SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Look, the way I see it, Red pill poppers are just damaged men looking to gain some illusion of control.

Steady,

Sounds like our wives must have had the same AP. Yes, same situation here, multiple cheat, and used all the "lines" right out of the handbooks on my WW.

Here's the unfortunate thing; yes, there are a lot of good men out there in the world who don't do this. Let's make up percentages (and these are made up) that 10% of the male population sees women as a hole, has little/no respect for them, and will use them relentlessly to fill their needs without a thought for what happens to them.

So, that means 1-10 guys you run into will be like that, not great odds, but not terrible either. However, when you change that to "married men looking for an A" instead of "male population" the numbers change drastically. Now it might be 90% of the men you meet (again, who are married and looking for an AP) are red pillers to the core and are out to "hit it/quit it". And no, most of the men who come here on the wayward side are in that 90%, but there are a TON of men out there, a lot that I know and associate with that are exactly this:

Through my career I've met plenty of males that I'll just call "shits". They were always on the prowl and appeared to me to be quite successful. At least they bragged about their conquests when with other men and men who seemed to live vicariously through them. I worked with those men but didn't respect them and actually despised them. I wasn't asked out for beers with those kinds of groups because my feelings were well known.

I have work associates who trade pictures of their APs and literally insult them over drinks after a work dinner. And these guys are not the least remorseful about it, they make fun of their APs "desperation" and are happy to play into whatever story it is that will get them laid again. And, like my W's AP, these guys are serials, so unlike most of the members of this site who "slipped up" and made a horrible decision, these guys make that decision on a regular basis. Who knows how many people are on here because of one of these men; maybe my W's AP's other BH's are on here, who knows? Thing is, they account for a hugely disproporiatie amount of the cheating, one "red pill" man might rack up 5 WW's in a year, 50 a decade, a few hundred a lifetime. The damage they can cause is immense.

But, the thing is, these are EXACTLY the men who you are likely to get into an A with. The chances of getting into an A with a "good man with a bad situation/wife" is infinitely smaller, IMHO, than getting into an A with someone who's practiced at it, is operating with a mission/goal in mind and has no moral compunctions in his way to "say anything" to get you naked. That's the part of my W's A that I still struggle with, how could you not see what he was? I saw it in the first minute of reading his e-mails to her; it was plainly clear, which was then later confirmed by his BW (what he'd been doing during the course of their marriage).

I honestly believe, in a substantial number of A's, you're either predator or prey. If you don't know which you are, you're the prey. No, not always, and yes, as many stories here tell us, sometimes it really is a "mistake". But, as a man myself, I can tell you, I operate 99% of the time with a very clear goal in mind. And if my goal was an A, it wouldn't be a "it just happened" thing, it would have been a very active pursuit, likely using all the RP stuff I'd learned years ago to speed things up and get to the thing I wanted.

Short version, don't think most men are like the repentant male AP's who come here trying to fix things. A lot aren't. As a matter of fact, I've NEVER had a man talk to me about feeling bad about having an A, they are either bragging about it, or don't say anything at all. The closest I've heard to "feeling bad" was "my wife left after that one and I miss her". And you're far more likely to meet the "aren't" category than you are to stumble into an A with a "good man" who makes a mistake.

Heartneedsglue beat me to it. That is exactly what I was thinking. Like, “boy, these guys really had a number done on them by some equally broken broad” (because let’s face it, level finds level) “and now they are looking for a way to self protect against all the evil gold diggers out there who are looking to break a nice boy just because they can.”

Thing is, I like a well adjusted alpha male. What woman doesn’t? Seriously, is there any woman who actually craves a relationship with a little boy dressed up in a mans body?

I have to have one because that’s the only partner for me. I am not sure what the heck a beta is by definition, but I think of betas as those guys who actually are not good partners which to my opinion, can’t or won’t earn as much as I do, can’t or won’t work as hard as I do, can’t or won’t play as hard as I can. Any guy who would roll over and expose his belly, figuratively speaking here, is too needy for my taste. But that’s me.

But the key here is well adjusted alpha. And those kind of men of character and strength, I suspect, are not lurking around online on reddit moaninng aboutmean women and fretting over zeroing our and how to never let that happen anymore ever ever ever....simply because they would never contemplate getting to a place of zeroing out. They are out there being freakin’ alphas and getting it done, with a strong and faithful woman of character doing her fair share of the work right alongside him.

All the rest with the online communities teaching “game” just seems like way too much try to me.

I think it’s also easier for certain men who had a cheating wife to blame the ‘predatory male’ for taking advantage of their unsuspecting naive wife. It’s easier than believing that she may have actively pursued the affair because she wanted it to happen, and knew exactly what she was doing.

[This message edited by heartneedsglue at 12:05 PM, February 3rd (Saturday)]

I think it’s also easier for certain men who had a cheating wife to blame the ‘predatory male’ for taking advantage of their unsuspecting naive wife. It’s easier than believing that she may have actively pursued the affair because she wanted it to happen, and knew exactly what she was doing.

Wanting to see the best in your spouse is normally a good thing. Not being able to anymore is just another shit flavored pickle on this shit sandwich.

If that's what a a man or woman is doing, it's understandable. They will only be able to turn a blind eye for so long.

[This message edited by Notthevictem at 1:52 PM, February 3rd (Saturday)]

Now it might be 90% of the men you meet (again, who are married and looking for an AP) are red pillers to the core and are out to "hit it/quit it".

Are you aware that about 27% of men in the General Social Survey admit to having cheated at least once? That's a far cry from 90%.

The words we use influence our thoughts. You made up your percentages, but part of your brain believes them, and that part could lead you astray.

...in a substantial number of A's, you're either predator or prey.

How many readers think 'substantial number' is a lot like 'all'?

I've NEVER had a man talk to me about feeling bad about having an A, they are either bragging about it, or don't say anything at all.

If someone says nothing about having an A or about their feelings, how do you know what they feel? And what makes you think the people you talk to are representative of any population in general (other than the population of 'people you talk to')?

For several years, I was one of a group of road warriors. None of us cheated. I can't draw any conclusions about road warriors from that - the sample is too small and too skewed.

[This message edited by sisoon at 2:25 PM, February 3rd (Saturday)]

I think he meant 90 % of MM actively looking to cheat. Not 90% of men or MM in general. At least that is how I read it.

Heartneedsglue, I was like that to start with. I thought that her AP was a skilled lothario and broke her down with constant attention and pressure. Of course that would mean she was a weak woman not able to fight off the attention and just finally gave in out of exhaustion.

What I learned, of course, was that it wasn't anything like that at all. Apparently he walked up to her office in a way that caught her attention. After that it was all her. She started going to coffee when he went. He would walk past her office to go for coffee so she would know when he went. She would follow a little later. Then there was "happy hour" that she started attending. Then there was other trips to the lounge after work that she arranged. Then she just happened to turn to him and they kissed.

He didn't have to do anything. She set out the parameters and he could ask/demand/expect anything as long as he didn't step over the boundaries she established. He got caught committing adultery with a different woman by his wife through cell phone records. My WW instructed him not to phone her on her cell. He phoned our place once. She made sure it never happened again. She arranged the trip to one of our pastures to put out mineral and apparently she needed his help. She invited him to our place when I was at a conference and instructed him where to park and how to come down the alley so as not to be detected and no light on at the back door, either.

I could go on and on. It didn't take me long using prosecuting attorney grilling to find out she was the mastermind. She wrote, directed and edited the adultery. He was free to ad lib as long as he didn't go outside the general parameters of the script.

I wish she could have invested as much into our marriage. But she was always going to have our marriage because she was never leaving me for him. She tired of him after 4 years.

I think he meant 90 % of MM actively looking to cheat. Not 90% of men or MM in general. At least that is how I read it.

That is, in fact, what I meant.

How many readers think 'substantial number' is a lot like 'all'?

I didn't intend it to read like "all", but I do believe that in nearly all A "type" relationships one is either predator or prey. And if you don't know which you are, you are the prey.

If someone says nothing about having an A or about their feelings, how do you know what they feel? And what makes you think the people you talk to are representative of any population in general (other than the population of 'people you talk to')?

I think they feel "pride" for having bedded another women, that's the emotion that's on display. I never see them say or act as they feel bad about it.

As far as representative of the population, no, they are not. Most of them are road warriors, most of them are between "wealthy" and "rich", and most of them are younger. That's certainly not a representative sample. But, if you're a woman cheating, you have a MUCH better chance of meeting one of these guys because they are serials; each one of them is probably accountable for dozens of cheating wives. It's the butterfly effect, this group of 10 guys have probably, collectively over 100 married women/A's to their name. And yes, my W is one of them, sadly.

I could go on and on. It didn't take me long using prosecuting attorney grilling to find out she was the mastermind. She wrote, directed and edited the adultery. He was free to ad lib as long as he didn't go outside the general parameters of the script.

Exactly my point, in this case, it sounds like 2 "predators" found one another, but, yes, someone is hunting, and someone is hunted. It's usually the man who's hunting, both for "normal" and A relationships; that's just how it works, but of course, it can be the woman as well.

I've been exposed to a group that would exchange names of conquests with each other to hit on. They are real men full of braggadocio and crude talk. Not real men - shits.

My WW was apparently traded around before we dated I've since found out. She didn't/doesn't think so but the facts speak for themselves. Connect the dots.

Look, the way I see it, Red pill poppers are just damaged men looking to gain some illusion of control.

Same. It's like Tom Cruise's character in Magnolia. Powerless men who want the illusion of strength or control, grouping together to try to fake masculinity. I feel sorry for them. I get that some men have been so stepped on that they've lost any semblance of pride or feeling of strength or manliness. The only thing they have left to do is to fake strength by trying to prey upon emotionally damaged women. I pity them for being so damaged, but the damage they inflict on others as they flail around trying to fake power they don't have is as bad as the damage some woman did to them in their past. And since there are always emotionally damaged women around, they have targets. It's just a really tough way for emotionally ill people to have to grapple with life.

So the Lil Rascals—founders of the “He Mon Womun Haterz Club”—were the original red pill boys. Alfalfa, you disappoint me.

Wasn't that alfalfa in that leotard with the tissue paper muscles with the bar bell or was that spanky ?

I admit I didn't read this whole thing. But, the majority of it seems to be that if I am this. Alpha, then I will not get cheated on. Or extreme Alpha, (RP) I will not get cheated on because well I become a player and I will just beat the Devil at its own game. Ummm no. They all get cheated on. It has little to do with who you are and everything to do with who the cheater is. My wife was great. I still cheated on her. Because I was a selfish douche that needed an unreasonable amount of attention. I suspect that many wayward woman are the same. Instead of speculating why they chose to cheat (if their husband was Alpha, Beta, or RP ) just listen to why they (your wife and if it still some BS excuse about you-then she isn't owning her shit) cheated. It is was about them and their lack there of, of self esteem, self confidence, and neediness.

To tell you the truth, I had difficulty getting past the whole women get "played" thing.

Had that person not come along, and not known how to lie effectively to women to get them to drop their panties as fast as possible, the A never would have happened.

Like many know I don't buy into the "I got played" "naive" "my wife was some innocent creature that got preyed upon by some RP male". Now, I am not a wayward female, but a male. I wasn't a RP one either. Though I saw everyone as objects only due to my sense of entitlement and selfishness. But, honestly...they did it because they wanted to. The women are looking for the lie. They chose to accept the lie. They wanted the lie and were married and knew that choosing to chase some BS lie meant being a cheater. The affair happened because believe it or not, your women put themselves out there to get the attention. Not all, but probably most. Sure, there are players that will hit on any woman. But, I bet that most of those woman were secure enough to say "get lost". The ones that cheat either put themselves out there or weren't secure enough in themselves that they reciprocated the teasing/flirting advance of the "player". Giving control to the "player" or if "I was more this..." Is honestly just another way of blameshifting the reality that your wife was just "this"-the cheating type.

Because I was a selfish douche that needed an unreasonable amount of attention. I suspect that many wayward woman are the same.

I truly think this is the primary root cause of most cheating. I can look back and see that my WW needed an ungodly amount of attention. One spouse cannot constantly provide attention to the other. My WW loves compliments on her appearance. Any compliment really - outfit, hairstyle, nails, makeup, shoes, anything really - she eats that shit up.

My WW's COW AP sure as hell wasn't RP. Homeboy put in the work to get laid. They had sex 10 times over 7 months. Lots of lunches and other direct contact with no sex of any kind. She ended the A before I found out. She got a new job. AP stalked her for several weeks. Followed her after work. She pulled into a gas station and said she was going to the police if it continued. He offered her a diamond ring and proposed marriage to her. She said no. That sure as fuck ain't RP. I have come to believe the whole A was a fuck you to me. She was pissed at me and used some asshole to "get back at me".

Hell, folks cheat for lots of reasons. Deadbedroom, loss of attraction, revenge, control, ego kibbles, escapism, thrill of the taboo, validation, whatever. They always have another choice though. Ain't nobody compelling someone else to do something if they don't want to. PUA, game, RP, beta, or what the fuck ever.

Wasn't that alfalfa in that leotard with the tissue paper muscles with the bar bell or was that spanky ?

Just noticed that Alfalfa's name could also be read as Alf-ALPHA!

OK sorry, bad joke.

ETA: Human selfishness is at the root of cheating. I agree. Not any sort of alpha-beta mathematical equation.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 11:06 AM, February 5th (Monday)]

“All the waters in the oceans won't fill a bucket with a hole in it”

― Mike Carey, Lucifer, Vol. 1: Devil in the Gateway

My FWH had a hole in his bucket and resented me for not being able to fill it.

Stayedforthekids, one of my WWs IC said maybe she just gave me the finger and said fuck you. She also told my WW that she could keeping coming for therapy but it would be a waste of money. My WW didn't know what the basis for that comment was but she never went back.

Oh and just to add for arguments sake because both of my APs were in relationships. They started flirting and teasing first. So, for many. It isn't just that some alpha male or RP man preys upon or attracts women. Some women are just the equivalent of RP men. Maybe they weren't with their husbands. Maybe they aren't in their home based life. But, they play the role just fine when they (yes some of your wayward wives) throw themselves out there and fish first. Though honestly, how many wayward wives are going to tell their husbands that they started it and went fishing? I can't see too many doing that. No, instead they will say it was the male. There is always the yin to the yang. RP males. Extreme and players. Extreme players with the females. Maybe those aren't here as often. They might be the bunny boilers that some BS talk about.