SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

What is different now is that I basically went from making love to her to just using her to get off now. The only way I could get past the revulsion of touching her was to basically objectify her and treat her like...

yes .... that ....

That doesn't make me happy... but yes, that...

William, at some point you will simply stop giving a fuck what she thinks. You'll stop searching for deeper meanings or blaming your flaws or quirks.

Cheaters are just selfish, egotistical, and simply have different priorities. It's not rocket surgery. There's no deeper meaning. Your WW's cheating really had nothing to do with you or the AP. A lot of affairs are just based on opportunity and willingness.

My WW tried to blame me. I was mean, I expected her to pull her weight. See maintains she never did certain sexual things with AP that she did with me. We still had sex during the A. She is the one that ended the A. I don't give a shit if AP was hung like a Clydesdale and had the stamina of a Kenyan marathoner, not choosing the guy says something. Truthfully, I just don't give a fuck and I don't bother thinking about it.

Problem is I'm disgusted by her. Toss in some light choking and I do basically what livinginpain does. I treat her like a slut. I don't give a fuck if sex is good for her or not. I think a healthy relationship needs varied kinds of sex. Romantic, rough, quickies, slow and lazy, build the tension all day, you know what I mean. I now have one type on the menu and sometimes I don't even want that. It sucks.

Stayedforthekids it does suck. When I have sex with my WW now it's more about scratching the itch and burning off some of the anger I have towards her. The only difference I can see is that I do make the attempt to get her off, which means lots of oral and digital penetration. She has a hard time climaxing with PIV sex, and one of the things she says that I was much better at was the oral and manual stimulation...which is what she gets off on.

So I have a superior tongue and fingers to her OM. Yay. Makes me feel so accomplished.

[This message edited by LivingWithPain at 3:35 PM, January 23rd (Tuesday)]

Agree with living and stayed-

I hate that it’s how it became but my wife went from being my cherished princess to public property in my eyes. I don’t like to slut shame single women, because as Sisoon pointed out men are capable of enjoying casual sex, so can women. And anything my wife did before marrying to me has no bearing on how I saw her. It’s the people in relationships that don’t count in that. It’s after she chose to commit to me then thought She was ok disrespecting me. don’t think people who cheat then hope to reconcile understand how their spouse sees them afterwards. Tainted,m...., at least at first.

So when I went through HB I hated the fact that the woman I would have died for at one time, is now no better then a one night stand to me. It was mostly aggressive dominating sex, for my pleasure, and she was a receptacle. I’m sure she wished she could be treated with warmth and love but what did she really expect? I just wanted to reestablish my territory, get off, and kick her to the curb. And I hate the fact that’s what I had become, and what she had become to me.

Powerful stuff.

This unfortunately sounds like a reoccurring story.

Same with our sex life. We certainly had some fun adventurous sex, but her preference was really into the longer slower sex, especially when our kids got older and we were not pressed for time. She loved candles, dressing up.

After, I was in the Stayed camp. It was rougher and much more focused on me. I didn't go the route of Livinginpain where I was trying to out do the OM. They were doing things that she supposedly didn't like so much so we didn't do. It felt like me just getting it cause he did which held no appeal.

The biggest issue was oral which was a huge part of our foreplay. She loved it and responded to it. That was a huge turn on for me.

Her OM never did it, but it was ruined for me when I found out I was down there after him. I tried it once and never again in the 5 years we stayed after the affair.

For me. part of leaving was just realizing that we both would never be happy with the sex, or the other parts of the relationship that got so fucked up.

It is hard for me to give advice to not care. I truly didn't. It didn't help us in the long run.

I wonder if the fact that some WWs like it rough and allowing to be used as a wet hole during A comes from the same source? FOO or childhood issues?

WW always liked it rough. I had no such desires initially, but seeing that she goes crazy from light S/M I started to like it too.

In her conversation with AP3 she said that she's only able to feel passion during sex with me when I'm doing it rough. She never tried S/M with any of her APs (flirted with third about it). When I asked why, she said that she didn't trust them enough and was not intimate enough () to be so unguarded with them.

Now I think I like rough more than I did before. But I don't think that's because I want to punish or humiliate her (maybe I do subconsciously). And it is not because I view her only as a hole to satisfy my needs (satisfying her is still one of the greatest pleasures). I think it is partly because a lot of intimacy is gone from my side and partly because I have way less mind movies when I'm doing her hard.

She, on the other hand, started to enjoy soft sex more than before. She said that during rough sex she's sometimes unsure if I'm doing it as a play or for real. She told me that one time, when I put a loop of belt on her neck, she started to imagine what if I just kept on pulling...

There actually was two times post DDay2 I had sex with her just to humiliate her, kind of to regain upper hand over her. She didn't know I knew that she fucked with AP3 (and that there was AP3), I was getting my ducks in the row, preparing D papers, etc. I fucked her in the mouth, rough. Hated every second of it.

I never had anger sex with my wife. For me, I just could not look at her and have sex with her at the time. We went about 6 months before we had sex after D-day. And though things are much better with us, and I mean MUCH better, I still have moments if, and when I trigger, where I just can't. The desire is gone for a minute.

This thread shows that everything is not always rosy for the WW/OW if their BH allow them to stay. It was really hard for me to read some of these posts...I couldn't imagine my H treating me like a cum receptacle and me being alright with that. I then realized I was projecting ME onto a WW..and I don't understand that mindset at all. I appreciate the honesty in this thread...it gives a little more insight.

Want2BHappyAgain:

I am glad this thread has helped. I would love to hear from more women to hear their take on the same issues.

I'd like to hear from more women too, because honestly I was quite ashamed that that was how I felt until I was reading this...

It seems I'm somewhat "normal" - Whatever that means

She has stated, and I believe her, that she was never planning on leaving me.

WilliamM

I don’t understand why this is universally considered to be very positive. The husband is doing all the boring practical things. The AP gets to go on carefree dates.

When caught the WW says: “I was never going to leave you,” That’s like saying: "I never planned on you not paying my utility bill." Also that the OM had no plans of ever paying her utility bill.

Wow, that makes me feel special.

[This message edited by Michigan at 3:55 PM, January 24th (Wednesday)]

I couldn't imagine my H treating me like a cum receptacle and me being alright with that. I then realized I was projecting ME onto a WW..and I don't understand that mindset at all. I appreciate the honesty in this thread...it gives a little more insight.

Yes, I think that's exactly what you're missing. In many (perhaps most) cases, a WW is actively signing up to be a "cum receptacle" for another man. They know there's no feeling there, they know they are a cheap f**k for him. And, sadly, a lot of men love the thought of that, a woman willing to debase herself and destroy her marriage for some sex in the backseat of a car. It's incredibly exciting to men, myself included, to imagine a women who wants me that badly.

But, come d-day, the BH has the startling realizing that his W (I'll speak for myself here) enjoys/wants to be a cum recepticle. She nearly threw her life away to be a CR (tired of typing it) for another man. She lied, tore up her vows, and nearly destroyed me and our marriage to be a CR. Now, she didn't think that's what she was, but.. Yes, she, and many WW, that's what you are in the eyes of the AP.

So, the problem comes that seeing another person treat you that way makes us jealous, if we want to admit it or not, the thought of a woman who would do the things (risk marriage, lie to husband/family) for us just for our "cum" is incredibly erotic to us. I think that the BH who are commenting on here, they want to feel that feeling without cheating. And, sadly, the way to do that is to treat your W like the AP did. No, it's not the "right" answer, but as you can see, it's really common and something I think many BH have to try to deal with.

The final thing, and perhaps the most inflammatory of all, treating someone like a CD doesn't mean that you don't love them. In fact, in a lot of cases, it means the opposite. A lot of men want sex like this, and want to be rough/kinky/uninhibited with their wives. It has nothing to do with love or anger, and everything to do with "I want to feel better about myself and having great sex is a good way to do it".

I think rideitout hit most of it accurately with a few exceptions for me personally. Wants2behappy- I never wanted to feel that way about my wife, and frankly hated that I did. I wanted to cherish her as special, as the future mother of my children, and protect her. I think her willingness to give away her body, respect, faith and loyalty from me, whether her A having anything to do with me or not, caused me to drop her out of special status in my mind. I know it hurt her, because what woman wants to go from being treated with care and compassion and love (even though she took it for granted), to being treated like an object? But it hurt me too.

There are few drivers here at play:

1) bioloocal factor-. As men we are hardwired to create offspring, and guard our brood, ensuring our progeny grow up. When we see that our mates potentially risk the success of our genetic proliferation by forcing us to compete with other mates, we lose some of the protective drive towards them, and gain some competitive dominance assertion drive instead. This can be translated into going from pampering and expressing love to her to physical reclamation and competition.

2) the social factor-logically, any person who has devalued themselves by whatever context, will be somewhat devalued by others too, even their mates, men or women. It so happens that often for men, the sexual aspect of this is especially profound. As ride pointed out, if she was willing to be a whore for another man, why is she any more valuable to me? Sadly I don’t think “ones mans trash is another mans treasure” has much merit in this scenario, and even if we love our wives, it hurts to have to accept that they aren’t worth our adoration at their new lower value.

It’s like if I had 50k to buy a car... would I rather buy a brand new car, or buy the same exact model of car, but with multiple previous owners who beat the piss out of it, for the same price? What’s the better value?

3) finally, the sex specifically. I have learned from being here that often times women will be sexually adventurous with an AP in ways that she never was with her husband, NOT necessarily because the AP is a better man in any way, but simply because the combination of newness, illicit ness, and frankly lack of care for his opinion of her. Time and time again, women have said they could act without inhibition with an AP because they didn’t have to maintain what they perceived as important, a good girl image with them. Whereas with their Husband they actually did care about his opinion, without seeing the sad irony in it that husbands too want sexually uninhibited and that’s not mutually exclusive of being a good wife and mother. In fact it’s the loyal caring husband who deserves it, not a random AP. But once that realization has been made after infidelity it’s often too late. Madonna whore complex. So at this point, the BH is just making up for lost ground out of humiliation, and anger, instead of love. “If the AP did it, you can be damn sure I’ve earned it and MORE for actually having earned it by marrying you. How did he earn it? With some cheap compliments?”

Fortunately for me I was never explicitly denied anything the AP got, but they did adventure into things I never got to, and it pissed me off royally that I essentially bought the ticket to the theme park, and AP got to ride some rides for free that I hadn’t gotten to yet. It’s an emasculating feeling, that we often try to compensate for by seeking sexual submission and acting with selfishness. My wife told me I could have and do whatever I wanted after day, and I did, but it didn’t change the fact that another man beat me to it while we were married.

It’s not right, and it’s certainly not fair. But I can assure you for most BH, there is no pleasure in having become this. I’d have given anything to still be the loving caring protector to her, but I just didn’t see her as anything beyond a tool for me to get off after her betrayal.

In fact one of the reasons I divorced her was because I knew I’d never be able to treat her well again, and even she, at a certain point, would have earned redemption and a Chance to Be loved again, and all I could see her as was disposable and even I realized that wouldn’t be fair to HER, and I know how callous and hurtful that sounds. Beleive me I hated it. The saddest part is I know that if she ever gets into another LTR she will make an amazing partner, just not with me. And the wonderful woman I am dating now, I can treat with the love and respect that I no longer could with my wife. It doesn’t hurt that my current GF has healthy views on sex, and we are open and expressive in uninhibited ways that are based on love, not obligation.

I don’t understand why this is universally considered to be very positive.

I don't know about universally positive -- but after reading a bunch of stories with a number of WS who abandoned ship completely or never own it or make it seem like they are unhappy they stayed -- it is simply a necessary concept to consider the possibility of reconciliation.

Before SI, I thought ALL infidelity was one person deciding the M was over -- the whole have their cake and eat it too was all new to me. So, I did need to try and understand why my wife stayed, and why she did what she did without really wanting to leave.

It’s like if I had 50k to buy a car... would I rather buy a brand new car, or buy the same exact model of car, but with multiple previous owners who beat the piss out of it, for the same price?

Bad analogy, IMO. For $50K, per TrueCar, you can get a used 2015 BMW 740, which was over $90K new. New vs. used means very different $.

With R, you usually get back years of connection, kids, someone who once turned you on tremendously in the past and may in the future.... That's much different from finding someone new, who may cheat on you in the future anyway.

I have learned from being here that often times women will be sexually adventurous with an AP in ways that she never was with her husband

Are you sure you learned that here? What I've learned here is that most A sex is vanilla and less than great. My image of an A is that it's always sexual, that it's due to problems in an M, and that the sex is beyond mind-blowing and much better than with the BS, but that image comes from influences outside of SI - novels, movies, TV shows.

As men we are hardwired to create offspring, and guard our brood, ensuring our progeny grow up.

That's a hypothesis, not a fact. For example, I've always used some sort of contraception (which failed once) because I did not want kids. I don't knowhow many men and women are like me, but I do know I'm not alone.

Sisoon you have been here longer than me, so I respect your opinion. I was only speaking from mine.

1) I was comparing the same model car one used, for the same price... to illustrate that to me, a car that all things equal, New is better than used. Of course, YMMV, and I agree the analogy could have been more succinct. Let me try again: Would you rather drive your car knowing you are the only person who drives it, or after it’s been driven hard by a stranger? Maybe that’s more fitting...

2) we can agree it’s contentious... but tell me there’s ALOT of BS stories that refer to the fact that “OM got x,y,z sexually that I never got!” Oral, anal, fetishes, etc etc. that’s what I’m referring to. And In the cases where you are right, the sex was vanilla, the sentiment of “ I paid in for it (commitment,money, sacrifice) he got the benefits for free!” Still apply.

3) biologically- the majority I should say, of men are hardwired to reproduce... hence why sex is enjoyable. I’m not sure hypothesis would be the correct term, but with a sampling size of 6.5 billion+ humans on earth with females outnumbering males, I’d venture to bet The majority of men become fathers at some point. There ARE of course, exceptions as you correctly pointed out

[This message edited by nicenomore at 11:38 AM, January 25th (Thursday)]

My question for some of the BHs here, who share the same feelings as I, do your WWs know how you feel about having sex with them?

My WW really enjoys the sex we are having now, but she does not really realize that there is no emotional connection in it for me. I'm not sure how she would react if I was forthright with her about it, because she does not equate sex with intimacy the way that I do. I'm thinking it would surprise her, but not really hurt her feelings too much.

My wife did know, but I didn’t want to tell her at first. If it makes any sense, I just sort of did what I wanted. She was desperate to make it up to me and I took full advantage, going so far as to have a threesome with her friend that always felt chemistry with. I’m not sure she wanted to share me, but somehow thought that by doing it, we’d be even. To be fair, I kind of hoped it would too.

But I started treating her like the women you see in porn. It was rougher, unemotional, and objectifying... it became the only way I could get off was to see her in absolute submission to me. Prior to ddaybwe had aggressively sex, but also made love in the romantic sense. Candles, hot bath, luxury hotel get always, servicing her just for her, kissing, cuddling you get the idea. After day, that all went out the window and she brought it up to me that I didn’t seem engaged in the moment...at which point I pretty much had to tell her the truth... that In order for me to remain aroused and get off, I had to see her as MY sex toy instead of my wife. She was really hurt by that and cried herself to sleep, but she understood the WHY.I recognize how bad that sounds and I beleive me I HATE that she made me feel that way about her, but she also recognized it was her doing. I can’t imagine it’s easy for a WW to go from being the princess to the prostitute in her Hs eyes, and not just sexually. From being wined and dined to a booty call, from thoughfulnesss to lack of second thought, etc. but municipal guess living is that she does have an inkling. She probably knows you see her as partial slut, but lives with it, and doesn’t want to address it to you because really, what right does She have? And the sex isn’t bad for her either so I think she is prob letting sleeping dogs lie

WilliamM...thank you. I hope I'm not threadjacking...and I do appreciate you saying you would like to hear from women. I REALLY want to hear from men about some of these things.

7. Did you do things with him that you never/refused to do with me? Why with him and not me?

I have had more sexual fantasies than my H...but I had been afraid to mention some things to him for fear that he would think I was a freak. I often wonder if the WW's did these things with their adultery co-conspirator because they didn't CARE what the ACC thought? But...that refusing part baffles me. If the H is asking for it...WHY wouldn't the W be willing? Again...this may be me projecting MY thoughts onto other women.

Rideitout...My H had always had a fantasy to USE a woman...is this what you are saying about what men want? He liked the thought of humiliating a woman...and truth be told...it turned me on when he said what he wanted to do. But he could never bring himself to humiliate ME...at least not sexually. He humiliated me in a way I never dreamed he would do...and I certainly didn't want THIS type of humiliation .

We always had a little bit of rough/kinky/uninhibited sex...but it ramped up when our children were old enough to be left at home on their own. It started with us going to the French Quarter in New Orleans...and we soon met like minded people...and it evolved into "playing" with others. I wouldn't commit adultery...but we did pretty much everything else short of that. None of the people we played with were swingers...but we would get together at someone's place...get naked...have fun...go home and have awesome sex with each other. Or we would go wild just by ourselves. I thought I was keeping "My Man" so happy that he would never want to stray. I thought wrong .

My H said after DDay that even though he enjoyed what we did...he wanted "more". The only "more" he could get was committing adultery. He said he just saw it as an extension of what we were already doing. He knew I was against adultery...but if I never found out...I could never get hurt. So he advertised for NSA sex while working alone overseas...and a divorced woman agreed to it. My H told me that he enjoyed the fact that after he fucked the ACC and rolled over to sleep...that she would get dressed and leave...to him...it was like he told her by rolling over that she was dismissed. He eventually developed feelings for the ACC though...and the extreme guilt he felt when he arrived back home made him like a zombie for two days...until he finally confessed to the A.

After DDay...ALL of what WE did with others STOPPED. It is like closing the barn doors after the horses have bolted out though . My H told me later that he couldn't believe I let him do all these things and he fucked it all up by doing the ONE thing I was against. Now that we have both gotten more involved in our faith...we are very ashamed at what we did with others. We STILL have rough/kinky/uninhibited sex now...but it only involves US. Truth be told...it is MORE erotic for ME...and he says him too. We can "play" with each other...the sexual tension gets built up even more than it was with others...and we still have the happy ending .

nicenomore...I think you might be right about that "good girl" image...it sort of goes with what I had said earlier. I know I felt like a freak for wanting some sexual things done to me...some of them y'all have mentioned . I didn't open up to my H about this until we were married almost 20 years. Thankfully he didn't run out the door!!!

But I can assure you for most BH, there is no pleasure in having become this. I’d have given anything to still be the loving caring protector to her, but I just didn’t see her as anything beyond a tool for me to get off after her betrayal.

Thank you for writing this...it troubled me to see the callousness in some of the posts. But...once again...I can't possibly know what goes on in anyone's mind but mine. I always say...if it will HELP the BS to heal...as long as it is legal...to go for it. The ACC in MY case wasn't married...but to the other BW's out there who see the ACC carrying on with her BH on FB for instance...they may find solace in the fact that the ACC will never know what it feels like to be cherished by their BH anymore. I am also glad to see that you have found happiness with your current GF .