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What do you make of her initial reaction?

Indeed, you do have quite a long hard road ahead...so sorry man, but I had a hunch she would react exactly as she did.

She needs help, IC ASAP!

Likely alcohol treatment too.

If you had been slashing your wife's car tires, and you had truly not remembered any of it, and your wife told you about it and your denied, and then she caught video, what would be your reaction? Pissed that she caught video, or just completely aghast that it actually was true?

[This message edited by wk55hn at 9:20 PM, May 21st (Sunday)]

She knew what she was doing all along. She's angry you put up proof because she cant just say you are making it up and ignore you, instead she blames you for now for having the proof. Blameshifting 101 after gaslighting 101.

So, what is your plan? What now?

Ok.... so it's all out now.... best friend saw video, showed to to my wife, wife's girl friend has not seen it, however both had conversations with her. Her husband gave her ultimatum... and she is all screwed up about it.... can't stop crying, still stating she does not remember any of it, but acknoledges what everyone is telling her what happened.... and must have happened.... really? No need for video?, and she immediately believes? Interesting......

DeeplyClueless, yes it’s all out now, but the above post from you is a little confusing, I’m sure it’s because you yourself are still in the shock of it all, and so your mind is jumping and racing around all over the place, you have to try to calm yourself down, not easy I know, but you do not want to make yourself ill, you have enough problems as it is.

So to help me understand/put the pieces together of what you are trying to tell us I have broken it down for you to fill in the detail pieces, please don’t take this as a criticism, it’s not, I fully understand you are under a lot of stress.

First off where all four of you together when this happened I’m not sure?

This is what I understand from your post, your best friend and your wife have seen the video, and his wife has not.

For the rest here goes,

however both had conversations with her ? >Who had conversations with who?

Her husband gave her ultimatum... and she is all screwed up about it.... can't stop crying, still stating she does not remember any of it, but acknoledges what everyone is telling her what happened.... and must have happened.... really? No need for video?, and she immediately believes? Interesting. >Who? Are you talking about here, his wife? and are you saying that his wife is also saying she does not remember any thing that happened because of the drink?

Then you go on,

and regarding my wife, she saw video, and saw that something really happened.... but still seems to be in total denial.... she still states she does not remember any of it, and is now crying all the time also.... still absorbing it all.... > ect, ect, ect,

This is standard cheating spouse reactions in my and others opinions on here this is from both of the WS, do not believe a word of it, you and your best friend are not to blame for any of this, as for your wife and her friend this is also not the first time they have been together sexually, and they have been fully aware of what they have done together each and every single time, trying to use the drink excuse is total Bull Shit, and yes like I said in my previous post is now the case, I now believe they have beaten you two (other BS) to the winning post (not the best choice of word but it fits) and formed their storyline together in the hope you both will believe it.

So now you have a big decisions to make, your friend also, but I will deal with you only although I would say the samr ti him, don’t rush through you thoughts, take your time to think them through fully first, here is some of them, is your wife truly remorseful or not, do you want to or not try to repair the marriage, do you think she really wants too also, what boundaries are you going to insist on, I’m afraid you are going to have to loose your friend and he you, not ideal but necessary for you both.

I’m sure there is a lot more, deal with each one in turn is all I can advise.

Regards BJE49

I'm so sorry this happened to you. Anger is a classic blameshifting tactic. It's to undermine you, make you second guess yourself, make you feel like you're crazy.

Having an affair is a betrayal no matter what the gender of the other person. There's no downplaying it because the affair partner doesn't have a penis

I don't believe she didn't know and I think if there were to be any hope of reconciliation there needs to be honesty, no more drinking, and the other woman out of her life entirely.

Crying doesn't mean theyre sorry they did it. Crying means they're sorry they got caught

Sorry for dumping my thoughts in my last post…. My mind was racing at 200 miles per hour… Let me clarify a bit and provide feedback to your questions.

- My wife’s initial reaction is a combination of things I guess: she seems pretty much completely aghast that it actually was true… Also, she did not believe me when I verbally told her…. So I assume she is also pissed internally that she had nothing to argue with since it was in video. – Tough to argue that you did NOT do something, when she sees herself doing it on video…. I guess she is pretty messed-up internally since she is all over the place in our conversations. I am also 100% sure that it would have NEVER happened without alcohol.

In summary, my best friend and his wife have seen the video. His wife has not.

- I showed my wife (just her and I) the video early one morning, so we could try to have a calm, and clear headed discussion about it.

- As of now, both my wife and my best friend have both seen the proof (they viewed separately, and my best friend has viewed days before my wife viewed it.)

- His wife is the only one that has NOT seen the proof yet, however her husband has confronted her with the fact that he, himself, saw the video.

- What is interesting is that she has not asked to see the video, and just “believes” that the actions have taken place…. With no arguments, etc. One would deduct that she remembers at least some of the events.

- My wife also discussed with her friend what she saw on the video. Her friend apparently was pretty much surprised, and can’t believe it “actually” happened…. She cried for hours, and her husband mentioned yesterday that she is pretty screwed up about it.

I totally agree and aware to the fact that they BOTH push each other into having “just one more drink”, and then “just one more”, and on, and on, for a reason!

Subconscious or not, they drink because it makes them both feel good temporarily…. And yes, also sexually good between them. They are to blame for their actions, and no one else.

What’s next? One of the big steps has been taken I guess… “Things are now on the table” I plan to focus on my wife and I…. Their marriage is theirs, and my wife and I both have enough to deal with. My wife has a LOT on her plate to think about and decide how she wishes to move on. Boundaries have been set, (including alcohol) and what I can and can’t live with clearly communicated out to her. I know that I can move forward in our marriage within those boundaries. We need to find a way to move forward and to not linger on too much into this negative situation…. It is draining everything out of us. Ie. Resolve it, and then just move forward.

That said, I am not sure that she can accept what she has done, and move forward… From what I observe, she is very ashamed of what she did, and that I found out about it, and that others also know about it… no hiding from this one.

She has stated / admitted yesterday that she needed some professional help to help her deal with the situation, and correct them, including the alcohol part.

… We will see, and time will tell, but there is nothing worst than time. As a guy, like most guys, we identify a problem, identify solutions, then immediately fix them – period. This sucks.

When younger, I drank a bit and many of my friends drank way too much, blackouts, etc. - sometimes they couldn't remember, sometimes they could. Almost always they could remember enough to figure it out.

For a person to not remember at all over and over is something I can't believe. For two people to both not remember, multiple times - I could not believe that.

What’s next? One of the big steps has been taken I guess… “Things are now on the table” I plan to focus on my wife and I…. Their marriage is theirs, and my wife and I both have enough to deal with. My wife has a LOT on her plate to think about and decide how she wishes to move on. Boundaries have been set, (including alcohol) and what I can and can’t live with clearly communicated out to her. I know that I can move forward in our marriage within those boundaries. We need to find a way to move forward and to not linger on too much into this negative situation…. It is draining everything out of us. Ie. Resolve it, and then just move forward.

That said, I am not sure that she can accept what she has done, and move forward… From what I observe, she is very ashamed of what she did, and that I found out about it, and that others also know about it… no hiding from this one.

She has stated / admitted yesterday that she needed some professional help to help her deal with the situation, and correct them, including the alcohol part.

… We will see, and time will tell, but there is nothing worst than time. As a guy, like most guys, we identify a problem, identify solutions, then immediately fix them – period. This sucks.

I'm impressed, DC. You have handled this well.

Now your task is to enforce the boundaries. That will likely prove difficult and will require a lot of strength on your part as, from the sound of things, your WW will not comply willingly.

As I presume you understand, this is gong to be a long process and there is no guarantee that it will work. I suggest you get help for yourself, perhaps counseling and/or from Al-Anon.

I still think that moving away from the other couple will prove necessary and the sooner the better.

What is interesting is that she has not asked to see the video, and just “believes” that the actions have taken place…. With no arguments, etc. One would deduct that she remembers at least some of the events.

Exactly

I totally agree and aware to the fact that they BOTH push each other into having “just one more drink”, and then “just one more”, and on, and on, for a reason!

This was their little dance that let each of them know that the other was game for one more time. Kind of like flirting. Being drunk was both their internal and external excuse for it happening.

I’m not responsible because I was so drunk. I didn’t do it because I was so drunk I don’t remember. They were still using these excuses until the video.

They are not telling the truth but for the sake of argument lets say that they are. It would be kind of like sleepwalking. If they were sleepwalking and did something completely out of character why would they do it again and again? They would do some other random thing the next time they sleepwalked.

It was naughty and being drunk gave them an excuse. My bet is that they never mentioned it to each other unless it was about how to handle you. It was their game. Get drunk, get frisky and pretend it didn’t happen even to each other.

You need to handle this as a full affair.

Has she even apologized to you? That is usually the first step. Have you received that? Do you feel remorse from her?

Request NC from your spouse with the other wife. I wonder if she will accept this. I think if she doesn't she may end up choosing the A over you.

Give her all the reading lit you can about her helping you heal from this.

She should be in IC and probably join AA.

I agree, move if you can. A boundary has been crossed. You need to work to get you and her out of this infidelity.

Let her know that D is a real possibility because of her actions.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 2:58 PM, May 22nd (Monday)]

I'm a little concerned that you are simply going to "rug-sweep" this if she says she won't do it again.

I know that I can move forward in our marriage within those boundaries. We need to find a way to move forward and to not linger on too much into this negative situation…. It is draining everything out of us. Ie. Resolve it, and then just move forward.

Dude. You are going to have to grieve. It isn't "lingering", but allowing yourself to grieve what has just happened, then heal and move forward. Either with her or on your own.

There are very few WS that snap their fingers and never make another mistake. Your wife is in deep denial, and you are too, if you think she didn't know this was going on, or if alcohol HAS to be involved. She has a same-sex attraction. She's acted on it. THIS has to be dealt with. THEN you have to deal with knowing your wife is, and could be, an unfaithful spouse.

If you don't deal with this...it's gonna come out some way. Anger is going to hit whether you want it to or not. Fear, sadness...all of it. Trying to just move on because its draining will end up destroying your relationship anyway.

So, if she makes a poor choice, are you done? How strong are your boundaries? Is she is complete agreement and showing you that she is making steps to deal with what she's done?

I'm with those that say there is no way neither remembered anything.

I believe they were both very aware of what they were doing and were doing it because they wanted to.

I also believe that they have already discussed how to react if ever confronted.

They both definitely have alcohol issues but there is no way that they were both black out drunk and both unable to remember anything that happened.

Maybe one of your steps should be having her take a poly to see if she is telling you the truth about not remembering anything.

I fear you are being manipulated and lied to as well as gaslighted.

Cheaters lie. Thats a fact. Also, most cheaters gaslight, minimize and TT (trickle truth) immediately after DDay. There is a good chance that there is more information that you don't know about.

Moving forward begins with her finding out why she would make shitty choices to cheat and cause you so much pain.

She needs to go to AA and also find out why she drinks so much.

This site is awesome at helping navigate BS's through this horrible betrayal. Keep posting and reading. There is a lot of great information to be found on this site. Read the healing library and consider reading and getting your WS (wayward spouse) to read

How to Help your Spouse heal from your Affair and Not Just Friends.

They are both great reads and will help you both understand what you are feeling and will help your WS figure out how to help you heal.

From your post, it doesn't sound like your WW is remorseful yet. She is blame shifting and trying to come up with excuses for her shitty behaviour. She needs to get to a place where she owns what she did and understands the impact it has taken and will take going forward on you and your M. Reading those books can help. There is a lot of great information in them.

No contact is a 100% necessity.

DeeplyClueless (DC), Cmego once again has got her finger right on the button, what your real problems are.

Please read her post again it makes a lot of sense please read from I’m a little concerned.

Here’s what I get from only the first part of your last post, and yes I also can see signs of you wanting to rug sweep, hoping that if you do you can then move on, it never works this way.

DC you said, I am also 100% sure that it would have NEVER happened without alcohol.

BJE49 > up to a certain point I can accept you thinking that, but here’s my view/thoughts on what I believe/think really happened, it’s that on the very first occasion it happened, alcohol did play some part in it, enough to make them both loose some control over their emotions, enough for them to bring up the subject of same sex, sex, enough for them to talk about it, curious enough for them wanting to know what it would be like, so quite possibly this then happened, they tried a few tentative kisses between them, to see how they it felt, these kisses proceeded to grow more intense and this led to other cravings between them, ultimately with them having and enjoying full on same sex sex, bringing each other to orgasm/s, so now they have moved through 2 stages here, first from being Bi-curious to becoming Bi-sexual women, this is not lesbianism as they still enjoy having sex with their respective husbands, but have no doubt they were fully aware all the time in what they were doing behind you and your friend’s back’s, they found something new about themselves and were enjoying it so much they did not really give it a thought or care about what this was doing to their marriages and how much hurt it would cause you their husbands, even when they got found out, they did they want to stop, the alcohol they consumed did NOT! In any way make them forget anything, DC, don’t for one moment think it did, they hope you guys will believe what they told you in their colluded storyline, it is total Bull Shit.

About Friends wife DC you said, What is interesting is that she has not asked to see the video, and just “believes” that the actions have taken place…. With no arguments, etc. One would deduct that she remembers at least some of the events.

BJE49 > you got this nearly right, but you should deduct from this, that she remembers all of the events and the times they did it together, of course she did not want to see the video, she did not need too, just like your wife also remembers every detail, your wife only watched it to see if their prearranged Bull Shit story would hold water and be believable, I suspect it does not hold water to either you or your friend, for goodness sake at least you take your blinkers off DC.

DC you said, My wife also discussed with her friend what she saw on the video. Her friend apparently was pretty much surprised, and can’t believe it “actually” happened…. She cried for hours, and her husband mentioned yesterday that she is pretty screwed up about it.

BJE49 > Having not seen the video I can only suspect it more likely shows their colluded story of not remembering anything about their sexual relations does not hold water from what is on the video.

The problem is your wife as far as I can see has never shown or said anything about remorseful, all I can see is she regrets being caught out and being confronted by you, she has to totally accept all the blame for her actions and to show you some true remorse, without this, it is a waste of time trying to move on, don’t let her or you rug sweep.

Regards BJE49

CincyKid - "She would have remembered it if you had flipped on the lights and yelled at the top of your lungs "WTF?!?!?!!!""

LOL!

I agree.... If I could time travel, the best thing, in each instance, would not have probably been to NOT overthink and and just yell at top of my loungs.... "WTF". keeping it simple is probably the best option.

Brother, you need to back up and reevaluate this situation. This was NOT an alcohol-induced string of one-night stands, for lack of a better description. This is full-fledged infidelity, and both of them know exactly what was happening.

From your initial posts:

Since my wife does not work, nor his wife, they have been spending a lot of time together doing various sports, shopping, day shopping trips here and there.

more and more her friend frequently insisted that she stays over since she was too drunk.

They also have been taking the occasion overnighter to do kayaking, biking, and shopping trips

I then decided to take my wife on a 2 week trip overseas to try to spend some quality time with my wife, and get away from the whole situation…. They talked and texted multiple times each day, and uppon our return, they had missed each other, so much, that they again got drunk at our house.

My observation is that our wives seems like a young couple that just fell in love…. Always looking for excuses to to things together, buying similar things, both getting tattoos, etc.

If your wife was acting this way with another man, would you even be considering that sex wouldn't have happened without alcohol?

They are deeply immeshed in an emotional and physical affair right under your nose. Spending a lot of time together, taking trips together (you know what they were planning on doing on those trips, correct?), and texting, calling, and missing each other so much that the first thing they did upon your return from your trip was to jump into bed together. They know exactly what they are doing man. They just believe(d?), for some reason, that you would be ok with it. They talk and spend a lot of time together sober. Do you really believe they are completely clueless about how they feel for each other?

They are going to have to go completely no contact. I agree that someone is going to have to move. Stop thinking that all of this is just an alcohol-induced aberration. It is not. They are in an affair.

I would be very skeptical about your friend as well. His reactions seem very strange to me. Too neutral. I know I only have the information you have provided, but wouldn't you expect him to be angry? Indignant? Something other than you have posted here? What are the odds that on the nights she slept-over, he was joining them?

You need to take charge of this situation brother. You need to be taking clear, specific steps to get yourself out of infidelity. Find your strength. Your wife is destroying your marriage. You need to stop being so passive. I know this is a difficult and emotional time for you, but you are not being strong enough right now. Please don't bury your head in the sand, hoping this will all fix itself. It won't.

Keep posting and please listen to the advice here. It will help you save your emotional health and your self-respect.

DC, I hate to say this but what Gettingoveritall suggested that your friend might also have been involved with them in this mess, might have some truth to it, I hope not, but she did stay over quite often at theirs, why didn’t his wife not stay over so often at yours too? Because they had already been caught in the act by you and they know it, so they decided nothing could or would happen there again so as to keep you in the dark right! And I have to agree it would explain some of what can only be called his negative reactions at times to their affair,

I like you just accepted straight away that he also was a BS in all of this.

You need to think about this, and if there is any possibility that there may be a schread of truth in it, then you have to find out as this creates a very different situation for you. I cannot see any other way IMO to find out if this is true other than demand your wife take a polygraph, don’t tell her it’s that you suspect your friend is also involved, but more that a poly is the only way you can see in giving you the closure, and you need to see that she is now telling you the truth, so you can both move forward, I believe normally in a poly it’s best to ask only a few questions, I would suggest no more than 6, something like the below so only a Yes or No answer is required.

First off it needs to be explained to her by the polygrapher what is meant by the terms of an affair, sex or sexual contact. So she fully understands.

Before seeing the video were you telling your husband the truth when you said you did not remembering any sexual contact happening with (friend’s wife name?)

Have you ever had sex with anyone other than your husband in your marital home?

Have you ever had any other affair or affairs over the time you have been married to your husband?

Has (friends name) at any time watched you and (his wife’s name) when you two made love to each other.

Has (friend’s name) ever been involved in three way sex with you and his wife?

Has (friend’s name) ever had sex with you alone?

If you decide to do a polygraph, don’t tell her about the question that will be asked, be prepared for a parking lot confession, in fact offer her a last chance in the parking lot to come clean if she is hiding anything.

You owe it to yourself to get to the truth, and yes I think your friend will find out afterwards through your wife, that you thought he might have been involved too, but does it really matter your friendship is going to be over anyway because of your wives.

Regards BJE49

[This message edited by BJE49 at 10:47 AM, May 26th (Friday)]

I sincerely doubt this is the explanation, so please don't jump all over me here, however - If your WW truly had no recollection but the OW does seem to remember/accept something happened, it could potentially (but unlikely) be true of the OW roofied your WW. It could explain why the OW seems to believe and accept that the events occurred, but your WW does not.

A poly for one or both of these APs is probably the only way out of the questions. If roofies were administered, they metabolize out of the bloodstream and are undetectable after 8-12 hours (I accompanied someone to the ER once who was raped using roofies and learned this at that time).

I do not think the roofie story is likely, more like very remotely possible.