SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I think Gettingoveritall is right. This goes so much deeper than a friendship getting out of hand. It just doesn't make much sense. It sounds like they're both crying because their relationship ended and not because they both somehow had an A they don't remember. Think about asking her to take a polygraph. Her reaction alone will be telling.

My 21-year-old daughter: "Drunk cheating is still cheating."

My 28-year-old daughter: "So their story is they date raped each other?! This is ridiculous!"

This whole "I can't remember" story is so far-fetched it's laughable. Would you buy it if you walked in on your wife and your best friend having sex? These two women have gone out of their way to spend as much time together as possible, text and talk on the phone as often as possible, and fall asleep in the same bed on a regular basis. I've had some good friends but even without sex this is so much contact they might as well be the married ones. I wouldn't believe for one second that these two haven't been having sex when off on their excursions together and without alchohol involved. The alcohol makes a convenient excuse.

However, if your wife and the other wife truly cannot remember having sexual encounters with each other because of alchohol, then they should be going to meetings and obstaining altogether. After all, if they are black out drunks who become sexually aroused, who knows who else they've been having sex with that they can't remember when they are partying? Seriously, if they can't remember their behavior with each other, drinking is dangerous for them.

My husband's two choices would be to either come clean on his lack of memory or never have another drink anywhere again. And that's if I chose to reconcile. Because this story is seriously bullshit.

[This message edited by Tearsoflove at 3:42 PM, May 26th (Friday)]

A standard for this site is no contact between affair partners. Has your ww and the other woman gone no contact? If not, why?

I can't believe it either. However, I once started having sex in a car while drinking a lot and the only thing I remember is starting to. I woke up miles away with my date driving us home. Haha

Another remote possibility is that when in early twenties we used to wake up having sex in the middle of the night. Of course we remembered it the next morning but could there have been times we didn't remember it. We weren't drinking those times .

But, this having become a regular thing just seems to me to easy. Their actions now seems to be more regret at being caught than the realization that they were sexing it up.

How far did they get on the video? Was this just kissing? More? Does your wife ever get loaded and act this way with you?......... and not remember it?

Past questions: Gotta admit that at times, after MANY drinks, she has not remembered having sex with me... that is one reason i kinda-sorta believe her story.... to some extent of course. For sure, and no arguments there, my wife has alcool issues, and her friend's husband is totaly clueless.... nice guy, but gotta say, totally clueless.

So.... Weeks have passed and wives have sticked to boundaries imposed..... they still share activities ... landscaping around both houses, bike rides, etc.... And do NOT have venues for unnaceptable activities.... they are observed by many.... sucks to have to monitor! But so far so good... but. that said,....

My observations, are that my wife is totally impatient with me for any reasons, and the tension is quite high at home many times.... she seems to try to be nice and all, but i am always walking on eggshells....

she gas a LOT of issues accepting that things actually happened... believe me, she has a freakin huge ego, and needs to make sure appearances to the outside world is perfect.... ...but still feels she needs her best friend.... as a friend... i do know for a fact that nothing happens without alcool beteen them, but it sometimes feels like living with a drug addicts that are trying hard, but still planning for that next shot / pill, or whatever. I observe that both of them are just cumulating... and hoping for that next gin-tonic together.... so far it did happen twice as couples, but both wifes went back to sleep with their husbands at home.

Only sex we had since last posting is safter a wedding that involved alcool... quite passionate i must say but She did not remember next day.

So i am excercising, biking, etc... and thinking about ME more than ever.... while still working hard on our relationship. I am not ready to give up, but at the same time i am not stupid either. It's a day by day thing so far. Loosing trust SUCKS!

Thanks for your support!

Deeply, I'm glad to hear from you. But be careful, since you are sitting on a ticking bomb.

I truly wish that both of you will make a deliberate effort to thoughtfully change your personal and marital habits. Did she try AA? Is she going to?

You are saying you are working hard on this relationship. What exactly do you do? Do you read? Do you have open conversations with your wife about your issues? I wish you well, Deeply.

If she doesn't get herself into AA, it's likely to get ugly again in the future.

Please take care of yourself.

Imo this decision of yours not to push for nc between ww and her girlfriend is a huge mistake and will come back to haunt you and your m. If it were a boyfriend instead would you be ok with them "dating" (which is what they are doing because friends don't have sex)?

This plan of yours ran from making the hard choices, kicked the can on what's needed, bought into her bullshit story, and is rugsweeping to a massive degree.

I say this gently but if your wife would refuse to go nc vs choosing you and the m you don't have a foundation to even make the m salvageable.

Imo this decision of yours not to push for nc between ww and her girlfriend is a huge mistake and will come back to haunt you and your m. If it were a boyfriend instead would you be ok with them "dating" (which is what they are doing because friends don't have sex)?

This plan of yours ran from making the hard choices, kicked the can on what's needed, bought into her bullshit story, and is rugsweeping to a massive degree.

I say this gently but if your wife would refuse to go nc vs choosing you and the m you don't have a foundation to even make the m salvageable.

DeeplyClueless ""this above""

I see you still have your blinkers on, so you can't see and get to the truth of what is going on clearly, you are not doing anything positive in putting a stop to it and resolving your problems, and in doing so you are making your marriage worse than it already is.

Man up, make her do a poly, also tell your WW there is to be NC with OW, period, and what other ground rules (don’t waffle as you certainly need some) you want (not what she wants) are from now on, she knows what she has done and is still doing, don’t for one moment think these continued meetups are innocent, that’s BS(bull shit), I know you say they are innocent, how do you know for sure, are you with them always so you can say this with confidence or do you have a PI or friends following their every move! For that’s what it would take to convince me, and from a far longer period than you have allowed.

Regards BJE49

[This message edited by BJE49 at 6:01 AM, June 7th (Wednesday)]

Deeply.

You can't be working on the marriage alone. If she is not working on it too then you're not working on the marriage at all.

Good that you are working on yourself. But I still think you need to start talking to a lawyer and give her a wake up call.

Question: has she even apologized for what she has done and how it affected you?

I'm pretty sure she should never drink again.

Deeply - you are in deep denial. Best case scenario, your wife is bisexual and having an intense EA/PA with another woman. Worst case scenario - you are married to a lesbian who is having an intense EA/PA and probable exit affair.

Assuming she is bisexual, this is not "hot", it is a direct danger to your marriage (unless she is not bi-romantic but I get confused by all those labels - all I knew was my wife was having sex with other people and with a woman in particular).

All her stories about not remembering, etc. are just lies and gas lighting. The fact that she didn't demand to see the video immediately is telling. I know if my wife accused me of humping the neighbor, told me she had video, and I didn't remember doing it, I would DEMAND to see it immediately.

You said this:

My observations, are that my wife is totally impatient with me for any reasons, and the tension is quite high at home many times.... she seems to try to be nice and all, but i am always walking on eggshells....

She is impatient - and there is tension between you - because you have come between her and what she wants. My wife did the exact same thing to me. She was PISSED at me - because I was trying to keep her from having sex with the other woman. (barf because she wanted to have sex with someone else, not because it was a woman).

I know a lot of other people here have experienced the post confrontation rage that the cheater lets out when you stand in the way of the affair.

[This message edited by Northsider12 at 9:24 AM, June 7th (Wednesday)]

OP,

You are rug sweeping this because you think the alcohol and same sex make it less like "real cheating". But this wouldn't have happened if they weren't attracted to each other, alcohol or not. Bottom line; you are making a mistake.

By accepting their continued contact, your wife realizes that you have effectively minimized her having sex with her friend. Not only that, they will have the opportunity to foster their relationship even further - and will likely hook up again when they have a chance.

And you can rest assured they will eventually have that chance.

No friendship is worth more than a marriage. If she is genuinely remorseful, she will accept no contact.

[This message edited by badmemory at 9:56 AM, June 7th (Wednesday)]

DC please stop having sex with your wife when she has been drinking!!!!!!

It could be twisted against you.

Your wife is having an affair. Period. There is NO way in heck I would have drunk sex with a woman. My husband find out and then garden while spouses are away.

Neither of these woman are bothered by the fact they had sex together. If they felt shame or embarrassment. They would not be gardening or doing whatever chores.

This is a mess

Imo this decision of yours not to push for nc between ww and her girlfriend is a huge mistake and will come back to haunt you and your m. If it were a boyfriend instead would you be ok with them "dating" (which is what they are doing because friends don't have sex)?

This plan of yours ran from making the hard choices, kicked the can on what's needed, bought into her bullshit story, and is rugsweeping to a massive degree.

I say this gently but if your wife would refuse to go nc vs choosing you and the m you don't have a foundation to even make the m salvageable

^^^Agree x10. You are in denial. Your wife is more than likely an alcoholic, AND NC should have been established.

All of you are probably right…. And I am most likely still in deep denial…

I have up given everything for my marriage…. Then again, probably not enough from I am experiencing. Who am I to judge anyway… in all honesty, I am losing everything I cared for in this lifetime, so I really can't go down without a fight. What can I say, I am a hopeless romantic, that seems to be fighting for maybe not much at all in the end.

One thing for clear, is that she either does not accept mentally what happened between them, or, that she can't stand me between between them. Everything from her perspective is my fault… I have not seen any different signs.

I guess I am not a "just found out" person anymore…. But in all honesty, not sure where to go from now on!

What's that old saying…. No where to go but up, when you hit rock bottom…. Rock bottom being a quite gray area some times, since you know you still have a ways to go down some more before REALLY hitting rock bottom. Man, this sucks!

in affairs the bs becomes the odd man out. because the cheater and ap are keeping secrets, its a relationship founded on keeping secrets from the bs. its normal.

thats another reason its so vital to put nc in place between ws and ap. that relationship needs to be severed. always. no exceptions.

you are hitting this wall because you didnt sever that relationship. but she resented you before you jfo (to justify it as ok in her mind) and resents you for not disappearing so shes guilt free and resents you for putting a cramp in her A. so its normal. want it to fade? sever that relationship.

its essential on so many levels and your choosing not to do so is killing any hope of ever reconciliation.

She's not an idiot, she knows exactly what she is doing and what she did. What she is doing now is called gas lighting and it is as common as ants at a picnic around here.

You need to end the relationship with your friends or your marriage is over. If you want to be a romantic and fight for your marriage then step up and do something to protect it. Actions, not words.

Deeply,

I have to agree with Sharkman:

She's not an idiot, she knows exactly what she is doing and what she did. What she is doing now is called gas lighting and it is as common as ants at a picnic around here.

The thing is, although you say you may be in denial, your wife is actively denying something that is pretty obvious. That puts you in an awkward position, because as Sharkman says, you are faced with gas-lighting and maybe outright lies. When you are fighting to save a marriage, that does not make your task easier!

You need to end the relationship with your friends or your marriage is over. If you want to be a romantic and fight for your marriage then step up and do something to protect it.

I think you need to get some acknowledgement/support of the situation from your friends on this. I don't know what may be going on in your friend's wife's head in relation to her relationship with your wife, but it seems like your wife, in a fog of either booze or her affair, thinks she has a prospect of a romantic/ sexual relationship with the other man's wife. That means it affects the other marriage, as well as yours.

At the moment, your wife is angry that the affair has been blocked, but what I think is needed is something like an 'intervention' where both couples sit down and apply a 2x4 to your wife's thinking to let her know that whatever she thinks is going to happen with her and the other wife is never going to happen. Only when she accepts the reality of the situation can any progress be made. You should not blame yourself at all, this is down to your wife's actions and decisions, and she may have been the active instigator of what occurred with the other wife. It was interesting, as another poster commented, that the other wife accepted that things had happened, without even asking to see the video. If she knew what had gone on, it is certain that your wife knows too. Her response was not disbelief, but a threat to sue you for invasion of privacy!

As things stand, your wife's state of mind is a threat to two marriages, and the other couple need to be playing their part too. The other husband needs to wise up and accept that your wife may well want to take his wife away, and he needs to question whether he would let a man with similar intentions spend so much time with his wife.

All is not lost, it is just that your wife is making it as awkward as she can, ignoring the fact that whatever she thinks is going to happen is simply not a possibility in the real world. You and the other couple have to get that across to your wife and have her accept it, even if it has to be the other wife stating explicitly that she is not interested in destroying her marriage for the sake of some drunken all-female groping sessions. Your wife needs to think through where she thinks she is going with this, because she could end up wrecking her own marriage, and not be with the other wife anyway.

Deeply, I can see signs from what you are now saying that your blinkers are beginning to work loose, allowing you to see a little more of the truth each time what's happening around you, soon I hope they will fall off altogether, then you can really make the positive decisions and moves you need to make, to get you out of this infidelity with or without your WW by your side.

You will soon realise your futile past decisions, were mainly based on denial, in the hope that everything would work out ok if you did not rock the boat to much and just leave it alone and she would come back to you, you will realise this is not happening the way you expected, you will also realise that what we have been saying all along has been the truth, we know it to be so because many of us has been through it or seen it many times before on SI, so you will know from what has been said to you, what exactly you need to do, and to be firm in your actions don’t give in an inch.

If you need to rope in the help of the OBS, and his WW to get through to your wife then so be it, but I'm not so sure his WW is all for saving her marriage as he or you are sure she wants to, why? Because you are both still allowing them to see each other and believe me they will both be connecting sexually any time they can, it's not as innocent as you both think or want to believe it is, you are both being fools to trust them. NC has to be established NOW! From you both no exceptions, if OBS doesn’t agree then you make this ruling on your own to your WW.

It’s not going to be an easy road to traverse there is still much pain and hurt to come both your ways, before you can come out the other side a better persons, again with or without your WW by your side, it may not or may cost you many years of your lives and even then you still may not win, yet we all realise we have to go down this road in the end whether we like it or not to R or D, I can’t give you a quick answer I’m afraid.

Regards BJE49

[This message edited by BJE49 at 11:38 AM, June 13th (Tuesday)]