SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

This board proves that there are women into casual sex—both betrayed and wayward.

True, Plan C, and when I was young and single I was okay with it. But do you know what? I ran into these "Red Pill" type men. Those weren't the men I would have casual sex with. They were, as I said earlier, douches. Not attracted to them. Just because I had casual sex it didn't mean I would just have sex with anyone.

In my opinion there is a biological basis for women being attracted simultaneously to both “alpha” traits (which suggest good genes and physical safety for children) and “beta” traits (which suggest continued commitment and resources for raising the children).

A great tragedy in human happiness is that most men are not capable of shifting between “alpha” and “beta” as circumstances require.

There's a theory that women want alpha during ovulation and beta the other 3 weeks.

Honestly, I'm more inclined to buy into the 5-7 year itch thing. Couples seem to closely bond for that length of time because it takes two parents to raise a child for that duration. The child would have typically nursed for that time which means the chances of another pregnancy were lower. After weaning, the child was mobile and less reliant on mom and dad.

And hell yes game is lies, bullshitting, bluffing, and exaggerating. But it damn sure works if you're just looking to wet your willy a few times until the truth comes out. From what I've seen, all types of women buy into game. She might not bite on what your fishin' with, but somebody will eventually come along with the right bait.

I think there is validity to the 7 year itch. Hell, by then I thought about it too. But thinking ain’t doing.

I think another big milepost for SAHM is when the last kid leaves the house. Many women question their value.

I also think opposites of the male BS comes into play. I hardly consider myself a beta, but always treated her with respect. The AP was opposite. He was respectful in the very beginning while he was grooming her, but quickly turned disrespectful to her and me X10

The whole alpha-beta-gamma-omega shtick is a bunch of malarkey. Self-delusional, self-serving, misogynistic hogwash.

I have no shame whatsoever is saying I have been cuckolded twice, and no matter how much I would have drug my knuckles and grunted like some silverback gorilla, nothing would have changed my wives' minds from whoring around. Their sexual indiscretions aren't on me. A man might call me a "beta", but he'd only get to say it once.

Beta beta beta

Nana booboo

I just want to thank the many men here at SI, and particularly on this thread, that don't buy into this Red Pill bullshit. Those men are the real men that every women would be honored to meet. Thanks, guys, you restore my faith in men.

Those men are the real men

Thanks for the compliment sms... although I pretty much figured after turning 18 and being male I fit that category... it's the mentality that folks think they can use the term 'real man' that is part of the reason this red pill stuff exists in the first place.

I have soooo many thoughts in my head...

First of all, when did feminism become a bad thing? I thought it was for equal rights? I've marched on Washington way back in the early 90s for equal rights and not once did I hate men while doing it. And I can't say that any of my friends/neighbors that walked with me hated men or thought they were better. I'm sure there are extremes, every movement has them, but don't let that color the message the feminism is about equality, not being better.

Also, I've been to a lot of bars/clubs with women in my life. And I did my share of dating after my divorce. The douchebag men (alpha, weightlifters, etc) are attractive only to the shallow, insecure, or broken women. So if this is what you are attracting, no wonder you think all women are like that, it is a self fulfilling prophecy.

I'm not sure you have only two choices, putting a woman on a pedestal vs treating them like shit. I'm not sure the best women want either end of the spectrum. Although I can't really say I believe it when a guy says he put his wife on a pedestal, what does that really mean? Again, I know a lot of couples, and I can't think of one guy that does what I would describe as that.

Also, I'm a member of many all or mostly women groups, and never have I heard male bashing/females are best talk. Well, other than book club, but that is a small group and the talk is about a couple of the husbands who happen to be cheating. In fact, the group that was formed in response to the latest election, where I would expect the most "feministic" talk, is the most thoughtful and caring group, supporting women and our interests (schools, kids, environment, ect). I just don't see this femnazi that the Red Pill group speaks of.

A jazillion things I could say. I agree with more comments here than I dissagree with.

My H started out as . . . himself. Independent, athletic, friend-oriented, several social groups. Then he gradually evolved into . . . someone who only wanted to please me, say Yes to me, follow me around . . . or fuck around behind my back because he was pissed at who he had become.

Tell me.

Is he Alpha or Beta?

I no longer know.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 6:41 PM, January 31st (Wednesday)]

My thoughts are thus...if you are lying to women to get laid, like one night stands. I can't call anyone a victim. I mean if you are so willing to jump in bed with some random Chad after a couple hours of ego stroking and a few beers than no one is a victim as long as it was consensual obviously.

On the other hand, if a dude strings you along thinking your his GF while he has another on the side that he never mentioned, or worse a wife. Then yeah, that's fucked up. Most of these PUA types aren't calling you the next day, though.

[This message edited by Randy1133 at 6:58 PM, January 31st (Wednesday)]

First of all, when did feminism become a bad thing? I thought it was for equal rights?

I should title this post, how I got banned from SI.

Women have had equal rights for a generation. Feminism has become about advancing women's issues, and yes, often that is at the expense of men. And men's rights movements just don't have the same energy behind them; causing a continual shift in rights away from men and towards women.

" Those men are the real men that every women would be honored to meet."

"real man" is shaming language, it's one of the first tenants of the "red pill". It's a way to shame you into doing something, be it stop using psychological tricks to get women in bed, or to "man up" and do something stupid/dangerous/life destroying. Nobody ever says "be a real man" without some action behind it that's intended to control the man hearing it. "If you were a real man you'd marry me" or "if you were a real man you'd help me pay for my car".. Heard them both in my dating days and many other "real man" followed by some unreasonable ask. I'm happy being a "real man" for me, not so I can prove it to someone else.

Also, I've been to a lot of bars/clubs with women in my life. And I did my share of dating after my divorce. The douchebag men (alpha, weightlifters, etc) are attractive only to the shallow, insecure, or broken women. So if this is what you are attracting, no wonder you think all women are like that, it is a self fulfilling prophecy.

Most men who are following the "RP" aren't doing it to attract quality women. At least I wasn't. I was doing it to have sex with women as quickly and easily as possible. That isn't going to make me any friends on here, but it's true, and that's why I did it. If I hadn't, I never would have met my wife, never would have known how to build the attraction, and probably never would have gotten married. So there are some positives from it. But I was never out looking for "quality", I was looking for someone who was attractive and was open to a short term relationship. Which is what a lot of men, most of the members of this site excluded, are after from women.

My H started out as . . . himself. Independent, athletic, friend-oriented, several social groups. Then he gradually evolved into . . . someone who only wanted to please me, say Yes to me, follow me around . . . or fuck around behind my back because he was pissed at who he had become.

Tell me.

Is he Alpha or Beta?

He was alpha, became beta. It's not a hard/fast thing. You can behave beta and be alpha and vice-versa. What the RP teaches men is the traits that women find attractive so that you can exude them in interactions; and yes, it's exactly the list you gave above. Independent, not "needing" too much from a woman, athletic. Men very often get married and go from alpha to beta, because, frankly, they don't need to mimic alpha behavior anymore and are more comfortable in the beta role. That's me, and it's a lot of men who I know; being an alpha is exhausting if you're not a "natural" (which very few people are), and you can't keep up the facade forever (which is why most of the stuff about this is landing short term relationships).

There is, however a good book for men who are interested in this but want to use it in the confines of a marriage, "The married man sex primer" is very informative about what builds and maintains attraction with women. Yes, it's a lot of RP teachings, but, used for good rather than to just feed your sexual urges. It's a good and quick read; I read it after d-day and saw all the mistakes I'd made, many of which I KNEW were mistakes from my dating days, I thought marriage would be different. It's not; if you're not working towards building that attraction from your W, someone else is, and it's a matter of time.

Now, quite some time from D-day, and firmly back in the folds of RP teaching (with a W who seems and says she's much happier), I wonder to myself, can I keep this up forever? Is it even possible to find a person you can be you with? Or do you just have to pretend with everyone, even your W, to make sure the attraction remains? I guess the analogy for women would be makeup; can you ever take it off and "be you", or do you always have to "put on a show" so that your H is interested? Especially if you stopped wearing it and your H cheated; it just cuts to the core because showing the "real you" was one of the things that led to the cheating. Sad..

Good posts, RIO. I agree with the alpha guy becoming beta in marriage. When you are taught happy wife, happy life, it simply reinforces beta behavior. Getting to comfortable and complacent seems to be a recipe for men getting cucked. Not all, but some.

Brother I aint gonna swallow that pill. It smells a bit too much like manipulation and misogyny. Likely give me a stomachache later.

Be yourself. Know who you are. Don't take her shit but admit it when you're wrong. You can be a good person without being a pushover.

And if she cheats on you, kick her to the curb unless she somehow convinces you otherwise. Cheating's not so much tied to what social formula you follow, it's about who she chooses to be. Unsettling to realize you have very limited control over that, but there it is.

Women have had equal rights for a generation. Feminism has become about advancing women's issues, and yes, often that is at the expense of men.

Again, puh-leeze. “Privilege is invisible to those who have it.”~ Michael Kimmel

At the expense of men? That is why women only earn .76 for every $1.00 a man earns at the same job. And

Although they hold almost 52 percent of all professional-level jobs, American women lag substantially behind men when it comes to their representation in leadership positions: They are only 14.6 percent of executive officers, 8.1 percent of top earners, and 4.6 percent of Fortune 500 CEOs.

These are women's issues I don't see how this is coming at an expense to men.

"real man" is shaming language, it's one of the first tenants of the "red pill".

Hilarious because than Rollo Tomassi goes on to tell you how to be a real man, a Red Pill Male.

Equal pay for equal work is a misnomer. Feminists propose equalnpay for work they view as similar, not equal, with absurd notions of comparability. Differences between male and female earning power is a reflection of women choosing certain careers the market does not particularly value, and based on sacrificing career for family. There are only 24 hours in a day and one can maximize career, maximize family, or do an average job at both. At my employers childless women have advanced at the same level as childless men and men who had SAHM spouses.

Feminism stopped being necessary in the seventies. What remains are folks who want gender to be taken into consideration—as opposed to a gender neutral world. And if the notion of lobbying for women’s interests is valid, so too is men lobbying for male interests.

[This message edited by PlanC at 9:44 PM, January 31st (Wednesday)]

^^^^“Privilege is invisible to those who have it.”~ Michael Kimmel^^^^

There is no question it is a man's world.

If you don't think red pill men get cheated on you are kidding yourself.

Find a woman that fits you. The problem is men tend to go for the youngest and the hottest.

I do not think most men are 100% beta nor 100% alpha. Be you. Live your life.

That equal pay for equal work bullshit has been blown up 7 ways from Sunday. The BLS even did a study that with everything equal, pay btw males and females are very similar.

For example, Mary becomes a teacher while Tom gets a job at a startup company and shoots up the hierarchy. Then he can easily make a horizontal move to a larger company and get a nice raise. Meanwhile, Mary is still getting vastly underpaid because she is teaching and government pay sucks, but she enjoys her job, guess who is making more money.

Then you will point out that Laura was at same company as Tom and they have the same education and are the same age, but she is making less. Probably didn't have anything to do with her taking 2 years off from her career to start a family and needing to leave at 4pm everyday to get them to soccer practice on time...

[This message edited by Randy1133 at 10:12 PM, January 31st (Wednesday)]

And there is a real false rape problem???? I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I'd love to see any statistics compare false rape vs women being raped. Did you not see the me too campaign? Just in my book club, half of us have been sexually assaulted. Half.

I agree with this.

I get why people are scared of being falsely accused. It does happen. It's NOT right. And many of us here on this site know what it means to have our spouse paint the absolute worst picture of us, in order to justify their own horrible choices.

But each time someone feels brave enough to bring up how rape is a real problem, hearing about false rape fears immediately after feels very invalidating. Yes, false rapes are wrong. What else is wrong is this: being sexually assaulted, raped, abused, and being told you must have made it up. Having something really bad happen to you, and having it categorized as "false". It's crazy making. It's why a lot of us who are survivors have such a hard time coming forward. This is probably more common than false rapes: we ARE assaulted, and then we're treated like it's our faults, or like it didn't really happen, and we're forced to keep our traumas inside. THAT is more common than false rape.

I can honestly say for myself, each and every instance that I've been assaulted (and sadly I've lost count of how many times that's been), EACH TIME I was asked what I could or should have done differently, or told it didn't really happen, or shamed for it and told it must have been consensual (the last one is by far the most traumatizing for me). You know who wasn't questioned as rigorously as I was? My assailants. They hurt me, and I kept paying for it afterwards, because people were more concerned that they could be innocent or that they shouldn't be too harshly dealt with, than concerned with how they had done me harm. I was left to pick up the pieces by myself, and I doubt I'm alone in that.

When we talk about rape, and the discussion immediately becomes about false rape reports and the victims from that instead of remaining on the original painful topic, it makes many more of us survivors/victims/sufferers silent in sharing our real experiences and asking for support.

(OK, now back to reading the thread. Sorry for the tj: it triggers me).

OK, just got caught up reading the rest of the thread:

Why not just treat your partner like a person? Why make it a man/woman thing? We'd have a lot more in common if people were willing to refer to each others' good/bad/crazy/indifferent habits as HUMAN habits, rather than assign a gender to them for that gender's eventual stereotyping.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 10:47 PM, January 31st (Wednesday)]