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Hi all.

Can you please take a listen to this link.

I'm sure my W knows I am recording her as I told her I was, a couple of weeks ago, when I wasn't.

A poor attempt to get a confession.

Anyway she was in the house, and shortly after msging (ii think) her AP, she opened the front door and went to sit at the dining room table.

(Very odd leaving the front door open during the day?)

Then she got up and went to the front door.

For some reason she started hovering when she closed it.

My question is

1) Are there two sets of footsteps in this clip or one?

2) Can you hear someone walking/running up wha sounds like two steps of our stairs while she is hovering?

3) She then puts the hoover away and runs upstairs herself.

Is this in my head or are there two people in the house?

Thanks a mil

Oh man I'm going crazy :((((((((

[Edit: link removed]

[This message edited by SI Staff at 9:10 AM, September 21st (Thursday)]

Richard,

As others have said, you need to get a few VARs (Voice Activated Recorders), and put them in rooms where your wife and the neighbour might be. These can help you get more insight into what is going on at your place during the day. And yes, one of the places should be the bedroom.

You can also get hold of relatively inexpensive motion-activated cameras that look like clock radios, or just small digital clocks. You can find them on Amazon, but if you do a Google search for them, you will find them very easily.

Is it possible for you to install a home-security system - you are perfectly justified to do that, who could argue with it? - that will cover your front door, to record comings and goings?

People have also suggested hiring a private eye. Maybe that would be an idea; have somebody watching the house during the day, to log comings and goings, and you can then ask your wife if the guy came over. If she says no, and the PI says yes, there's an issue. Also, if you talk to a PI, they can advise you about how to get evidence.

The point with evidence is that it clears up the unknown, and it is the unknown that is really bothering you. Like I say, I really think you need a few VARs around the house, in rooms where something might happen, and investing in a few little motion-activated cameras would not be a bad idea either.

I know you are like a cat on a hot tin roof, but you need to stay quiet about what you are doing in terms of recording, filming, and surveillance. It seems obvious that your wife is not going to suddenly 'come clean', if - and it is still an 'if' - something is going on.

The point about your recent 'stairs' recording is that it would be better if you had a recording from upstairs, from whichever room your wife was running to.

Also, I think you yourself could start dropping in unexpectedly more often, if that is possible. Do you have any friends who are local and whom you could ask to call round during the day?

As I say, contacting a PI would be a good idea, because they can provide all kinds of advice about gathering evidence, as well as providing independent evidence in terms of photos and recording times of visits.

I think you are wrapping yourself up in circles with shreds of 'evidence' that may or may not be something. Certainly you don't have anything that she can't defend, and she may be defending it because she is innocent.

As a host of people here will testify, the situation is very complex. On the one hand a WS will say or do anything to squirm out of the truth and will also text/contact an AP anywhere, anytime, anyplace. Forget about a moral code, with a WS that's long gone. Your gut instinct is clearly telling you something is awry and many of us on this site were guilty of ignoring those feelings for too long.

On the other, you may be allowing insecurity to eat away at rationality. As someone else said, you've been quick to put significance on negatives and brush over positives/lack of evidence. You're completely lacking an 'ah ha' moment, hopefully for good reason, because there isn't one!

So at the moment I think we're all in the same position as you, unsure. And the stakes are very high to act on 'unsure'.

For me you need to step back and tackle this two ways.

First, yes do some covert VAR stuff in the car and house and maybe engineer a couple of random returns home at unexpected times (although don't make anything of it). Hopefully this will yield nothing but of course if you only take the vigilance route then also nothing in your relationship will be resolved.

Second, I would say it's time to get proactive. Her relationship with this guy does sound too cosy but whatever it is, if it's making you unhappy then it needs to be notched way down. So tell her - in non-accusational (because you don't have evidence with which to go on the attack) but direct terms - that it's really upsetting you and you would like her to distance herself from him. That should come with definable rules - off WhatsApp and texting with him with immediate and complete effect and no unaccompanied visits by either to either house for starters. These are not unreasonable and if she kicks up a fuss then 1. It's a bad sign; 2. She's putting connection with him above your happiness.

On the assumption that you are not a controlling person and haven't ever asked her to do anything like this before, it's a perfectly valid request.

But also you need to reignite your M, start doing some fun stuff, or even see a MC if you feel the relationship has serious issues (apart from this guy).

One way WS justify the unjustifiable is to demonise their M relationship. So everything is wrong, they pick fights, you can't do anything right. That way it's 'understandable' that they look elsewhere. While you're waiting for evidence - or no evidence - to determine what has likely happened, you may have a chance to intervene. And you don't have anything to lose.

But don't 'nice' her, just inject some effort back into the relationship and get yourselves out of any rut you may be in.

Of all the stories I have read, your one is the most inconclusive and I think all of us on this board are searching in the dark for the right advice.

If I were to hazard a guess - and that's all it is - I would say it's 50/50 as to whether something has happened but the over-cosy relationship makes it 75/25 that something could happen in the future, whether it be an EA or PA. It might even be an early EA right now.

So at this moment you can take positive steps. It's going to take a lot of mental strength but you've got us to download to. There's a lot of people on here happy to soak up the paranoia and worry so that you don't sink your M with it.

We're all hoping you're just one crazy, paranoid guy who has go themselves worked up over nothing. Obviously that may come with its own issues to resolve(!) but at least that's in your hands and you sound self-aware enough to handle that.

Good luck.

In response to your sound bite that you were eager for opinion on. I really can't make out much from that, not even with your leading questions. You have given her a heads up. Like someone said, you need to try keep it together and get actual evidence.

That said, I never really got actual evidence, it was just a terrible sense that something was off (gut) and little bits of suspicious activity. WS's, like many have said, are very, very good at lying and protecting themselves. My W was and probably still is an expert, scary thought.

Biggest item for me was her phone, it was her life buddy, never left her side. I have realised that the likes of WhatsApp and FB Messenger are the root of all evil.

Anyway, you have ruffled the nest, so if something is going on, she will be on high alert, you need the waters to calm down to find evidence. I however know how you are feeling and calm is probably not something you can do right now.

The other negative is that she is now, whether innocent or guilty, in the rightful position to tell you to back off, you are driving her nuts. If innocent, you are going to push her away, delicate balance.

I am not to sure the poly was a good thing. Those questions don't leave me feeling warm and fuzzy.

I am still not convinced of guilt or innocence, but gut feel should never be ignored, you need to follow it up.

I didn't listen to the sound byte. My guess is that if you and others on this thread are confused she could easily explain away what was going on...and you wouldn't have any believable evidence.

I have to say that her replies to your questions are what an innocent person would say. If my husband was paranoid about someone and threw questions at me about our relationship I'd answer the same way she is (I'm not having an affair). I'd agree to a ploy just to be done with it...and if he still didn't believe me after I'd done and said everything it would start to grate on me too.

The what's up app could all be on him. He signs on whenever he sees her. Also, your gut seems to think there is something going on.

There maybe, but you don't have enough/any evidence as of now. Throwing out lies..."I'm recording you" or too many convoluted stories... I'll believe you if you take a poly... you passed the poly but I don't believe you because it was fixed... are going to kill your marriage even if there isn't an affair.

Have you considered IC? I'm not saying it's all in your head. Again, she could be having an affair. I'm just not seeing you be able to let this go until you have proof that she IS having an affair....and if she's not... I'm sure you will ever feel safe.

Thanks again to all.

So she is away with her parents which is verified.

And today 3 times they have bith been online within 2 mintes.

He has only been online the 3 times her 6 times.

Si again the chances are minute.

She has agreed to anothe LDT.

Is this all in my head.

Can it be coincidence?

Is anyone a statistician?

Thx

Rich

Hi Richard,

There are a few ways to approach this, as so much is unknown.

1. Use proven methods to gather evidence. VARs in a few 'key' places in the house will help. The disguised cameras can also help. A PI can help. A home security system that records activity in terms of people entering and exiting can help.

2. A polygraph can be useful, just as long as you are prepared to accept the results if they show nothing is going on. However, do not underestimate the effect of repeatedly asking a person to take a poly, particularly if they are not guilty.

3. Discuss the situation with your wife not in an accusatory way, but from the angle of your not being happy that the neighbour is spending so much time visiting and contacting your wife. That is not unreasonable. What you absolutely must avoid doing is making hard accusations without having any evidence to support them. We can all get those 'gut' feelings, but what we really need to do is get verification to back them up. It is good that you are not ignoring your feelings, but please do not let them run away with you.

4. Keep your surveillance activities secret. Do not reveal what you are doing, and definitely do not make any false statements, as you did when you said you were recording her when you weren't. I know exactly why you did that; you feel like the situation is getting out of control, and you wanted to exert some control over it. In fact, all you did was tip her off to be careful at home (if she is cheating), or make her feel like Big Brother is watching her (if she is innocent). And what if she had called your bluff and asked to listen to the recordings you claimed to have made? It is a bit of a mantra in this forum that people should never make threats they are not prepared to go through with, or lay down rules they are not prepared to enforce, because they can come off looking pretty hollow or powerless if their bluff is called and they do nothing.

5. As others have said, work on the marriage, and connecting with your wife. You could try getting copies of "The Five Love Languages" and read them together, and discuss what you think about it. The book is all about improving communication and what we need our partner to do so we feel loved, so it could kickstart some better communication between you. Can you get her parents or your parents to watch the kids while you have some weekend breaks with her, to interact in new locations, away from home, and hopefully without these suspicions hanging over both of you?

6. Ask your wife what she believes in the nature of her relationship with the guy, and whether or not she thinks it is becoming too important in her life or having an adverse impact on the marriage. Unfortunately, friendships can develop into emotional affairs, and those can eventually turn physical, but the process can happen so slowly that people do not realise it is happening.

In response to another thread, I posted some information I found online about how to differentiate a friendship from an emotional affair. I am posting it here not because I think your wife is having an EA, but because it may be useful in clarifying where the boundaries lie.

I also think that you need to make your stance clear to your wife. Tell her that you love and value her, and love and value your marriage to her, and that you want to protect it from any intrusions that could have an adverse impact on it. It is important to communicate your love to her, so neither of you loses sight of why you got together in the first place.

You say she is with her parents. Is she alright, or has she gone because the atmosphere of suspicion is getting a bit too much for her? You need to remind yourself that she may not be doing anything wrong, and that she may be starting to suffer if she is innocent but being treated like she is guilty. Ask her how she is, and please do watch out for signs that this is having a bad effect on her. In looking for evidence, or going with your gut feelings, do not lose sight of the fact that you love her, and you do not want to maker her ill through this. Remind yourself regularly why you love her.

As I say, I am posting this info on EAs not because I think your wife is having one, but because it may help to clarify the differences between EAs and friendships.

In the original thread, I suggested to the poster that he could print the information out and let his wife read it, or discuss it with her. That might be an option for you, as long as you explain that you are doing it not because you KNOW she is in an EA, but because you fear the impact an EA could have on the marriage, and you want to discuss it with her in case there is any potential for that to happen with her and the neighbour.

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CAN YOU TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN EMOTIONAL AFFAIR VS. FRIENDSHIP?

Which is worse? A physical affair or an emotional affair? Do you know the difference? A physical affair is mainly a physical thing. You had sex and now you can really walk away and it meant nothing (well it meant something, but this type of affair is easy for men to partake in).

An emotional affair is when your heart and mind gets involved. It’s dangerous because once the mind is gone – the body will follow. Many times people who haven’t had sex with their ‘so called friend’ don’t realize just how connected to this ‘friend’ they have become.

Below are some major differences between what a “Friend” is vs. the components of what an “Emotional Affair” really is:

Friendship:

1. You love your friend and you can do anything for him, but one thing you cannot do; you cannot imagine having sex with him. At the very least, if you close your eyes and imagine having sex with your friend…you don’t get turned on. (Okay some friends are good looking and you CAN imagine having sex with him… but you just don’t).

2. You don’t share details of your relationship especially its troubles to your significant friend. Those are just for the same-sex support group.

3. You look forward to catching up with your friend socially, but you don’t keep wanting to see him when you’re with your partner.

4. Your partner knows about your friend, also knows when you are actually catching up with your friend.

5. Your partner supports your friendship with your friend.

6. You don’t daydream and fantasize about your friend a lot.

7. You don’t tend to hide your not-so-good side from your friend.

8. There are more things that your partner knows that your friend doesn’t know of.

9. You don’t think twice to set your friend up with someone, and you feel happy when you see your friend go on dates.

10. You smile when you think about your friend getting married.

Emotional Affair:

1. There’s some sort of chemistry attraction developed – even subconsciously. You wonder how it is to kiss your friend or to touch him. You imagine having sex with him.

2. You share details of your relationship to your friend. In fact, you love sharing your trouble and you love it when your friend listens to you so well.

3. You look forward to catching up with your friend even when you are with your partner. You think of your friend sometimes when in the middle of your supposedly romantic night with your partner.

4. Your friend’s name comes up way too often in conversations.

5. You hide some information about your friendship from your partner. You lie when asked for information on how you two spent your time together.

6. You find yourself saying the magic phrase ‘But we are just friends’ on many occasions.

7. Your friend knows more intimate things about you compared to your partner.

8. You day dream about your friend a lot.

9. Your partner is unsupportive of your friendship. Somehow this friend of yours bothers your partner.

10. You are jealous towards your friend’s date. You secretly hope he/she will stay together with you, rather than finding their true love.

We are all subject to an emotional affair, and knowing your vulnerability against it, is actually a good thing. Attraction is not a choice, but cheating definitely is a choice. If you find yourself starting to get trapped into an emotional affair situation, make a considerable effort to get out of it.

Do you think it’s a major difference between a physical and emotional affair?

Comments

Kimberly T.· Memphis, Tennessee Feb 12, 2016 7:16pm

I knew I wasn't crazy when my bf was having an emotional affair with my bestie. She didn't want him, but he wanted her. She was always such a big flirt which didn't help the situation.

When I confronted them, they made me feel crazy because they weren't sexually involved. She liked the attention and he liked her. Good riddance to both of them. So glad I am moving on and not looking back to either one of them!

Greg P.·Irvine, California Oct 4, 2016 10:34am

Just found out my fiancée of 3 years was having a emotional relationship with a co worker. Every time I asked her about this friend she would tell me he is just a colleague!

But they went to lunch together every day because I am in the states she is in Singapore.

They went to China on a business trip, she never had time to talk to me while she was there because she was out with her friend. I asked her where her ring was, she raised her right hand instead of her left!!! They both set me up so that she can break up w me. Then 3 hours later, they had sex in every form. I did nothing wrong but I told her to stop! She lied to me for over 6 months because she LOVES the attention she received from this guy and now my life is in shambles, because I have to pick up the pieces and try to start over.

This friend told my fiancée that is was a challenge to get you away from your boyfriend. She still thinks she did nothing wrong!

People, don't hurt your partner, work it out because it is NOT worth the pain

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What is the difference between a friendship and an emotional affair?

"But we are just friends…"

Friendships are important, but…

Ed Cunningham said; “Friends are those rare people who ask how we are and then wait to hear the answer”.

There are no two ways about it; friendship is an important part of human life. We need meaningful connections with other people in order to feel secure, to feel happy, accepted, loved and understood. Friendships can be one of the biggest joys in life. Even married people need friendships outside of the marriage relationship!

But, what if a friendship becomes a real problem in your relationship?

In our practice, we often have to deal with couples who are in complete disagreement regarding the role that a certain friend of one of the spouses plays in his/her live. In most cases, this is a friendship that has grown over time and includes two people of opposite genders.

The spouse, who is in the friendship with the 3rd party, would respond: “but we are just friends” and might in many cases honestly believe this statement. However, that doesn't mean that this friendship is not problematic. The mere fact that this relationship between you and a friend is causing your partner to feel uncomfortable already creates an issue. But does the fault lie with your partner or with your friendship.

Many clients have either never heard of the term “emotional affair, or have never even considered the term remotely applicable with regards to this specific friendship that they have formed.

So how would you know whether or not this friendship is actually an emotional affair or just plainly a platonic friendship?

Emotional affair vs friendship

One of the first things that differentiate a friendship from an emotional affair is secrecy. Now, before you think you're off the hook here; let’s just explore this a little further. Your spouse might very well know of the friendship, the coffee dates and the times spent together – no secret there; but are you keeping certain conversations or details secret? If your spouse were to sit at another table; watching the two of you, overhearing your conversation, would you be comfortable with him/her witnessing your mannerisms, the length of eye contact or touching, the tone of your voice…if not, then secrecy is very definitely forming a part of this friendship.

The next aspects are daydreaming or fantasising. Are you daydreaming about spending more time with your friend? It is important to note; these little fantasy scenarios do not necessarily have to be sexual in nature…all this means is that your time with your friend is gaining importance and that even time that you are not spending with this person, is becoming time and energy spent on this person.

This brings us to the next one; alone time. Are you actively creating reasons for you and this friend to be alone? Do you feel that other friends or your spouse is getting in the way of time alone with your friend? Note again, you guys might not be fooling around when you are alone, you might not even be thinking in that direction…yet. But spending time with your friend, alone, just the two of you is a priority for you. Ask yourself – are you going to as much effort to create alone time between you and your spouse?

Emotional support and companionship are our next topics of discussion. There is nothing wrong with being there for a friend in good and or bad times, but if your friend is becoming your primary source for emotional support and companionship; red lights should definitely be going off for you. This is the role that we as partners should be fulfilling for one another. Another helpful tip is to ask yourself the following; if something good or bad happens in your life, who is the first person you would like to share this information with…your partner or this friend?

Another aspect that distinguishes a friendship from an emotional affair is sexual attraction or chemistry. We will definitely meet people in our lives that we are attracted to – that’s the way we were created. If you are, however, sexually attracted to this friend, you are playing with fire. The whole “trying to ignore it”, or “trying to pretend it’s not there” just makes it worse and more intense. This is probably not the safest friend to have…

Put all, or even just some of these together, and you could be guaranteed that this friendship is not what you think it is. You are in dangerous territory. And yes it might not be completely there yet, but be warned; it is almost certain that it will end up there.

In closing:

It is easy for a platonic friendship to evolve into an emotional affair.

All it takes is time, emotional investment and a little denial.

Make sure that you and your spouse have very clearly defined boundaries when it comes to friendships and stick to these and respect them.

Talk about these boundaries with your spouse often and really be honest with yourself when doing a little introspection regarding friendships in your life.

Don't be caught off guard - that little voice in your head; whispering that this could be trouble; should be listened to!

Don't justify this relationship or the time spent, or the thoughts involving this person.

Break the secrecy, break the emotional investment and keep your relationship safe.

Comments:

Hansel P., 2 years ago

This article is definitely thumbs up. I do agree that a platonic relation soon can turn into an emotional affair if boundaries are not clear marked. Denial stems from an unconscious agreement deep within that the relation has crossed the boundary, yet the comfort and satisfaction that we derive from such relation makes us turn a blind eye to any warning signals our rational mind presents to us.

Elspeth, a year ago

This rings so true for my situation. My partner (37) of 15yrs (and then husband for nearly 2yrs) employed a 17 yr old girl to "work" for him 6 mths ago, (he works alone til this long) but took her on based on her being depressed and ?anorexic. (He has suffered depression too and wanted to help her.)

I knew straight away it was strange but he said she'll be good for business so I tried to support that. Long story short he has chosen their short "friendship" over 17 yrs with me and our 2 beautiful children (10/12). They have become inseparable and he blames me for not accepting the friendship for pushing them closer together.

As I predicted she has fallen for him, (admitted to me by tx) but he claims this is under control. He is now leaving me and blames me for not trusting him. But meeting for dog walks, coming home late, eating out, paying for everything for her (on top of her wages), "work weekends away" camping with family not invited, hiding phone, deleting tx etc etc- but it's all my fault.

I feel devastated, as do our children.

She is a juvenile young girl - I am the mother of his children and the only person who has supported him, both emotional and financially since we've been tog (his family don't bother with him). He's giving it all up for her- I just don't understand how it got to this.

Alex Kingston, 2 years ago

I've been with my boyfriend for three years. The one major pang in our relationship, has been his close friend, Kati. She was never very welcoming to me. Kati has a boyfriend, but can't seem to get enough of mine. She viewed me as a threat, I believe. Instead of talking to her, I cooked her dinner and tried to me her friend. When things got more tense, I did try to talk with her face to face, but she always made excuses. Incredibly long story short, 3 years later my boyfriend and I are still fighting about her and everything that went down. It's pathetic, I know. I feel angry, embarrassed when I think of all the fighting. Angry at him for not calling her out, angry at myself for not letting it go, and just overall embarrassed. I feel like I have this wound that will never close. It's super lame, and he thinks that I am being ridiculous. I can't help but wonder if he had this deep emotional connection to her and that's why we always fight. I don't know, I'm so desperate to not feel shitty anymore.

Alex K., 4 months ago

Ugh. Whatever happened in this case? He should have respected the fact that you were uncomfortable.

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What You Need to Know About Emotional Affairs

An emotional affair generally starts innocently enough as a friendship.

Here's information about what an emotional affair is, how an emotional affair differs from a platonic friendship, warning signs of an emotional affair, how to protect yourself from an emotional affair, etc.

Through investing emotional energy and time with one another outside the marital relationship, the former platonic friendship can begin to form a strong emotional bond which hurts the intimacy of the spousal relationship.

While there are those who believe that an emotional affair is harmless, most marriage experts view an emotional affair as cheating without having a sexual relationship.

Emotional affairs are often gateway affairs leading to full blown sexual infidelity.

For some individuals, the most hurtful and painful consequences of an emotional affair is the sense of being deceived, betrayed, and lied to. Any part of one's life that is essentially kept a secret from a partner is dangerous to the trust between spouses.

What is an Emotional Affair?

An emotional affair is when a person not only invests more of their emotional energy outside their marriage, but also receives emotional support and companionship from the new relationship. In an emotional affair, a person feels closer to the other party and may experience increasing sexual tension or chemistry.

If you believe that a person's emotional energy is limited, and if your spouse is sharing intimate thoughts and feelings with someone else, an emotional affair has developed.

Although cheaters are often guilt-free in an emotional affair because there is no sex involved, their spouses often view an emotional affair as damaging as a sexual affair.

Much of the pain and hurt from an emotional affair is due to the deception, lies, and feelings of being betrayed.

How is an Emotional Affair Different from a Platonic Friendship?

A platonic friendship can evolve into an emotional affair when the investment of intimate information crosses the boundaries set by the married couple.

An emotional affair is opening a door that should remain closed.

One of the differences between a platonic friendship and an emotional affair is that an emotional affair is kept secret.

Another key difference is that people involved in an emotional affair often feel a sexual attraction for one another.

Sometimes the sexual attraction is acknowledged and sometimes it isn't.

Comments From the Marriage Forum on Emotional Affairs

Members on our previous marriage forums have been discussing emotional affairs. Here are some of the comments from the threads.

~~ From B.: "It's a relationship with a member of the opposite sex where you wouldn't feel comfortable with your spouse knowing all the details."

~~ From J.: "It's a term I might use to describe an extra-marital or an 'extra-committed' relationship that has not escalated to physical sex."

Warning Signs That You May be Having an Emotional Affair

Here are several warning signs that you may be having an emotional affair:

1. You are withdrawing from your spouse.

2. You are preoccupied and daydream about your friend more and more.

3. You are not interested in being intimate with your spouse, either emotionally or sexually.

4. The amount of time you and your spouse spend together is less.

5. When confronted about the apparent emotional affair, you respond, "We're just friends."

6. You find yourself anticipating when you can communicate or be with your friend again. Alone time together is important to you.

7. You are sharing your thoughts, feelings, and problems with your friend instead of your spouse.

8. You find reasons to give your friend personal gifts.

9. Your friend seems to understand you better than your spouse does.

10. You are keeping your friendship a secret from your spouse.

Quiz - Are You Having an Emotional Affair?

If you answer "yes" to more than 3 of these questions, you are courting disaster in your marriage by being in an emotional affair.

1. Are you experiencing repetitive hostility and conflict in your marriage?

2. Do you feel an emotional distance from your spouse?

3. Do you find it difficult to talk with your spouse?

4. Are you sharing more with your friend than you are with your spouse?

5. Do you think your friend understands you better than your spouse?

6. Are you sexually attracted to your friend?

7. Is the phrase, "We're just friends" your rationalization for your close friendship?

8. Does your spouse know about your friendship or is your friendship a secret?

9. Do you look forward to being with your friend more than being with your spouse?

10. When you talk to your spouse about your day, you never seem to mention your interactions with this friend.

Signs Your Spouse is Having an Emotional Affair

Here are some warning signs that your spouse be having an emotional affair:

1. Your spouse starts withdrawing from you or criticizing you.

2. Your spouse acts secretive or hides their phone, shuts down the computer screen suddenly when you are around.

3. Your spouse seems interested in certain technology or hobbies seemingly out of the blue.

4. Your spouse seems to always work extra hours on a "project" with this friend.

5. This friend of your spouse gets mentioned a lot. You seem to hear much about this persons opinions (and yours seems to count less and less).

6. Your gut tells you something is going on. You are normally trusting and do not get jealous easily, but this definitely feels "off" to you.

7. When you try to discuss any of these things with your partner, it is met with defensiveness or you are made to feel crazy.

Differing Views on How to Protect Your Marriage From an Emotional Affair

Although there are differing views on how to protect your marriage from being hurt by an emotional affair, we think your marriage is best protected from an emotional affair by the two of you working together to have a marriage built on a strong foundation of friendship and trust.

Some may agree or disagree with the often made suggestion to limit your interpersonal relationships or friendships.

In M.Gary Neuman's book, Emotional Infidelity: How to Affair-Proof Your Marriage and 10 Other Secrets to a Great Relationship, he makes some controversial statements: "Insulate and protect your marriage against emotional infidelity by avoiding friendships with members of the opposite sex."

Neuman believes that limiting your relationships/friendships is "the single most important thing you can do for your marriage."

One of the reasons some people question this suggestion to limit certain friendships is because it can create a sense of isolation for a couples. Isolating a spouse from friendships is one of the warning signs of emotional abuse. A spouse does not have exclusive, 100 percent rights over a mate's friendships, interests, and sense of space and privacy.

Neuman's other suggestions for protecting your marriage from an emotional affair more acceptable and include:

- Touching each other five times a day.

- Have a weekly date.

- Have a long discussion with one another four times a week.

- Plan an all-out romantic lovemaking night once a month.

Affair-proofing Your Marriage

You can affair-proof your marriage by working together to have a relationship based on friendship and trust.

Here are some suggestions on how to build that foundation and keys to protecting your marriage from an emotional affair.

- Plan on living a balanced life with one another.

- Have dates with each other and create ways to have fun together.

- Don't let irritations build up. Learn how to have healthy conflict in your marriage.

- Communicate on a daily basis with each other. Talk about practical issues, plans, events, and personal feelings. The little things to talk about are as important as the bigger issues.

- Be supportive of one another.

- Show respect and mutuality for each other.

- Always try to repair hurts quickly and genuinely. An apology goes much further than trying to be right.

Quotes About Emotional Affairs

Marriage experts generally agree that an emotional affair is harmful to a marriage. Here are some quotes from marriage experts studying the impact of infidelity on marriage.

"The new infidelity is between people who unwittingly form deep, passionate connections before realizing that they've crossed the line from platonic friendship into romantic love. Infidelity is any emotional or sexual intimacy that violates trust." Source: Shirley Glass, author of "Not Just Friends: Protect Your Relationship from Infidelity and Heal the Trauma of Betrayal"

"It’s easy to deny the seriousness of an emotional affair — but it can be extremely threatening to a marriage." Source: Dr. Gail Saltz on MSNBC

"If there is ongoing interaction with someone with whom you have been very honest in sharing your deepest thoughts and feelings, this can generate a feeling of closeness that stimulates even more sharing—and more closeness, and on and on. Eventually, this relationship can become extremely close and an emotional attachment develops, causing serious damage to the marriage—whether or not it ever becomes "sexual." Source: DearPeggy.com

"Emotional affairs are not any less hurtful than physical affairs. Actually, they pose much more threat to your marriage than a physical betrayal." Source: Lisa Penn on YourTango.com

Many thanks for this. I think is undoubtedly what it is at the least.

I will print and go through this. Very helpful indeed thank you.

Again today they are on whatsApp at the same time 3 times already (these are the only time he Is online).

Can someone please tell me if this could be some ridiculous coincidence, or do you all think there is no doubt they are communicating.

Over 2 weeks of him being online say some 30 times for 27-28 of those they are within 10 minutes of each other, and probably 25 of those it is within 3 minutes of each other.

She is online varying from 4 times and hour to not at all for 3 hours but usually c. 10-12 times a day.

Could it be a coincidence.This is the only factor I need to get my head around.

Thanks again!

Are they on a pre-arranged schedule? In other words are they at the same time every day? Otherwise, I might suspect she has a burner phone.

And no, it is not a coincidence they are online at the same time.

Occam's razor.

As I mention previously, you need to start tracking their schedule and see if you can figure out what's going on. Is it the same time every day? Could you be misreading the app? Have you tested it to be sure your are reading correctly?

Does her phone give off a notification when she gets a message?

Thanks 545

Are they on a pre-arranged schedule? In other words are they at the same time every day?

-No different times.

Otherwise, I might suspect she has a burner phone.

- As did I when she was oddly on a stool in the top cupboard twice staring at a childs toy for 5 minutes she was considering as a gift. Same next day as well.

But I don’t think she uses it now as I said I had a device that could find other phones in the house. I know I'm stupid. I won’t do that anymore!!!

During the 2 days I suspected she had another phone (weekend before last) I stopped checking her real phone. But everytime (3 times) I went out or she made me run an errand up he popped online.

And no, it is not a coincidence they are online at the same time.

Is this definite?

And if they are, considering my state (breaking down - I really can’t cope) if it was just an EA would she keep doing it, or would it be a PA and possibly a Love Affair?

Twisted.

Thx

I blocked him on WA on her phone, so she would have to unblock him when I'm out of sight, so no doubt she would mute him at the same time.

Richard

I’m a former cop and my advice is going to be partially based on my understanding of human behavior and investigations, and partially based on my mistakes and experiences when I suspected my wife of having an affair.

Slight background: Years ago, I walked in on my then-fiancé having sex with someone other than me. I thought I fully recovered and eventually married the woman I fell in love with 18 months later. About +10 years into that marriage I nearly wrecked it due to my insistence that she was cheating. I wasn’t as blatant as you are – I never directly accused her – but I did all the investigative stuff and it nearly drove me crazy. Like you I was questioning if that thumping I recorded was OM walking up the steps or if it was my dog wagging its tail. Eventually I realized that although there were issues in our marriage infidelity was not one of them. Part of the issues was the latent PTSD I was suffering, partially from some issues I witnessed as a cop but mainly from the infidelity. I got help from that and then actively worked at creating the marriage I wanted.

All the stuff you share… None of it is conclusive. The sound-clip doesn’t tell us anything. The online activity could all be coincidence. If I list what you share and group what indicates infidelity and what indicates no infidelity the no infidelity has more weight.

But…

I think me telling you this won’t assure you. It won’t solve the problem. So, I’m going to suggest some action.

First: If she’s having an affair then her having an affair for 2 more months won’t kill you.

IF there is an affair and with you having voiced your suspicions it’s deep and it’s hidden. Your constant suspicion and confrontation has warned her. She’s like a cat in a room of rocker-chairs. If there is an affair it’s gone deep. If there is an affair he won’t forget his boxers again, she won’t be openly messaging him with you in the room. If there is an affair you won’t catch it now.

So, lay off the confrontation. Heck… even tell her you are sorry. Do ALL you can to make her drop her guard.

IF there is an affair and IF it’s been going on for some time then it will restart. She won’t completely quit simply because you are suspicious. But it will be deep. They might keep away from each other. For now, … But once she feels safe enough her guard will drop. Or OM will call.

So, ease off. Stop displaying your concern. Fake it if needed. Lay off. Don’t do anything for a week or two.

Then remember what I told you in my first post: They need to communicate. Even then they need to meet. Use the suggested tools (VAR, mobile phone with location service etc.) to get some conclusion to your suspicions. You THINK OM might have run up those steps: place one VAR upstairs.

Heck… You can easily find online guides on how to hack WhatsApp accounts…

Only remember: IF you don’t get any incriminating evidence it’s probably because nothing is going on.

Richard - I know you are stuck on this What's App business and I'm not really sure what they are up to, but here is my 2 cents.

A sends message to B. A shows as online due to sending message. B gets alert on phone and goes to What's App to see the message thus showing online. I don't think it is coincidence. I think it is how the app works and how people interact with the app.

Thanks Both.

Great points. I'm just really struggling to hold things in and be normal when I feel like there is a very high chance that my life is being torn apart, and the person who I thought was the most caring person in the world could actually be one of the most heartless.

I will try my best to be normal and do some covert surveillance and if nothing is found, move on.

I'm sure they are in contact on Whatsapp though. It can’t be conincidence. Which means it must be at least an EA, or she wouldn’t be contacting him knowing that I can see. Every time I ask she continually says it's coincidence.

In fact today after I said it again, she has been online a silly amount of times (despite being on an activity holiday with her parents and the kids). Clearly to make me think she's always online and it’s coincidence. She is never online this much even when at home alone.

If they were just mates she wouldn’t contact him. So if she is having an EA then it must be deep or she wouldn’t do it. Which means it's probably PA too?

This is the hardest thing I have ever had to deal with.

I think I might just leave. I can’t do it anymore. I am broken I every way.

She did say we can do a LDT at a place of my choosing and I can keep it quiet until we actually go. So maybe there is hope.

She said I can actually ask if she has contacted him platonically as well.

Can you tell me how accurate they actually are and if you can do things to help pass them. I spoke to a PI who said they are worthless.

The night before the first one the W was concerningly sleepy at 9/9.30pm and couldn’t keep here eyes open. Do sedatives actually work to help pass the tests, and would she need to take them the night before a lunchtime test or on the day. She would have access to them via family.

I can’t make her do one if I'm going to think she has done things to counter it. Totally not fair.

Thanks again

despite being on an activity holiday with her parents and the kids

Do you know his whereabouts?

Have you talked to his wife? Do you know her? I think it may be time to get her opinion and concerns.

I don’t think you’re being paranoid, there’s something going on, it may not be infidelity, but it has to stop. You have every right to put your foot down regarding this issue-it is wildly inappropriate to have a man over during the day when you’re not home. This type of intimate relationship will only lead to destruction. Your feelings are just as important and it wouldn’t be out of line to speak with your neighbor, telling him that he is not allowed in your house while you are gone, you feel uncomfortable etc. I think you both would benefit from couple’s counseling as well, as I said, it may not be infidelity, but there is something wrong with your relationship, would you agree? You have to stop all the snooping though, for your own sanity and I would definitely go to couples, group, or individual counseling…couples would be great because she could be told by an outsider just how wrong this behavior is, she may be thinking this is nothing but an innocent friendship, well, he may be courting her and waiting for the right time and she needs to realize the dangers here.

Bottom line, somethings wrong with your relationship, counseling, reestablish your boundaries with the neighbor and you could even tell him how it’s being perceived etc. What do you think?

Sounds good.

Thank you.

Again tonight they have been online at the same time twice.

It's killing me. Every time I ask she says it's not happening.

He even came over tonight asking for my daughters homework. I said I'd get my wife to send me a photo and I'd whatsap him.

It took him 30 mins to read and he sent me a text saying don't worry he found it. I said I;d replied already. he then whatsapped me back saying he needs to get to grips with this new social media?!?!

I mean WTF?

It spun me right out!!

He even came over tonight asking for my daughters homework.

Why does he need this?, you need to explain that.

I think you need to start asking his wife some questions.

I said I'd get my wife to send me a photo and I'd whatsap him.

I am assuming something about the homework, or were you being a smartass? hah!

Could this just be a nosey neighbor type? Did he know she was out of town?