SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I will take that bait.

My employer is remarkably flexible when it comes to balancing work and family.

As one example, we have several employees who used to be full time but went to 10 or 20 hour work weeks.

There have been times that these employees want to be promoted at the same rate as full-time employees.

But they have less experience and have added less value. It takes six years of 10 hour weeks to have one normal year’s experience.

And the typical response to the math is cries of sexism. Which is both inaccurate and ungrateful to a company that attempted to let them balance work and family.

Randy, your posts have been reflective of MGTOW/Red Pill for some time, I hope you didn't just use this as an opportunity to inflame the conversation here.

SI is meant to be a safe place for all genders, it greatly saddens me to hear terms such as Chad and Beta used here. There are men here who are hurting, they doubt themselves and their masculinity enough without having to measure themselves against such dismissive and emasculating terms.

Chad isn't derogatory to BS's. Its actually more a derogatory term for a wayward. A Chad is some mythical Alpha creature that swoops in and steals your woman for mindblowing, meaningless sex. Think of OM's. And nothing is more emasculating than being cheated on. Many BH's like me were Beta chumps, comfortable in our marriage, but became servants to our wife. "Happy life, happy wife". But your wife isn't happy, because you give into to her and put her on some pedestal. Then some Chad's swoop in in all their Alpha Pride and its over.

Ive read a fair few red pill/MGTWOW sites and for some reason have watched some of the YouTubers as well, its not a movement aimed at empowering men, or else 90% of the information would be on physical, mental and financial health topics specific to males. Instead 90% if not more is focused on women, and not just on negative behaviour traits but on physical shaming as well.

You can say that about any group. They all have extremists that take any message too far. It basically about male empowerment through trial and error over millenia. Its really nothing new.

Its a hate movement, as so eloquently described by your description of women keeping mens shrivelled up balls in their Coach purses. The inference? Women are only out for material possessions (Coach purse) and men who try to keep women happy are, as you label them, Beta.

Completely wrong. Read my prior comment about Alpha's being Beta-fied after marriage. They want their Alpha, but they turn them in Beta for domestic purposes and then go find another Alpha. Thats what I mean. The moral: Keep vigilance from going beta.

Its somewhat ironic that a movement so focused on how terribly women treat men is so damning and judgemental toward other men as well. Who are YOU to refer to other men as Beta? The majority of true Alpha men I know - and I work in a very male dominated field and have avery Alpha type SO - don't judge other men because they don't need to. Its the keyboard warriors who love to scream out about how Alpha they are and how lesser other men are that make me roll my eyes thinking okay buddy. Real 'alpha' men are confident and self assured, they don't need to belittle others.

I don't think there is anything wrong with being Beta. But, its no surprise that Alpha's in every culture are revered and enjoy more wealth. Go way back to Hunters that brought home a kill for their village. They enjoy more of their prize and earn the adoration of the opposite sex. Every man really wants to be that guy.

How can you read the posts of the women here who have been hurt by their husbands and not see that betrayal is not gender specific? Most of these women didn't marry their husbands due to hypergamy - because yep, all us women are just dreaming' about a man to look us into middle class suburban life nor were they out riding the ol' cock carousel (my personal favourite MGTOW term- it cracks me up ever time).

Yep, they marry Chad's that take some poor Beta's prize. Its full circle.

I think you should keep your red pill rubbish where it belongs and not bring it to a safe place like SI, you know this already as evidenced by your escalation in your posts - you just wanted to sprout your nonsense.

Your insecurities are showing Randy and its not very Alpa at all.

Maybe, you are correct and mods can shut this post down if they deem fit. But I'm not trying to shove any red pill down anyone throat. I'm not putting a red pill into my own mouth, I'm very selective with what I consume, but I do think there is some very good points they make about male/female dynamics.

Whether or not there is any truth to this Red Pill philosophy or not my WW's affair has changed me as a man permanently.

Maybe it's some primal biological response or whatever but I will never be the same or see women in the same way ever again.

This was only my second relationship ever so maybe I was too naive and was wearing those rose colored glasses for far too long. I won't ever be burned by anyone like this ever again. I used to think that most people were inherently good even though I'm not very social. Now I just think that most people suck and everyone lies and can't be trusted.

Maybe it is my fault for putting her on a pedestal and giving her the freedom to do whatever she wanted and being ok with defaulting to her choices most of the time. I was just trying to make her happy but in reality she wasn't happy at all. The only thing I couldn't give her was the career she wanted or the motivation to achieve her dreams. She blamed this entirely on me and resented me for it even before we got married unbeknownst to me.

I will never put another woman on a pedestal. I'm now making all of the decisions and taking back all of the control in my life. I will never cede my power to anyone ever again. I will never fully invest or trust another human ever again.

I will never only "make love" to a woman again. That's not what women want. Many women want/like rough sex and to be dominated. I never realized this until now. I didn't do many things with my wife because I had too much respect for her and thought those sex acts were degrading. Apparently she doesn't think that way at all and had no problem doing them with POSOM.

I will be more aggressive in expressing my needs and I will not be rejected sexually by anyone ever again. If anyone does that to me then I'm not going to sweat it, I'll just find someone else who does want sex. I will never put someone else's needs before my own.

I've never been a selfish person before and that's been a problem. Why the hell did I care about giving everyone else what they wanted for so long but never cared about what I wanted/needed? I don't know the answer to that but I'm not letting that happen ever again. It's my way or highway in any relationship I have from now on.

...and yes I'm resentful, bitter and angry still and that's not going to change anytime soon.

They all have extremists that take any message too far

Yet you fail to see that this advice only applies to the women who are on the opposing extreme side. There are plenty of women exactly as you describe them, I am sure of it. How about you learn to avoid them. They can have their beta husbands and their chad lovers and go fuck off into eternity. Meanwhile, 80% of the population is going to just go on living their lives trying to make honest connections and have healthy relationships.

Do a lot of women fantasize about strong, athletic men swooping in to fuck them? Probably. How many? Who knows. But there are enough SI swimsuit issues sold yearly that I am pretty certain that there are probably a proportionate number of men fantasizing about banging a busty, hundred-and-five pound model.

The difference here is what choices are made. I fantasize sure, about a woman I saw at the bar, or the coffee shop, or a celebrity, I always have. At the end of the day I am defined by my choices to not betray. I can look myself in the mirror and with clear eyes and conscience say that, though I made some mistakes to be sure, I have always chosen to act with the thoughts and feelings of those close to me in my mind.

Above and beyond that, what's the endgame? You are 37 years old and divorced. If you have a decent job, you are literally at the top of the dating food chain. Go to town. Keep some "plates spinning". But ask yourself, what happens when your SMV dips a little bit?

Like I said I have a GF and I'm certainly not going to cheat on her. I know what that shit feels like. So I'm not interesting in plate spinning, or whatever its called. A lot of what I've heard is about minimizing risk in relationships, because you will zero out if you make them the center of your universe. I care for my GF, but if it were to end tomorrow, there isn't enough investment to zero out.

I care for my GF, but if it were to end tomorrow, there isn't enough investment to zero out.

How does she feel about you?

Women are depreciating assets, their major asset and unique selling point is in their beauty and fertility.

That's a statement from a very disturbed or immature mind. I knew my W's body would deteriorate over time, just as I knew mine would. But there's more to M than the partners' looks.

I wanted a long-term relationship that satisfied me physically, intellectually, and emotionally, and I wanted to be with someone who gives and takes, so I could give and take, too.

Appreciating/depreciating assets? Bullshit. We're people.

Women are irrational and inconsistent....

I studied China for many years. Chinese logic is way different from Western logic - so different that it doesn't appear logical at all. And yet their science was way ahead of the West's until, say, the 16th century. And their economy was way ahead of Europe's until well after the West forced opium on them. Even 100 years ago, when the Qing fell after a century of disasters, Chinese cotton cloth woven in homes was higher quality and cheaper than cotton woven in Manchester.

But I don't understand Chinese logic. Clearly, the logic that's taught in logic classes is incomplete. Instead of claiming women aren't logical, we should be asking, 'What are we missing?'

Women are Machiavellian by nature.

That's idiocy. Machiavelli was male. His target audience was male. For centuries males read Nick's writings.

The things you posted, while incredibly inflammatory also happen to generally be true.

Anyone who believes it is really doing a (bad) job on him/herself. Anyone who believes it is his/her own worst enemy.

A lot of what I've heard is about minimizing risk in relationships, because you will zero out if you make them the center of your universe. I care for my GF, but if it were to end tomorrow, there isn't enough investment to zero out.

What you are doing is saying that since one extreme didn't work, I am going to try another extreme. You had no personal boundaries, so you are going to build a wall instead. Both are unhealthy options.

Could you possibly consider being vulnerable and open in your new relationships without putting them on a pedestal? Maybe look for a partner, instead of someone to complete you?

Instead of claiming women aren't logical, we should be asking, 'What are we missing?'

God thank you.

I hope that you are able to make the G2G in April Sisoon, it would be nice to meet you.

Whether or not there is any truth to this Red Pill philosophy or not my WW's affair has changed me as a man permanently.

Me too brother, me too.

When I saw the end of my dream marriage, and the potential demise of the family unit I worked so hard for, yeah that was rough. The situational depression had me so low, suicide was a legitimate option in my mind (at the time) to escape the pain.

I made an internal resolution to myself to focus on what I really enjoyed the most in life. Which, in my case was finding amusement. Laughing. It comes out here as fart jokes, but leaks out elsewhere in my life in other ways. Much much less focus on being 'mature' within the family unit. Still handle responsibilities, but they are often less stressful.

Still the ultra professional at work, just no longer allowing the potential of career growth to dictate my actions. Taking more duties that I would enjoy doing vice the ones that would help the resume.

If some dude reading this is taking in the red pill mantra and allowing himself to join that movement, that's his choice. He is his own man. I personally just don't have the extra spare time because my focus is on finding laughter and fun when and where I can. I want to look back when I'm old as a stale fart on my life and go 'hey, that shit was fun, I wanna do it again.'

Course my change likely ain't the same change as other dudes. I could see other dudes who were relaxed reacting by becoming more rigid or serious. I'd imagine the red pill schtick would have serious appeal to them.

And if you're reading this and saying 'yeah that is me' in your head, I don't really have much I can say. Ain't trying to change your mind on in. Just don't think I'd wanna go hang out with a dude who don't know how to have fun anymore, kwim? I'm too busy with my own repurposing to worry too much about yours.

What you are doing is saying that since one extreme didn't work, I am going to try another extreme. You had no personal boundaries, so you are going to build a wall instead. Both are unhealthy options.

Could you possibly consider being vulnerable and open in your new relationships without putting them on a pedestal? Maybe look for a partner, instead of someone to complete you?

I zeroed out because I lost the nuclear family. That was my pinnacle, I was very invested in that. I had already lost my XW years before the divorce. I got comfortable, complacent, passive and got burned. I know now that I married the wrong person, but I can't say I regret it because my daughter came from it. I never really had XW on a pedestal. Her faults were in plain view. Though some men do this and that is what I was referring to, not personally.

I know the only thing that can zero me out again is investment like marriage/kids. Otherwise I can walk away without much damage. Problem is most women esp in my age group want all that. My GF is even talking about it and it terrifies me and she knows it. That is where my wall is and I'm not sure why I'd want to tear it down, even if I may lose someone because of it.

Red Pill must be the ultimate Bro-Love. They sound charming.... I just hope you aren’t so consumed and spending all your energy on learning how to treat women like shit that you are missing out on other things. So much more to life on this planet.

There is something to be said for kindness and mindfulness. I would rather be screwed over and keep my integrity as a good human being than dominating and conquering (#winning) others. That said, I leave it up to the ladies to walk away or fall for it.... everyone makes their own decisions. We are all adults. As long as you are confident enough to be open about it and not turning into a liar.

Please stop and smell the roses and appreciate other things, too.

The gender pay gap is real. I am not going to debate that. Anecdotal work stories are not research, facts and studies. The research and studies done on the subject are well done and solid. The "adjusted" gender pay gap is less than the .76 I posted. These are the facts.

With such relatively small differences in the gender pay gap — less than ten cents on the dollar, when considering the adjusted pay gap — is it even worth taking note? The short answer is yes. Though the difference is small, it is statistically significant. And that small change adds up over time. According to Glassdoor’s study, women who earn between $40,000 to $100,000 per year will respectively lose tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars over the course of a 30-year career. And this loss in pay is often compounded — a smaller initial salary will result in proportionally smaller raises, leaving women struggling to play catch-up with their male counterparts throughout their careers. And, we know that the gap grows as workers age, so that small gap you start with in your career grows to a larger gap towards the end. Dr. Chamberlain’s study found that workers aged 18-24 start with a 2.2 percent adjusted pay gap, but those aged 55-64 face a 10.5 percent gap — nearly double the national average.

~ Glassdoor

sms, why didn't you pick the one by pew?

Mwahahahaha

Because it partially supported his argument?

Sly sly sly

Randy, I think a lot of the red pill stuff makes sense. Some of it is in line with what SI advises. Focus on yourself not the relationship. Find other avenues for happiness besides the relationship. Self improvement.

That is sound advice no matter where it comes from.

I will admit, my WW's A changed me too. It changed how I view women and relationships too. That fucking sucks. I will never get married again. I really don't see the point if you're not going to raise a family together. Too much financial risk and too damn much hassle to divorce. I get it.

I also think SI can be a hindrance to moving the hell on at some point. I come here less and less myself. I don't post very much either. Reading some of the stuff here is like scratching an open wound, the damn thing will never really heal if you know what I mean.

ntv, I think the Pew study and the studies I shared are very similar and support each other and come up with the same numbers and statistics. What I have posted does partially support the posters arguments that the gender pay gap, when adjusted, is less than what I had originally posted.

ETA: TBH, ntv, the Pew study articles were harder to wade through, and from what I read, a lot of their research was done with political leanings included in the studies, too. Didn't want the politics. I was looking for quick, accurate information. I wasn't being in the least sly and if you want to post the Pew research that somehow contradicts what I have posted and supports their arguments, have at it. I wasn't purposely omitting anything that would support the posters arguments against the gender pay gap.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 12:48 PM, February 1st (Thursday)]

SMS, I grant you the 5 cent per dollar paygap and I understand it does add up over time.

My only question is why do women accept lower pay than men? Afterall, I have never been offered a job I had to accept. If I decided it didn't pay up to my standard, I'd either turn it down or counter (I've never really countered, but it is an option everyone has at their disposal). You can also leave at any time if you aren't being rewarded.

I just wonder for shits and giggles, since it is statistically small once adjusted, if you did a blue eye vs brown eye paygap test, would it present a discrepancy as well?

Oh, Randy, that is blaming the "victim". Just. No.

Everyone report back after you've sat your daughters down to have that little chat about how they're really nothing more than a depreciating asset. SMH

*gasp*

[This message edited by FaithFool at 11:57 AM, February 1st (Thursday)]

Faithfool:

That comment is a reflection of how society measures dating desirability for women based on looks, whereas dating desirability for men can come from looks, intelligence, power, achievement.

Some of that can be correlated to biology. For example youth is tied to female fertility, and male power is tied to resources for children. But it is mostly illogical. For example, maternal intelligence is a greater factor in child intelligence than paternal intelligence, and good genetics are a core biological imperative.

Focusing on changing that bias would be a better focus than a 5% adjusted wage gap.