn't moan for the loss of the special but for the loss of the trust and for the fact that now he feels emasculated for the comparison with the OM. He told me that I have made him feel a lesser man, inadequate and insecure and that when he made love to me last night the only thing he could think after is if I was enjoying it for real or if I was thinking and comparing him with the OM.

I need to find a way to help him with that, but that is the catch, he will never believe me if I would tell him that I do enjoy the sex with him anymore because he doesn't trust me, so how can I convince him?

Anyway, overall it was a positive thing that we talked and he could get out of his chest how he was feeling. I know I have a long way infront of me and that there will be many difficult moments but at the moment what I saw is that he is in for reconciling and I feel blessed with this gift that I know I don't deserve.

He doesn't care about anything but about the breach in the commitment we had for each other.

It sounds like you are on the best path you can be for now. I wish you nothing but the best in a reconciliation.

You will eventually come to terms with the reality that he cares very deeply that another man entered your vagina, in addition to the breach of trust. When you said that he is in pain because he feels emasculated, that pain and that emasculation is all about another man entering your vagina. It is very real and very deep and both separate and connected to the pain from the loss of trust.

Yes, you are more than just a vagina and your worth is not measured by who has been inside you. However, that really has little to do with the deep torment that your husband feels about someone else being inside you and the importance to your healing that you accept that this torment over the "breach of trust" is significantly a torment because that breach included letting another man in your vagina.

He cares very much about the loss of trust and he cares very much about the sex and they are not fully the same thing.

DIFM If I am to believe what he told me during MC (and I don't have any reasons not to believe him). He doesn't care about the sex that I had with the OM and doesn't want to know about it. (at least not for now). He cares about the sex because with it I betray him and I betray "US" (the idea of us together against everything). He cares about the sex from an internal perspective, he is afraid now that he is not adequate for me, that he can not satisfy me and that I am comparing him to the OM.

We had a open heart conversation and he confessed me that he also have had temptations and that he understand me better than I think BUT that he never acted on it and that is what makes the big difference.

HA123

I really appreciated what you had to say.

And...you are right in general in most everything you had to say.

But, humans are complicated. You can completely, rationally agree with something, but have a feeling to the contrary.

So yes, my wife has a worth that is way beyond and has really nothing to do with her vagina. I know this to be 100% true. I know her, her career, how she has raised the kids and helped other people, etc. BUT, in spite of my rational belief, there is a deep, negative feeling about the OM mating with her. That feeling should not exist and should not be important, but it does affect my level of joy.

Just some more insights. Good for you not letting your BH blame himself. You will most likely be forgiven and might also save your marriage.

I am sure there are many men here who wish their wives had your attitude 😊

[This message edited by redhorse at 8:02 AM, December 14th (Wednesday)]

There is some people here that talks about me like if I have become tainted (of lesser value) because I had sex with another man, like if my intrinsic value would be measured for who enters in my vagina.

I am not a thing, I am not an object that someone possess that can lose value with the use.

It is my soul what is broken, it is my betrayal and behavior what needs to be judged not my value.

IMO it is all the same thing. You are missing the point, we aren't pointing out that you are tainted because of the action itself (sleeping around) in the way you are putting it. You are tainted because of your character. Your choices. What you are willing to do to yourself and others to fill wants. To put yourself before others. But not just that you were selfish, but you inflicted harm and cruelty to get what you wanted. You stepped on other people to feed your unhealthy character. I believe all waywards are cruel, heartless monsters (including myself) when we are waywards till we begin to stop inflicting pain on our BS.

Can you still have value? Yes. But it isn't the same as it was. It doesn't change who your character was just because you have value or potential to be more valuable. This wasn't some pod person or a shell that just had sex. This was you- your character or soul or whatever you want to label you. For many BS the character is part of their value. I am not a BS and even I use character as part of a person's value. Bad character, less value. I was a bad character. I believed I was of less value. The reality, I was. To you- you resented your husband because of your self issues and projection. You valued him less. However, I also believe that people can change. So I don't write them off. I embraced and changed it. It is called owning it.

Your problem is you can't face it. Well lets face it. YOu have value issues. Part of the reason why you had an affair. Part of the reason why you can't be humble. Part of needing the validation. So of course you refuse to see you are of less value when your character is bad. Your actions define you. Your actions were cruel, diliberate, and shitty. IMO that makes you all those things. Makes your value less. But maybe you take that to heart and rebel against it. It is too soon for you to see through it to the other side. You are going to hopefully one day see through it. Own who you were or are (if you don't change) and realize that it doesn't define you for the rest of your life as long as you change it. Which is hard for you right now. You had an affair to get value. You are drowning right now. You did something cruel to get value and it backfired and now you are worse off than you started. No one is saying you are useless or hopeless. I am just saying you were a horrible person. Doesn't mean you have to be in the future. Own it. Embrace it. Admit it to yourself and spouse. Feel it. Change it. It really is that simple and hard at the same time. Takes a long time to do and see.

We were lucky and we built a strong relationship and love (the real love, not the butterflies).

Did you really? All while you seethed and resented him for missed opportunities in your life. Come on now. If your love was that strong for him you wouldn't have resented him and cheated. That isn't love. YOu are right about this though. You don't know what love is.

We never put any value on being each others only one because it was not something that we searched for, we didn't wait till the wedding because we thought it was something special nor are we religious and give virginity any special importance, what matters is that we committed to be each other unique lovers when we married and I broke that vow. My husband fortunately sees this in the same way I do. He doesn't care about anything but about the breach in the commitment we had for each other. He doesn't moan for the loss of the special but for the loss of the trust and for the fact that now he feels emasculated for the comparison with the OM. He told me that I have made him feel a lesser man, inadequate and insecure and that when he made love to me last night the only thing he could think after is if I was enjoying it for real or if I was thinking and comparing him with the OM.

Your situation isn't unique. This is the case for me and for most on here. Not sure what you think most of us think. IMO we are not just focusing on the fact of the act and sex itself. We have been focusing on the break of trust and how you put yourself before his welfare and inflicted cruelty to get your wants filled. You were the one just focusing on the act. As it all meant nothing and it was just sex and I will never do it again. Rugsweeping. It was all about a broken or bad or whatever you want to call it character. That needs focus. Focus on it and stop attaching value to it. It will just keep you sidetracked in making real changes. Weigh you down in shame and guilt. Make you defensive. All you will see is the value as big neon signs and not the stuff that needs to change.

Zugzwang You have an arrogant way to bring your points that even when I find myself agreeing with some of them I find it difficult not to challenge you just for the sake of taming your arrogance and cynical approach.

You are condescending when you talk about things, like if your brilliant intellect would allow you to grasp a reality that the rest of us (stupid mortals) could not even dream to grasp.

Your advise would be much better taken and appreciated if it would not come tainted by your own arrogance and condescending attitude.

I think that it has never occurred to you that you may be wrong, that you are only expert on your own betrayal history and that when something affect people, it may be totally different from one to the other... and I don't know when that is actually sad or funny.

But I am going to agree with you on some points, I do believe I am broken and I do agree that character counts as a value measurement. It has nothing to do with the fact that my AP was a Gym instructor or that I was the only lover of my husband, it has to do with the fact that I could do something so cruel to satisfy my wants.

Can I face that? Yes, I have not doubt and I am grateful for every minute my husband takes to try to forget me or to work in our marriage because given my actual value I do not deserve it.

You say I don't know what it is to love someone ... well, you know nothing of me outside of what I have written in this board... you don't know what I have done for my husband or family, it is not only act in life what defines you but the whole and you can believe that or not... that is your problem... but I loved and I love my husband (I was not loving to him or to my kids when I cheated but I never stopped loving him)

Between all the judgment I fail to see your advise, maybe next time you can try to add something that can really help?

Ok, HA123, you are still so certain of so many things. And instead of trying to listen with an open mind to perspectives people offer you from their experience you find it more comfortable to wrap your certainties around you like a blanket and set them straight, tell them how it is, and even judge them harshly-- e.g., as anti-feminist troglodytes.

At the moment it seems you are willing to change some of your specific behaviors but profoundly unwilling to examine, much less let go of, the pride that brought you to justify those behaviors. You have regret, but pride stands between you and remorse.

It saddens me to see you double down on some of the very things in your character that got you here. But we all make our own choices and live with the outcomes of them.

Owl, I really like the way you do give advise, and I do not judge you, but I do not agree with all what you say (do I need to agree with you to be right?).

Why do you think your certainties are better than mine? I have lived my life and I know by fact what experiences and emotions I have lived and experienced.

is it pride to set your own value above of your vagina? Is it pride to ask for advise but not take all advises as certainties? You think my own judgment is wrong because I cheated but my moral compass is not wrong, neither was my judgment, I didn't cheat because I thought it was ok to cheat, I cheated even when I knew it was wrong.

My judgment didn't fail, my character did, and I don't think that I have denied that at anytime.

I have taken many of your advise to the bank because I thought it was helpful (and it definitely has been helpful) but some of it I do not agree and I hope you can go around to accept that I am old enough to make my own choices (the right ones and the wrong ones).

Hl123,

One day you may actually understand what zug is saying. His was a spot on post.

Until you understand the point zug was making, you will not be on the road to true recovery. I only see humility in zugs post, from one who has been there and done that.

Sastrugi If that is the case...I am a lost case. I guess I am not only broken but stupid as well. Sorry but I don't get it.