SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Here goes. Not sure what I'm looking for here. I'm just so sad today. My affair and the access I gave AP to BS continues to cause pain to BS. He may never fully recover. He may never be able to reframe. We may just go on forever reliving the shame and humiliation without a way to process and move on.

The words "I love you, BS" still carry pain because I said them often during the affair. I'm not the person I was, but my affirmation of love still carries the taste of the poison I was feeding him back then.

That AP goes unpunished, that he "got away with it", still causes BS pain. He feels he lost his honor and has no way short of murder or maiming to get it back.

The personal qualities he so valued as part of himself before D-day...patience, kindness, generosity and giving people the benefit of the doubt, they failed him during the affair because he favored them over his gut which was telling him that AP was an enemy (rather than the "friend" I kept assuring him he was) and that my relationship with AP was toxic to me and our marriage.

For a long time I clung to the timeline of healing...2-5 years...2-5 years...then 5 came, then 6, now it's almost 7. And he still hurts. We still can't call ourselves reconciled. He cannot ever see himself reconciling with himself and the choices he made to not act on his impulse to make AP pay.

Does there come a point when you just have to accept that things are as good as they are going to get? I feel so selfish even bitching about this, like I took a wonderful and exquisite thing and stomped all over it, broke it irretreivably and now am complaining because it doesn't work like it did. But I'm just so sad. I didn't understand the true nature of infidelity. I didn't understand the true nature of love or marriage. I didn't know what I had. I didn't know how badly he could break. And I don't know that he'll ever be okay again.

I'm just so sad today.

I am so sorry you are still dealing with this. No, there is not a point where things are as good as they will get. Where there is life there is hope. It takes a lot of work and a willingness to change.

Murdering and maiming are the opposite of honor. Honorable people do not behave in that way. That is delusional thinking, however understandable, which needs to be exercised away.

Gently, the AP wasn't his enemy - YOU were. The AP was a poisoner, but you were the one who opened the door and showed him where your BS's oatmeal is. You were the one who let the AP slip out the back door while you stirred that poisoned oatmeal and fed it to your BS.

I say this not to shame you, but to point out that your BS is much stronger than he is allowing himself to be. If your BS could forgive you to the point of staying, the person who promised not to do the very thing you did, he is capable of letting go of vengeance for someone who promised no such thing.

The obsession with the AP 7 years out is extremely unhealthy. If he is not in IC right now, I really hope that he goes that way soon. So many wasted years spent on a person who he doesn't directly interact with is extremely sad.

I wish him health and healing.

Evolving, I think I understand. I forced a shit sandwich down my wife's throat and thought that everything would be ok. I would go to IC, would read every now and again. And be more present in our home and our every day lives and that would be enough. I was so wrong. She is in pain every day. Sometimes small, sometimes big. But its always there. And I want to act like its not. That if I ignore it, it will go away.

I mess up cause more pain and I want to act like it will pass. I can't imagine what our spouses are going through. I for 5 years I wouldn't let myself truly feel it. I don't know if I can. But I will try.

I know your sadness. You want to help, you want to fix. You wish you could take it all back. I know those feelings. I wish you and your husband some peace and happiness. Don't stop trying to comfort him.

I say this not to shame you, but to point out that your BS is much stronger than he is allowing himself to be. If your BS could forgive you to the point of staying, the person who promised not to do the very thing you did, he is capable of letting go of vengeance for someone who promised no such thing.

I wish that were so. But I don't think so. He did not really stay because he forgave me. It was more that he could not bear for the years he put into our relationship to have meant nothing. That there could maybe in the future be an outcome where it was all worth it.

AP was his enemy. He was in our lives, in our home, he pretended to me that he was fine "sharing" me. But he needled BS, made double entendres, did everything he could to undermine BS in my eyes. All while pretending to be sympathetic. BS just thought AP was spouting bullshit like the immature person he was. BS just knew that one day AP would go over the line with me (like try to touch me or something) and that I would read him the riot act and tell BS and BS could finally run him off like he'd been wanting to. To find out that all the stupid shit AP had been referring to was actually true...that it was fine for him to speak to and treat my BS that way and that there would never be any consequences...it's how BS defines himself now. Someone that you can shit on and get away with it.

We don't talk about this every day, but it's never far from BS's mind.

Something that is true, but people tend to avoid is that for some people, infidelity IS a deal breaker. I'm playing devil's advocate. I have nothing invested in your marriage. Not trying to rain all over you.

Maybe this is true for him. If that's the case, you should go your separate ways in the hopes that you could be happier elsewhere. Seven years is a very long time. Has he done IC or MC? Has he read any books? Does he read and post here?

If he has not tried those items, it might be time to bring them up. What he's doing is clearly not working for him or you. Have you done IC or MC? Read books? Etc. Support through this would be really helpful to you.

i don't want to make you feel any worse than already do, but if you set up situations where the AP and the BS had to interact, that is a brutal thing to get over. For me it was almost as bad as the sex. The sex was something selfish she did for her. This was something cruel she purposely did TO me.

My wife AP was the electrician on a big project. I had interactions with him about the job. Awful, but nothing out of the normal course of business.

The one thing that wasn't, was he convinced my wife to set up a business meeting with him to bank a project he wanted to do. To me, this went beyond just having a selfish affair. this was being a partner in humiliating me. I have wracked my brain, and she looked totally normal was she was hovering around us. She swears that she thought i could see right through her.

I also feel like a fool for being so trusting. All of us in my house and in my kitchen, and me suspecting nothing. I hate him for what he did, but she was the one who choose put us there. I have released most of the anger, but it is something that I deem unforgivable.

Not sure if you husband was in the same situation, but sounds like he was. If the AP was taunting him, that makes it even worse. Again, I am not saying this to be hurtful , its just to give you some perspective on how another man feels when he is put into that situation by someone he has total trust in.

I am six years out. We are giving it another try. We will never get back to where we were, but hopefully we can get to good enough. I have read some of your posts and I know you do a lot of reading and working on changing. Hopefully the work you are doing on yourself gets you further.

I also do think you are in a better position as he is focusing his anger on the AP. That gives you a fighting chance. For me, I hold my wife way more responsible. Tough when she is the one I see everyday. I wish you luck.

Something that is true, but people tend to avoid is that for some people, infidelity IS a deal breaker. I'm playing devil's advocate. I have nothing invested in your marriage. Not trying to rain all over you.

Maybe this is true for him. If that's the case, you should go your separate ways in the hopes that you could be happier elsewhere. Seven years is a very long time. Has he done IC or MC? Has he read any books? Does he read and post here?

If he has not tried those items, it might be time to bring them up. What he's doing is clearly not working for him or you. Have you done IC or MC? Read books? Etc. Support through this would be really helpful to you.

Smoke, he has not posted much here. I don't know if he reads. He really does not want to post here to be reminded of the club he's in. People here are people that were somehow able to "be fine with it." Kind of like people who buy a sports care during their midlife crises have their youth/virility/whatever validated by that. Posting here would just validate that he's fine with what happened. I know it's not rational. He has a lot of training in psychology and he's wicked smart but his brain won't let him see the flaw in this kind of thinking.

He has done loads of IC. He's done EMDR. He's read some books on forgiveness. I've done loads of IC and have been plugging along all these years on what I think of as the Great Brain Rewiring Project. He acknowledges how much progress I've made, he compliments me on it, tells me how far I've come and how proud of me he is for it. The relationship between him and I is so much better than it was for the first 15 years we were together because I have grown up. I found my why's. I'm less self-centered and far less entitled. But he has exactly the same relationship with AP. Nothing has changed except that the outward signs of it have diminished. He can put it on back burner for a time but it always comes back.

i don't want to make you feel any worse than already do, but if you set up situations where the AP and the BS had to interact, that is a brutal thing to get over. For me it was almost as bad as the sex. The sex was something selfish she did for her. This was something cruel she purposely did TO me.

Waited, yeah. I set him up again and again. I thought I was special, that I needed two men to fulfill my emotional and sex needs, that somehow I wasn't taking anything away from BS, so I tried to insinuate AP into our lives. I was trying to hide my affair in plain sight. I feel nauseated now when I think about it what I did. Bleh. When BS would balk I would insist that AP and I were "just friends", that I should be able to choose my friends, you know the drill...I wanted to eat cake. And BS kept believing me. I contrived reasons to stay at AP's house or for AP to stay at ours. And BS kept believing me.

I don't think it matters at this point how much I grow and change for the better. The wound is the relationship between BS and AP. That it can never be changed. And he wants to change it so very badly. He dreams about it. He wakes up sweating and furious sometimes.

ES, is it possible that your BS believes the marriage before the A was something much greater in his mind, then it actually was? He probably didn't realize you didn't know the "true nature of love and marriage". So he has been thinking he has lost this good marriage because of the A. Every year that goes by makes the feeling of loss worse. Time is not healing but constantly reminding him it's not getting better.

What I hope to share with you and him is that your marriage can be better then what he thought it was. You do not have to "accept that this is as good as it gets". Yes, it will take a lot of hard work and help from good caring people (IC and MC) but the hard work is so worth it to heal your marriage and be in a true loving relationship.

BW and i are 9 years out, it has never been easy, and sometimes a rocky road, but love can rebuild.

ES, is it possible that your BS believes the marriage before the A was something much greater in his mind, then it actually was? He probably didn't realize you didn't know the "true nature of love and marriage". So he has been thinking he has lost this good marriage because of the A. Every year that goes by makes the feeling of loss worse. Time is not healing but constantly reminding him it's not getting better.

No I don't think it's the marriage he's mourning...it's his own sense of who he is. He always thought that if anyone did something like that to him he would make sure they had a reason to regret it. That his honor demanded he would make them pay. He did not make AP pay for a long time because he simply could not believe what his gut was telling him. For my sake he stayed his hand, again and again. And then it all turned out to be horribly true. Everything his gut had been telling him was true. And I couldn't even choose him at the outset. I spent six months on the fence about our marriage and was not even able to renounce a possible future with AP if I left the marriage. It is so painful to admit that. It was 9 months before I sent the NC letter.

Sometimes I think it would be better for him if he just left me and pursued his revenge on AP. It would destroy any chance we have of being together but at least he would not spend the rest of his life living with "if only..."

Thanks to everyone helping me deal with this terrible sadness my choices have earned me. The SI community is like no other resource in my life. I don't much ask for help but when I do, it means so much to me to receive. Thank you again.

Hi

A thought:

Someone that you can shit on and get away with it.

Gently but bluntly, this is a state of mind and is only true if you let it be. But, that's all words.

So, what would it take to let feel one up on AP? (in essence)

Has he ever enunciated what would change that relationship for him? Realistically? Not what would he like, but, what would it take? Have you (or himself) asked that? A new place, a 1000 miles of separation, a new job, living better than AP, what???

It's clear he needs a way out, and something tangible and legal he can work towards, where perhaps you (and IC and those others here) can help find a way, but that answer is missing to me it seems, and perhaps the discussion that leads to it is missing as well(?)

I truly don't think it's you being gone that will fix it, so don't do that, but I do wonder if he truly knows himself.

Just my 2p with very best wishes -- IDK

So BS is not mourning the marriage, but is more focused on AP one upping him, and AP is going unpunished and getting away with it. I can relate but from the other side.

My BW has always been keenly able to read people usually spot-on. Until the A. She trusted me and the AP who was her friend. Her gut was telling something was off, but thought I would keep boundaries. I didn't, like a fool, crushing her, and causing her to question her ability to protect herself by reading people. It has been a long journey, not to get back to the same place, but to get to a new place of trust and love.

For your BS, retaliation isn't the answer. Let's say he could find away to "murder or maim" AP and not get caught. He would still have to deal with himself. Or if AP moved to the North Pole, BS would still have to deal with himself and his pride.

My thought is pride. Gently... His pride is the factor here. He has to deal with it. Nothing within you, but ultimately his pride. He will need help to find its roots and find a way to humble himself. No easy task, but attainable.

Sometimes I think it would be better for him if he just left me and pursued his revenge on AP. It would destroy any chance we have of being together

Can you explain this?

WS has to heal WS. BS has to heal BS. That's what they say over in the R forum and we don't really talk about it much here. Of course as WS grows into a better person, BS feels more safe and secure. However, all these feelings he has towards AP? Only BS can resolve those. IC, reading, etc. is the only way to heal.

Have you done your work? Have you dealt with the deeper issues and become a safe partner? Part of me wonders if he is holding on to all this anger/hate for AP to avoid dealing with the thoughts and feelings he has in regards to you. 2-5 years is an estimate and only holds true if you two are working. You can't just tap your foot waiting for the years to pass and expect to heal.

For some cheating is a deal breaker. I think my BH is one of them. We are still together but I'm no longer delusional about his health. That's on him. Doesn't matter what I do I know I can't heal him. I've been a lot happier since I stopped trying to fix this for him. The only person I can fix is me.

^^ Yes.

if he ... pursued his revenge on AP. It would destroy any chance we have of being together

If your husband gets revenge on the other man, why can you no longer be with your husband?

EvolvingSoul I am so sorry you are dealing with that.

If you peep at my signature, you will see that I am a BS and that my husband cheated with a "friend" of mine. She was in my home, interacted with me, talked shit about my husband to me in an effort to break us up, made shitty jokes about me around me. Basically, a mirror image of your husband's story.

I don't think the way he does about it because the AP is not important to me. The AP is not important enough to impact my self image.

This may be because your husband and I are just different, but it may be because I have been in IC since day 1, read all the things, meditate daily, pursue my own goals and hobbies and look forward instead of back (as much as humanly possible).

It's been 7 years, your husband is not letting go of the past. No external thing is going to allow him to do that. Only work. It sounds like he needs help.

Focus on your own journey, I hope he gets the help he needs.

I completely understand his unresolved anger.

Both you and this guy continually set your husband up to be humiliated and mocked right to his face, over and over. Like bullies on the playground.

I didn't know what I had..

I ask this in all honesty. Why would you need to know 'what you had' in order to be able to show your husband the most basic tenet of respect and decency?

Until and unless he's able to deal with this guy, he'll probably always have this anger, no matter how much therapy he gets.

If your husband gets revenge on the other man, why can you no longer be with your husband?

Murder or premeditated maiming would be a deal breaker for me. Couldn't live with it. Wouldn't. Not out of protection for AP, either. Out of protection for my own self identity and I guess what I want to believe is true about BS. It would destroy us because staying with BS after something like that would destroy my integrity. I destroyed my integrity during the affair. I've worked so damned hard to build it back and build it up. I could not be okay with knowing BS was a murderer or practitioner of premeditated violence.

Has he ever enunciated what would change that relationship for him? Realistically? Not what would he like, but, what would it take? Have you (or himself) asked that? A new place, a 1000 miles of separation, a new job, living better than AP, what???

I have asked this question many times, and so has he. We are three moves down the line from where we lived during the affair. We recently moved to another state. We don't have any idea what kind of life AP is living or where. Well I don't. Perhaps BS has kept tabs. I don't know. I know BS does not want to feel this way, he just cannot see a path to not feeling this way.

I ask this in all honesty. Why would you need to know 'what you had' in order to be able to show your husband the most basic tenet of respect and decency?

Because, in all honesty, during the affair and even long before that I did not really see people as people. I saw them as sources of feelings for me. I don't think I even considered myself to be completely "real". My life was more of a performance with constant spinning and editing. Hiding what I thought would make me look bad, emphasizing what I thought would make me look good. To my audience. My critics. My fans. The sources of my feelings. It was a fucked up way to see the world and my place in it. I don't think that way anymore.

Now I see my BS as a person and I realize what an extraordinary person he is. I had no idea how lucky I was to be loved by him.

Out of protection for my own self identity and I guess what I want to believe is true about BS. It would destroy us because staying with BS after something like that would destroy my integrity.

Just like staying with you after your infidelity is destroying his integrity? You murdered and maimed him yet YOU are trying to establish moral guidelines and boundaries that he has to follow on top of having to find a way to keep his dignity after the destruction YOU caused