SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

"i dont see the good in destroying two families." She already did THAT damage. lifeiscrazy has made some good points. Follow them. All of us here have been through a variation of your story. Respect yourself and if she doesn't respect you then you really are better off without her. Do you want to live day-to-day wondering if she is with him (or another guy)? No one needs that kind of daily stress. Tell everyone because then everyone will be keeping their eyes on her. Good luck and peace to you.

My final post on your thread.

We DO know how hard this is. We get how you feel and how scared you are to put your foot down. You are worried that she'll leave. You're worried that your marriage will be over and you'll be facing an uncertain future. We all so know how scary those ideas are.

I just want to remind you of something else to consider. A year from now... FIVE years from now... the one consistency you'll have in your life is YOU. It doesn't matter if you're still married or long divorced. YOU will still have to live with... yourself.

The way you handle these next few weeks and months will go a very long way toward your ability to look yourself in the mirror. Will you look at yourself as someone who says, "I stood up for myself. I showed my kids that their dad isn't going to be bullied by someone who took advantage of her husband. I was strong... for my family and for myself."

Or...

Will you look at yourself in that mirror and recognize that you rolled up like a doormat and begged/pleaded for your cheating wife to pick you over some f'n POS?? Let me tell you - I am 6 years out and fully reconciled - and there is not a SINGLE day that I don't regret having not stood up for myself and been stronger in those early days/weeks. If there was ONE thing I could go back and change it would have been to stop being afraid and lay down firm consequences and boundaries.

Please, don't be me. Don't be so many of us who were too scared to act.

Strength, brother. You can do it.

well kids, im still around.

i still really appreciate all of the tough love.

My IC made me realize that I cannot force her to talk. i cannot force her to stay.

this past weekend, we were in a car together, alone for many hours.

i basically got to the point that i was ok with her leaving and going to stay anywhere else but my house. we had a terrible drive. i told her to leave, i told her i was fine with it. i told her i knew that i would be ok and nothing i could do could change what had happened.

she HATES talking about feelings. she would rather be alone that discuss what she did. it came to that.

i also explained that when she left, she would figure out that all of this was her fault and that i wouldnt take her back. we sat silent for a few hours. then something clicked. between us both.

i knew she'd leave. she knew i wouldnt stop her nor would i let her come back.

i was fine with that outcome, i just knew that i wanted the pain to stop. i explained that her leaving wasnt what i wanted and that i was willing to do anything to avoid it but i couldnt stand the pain and i knew that her leaving was the best thing for me. i said i would hurt, but id get over it, after all i wasnt the bad guy. we were 1000 miles from home and she was captive. i told her that i was going to take her to the nearest airport and send her home so she could get her things and leave before i got home in a few days. i told her that i wasnt going to see or talk to her for at least a month. i honestly wasnt scared. i was fine. i wanted it to end. ultimately, she said that she didnt want to fly home and that she wanted the weekend to continue as planned.

that night, there was a calmness and kindness between us that i hadnt felt in a little bit. it was nice and comforting. we ended up having a very nice weekend. of course, we didnt talk about her affair, but she was acting contrite. shes not the warmest person on the planet, but i could tell she was doing a little more than normal to put forth effort.

she had IC yesterday. last night she told me that she wanted to be married to me, that she was sorry for what she did, would never have further contact and wanted to do all she could to make our marriage work.

it made me feel good. i implemented my version of a tiny 180 and it helped. more than my actions, it was where my head was. i really was ok with her leaving. she was too. as ok as she was with leaving, i think she saw that i was too and that was a little too real.

every day, i have little moments where i still have questions. but i continue to get the answers on my own. it makes me feel like i have some power.

although i know i didnt do what you guys advised, i feel like the collective strength of this board really helped me.

who knows that tomorrow holds and im sure that eery day that passes will be difficult in some way but as time passes, so will the pain and memory.

many of you think im a pussy and that my wife is a cheating whore. youre probably right to some degree on both accounts. BUT, everyones situation is different. advice cannot apply blanketly to every person in every situation.

Will this work out for me? i dont know. i do know that i committed to trying. my wife committed to trying. we've committed to 100% honestly and transparency. we'll see how that works out.

lastly, after her commitment, and right before we went to bed, i told her that if she ever contacted him again or lied to me about his contact or contact with anyone, i would throw her out the front door without asking a question. she said she understood.

Ill be here from time to time. probably not as much as before but ill be here. in time, i hope to be able to share my results, good or bad. once i have perspective on what either worked for me or didnt, i will certainly come back and share.

Thank you all. Dearly. From the bottom of my heart. i wanted to throw myself into traffic and your care and concern talked me down.

my very best to each of you.

T-Pain

she had IC yesterday. last night she told me that she wanted to be married to me, that she was sorry for what she did, would never have further contact and wanted to do all she could to make our marriage work.

So you're clear to chat with her boyfriend's wife.

For obv reasons she is against this 100%. In fact, she said if I did that I should immediately file.

I'm not sure any good could possibly come from it. I don't believe it would do anything at all for me.

Secondly, I don't really care.

Tell the OBS, and if your WW doesn't like it then she needs grow the fuck up, or sign the D papers ASAP.

If she doesn't want to D, then she needs to PROVE it, and that means that she doesn't get to set the boundaries, only live withing yours.

Its time to put your foot down, or just D and get it over with now instead of later...being wishy-washy and indecisive will only push her away faster.

Strength in character and leadership is an attractive trait that you need to develop, NOW, if not for the benefit of your current relationship then for any future ones.

I'm not sure any good could possibly come from it. I don't believe it would do anything at all for me.

Well quite frankly you're wrong. The good that could come is there is a woman out there that possibly has no idea that her husband is a lying cheat that is violating her trust and endangering her health. There would certainly be some good for her to know and more than a little arrogant for you to decide for her what is good for her marriage.

For obv reasons she is against this 100%. In fact, she said if I did that I should immediately file.

Yep, she obviously wants to protect him. And she's telling you that you can either protect her lover or GTFO. nice

Telling the OBS is not for you. It's for HER, so she can know the truth about her life. It's very selfish of you not to tell her.

What is she going to do to - concrete steps? What do you want her to do? How will she become a safe partner?

17 pages of betrayed spouses reaching out to help you,and the one betrayed spouse you can help, you won't. Because it won't help you. Actually, it would help you. If you bothered to read the posts on your thread, you would know telling the other betrayed spouse is the single best thing you can do to make sure NC is maintained. And the woman deserves to know.

You've decided to rugsweep. Your ww has had no consequences. What you have shown her is that she can lie, cheat, and treat you like dog shit, and you will allow it.

If your reconciliation depends on whether you tell his wife, and you conspire with your wife to help her boyfriend keep this secret from his wife, then you're not attempting reconciliation. At all. You're trying to rebuild on a shaky foundation. It won't work. You're trying to stay with a lying cheater, who has done no work on herself.

You've made the mistake of ignoring the fantastic advice you've been given,and decided your wife is a special snowflake. You are wrong. You have opened the door for future ddays.

You won't be able to pretend for long. What she did will eat you alive. And not being allowed to talk about it, because it upsets your cheating wife, will eventually take its toll.

I feel sorry for you.

[This message edited by HellFire at 12:02 PM, July 25th (Tuesday)]

I don't think you are a pussy. I think you were paralyzed with fear and reluctant to stand up for yourself, but it takes balls to come here and ask for advice. That said, I hope you reconsider some of what you are planning, please see below.

The reasons to tell OBS are many, but I'll just give you the Top 2: she deserves the truth (just like you) so that she can make informed decisions about her life and the exposure will drag this shady-ass A into broad daylight where it will hopefully wither and die.

So, your WW's threat to D if you expose is really a non-issue because the A has a high chance of rekindling without exposure (we see it here repeatedly). In that case, per your recent conversation you'd be obligated to kick her out and D anyway. Seems like exposing now will allow you to see how committed your WW is to the M, and save you the time and effort of playing Marriage Cop for the foreseeable future as well as the potential pain of discovering further infidelity down the road.

Good luck!

T-pain

I wanted to start by congratulating you on actually taking some steps toward getting yourself out of infidelity. You finally got to a point where you saw that the future with your cheating spouse in control is not a future at all.

Do you see what happened? She saw you grew a pair and all of a sudden she made a turn. Imagine if you had taken this approach from the start and kicked her out of the house and told everyone about the affair. Perhaps she'd be back with you by now and further down the R road. I think early on I and others said to push her towards him if you want to save the marriage and that's what you finally did.

So again, good job. I know it wasn't easy.

Now, unfortunately that was just one small step toward R. There are many things she is not going to be willing to do. And you are still going to need to be willing to end it if she doesn't follow thru. You are not the one that brought you here. She is. So if she doesn't want To do the hard work there is no point in going any further forward trying.

You need to sit down and have a discussion on what steps need to be done by both of you to make this work.

One is NC. And an NC letter. And openness with her technology.

Another is IC continues for both of you.

Another is you tell the OBS. What are you so scared of. You were willing to end it a few hours ago. So let her go if she says no. She'll be back again. Until she is truly remorseful and cares more about your pain than hers and definitely more than his, there can be no successful R anyway. Don't waste your time.

If the situation were reversed and the OBS knew and the POS OM told her not to tell you what he had done with your wife wouldn't you be pissed off that you lived a lie for years after?

So tell her that is non negotiable.

You can do this. You've already done it. Don't actually believe her when she has had this epiphany. She will stumble again. She call him or pick up when he calls or something and you need to be strong and call her out for it when it happens.

Lastly, 16 pages ago, on your very first page of this thread, I listed for you the characteristics of a remorseful WW. Does she now exhibit all of those? Take a look. If she doesn't she hasn't hit rock bottom yet.

In that very same posting I listed 22 things a remorseful Wayward spouse needs to do in order to gain the gift of reconciliation from her BS.

Read them again. How many has she agreed to so far. I bet less than your fingers on one hand.

My friend you have made great strides the last few days please feel good about that. But the work for both of you is just beginning. Please don't declare Mission Accomplished just yet.

For obv reasons she is against this 100%. In fact, she said if I did that I should immediately file.

she had IC yesterday. last night she told me that she wanted to be married to me, that she was sorry for what she did, would never have further contact and wanted to do all she could to make our marriage work.

For obv reasons she is against this 100%. In fact, she said if I did that I should immediately file.

I'm not sure any good could possibly come from it. I don't believe it would do anything at all for me.

Well, which one is it?

Tell the OBS, and if your WW doesn't like it then she needs grow the fuck up, or sign the D papers ASAP.

This!^^^^^^

She doesn't get to make the rules.

BUT, everyones situation is different. advice cannot apply blanketly to every person in every situation

Well...the thing is...around here...most situations are almost identical...yours included. The way you've handled this so far is very typical...and the way your wife is acting is also typical. In fact...I see a lot of me in you...and a lot of my ex in your WW.

Most recent example below:

hat she was sorry for what she did, would never have further contact and wanted to do all she could to make our marriage work.

...and then:

For obv reasons she is against this 100%. In fact, she said if I did that I should immediately file.

So right out of the gate she is dictating how this R is gonna play out. Right out of the gate she's ready to divorce if you tell boyfriend's wife. She's willing to do "all she can for the marriage"...as long as it suits her...and comes with zero actual consequences. I've also never been fond of doing stuff for "the marriage". The "marriage" isn't the one who had his heart ripped apart...you did. The statement lacks any commitment to you and your pain. I'm nitpicking...but when I read about waywards saying that...it's too impersonal...like fixing a car.

we've committed to 100% honestly and transparency

100% honesty & transparency doesn't mean keeping this dirty secret from the other betrayed spouse.

This looks like pure lip-service and rugsweeping to me.

As an experiment...drop a few more of your "requirements" for R on her...I'm guessing there will be push-back from her on those as well.

[This message edited by Sybo at 1:39 PM, July 25th (Tuesday)]

It really is a good time to test her resolve, and commitment. You TELL her that you HAVE TOLD the OBS (after you do it, so interference is minimized), and see what she DOES, because what she SAYS doesn't matter (she's a liar, remember?).

If I thought my wife would divorce me for helping another person by telling the truth... well, I'd help her pack and then have a slice of pie as the moving van pulled away.

"I must not fear.

Fear is the mind-killer.

Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.

I will face my fear.

I will permit it to pass over me and through me.

And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.

Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

Hey T Pain,

I don't want to pile on here because I think you have enough of that. Pages and pages worth.

I do however want to share a very specific example with you. Someone in my "SI class of 2014" had an extremely similar situation to yours in how you're handling things. His affair sitch was a little different in that his WW was using Ashley Madison for her As. They went for R but one of the conditions his WW put down was for him to not contact the OBS. Like you, he didn't want to contact the OBS for all the same reasons you have listed here. Like you, he was also protecting his WW. Like you, his WW was also using it as a manipulation tool... "If you contact OBS we are getting a divorce". Like you, his thread went on and on with people screaming at him to contact the OBS. His thread built up pages and pages until he started posting in the R section. For months he poured his heart and soul in R.

Until one day, without even posting it here because his WW was a member here at this point, he called the OBS and gave her the evidence as to what was going on. Why did he call the OBS? He could explain it better but from my recollection his conscience got the better of him. Maybe OBS did have the right to know. I think more so what happened is he started to realize that while he may have been in R, his WW was not remorseful. Sure she was teary eyed at getting caught, etc. But she didn't face any real consequences and didn't want to talk about the A. There was a part of him that grew resentful. OM getting away with it with no consequences. I do remember him stating that what really weighed on him is that he realized his WW was putting the OM before him and their marriage by protecting her AP. "If you tell OBS we are getting divorced."

His WW had been NC (no contact) with her AP for a few months. They had delivered an NC message together. He started to get the sense that something was just not right here after a few months. Can you see where this is going?

Without saying a word to anyone, even here on SI, he calls the OBS and gives here the evidence. Within 24 hours his WW comes at him threatening divorce because he told the OBS. His WW was livid saying that it was over. That was it. That was his deal breaker. He realized that if his WW supposedly had no contact the entire time, her AP was blocked from everything, how was it that his WW knew about him telling OBS? His WW shouldn't know that he told OBS right? He flipped the tables on his WW right then and there. Put it right back on her about maintaining NC. Turns out they have a back channel of communication for "emergencies". Yep, he knew he was in false R the entire time since she kept a hidden means of communication right there.

In the end he was the one to file for D in that same week. After trying for months of false R, his WW putting AP before him and the marriage by threatening D if he told OBS.

He is now remarried and a very happy man. He came back a few times with updates but it's been a long time since I've seen him on the boards. I hate to speculate but I'm sure if he sees this thread he would perhaps see a lot of you in himself.

I do want to say this about your emotional and mental abuser, your WW, she is not remorseful. She has put her AP before you, her marriage, and the kids. She is protecting him. She's not protecting you or the family unit. Especially by keeping secrets. Speaking from a lot of experience on the matter, your WW has opened up your family unit to who knows what. Your WW is not remorseful. Not in the least. You are fooling yourself if you can think you can R with someone who is not remorseful.

You are absolutely right though. There are many ways in which your situation can be handled. But know this, your situation is not special. No more than anyone else here. Tell OBS, don't tell OBS, take action, don't take action, doesn't matter to any of us. At the end of the day you have to be the one to live with yourself and your situation.

Your IC says you cannot force her to talk. Can't force her to stay. Very true. But what did your IC say about you? Forget WW and what's going on with her. What is going on with you? How do you feel about your situation with WW? How do you think your situation is going to turn out in the long run? Now what does your gut say about how your situation is going to turn out in the long run?

yop

I can't recall if this has been mentioned in 17 pages of advice but in terms of telling the OBS, I would suggest that one thing that towers over all of this is: the health of the OBS. Every day that goes by that the OBS lives in this false world where she has a faithful husband, she is putting her health at risk.

If for no other reason, I would suggest you consider carefully whether the OBS deserves to know that she may be putting herself in a position to contract a serious STD that may affect her health. For life.

I'm sorry to be grim, but I really think that in light of this there's no real choice to make. If you saw someone drowning in a lake, are you the sort of person who would jump in to save her? Or would you stand on the shore and watch?

I do think it's as simple as that.