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I don't think that anyone can ignore that many women are attracted to strong, confident, leadership men.

When my FWW and I met that is what she said was attractive about me.

In my working life I continued to be. As a husband and father I always deferred to her.

I became beta at home.

When the children left home I think that I no longer was as attractive to my Fww.

She would disagree with this but she chose an AP that was a complete user and narcissist.

He was a very confident POS.

My role as a beta paycheck was no longer that important.

She wanted an earlier version of sam59 not the 33yr marriage version.

The reason men OFTEN favor large breasts in women and wide hips- (good for rearing offspring)...

Lol, bigger beasts does not mean more milk. Just more storage for it. Consumption triggers production. They can both make the same amount.

Bigger breast can be a problem for baby to latch on properly.

There is no truth at all to the idea that the size of your breasts impacts your ability to produce adequate milk.

Wide hipped women can have problem deliveries too, no guarantee.

Sorry, I am not trying to be snarky, but as I work in healthcare, this made me laugh.

[This message edited by shiloe at 9:18 PM, January 30th (Tuesday)]

Haha well shiloe you’re the expert in that field... I can’t argue. I suppose it would be fitting to be more general in the statement that men and women are biologically attracted to qualities that aid in successful reproduction...from an evolutionary standpoint..boobs and hips might have been a reach for My knowledge on the subject ...

I was making the point that alpha and beta are relative and general, as is attraction...but moreover that red pill is taking the generalities to an extreme, almost cult like, seems like an overcompensation for insecurities that all humans have in someway or another...

[This message edited by nicenomore at 9:27 PM, January 30th (Tuesday)]

Women who are attracted to Red Pill's are attracted to douches.

I had no idea there was an organization or theory being used to teach men how to be assholes!!

Just what this world needs!!! More assholes!!!

Basically you can be a follower or you be a leader.

You may might want to follow some schlum in red pill beliefs. Now you’re just another follower. A red schlum pill follower.

Or, maybe, you take your life experiences as just that, your life experiences. You can be a player, you can have been betrayed. Where you go from there. I suggest, does not depend on the color pill you take.

I don’t brush all men as black hearted bastards, but perhaps I haven’t yet taken my pink pill.

I’ll let ya know when misandry takes over my common sense.

Nicenomore, you speak a lot of truth in a very respectful way. Confidence is always attractive, but 'asshole' is the inferior version of confident, the black market rip off that falls apart asap. Real confidence does not come from a place of disrespecting others; it comes from a place of highly valuing yourself (strong boundaries!) while valuing others. Real confidence is actually non-asshole. But those who have some major work to do on the internal thought patterns and attitudes, they look for a quick take on a complex phenomenon.

Boom!

More assholes.

Exactly as Iwantmyglasses says . . . we don't need anymore. We've got enough to last another 20 years! But real self-love and confidence? Now THAT is in short supply.

red pill is taking the generalities to an extreme, almost cult like, seems like an overcompensation for insecurities that all humans have in someway or another...

Yes, I agree.

I am sure you fathers out there who love your daughters just want her to be a good, morally principled woman who finds a good man who respects her, and vice versa.

[This message edited by shiloe at 9:56 PM, January 30th (Tuesday)]

Life is all about the right place and the right time. I’ll be the first to say i am no saint. Nor do I want to be one. I speak my mind and express my thoughts, whatever they may be. And I do think there are times and places to be an asshole. Not letting others disrespect you, standing up for your opinion, and acting with self assuredness Are totally ok. Your spouse cheat on you? i feel that we owe them nothing. And fwiw, I can’t stand when a bs gets walked on by their ws and do nothing about it. I want to shake them and tell them to put their WS in their place. Maybe I’m vengeful, maybe I’m petty now and then, but I am sure of what I tolerate and what I don’t. As a man I have my opinions on cheating wives and how to handle it. In moments like that, I think asshole is perfectly acceptable. BUT I refuse to believe that it is liscense to treat all women that way. Because truthfully, sure. Being an asshole can get you laid. But it won’t maintain getting you loved. Want to punish your cheater, or the AP? I’m no saint I’d say go for it. But don’t let that experience impact how you see the opposite gender in perpetuity. It won’t help anyone

You know what red pill dudes do, but don't talk about? That's right. Fart.

Just saying that everyone has ideologies they follow. I think there's likely a little bit of truth to all of em. That don't mean I'm gonna buy me a new barbecue grill just cause a commercial said 'real men use this one'. You can support part of a cause without joining a movement.

Now, I'll be back in a few. Got some bratwurst that need turning.

The reason men OFTEN favor large breasts in women and wide hips- (good for rearing offspring)...

Lol, bigger beasts does not mean more milk. Just more storage for it. Consumption triggers production. They can both make the same amount.

Note, I have tiny books, but I make excellent milk, fat happy exclusively breastfed babies

It doesn't mean that those things work better, but those traits have been selected for attracting males. We are upright primates, so it makes sense to have exaggerated sex traits that can be identified facing a male. No other primates have boobs. Some have colored butts, they don't make it a better mom, but it attracts male primates more effectively as the are not upright.

Anthropology was my minor, love that stuff!

As for Red pill stuff, confidence does not equal dominance. Sure it can be confused at a bar, but not at home. And there is a real false rape problem???? I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I'd love to see any statistics compare false rape vs women being raped. Did you not see the me too campaign? Just in my book club, half of us have been sexually assaulted. Half. I think we need less men thinking they are dominant over women not more.

I think the problem for a lot of men and women, is not being true to themselves. Reading about an ideology and then trying to be like that will never work long term. Too hard to remember rules that aren’t natural to you. Worse if it comes from a place of bitterness and anger. Just look at any extreme group, all started because of anger and fear and pain.

Be mindful of who you are, be yourself and you will be happier - in relationships or alone. Because trying to be someone else will only force the underlying issues to fester. Wherever you are, you will still be there. You will bring them with you, they are you. The pain should not be what dictates who you want to be.

This was a huge issue with my wh. He’s pretty alpha, and frankly so am I. Due to his successes, I’ve taken on the traditional wife role because I lwanted to and I love it and I could stay home. Luckily, he’s always supported my choice. If I wanted to go back to work full time, he’d support that too. He doesn’t want me to cram myself into someone I’m not. it’s important that I also stay mindful. Not rugsweep, not keep my emotions in, not pretend everyth8ngs so great. It’s not easy, but man is it liberating and less exhausting. Also, if who you are ends relationships, you won’t wring your hands, you’ll know you’re better off and that the problem wasn’t you. This isn’t hocus pocus new age shit, it’s just being yourself.

I think we need less men thinking they are dominant over women not more

Whenever there is a movement that overreaches, there will be a countermovement.

That's why I'm against literacy.

Randy, if you want to live life having ONS and very short term, high sexual gratification relationships, maybe RP is for you. But if you want to keep your sweet GF, you will need to make some changes one way or another or your new found perspective will either hurt her or scare her away.

I'm not interested in living the red pill philosophy of ONS and treating women as disposable or becoming some sleezy pick up artist. There is nothing wrong with that IMO, but its not for me. That's one segment related to red pill. Be as alpha as possible, lift weights and better yourself to become more attractive to women so you can become a player. Not interested in that. They may not want any relationship with the woman besides sex, but they are still living their life (their betterment) because of women. Plus, I prefer monogamous relationships better than hookups. I'm too old for that bullshit.

There is another segment of MGTOW (Men Going There Own Way) that are the different. They swear off all relationships. Women are evil and they want nothing to do with them. They sustain their existence for themselves and become independent. Again, I want a relationship, so not for me.

At the other end of the spectrum is feminism, which is just red pill reversed. Female centric, blind equality without qualifiers and gender roles are bullshit. Basically, you need to be a good little beta chump to play. Not interested.

Rollo Tomassi, writer of the Rational Male, said it best that women should be a complement to a man, not the center of his universe. Women are not to be put on some pedestal. Men should do things like life weights or better themselves, because they want to... not so they can game women. I'm not interested in being some white night or whatever like before. Not interested in equality in a relationship. Like SFTK said, I too enjoy the more traditional gender roles. So just to be clear, I don't agree with much of the lifestyle choices because its not a one size fits all but the philosophy is intriguing and makes sense, atleast from my perspective. Now my emotional investment isn't that high, marriage has no appeal to me, and life goes on if shit hits the fan. Any mate can easily be replaced.

[This message edited by Randy1133 at 8:43 AM, January 31st (Wednesday)]

Like you say...not a one size fits all. They do have several legitimate arguments. I concur with the selective service being gender biased one and disagree with other ones.

I just don't like being rational. Its a lot like work. Laziness is also an option, right? Why get worked up when I can sleep? Just sayin.

Not intentionally but ever since I got cheated on, my laid back nature has turned into a more controlling antagonism towards others, especially women. I was passive before, beta to the bone, now I dream of confrontation. I want someone to insult me or hurt me so I can go off on them. I think of my sweet GF that would never cheat, I always have thoughts of her telling me she cheated on me so I could throw her out and never speak to her again. I like her passive nature and how I feel so strong around her.

The other night I was checking out reddit and perusing the Red Pill pages and I really started identifying with them. Yet I'm the nicest guy on the outside, you would never believe it. Beneath something is boiling. Its always been there, but now its lit. I feel like I'm on roids half the time. Not looking for help really (I hate IC), just enjoying the transformation.

Great post btw. Thank you so much for introducing me to my new favorite "time killer" blog! I read Red Pill Male threads and couldn't stop laughing at the brutal honesties and the humor in those posts. I am now wondering, is there any female equivalent to Red Pill Male, perhaps Red Pill Female or something? I would love to read it and learn how to be more like that. I also think if a female equivalent Reddit existed, the girls would probably have a field day picking apart and microanalyzing my own whiny, "blue pill" posts showing what a passive spineless loser I can be at times.

I can relate to how you want to have an opportunity to exercise being mean and "alpha". I too feel that way. There's also been times where I almost wish someone would do something really bad so that I have a clearcut reason to dump them or essentially punish them badly. There's been too many times where I stay because I don't have the guts to dump them if technically I have no proof or technically they haven't done any "deal breakers" yet. With my luck, in most of these cases I've usually found out later that they DID commit dump-worthy deal breakers, I just didn't know about it at the time. Oh, regret regret regret that I didn't just jump to conclusions and dump them at first assumption.

Thank you for being one of the rare voice to say that you do not like therapy and feel it's ineffective. I've been seeing several therapists in the last 3 years and so far I feel I'm still messed up and still unable to let go of disrespect I've received from exes in the past. But I have spent a total of a small nest egg in therapy and gas expenses to get there. I've had therapists who relied mostly on rugsweeping tactics and letting go of the anger (hasn't worked) without effective strategies for improving my actual situation.

Women who are attracted to Red Pill's are attracted to douches.

Truth.

At the other end of the spectrum is feminism, which is just red pill reversed.

This right here is the crux of the discussion.

Putting people in (extreme) stereotypes and say "You need to be this" to be successful is just bullshit. But it's done every day. It's what sells every self-help book on the planet.

Tell people to limit their calorie intake, limit sugars/refined foods, eat more whole food (meats, fish, vegetables), do some exercise is the way to lose weight.

But do people want to hear that? Nope.

GOT TO BE A VEGAN! GOT TO ONLY EAT MEAT!

It's those extremes that catch peoples attention and sell books. Same goes for the 24/7 news - they put on the extremes to get attention, but what is going to be useful is somewhere in the middle.

Is there truth in saying "be an alpha?" Sure - know what you want and don't be a push over. But don't be a douche, either. (and that's true for everyone, not just men)

[This message edited by WornDown at 9:49 AM, January 31st (Wednesday)]

"I don't care for liberalism, so I am going to join the Nazi Party"

This right here is the crux of the discussion.

Putting people in (extreme) stereotypes and say "You need to be this" to be successful is just bullshit. But it's done every day. It's what sells every self-help book on the planet.

Tell people to limit their calorie intake, limit sugars/refined foods, eat more whole food (meats, fish, vegetables), do some exercise is the way to lose weight.

But do people want to hear that? Nope.

GOT TO BE A VEGAN! GOT TO ONLY EAT MEAT!

It's those extremes that catch peoples attention and sell books. Same goes for the 24/7 news - they put on the extremes to get attention, but what is going to be useful is somewhere in the middle.

Is there truth in saying "be an alpha?" Sure - know what you want and don't be a push over. But don't be a douche, either. (and that's true for everyone, not just men)

Yes, I agree. However, I did find one or two threads on the Red Pill reddit in which a self proclaimed Red Pill Male confessed that he'd been rejected by multiple girls in a given night, even despite working out, becoming less beta, etc. People in the comments section actually thanked him for his honest, humorously written post because it showed that there's no guaranteed "recipe" for picking up girls, that rejections and bad nights happen even to the best Red Pill Males.

Really? Rollo Tomassi? The fictional character who killed a good policeman? Yeah, that makes sense. A POS selling his shit!