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I've read other WWs say that as well. For some of them it wasn't about the sex but about the attention and the ego boost they were getting. For some the sex was great. My wife told me that the AP was a better lover. She later took it back but to be honest I don't believe her. Here is a little bit of TMI but she told me that I am the only one to ever make her have an orgasm with vaginal sex. Her APs could achieve that orally so maybe there is some truth to what she is saying. But I just don't believe I am the only one. I think it was said to try and boost my ego and make be feel better about myself at the time. It didn't work.

The who was better at sex theme is just another variation of the "pick me" dance. Who cares? All sex is great. As Woody Allen once said, "I've never had a bad orgasm". Of course the sex was great and of course it was different, because if you change one of the two people involved, a different kind of sex emerges. Plus, people in affairs show up in different ways.

So what?

This also means that your married sex was, is and will be great. It's not a competition. That mind set will only lead to trouble, insecurity and jealousy.

My point is, reconciling with you former wayward should have nothing to do with comparing who was better in the sack. It's about emotional connection. If you have that, there's no limit to how great the sex can and will be. You can experiment. Make it more romantic or kinky or both. Never do it the same way twice or do it different every time. Up to you.

It is a known fact that breaking taboos will introduce more dopamine into the equation, but that is because of the context not the individual person AP they were with.

This means of WE were to become someone's AP we would SEEM to be more exciting because of the new context we were in.

Don't get caught up in that.

Healthy people don't need to break taboos and be in an affair to have sex be spectacular. It just takes two people who care enough about each other to want to make it special.

Personally, I recommend studying tantric yoga and kundalini if you really want to take it up to the next level. Make the past pale in comparison to what you have now. That goes with any partner. Don't let the past haunt you by idealizing it and putting it up on some pedestal. Make your mind work on creating the new and tell it to forget those fake mind movies. This takes persistence. But it can be done.

I see the issue of what the WS did with the AP raised a lot here. Do people generally think it is wise or helpful to get that info?

I am torn. Obviously, it is something that goes through my mind... a lot. On the other hand, I'm not sure what it would change and not sure she'd be honest anyways.

For me it is good. It gave me, and gives me, an understanding on what and why it hapoened. It also allows a WS to see what they did to a BS. It helps with empathy i think. Could be wrong.

I see the issue of what the WS did with the AP raised a lot here. Do people generally think it is wise or helpful to get that info?

I had to know. I honestly cared very little about most of it, sex, got it. It's an A, it wouldn't have lasted long without the sex.

The thing that was important to me; what did you do with him that you refused me. And, if your a BH, get ready, it's almost always there. Anal sex is top of the list, seems like every male AP pushes for it, and many WW's do it with their male AP's but refuse their husbands.

There was some stuff on the list that we hadn't done, and that was/is probably the hardest thing to get over. But I had to know, for men, sexual "exploration" is a big mark of love from women. If she give you missionary every night and is having anal sex and getting him to orgasm on her face, it's a hell of a lot different than some of the other alternatives.

If you're already having kinky sex with your W, I'm not sure I'd ask, because, what difference does it make, you're already getting it, he probably did to. But if you're like me, and many other men, who have a long "no" list, I think you need to find out if that "no" list is her no list, of it's a no list that's specific to you. Because, yeah, that does matter, quite a bit, IMHO.

I think knowing what they did has value ONLY insofar as it might be a need that the WS has that they thought they could ONLY get with the AP because the affair was already "dirty" so it didn't matter what you did.

And if it remains something that was the super exciting for the WS and something the BS would enjoy but was denied because they were in the "sacred" "clean" relationship, then that is legitimate territory to explore.

As a BS, I don't want to be relegated to only doing the clean vanilla stuff, especially if my WS discovered something about herself during the affair that was exciting to her.

My point is getting past all that and being willing to explore the outer boundaries together is the most important thing and to be honest with each other about what you both truly like.

T/J My main thought when reading through this thread is that my WH is an evil a$$h@le because I denied him very little in the bedroom yet he still cheated! I was dowm to do everything he asked except a 3some which was in large part because I could not trust him with other females. I didn't know at the time but now I've learned that most husbands don't want to have a threesome in order to screw the other woman. If I'd indulged him in that request and then found out about his A I would most likely be behind bars right now. Anyways, it's hard enough as a BW to get over the sex part but I imagine it's even harder for most BHs.

Aumanny- as always, sound reasoning. Of COURSE affair sex will be more exciting at first. It’s someone new. As it goes on, it will become more normalized, and less of a dopamine thrill. It will become marriage like sex... and if WE are the APs, we would be perceived the same way. After I became an MH with the APs BW, she told me the same things. It’s all relative and you are right.

The sexual boundaries explored outside the M is the valid point. And it doesn’t matter what excuse the WS makes after dday about never having done it with the Bs but no problem doing it for the AP, if they want to R, they better let the BS reclaim that lost ground and more. Easy as that or they can kiss R goodbye

Side note: does your tag line indicate your marriage has an OC? If so my hat off to you brother. That takes an inordinate amount of strength... I’d have dropped her and the other mans child like a bad habit. My sympathies to you.

[This message edited by nicenomore at 10:35 PM, January 19th (Friday)]

Do people generally think it is wise or helpful to get that info?

I am torn. Obviously, it is something that goes through my mind... a lot

For me "torn" part was worse than the info itself. Maybe just because the answer was what it was (and some "independent" sources supporting it).

I should clarify that on my tagline. O/C is short for "on going contact", meaning after she sent the "No Contact" text message after DD, I found out later that they had indeed kept texting each other from time to time, mainly to lament the end of their relationship and to see how the other was doing. This led to a huge confrontation and I told her I was DONE. It took her months of verified 'no contact' and showing me she was truly invested in reconciliation to soften me.

Finally, I felt she had proven to be sincere and so I gave her one final chance at reconciliation. That was the end of 2015. So we have been on the true reconciliation path for 2 years. I don't count that first year past DD. Reconciliation needs to have zero contact for it to truly work. And it has.

It's not perfect, we still struggle and I still have painful emotional flashback ever now and again, but our overall relationship is solid and the love making is off the charts. I feel at peace and happy.

And I accept that life is imperfect and relationships especially. I'm certainly not perfect and my mind wanders to lusty thoughts of other women and I have female friends who I cultivate in case of a rainy day, so I'm no saint. But I have not had a revenge affair and I'm doing the best I know to make this work out. And because she has been able to give me what I need and more, it's truly working.

I am unable to have sex w/WH because he did things w/OW that were never done with me. I have tried for years to get him to do what he did w/OW but I could not. Now, to me it is like getting leftovers which I no longer want. Over 1.5yrs out and struggling with all of it like everyone else

Thisfknsux: I imagine that it is just as hard for the BW as it is for the BH, especially when you have a wife that will do all that you ever wanted (besides the threesome). Hopefully he is ashamed of his actions.

beatmyheart: So am I understanding this right? You tried to get him to do the same things with you as he did with the other woman but he refused or you could not go through with it? I do understand that leftover feeling. Those things seemed tainted now and will never hold the same meaning or excitement ever again.

I have tried for years to get him to do what he did w/OW but I could not. Now, to me it is like getting leftovers which I no longer want. Over 1.5yrs out and struggling with all of it like everyone else

My point is, reconciling with you former wayward should have nothing to do with comparing who was better in the sack. It's about emotional connection....

Man, Aumanny. This brilliant, IMO.

...there's no limit to how great the sex can and will be.

For this, I think one has to study or reinvent Tantra or other esoteric yogic or Daoist knowledge....

My wife basically said similar things to my questions. As to the sex, she didn't do anything with him she had not done with me. She admitted that she did orgasm with him, but that he was not any better or worse in bed than me...just different. Well I do believe that. I can buy that much easier than any b.s. she might have fed me about him being bad in the sack. At least in this case she was honest with me.

We did our hysterical bonding after I let her move back in with me. What is different now is that I basically went from making love to her to just using her to get off now. The only way I could get past the revulsion of touching her was to basically objectify her and treat her like a slut. So now I just bang the hell out of her, I make her deepthroat me, I throw her around the bed, pin her down and just treat her like a mannequin. And you know what? She likes it this way. She told me that our sex is way better now than it was pre-A and that she likes me using her. Go figure.

What it boils down to is it took her having an A to finally admit to herself and me that she likes being dominated. She had an inkling that is what she wanted prior to her A, but she was always to shy to tell me.

I just miss the intimacy. I don't think she and I will ever "make love" in an intimate way again, and that is one of the issues I have with deciding whether or not I want to reconcile with her. For now we are trying, and she likes the rough sex, so I will stay that course for now. But... who knows...

It is brilliant. For me, it was not really comparing who is better or worse. I did not have the understanding on the difference between A sex and M sex. I have learned there are a few questions that don't help in recovery. The "who is better" is one of those questions. But I did ask right after D-day, and I regret asking right after receiving the answer. What affected me and our marriage longer were the acts that she did with the OM that she did not want to do with me. That still gets me from time to time. But for the most part, I am past it.

I do strive to seek a more emotional connection and relationship with my wife now. We talk more, work in issues together instead of me, or her trying to fix it by ourselves. I try and be a better listener (something most men are accused of not doing). Still trying to get better at that. One of our biggest discussions was is listening doing what you say or letting you have your say?

[This message edited by WilliamM at 10:41 AM, January 22nd (Monday)]

The only way I could get past the revulsion of touching her was to basically objectify her and treat her like a slut. So now I just bang the hell out of her, I make her deepthroat me, I throw her around the bed, pin her down and just treat her like a mannequin. And you know what? She likes it this way. She told me that our sex is way better now than it was pre-A and that she likes me using her. Go figure.

While this may be way over the line and if so, mods, please delete and beat me over the head..

This is common, very common. In fact, so common, that IMHO a large portion of A's may in fact come down to the fact that neither person in the relationship is having the sex they want. We're conditioned to think that women like it soft, romance and flowers. And the truth is, a lot of women really do like to be used as sex objects, dominated, humiliated, etc in bed. Shoot, look at the most popular "Romance" novel ever, 50 Shades, the guy was tying her up and whipping her on the 2nd date. A lot of women really do enjoy sex like that, it's their fantasy, so much so, that "rape fantasy" is actually a "top of the list" porn search for women. That does NOT mean that women want to be raped, anymore than one of the top 10 lists for men (mom and son porn) means most men want to sleep with their mothers. But it does mean it's a really common fantasy, and it does mean that there are a lot of women out there who like rough/S&M style sex and a lot of men who want their wives to "call them daddy".

We just all pretend like it's not true, and, when we enter marriage, a lot of women think what's "expected" is that they push down those fantasies. It causes everyone to be dissatisfied with the relationship, but, many people get stuck in that and wind up unfilled sexually.

It's hard because, when a man loves a woman, we have certain things that we like (let's say having an orgasm on a woman's face), and that we've done with other people, but we don't want to make our wives feel uncomfortable so we don't push the issue. And women do the same, also from a good place in their heart, love and respect, but with the same result. In an A, the chains come off, and, when they do, men typically act pretty predictably; there are things that almost all of us like, and those are the very things that make it to the top of the "she did XYZ with the OM but not me" list.

It's hard because society tells us not to do these things with our wives. But, truth of the matter is, many women like it, many men like it, and the only thing stopping this kind of sex from happening is "society". Guess what, whoever society is, they aren't in your bedroom when you've got your wife tied up and begging you to f**k her harder. It's sad that we all just kind of lie about it, women think that only "whores" enjoy certain kinds of sex (even though they enjoy it). Men think that only "whores" will have certain kinds of sex (even though they deeply want their wife to do it with them) and don't act the way they would with an AP with their own wives.

It would be better for all of us if we were just honest about it. Yes, men want to do all kinds of kinky things to women (in general). Yes, women do enjoy being dominated and "used" as a sex toy by men they love and respect (in general). And neither of them is wrong! That doesn't make me a pycho, or my wife a nympho. It's normal, as much as we all pretend it's not, it really is normal.

I'm sorry if I offended. I was just trying to drive home a point, and that is that oftentimes we have no clue what our spouses want from us sexually because they are too bashful to ask.

If my WW had asked me back when we first got married to do this stuff for her, I would have gladly done it with gusto. She's not the first sex partner that I have gotten freaky with, and she knew that going into the marriage. I still have no clue why she never asked me, other than she just didn't want me to think she was sleazy or loose.

I am unable to have sex w/WH because he did things w/OW that were never done with me. I have tried for years to get him to do what he did w/OW but I could not. Now, to me it is like getting leftovers which I no longer want. Over 1.5yrs out and struggling with all of it like everyone else

Wow. I'm so sorry you're going through that. Talk about disrespect!

It is just unacceptable that a WS goes out of their way for an AP and not a BS. Sometimes I wondejust ifnits even really possible to make up for it, even if the WS desperately tries. I did what I thought would be the ultimate equalizer by sleeping with the OBS, and while punishing the AP felt great, it didn’t take away the sense of feeling robbed of what was mine. The void of knowing my wife wasn’t exclusively mine anymore was a knife in the heart that nothing but time would fix.

Musing...

What is different now is that I basically went from making love to her to just using her to get off now. The only way I could get past the revulsion of touching her was to basically objectify her and treat her like a slut.

Hmmm ... I really hate that use of 'slut' because I hate double standards. If men can engage in casual sex, women can, too, IMO, and I refuse to condemn them.

I frame what I did post-d-day as sex for health with a partner I wasn't sure about.

I most definitely didn't want to use sex to degrade another person. I mean if I degrade my partner, how do I not also degrade myself? But IIRC I did feel degraded at first - after all, I was getting off with the one who betrayed me.

It took a few months to get of of degrading sex, because it took that long to decide my W really was doing the necessary work, and it took a couple of years for 'sex for health' to morph back into 'sex as an expression of love'.

Warning:

I suspect pretty much all of us fear life won;t get better when we're a few months out, and I suspect pretty much all of us believe love can't come back.

Nevertheless, do not think you will always feel the way you do now.

Love can come back and will come back for some of us - and you can't reliably predict who that will be....