SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Everyone report back after you've sat your daughters down to have that little chat about how they're really nothing more than a depreciating asset. SMH

Would you not tell them? Listen, it's cold, it's hard to hear, but it's also true, women are generally at the peak of their sexual attractiveness from around 18-25. Does that statement make you uncomfortable? What if I told you that men are typically at the peak of their physical prowess between 18-25? Because that is also true, and, just like women, our physical ability begins to fall off after that. Or should we lie to our sons who are 30 years old and tell them, "Sure, you can join the NFL at 30" even though, the facts are, they are past their physical prime and will not be able to compete against the 20 year olds out there? We are all depreciating in some way; my physical abilities depreciate each year; but we are also appreciating in other ways; my experience is vastly deeper now than it was at 20. The problem for women is that many men don't care that they are far more mature mentally at 40 than they were at 20, men aren't dating them for that primarily. The reason that the gaps exists is that male "value" is predicated on things like status/power/intelligence/money, things that generally increase over time. Female "value" is predicated on things like looks/fertility/thinness/sexual history (lack thereof), things that generally decrease over time.

We can wish it wasn't true, we can tell our sons/daughters it's not true, but, in general, it is true. A cursory look at society, an an introspective look at yourself can tell you it's true. Is it hard and fast? No, it's not, I think my wife has gotten more beautiful with time and my love for her has grown tremendously, so before you think me a pig, realize that I do understand the concept of history, shared experiences and love. However, that doesn't change the fact that my W's "options" for a husband have become more limited where my options for a wife have probably increased.

Is it fair? Of course not. Do I want it to be this way? No, I don't, I would have been much happier if I had the SMV my wife did when she was 20 when I was 20 too; it would have been far more useful and led to a much more fulfilling young adulthood for me. But it is this way, no matter what I want to be true or how unfair it might be. Men and women value different things in potential partners with men valuing things that are most often reflected in younger women and the reverse being true for women.

As to the pay gap, I could believe a 5% gap. I don't believe, at all, the 20-30% gap. Economics tells us that can't be the case. If it were true, a woman could open a business (let's say, Walmart), hire only women to work there and undercut Walmart's prices significantly because their labor costs were so much lower. Businesses would hire women above men in every situation they could because they could get the same employee for 30% less. Shoot, I hire quite a few people in my current role, if we're offering 100K for a position and a woman walks in, is qualified and says "I only want 70K to do this" it would be really hard to consider other candidates. The truth is, very few women want the roles that I interview for (probably interviewed 2-3 women in my life compared to 100+ men), but, if they did want the role and were qualified/did well in the process, they would be offered EXACTLY the same salary as a man. Maybe the man would negotiate it upwards better, I don't know, but I do know that our offers for positions are entirely formulaic, even if I wanted to hire that women in at 70K I couldn't, because of how our banding works. Does it happen? I'm sure it does, just like some female managers I'm sure refuse to hire males. Is it systemic in the system? If it is, I can't imagine how it's perpetrated; we are actually requested by HR to "consider women" for the roles we open, but we can't, because very few women have the credentials and even fewer are willing to fly 100+ days a year.

My biggest issue with RP and MGTOW is that they identify a real problem that men experience but propose a damaging and often unsuccessful solution. Men accepting abuse from female partners is a real issue but whenever I have seen a man posting about facing abuse with a high amount of RP type posters, the answers are extremely unhelpful. There's no validation and comfort. It's all about how it's partially his fault and how he needs to change himself. Even if there is a message of empowerment in there, the replies to them are not empowering, they are more often than not derogatory, and these men stop posting.

There are tons of good issues to focus on for men's rights that have very little to do with acquiring women. Women and interpersonal relationships are not the end all be all solution and this is something that the feminist movement got right behind the scenes. They opened up women only shelters, helped women prisoners with juggling kids and parole, set up funds and scholarships for everything from health to education, expanded the availability of women's health services at a low cost or even free, change the narrative regarding sexual assault from regular people to investigative police forces through awareness, etc. And guess what? It's working! But of course there's tons of people who never see the fruits of their labor and instead believe that all they do is moan about men, the pay gap, and priveledge without doing anything.

Why not focus on how 75% of homeless people are men and yet there are no dedicated male only shelters? Why not focus on how to treat male DV victims with the same amount of compassion and care as their women counterparts? Why not focus on how our boys aren't safe from female sexual predators and how victims of the "hot teacher" actually experienced a lot of dysfunction well into adulthood in forming intimate relationships by raising awareness and calling for predators to be treated the same in court as their make counterparts? Why not focus on changing the dialog about male fathers and some of the issues faced by gaining custody when deserved in certain areas? Where's all the rallies we could be having if the proponents of male rights could get together for something productive instead of just getting women in bed and being inflammatory?

To all the other feminists - how badly would you want to hold up the mug shot of of one of these skanky predator teachers with their crime and punishment plastered on it?

Oh I totally get it Rideitout. Don't need it re-explained, but thank you for spelling it out again.

I forgot to have kids (thank the gods) so I don't have any skin in this game. I really do, though, want to hear back from the lads here who have daughters once they have sat them down to tell them about their Red Pill asset value.

I want to hear what the daughters have to say once they have that conversation.

Seriously.

[This message edited by FaithFool at 12:40 PM, February 1st (Thursday)]

I haven't read all the responses....I have a feeling it might short-circuit part of my brain.

To me, this is all rather simple: This is the process of evolution. It's inevitable. The reason it's taking so long and subsequently causing so much suffering in the time delay is that - to paraphrase Einstein - you can't solve a problem by using the same logic that was used to create it. If you are fighting against something then you are creating more of the same as what you are fighting against. I don't think our world has ever given us more clear evidence of this as what we are seeing in these times. Every single movement gives birth to a counter-movement. The division we are claiming to try to overcome we are creating even more of in our efforts.

It's all about personal responsibility. It's about not becoming the monster you are fighting. It's about making that your highest priority and being vigilant of that in all your beliefs and actions. The moment you begin to associate with a group you are in dangerous waters. If that group creates any division as part of their identity (an "us vs them") then you are contributing to the greater suffering of all.

It is the belief in the need to fight that births the fight.

Neko, its just different for men. If some guy came in saying his wife keeps cheating on him. They will tell him to leave her. If he came here, the people here will tell him to leave her.

I remember i went to reddit shortly after dday, told my story, everyone was telling me to dump her ass. I was thinking these assholes just don't understand. Someone there recommended this site and so I came here hoping for support that my marriage can be salvaged. Nope, I was fucked. They were completely right! Did it stop my stupidity? Hell no, I persisted thinking I could still save it if I just was proactive and did a pick me dance like a chump.

Now I did enjoy the compassion from some female posters here, but the virtual hugs while comforting I guess, weren't of very much help. The words I wouldn't hear are the words I needed to hear and there was no way to deliver them in a palatable way to me.

I think many men just lack compassion the women have and want to tell you the cold hard truth rather than sugar coat it in hopes it will pull your head out of your ass as quick as possible. If the person doesn't want to hear it though, they just have to learn the hard way. It all works itself out one way or another.

[This message edited by Randy1133 at 12:52 PM, February 1st (Thursday)]

At the root of this, Randy, is the loss of control. And the question you are asking is basically, "How do I get it back?" The identifying with the experience (both before and after) through primarily a male perspective is just the red herring in the real story. To say it more directly, you think you lost it by being one type of man...so the way to regain it must subsequently be by being a different type of man.

What are your beliefs about you? About the essence of you? Because your wanker's gonna rot one day and turn to dust. Who are you beyond that? And in this big universe that continues to have a sun that rises, seasons that come, life that evolves - on which you have absolutely zero effect - what does your control represent to you? How do you interpret having it?

At the root of this, Randy, is the loss of control. And the question you are asking is basically, "How do I get it back?" The identifying with the experience (both before and after) through primarily a male perspective is just the red herring in the real story. To say it more directly, you think you lost it by being one type of man...so the way to regain it must subsequently be by being a different type of man.

I don't think it's just Randy or even just men who may think this way. I know that as a female, I feel a loss of control. Anytime I'm dumped or cheated on I feel a loss of control, since we can't control what other people do to us. I feel similar to Randy but would never have the guts to act upon it.

At the root of this, Randy, is the loss of control.

Its 100% about control, I agree. I can't control others in the end, but I can control my choices. It all becomes a game of risk management.

The big thing that sticks out to me about the Red Pill Male (and this is not directed at any posters on this thread) is that they are afraid of women.

A life where I am unwilling to put myself out there and be vulnerable, while I am also determining the value of a potential partner by calculating their current eye-candy value. Every woman is not my disaster of a STBXW, and I refuse to look at the world through those glasses.

I have a daughter, and I won't be having a discussion with her about her sexual peak and how that will affect her prospects for dating. What I will do is make sure that she's strong, resilient, and wary of the type of people that would reduce her to a single number on a scale, because they will always exist.

The nice thing is that usually this type of pseudo-psychological excrement is usually reserved for the toilets of the internet, and they are easy to avoid. It's disappointing to see this here.

It all becomes a game of risk management.

Excellent. Your risk manager is in charge now. The part of your brain that was developed between the ages of two and seven. Well done.

Spend some time away from reading red pill, and maybe take a look at Jung, specifically pertaining to the shadow self.

This is the last thing I’ll post here, because frankly the dialogue will become circular and exhausting. There are good points on both sides but:

It is true that women have inequality issues that need to be addressed. They shouldn’t be castigated for wanting to feel like humans

It is true that the issues men face are under addressed or disregarded leading to frustration with the women’s equality movement. Rape is real, so is false rape DV Is real, so are fake DV claims

Alpha and beta are really biological concepts in nature like it or not. But they’re definitions aren’t finite or exclusive, think different strokes for different folks.

I treat people who deserve it well, men or women, but never tolerate bulkshit and I call it like it is, like me or not

I treat people who screw me over unwell, and make them pay, but never tolerate bullshit, and I call it like it is, like me or not.

I am a man, so I know my biases are male oriented. But I love and respect GOOD women, that do exist, just like good men. I care about honest and good women’s feelings.

I don’t respect or like crappy women, but Accept they exist, just like crappy men. I have no problem being selfish as hell with bad women, like my cheating ex wife. She became a hole to me, like it or not. She didn’t like it, but it’s her fault.

I am not perfect but I follow my code of morals and ethics.. it’s mine to create, and to follow.

Humans are humans, men or women, learning to spot traits In either gender is a useful life skill, but be careful not to paint with a broad brush.

[This message edited by nicenomore at 1:36 PM, February 1st (Thursday)]

It all becomes a game of risk management.

Which means you are still buying into the illusion of control.

Yes...we're all quite comfortable with the popular adage that the only people we can control is ourselves. What we don't often recognize is that through our control of ourselves, we still are trying to control other people and subsequently our experiences - the outcomes.

Just the feeling of the loss of control points out that there was something beyond our ability that we were trying/hoping to control - something external to ourselves. We wouldn't feel the loss of control - or a need to obtain it OR better manage it - if we weren't trying to control something we can't.

This is why I asked you what your believed about you, about the essence of you. You control this. THIS. And your beliefs about you at your essence is what will interpret every single experience you have. When you control the interpretation of it, there is then no need to control the experience itself. You get to say what it means...and what you say it means is then what it is.

[This message edited by truthsetmefree at 1:38 PM, February 1st (Thursday)]

Excellent. Your risk manager is in charge now. The part of your brain that was developed between the ages of two and seven. Well done.

Those were my best years.

Those were my best years.

This sentence says more to me than everything else that you posted.

Cool, it took my 5 seconds to think up.

SMS:

You said this:

That is why women only earn .76 for every $1.00 a man earns at the same job.

I said this:

This is a false talking point. The statistic of women making $0.70 to every $1 a man makes is based on total income, across ALL jobs, ALL experience, ALL ages. When you compare the same age, experience, job the numbers are <$0.10.

The gender pay gap is real. I am not going to debate that. Anecdotal work stories are not research, facts and studies. The research and studies done on the subject are well done and solid. The "adjusted" gender pay gap is less than the .76 I posted. These are the facts.

Thanks for proving my point. Your "women only earn .76 for every $1.00 a man earns at the same job" is false.

And, if you read further down that report from Glassdoor you see this:

The single biggest cause of the gender pay gap is occupation and industry sorting of men and women into jobs that pay differently throughout the economy. In the U.S., occupation and industry sorting explains 54 percent of the overall pay gap—by far the largest factor.

Workplace fairness and anti-discrimination remain important issues. But the data show that while overt forms of discrimination may be a partial cause of the gender pay gap, they are not likely the main cause. Instead, occupation and industry sorting of men and women into systematically different jobs is the main cause.

[This message edited by WornDown at 2:57 PM, February 1st (Thursday)]

Cool, it took my 5 seconds to think up.

That says it all, doesn't it? The skill with which you pick out something to argue with, and avoid anything thought provoking in my posts, is actually very telling. Perhaps you should share your new-found philosophy with your girlfriend.

Get back to me when your SMV drops when you're 50. I'll still be here, likely trying to help people and live an authentic life.

Good luck with your emotional manipulation though, I hope it goes well.

Like alot of things in life, their are plenty of logical conclusions from the "Red Pill" line of thinking that based on my observations and personal experiences seem to either be correct or a likely general trend.

However, like alot of things in life, some people take things way to far or outside of the ideals that are reasonable...

I am a different person now then what i was when married. If you want to label me as being "beta" while married then i am ok with that moniker. I did everything i could to keep my wife happy, gave her all i could etc. Never asked for things for myself, never really took a active voice in my marriage. That's on me.

I look at the world differently now. I think that preaching that you should live a healthy life, exercise, make yourself a priority, develop healthy friendships, have some hobbies that you enjoy and work on your self confidence are all positive things. And btw things that women should do as well.

I think putting a woman(or man) on a pedestal and having your life revolving around pleasing them is a unhealthy way to live.

I think having a woman/or man in your life should be a compliment to your life, no the center of your life. Someone that fits beside you in life....

Having said that, and i know this doesn't apply to all women for sure. But i suspect majority/ or over 50%. I think they want a man who is confident, who does not put them on a pedestal, a man who enjoys having them in their life but doesn't "need" them. A man who is not afraid to make decisions or disagree with them, and a man who is confident/and probably at least a little dominant in bed.

My current SO identifies herself as a "feminist" in alot of ways. She see's herself as a very independent woman. And she is in alot of ways. However, she does not like making day to day decisions. I don't even think that she fully realizes this, but she basically passes the buck so to speak. She would prefer for me to make alot of day to day decisions...

She also openly admits that part of the reason she enjoys our sex life so much is that she likes me to be "dominate" in bed. To take the lead so to speak.

My admittingly somewhat limited experience in dating after divorce and sleeping with some women after divorce is exactly the same. Even women that flat out told me the exact opposite, their actions led to this direction...

Honestly, i find/found the whole thing fascinating. I have come to believe that it is something that is at least partially hard wired into our minds both women and men.

Are their exceptions...yep, o course. But i think that at least aspects of this are the norm.

I am not quite sure what your point of your post is, WornDown. I don't know if you are still trying to debate this with me or agreeing. Fact is, there is income disparity between men and women. The chart I shared with the "adjusted" gender pay gap means that the adjusted gap takes into account everything you have bolded in your post and comes up with the 5.4% gender pay gap.

eta: Or, more bizarrely, do you think I don't read what I post or comprehend what I post? And you have to "mansplain" to me what I have researched, read and posted?

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 3:24 PM, February 1st (Thursday)]