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Just Found Out :
Double Betrayal - my little sister!

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 DoubleWhammy118 (original poster new member #62703) posted at 6:32 PM on Tuesday, February 13th, 2018

Long and rambling, but this is my story:

I am three weeks past D-Day.

A little over a month ago, my husband I both began to really make efforts in our marriage. We were kinder to each other, more helpful around the house (BOTH of us), and passionate. On January 20th, 2017, I went out with two of my sisters and my cousin for my sister's birthday. While we were there, my throat began to hurt and I just didn't feel good. The next day, Sunday, my sister and I met my husband at my son's hockey game, went to breakfast together, shopped at the mall and lounged around the house the whole day. My husband was super supportive, catering to me and making sure I was OK. It felt wonderful to be taken care of! That night, I went to bed pretty early, right after the kids. My husband checked me a few times, but was going back and forth between our house and our neighbors/cousins (we live in a duplex and my cousins live in the other half) to watch the NFC Championships that the Eagles were playing in and eventually won. There was a LOT of alcohol involved (cousins are huge Eagles fans) and my husband was also smoking weed (we both do regularly, more so than drinking). Even still, he came to check on me a few times and helped get our daughter back to bed (the partying next door and outside was keeping her up, which I complained to my husband about - he told me I was overreacting). Anyway, he didn't come to bed until I don't really know when and was in terrible shape the next morning. I leave for work first and he gets the kids off to school. Our daughter was not feeling well that morning, and in light of the fact that she didn't get enough sleep, I let her stay home and he took the day off of work. I left for the day and he was still in bed, but was giving our son instructions to get ready for school (he walks to school, thank goodness, I strongly suspected DH was still drunk). My sister was asleep on the couch. I wished her a happy birthday and went about my day. Later that evening, when I got home, my sister was still which is not at all unusual, as she has her own key and frequently does laundry in our house (she is 10 years younger and lives in an apartment). WH asked if I could bring our son to hockey practice since he wasn't feeling well, which I had no problem with. My sister left shortly after I did.

The rest of the week was fairly uneventful. WH and I didn't have sex at all because I started the week not feeling well and then was just tired the rest of the week. WH didn't push but he started getting quite cranky as the week went on, which is usually a sure sign to me that I should put out to help improve his mood. I'm not always in the mood, but once we start, it's always wonderful. Anyway, that Friday he went to bed well before I did. Once I got to bed, I rolled over to plug in my phone and he got out of bed in a huff, grabbed his pillow and stormed out. WHAT THE HELL JUST HAPPENED??!!! So of course I followed him. He said "before you say anything, this has nothing to do with sex". So I said "Well, then what the hell is it about because I am LOST right now!!" He then proceeded to tell me that he thinks we should go see a marriage counselor because he just can't talk to me about our problems anymore. He needs there to be someone in the middle, because it always turns into a fight. I said OK, and went upstairs to bed. I cried and cried until I fell asleep, just having no idea why he was suddenly saying we needed counseling. The next morning, we tiptoed around each other until he found an excuse to get out of the house for a while. We fumbled through the rest of the day, our son's hockey game and then went to a dear friend's 4oth bday party. We had a decent time, it was still awkward, but I was determined not to let this ruin time with my friends. When we got home, we tried to talk. I asked him what he hoped to get from counseling. He stared at me for a sec and said "To beat my monther". "WHAT?!" "Yeah, to beat my mother. I want to be married longer than her." Shocked and hurt, I said that if that was the case, he might as well contact a divorce lawyer. So he left.

At this point I am hysterical. I love my husband more than I can possibly express and I do not want my marriage to end. So I called my sister crying and poured my heart out to her. She said nice words to calm me down, and I did. I called my husband and asked if he would please come home and he did. He said he is very sorry about what he said about his mother. He was caught off-guard and didn't know what to say and he said the complete wrong thing. We talked further and he expressed to me that he had been keeping track of how often we have sex for the past year. The number it self wasn't bad (68 times, at least once a week - this is after 15 years and only reflects one year!!!), but the part he was hurt and upset about is that out of those times, I only initiated intimacy 8 of those times. Shocked at the proof in front of me, I immediately felt terrible! I had made my husband feel like I didn't want or love him! I apologized sobbing. I explained to him that I have felt for many years that, although he is extremely attracted to me sexually and always let me know how beautiful he thinks I am, I never feel like he loves me anymore. When I have asked him in the past why he loves me, his reasons always pointed to my physical attributes. Because of that lack of emotional connection, I did not want to initiate sex with him. But many times if he approached me, I would give in gladly and it would be amazing.

We both cried and hugged and promised to be better to each other. That was in the wee hours between Saturday night and Sunday morning.

That Monday, January 29th, 2018 - my sister texted me about 10 am and asked what my agenda was for the day. I told her that I would be at work until 3:30, then grocery shopping and then my son had ice hockey practice and I didn't know if I or my husband would be bringing him. She said OK and that she needed to talk to be about something and could I call her when the kids were in bed or if he took the boy to practice, I could call then. I said sure, but was nervous. What could she need to talk to me about? We have a joint credit card that I had put quite a bit on at Christmas, but I was paying it. Convinced that's what she wanted to talk about, I even scheduled an additional payment that I couldn't really afford.

I got home that afternoon and my husband was home and able to take my son to practice while our daughter remained home with me. As I finished cooking dinner, husband and son already gone for practice, I called my sister:

Her: "I did something really bad" (starts crying)

Me: "What's wrong? What happened?!" (concerned!!)

Her: "I fucked up really bad and I'm so so sorry"

Me: "What??! What is it, what did you do??"

Her: "My birthday weekend, we were watching the game and you went to bed. I was really really drunk and so was he (WH), and I got upset and was crying. He (WH)was comforting me and then....we started kissing...and...I'm so sorry...

Me: NO! Shut up!!! You're lying!!

Her: "It happened. We had sex. And I knew it was wrong and I tried to stop it, but I didn't and it's the worst thing I could have ever done. And the next morning, I tried to say it shouldn't have happened and wouldn't happen again, but then it did. It started to happen again, but we stopped before it got to that point again...."

Me: "So let me get this straight. You were sad so you let my husband fuck you. And then the next day you felt bed, so you let him do it again?!"

Her: "It was the worst thing I've ever done, I'm so sorry. I understand if you can't forgive me."

Me: "I don't know anything right now except that I will NEVER forgive you for this".

I then hung up the phone. I immediately called her right back and started asking questions. My very first question was about what they did. Oral sex is something my husband is REALLY good at and it's become an important part of our sex life. I asked her "Did my husband have his face in your pussy? DID HE GO DOWN ON YOU?!!!!!!" She said that's mostly what it was". I asked cruel things that made both of us feel worse "Did he tell you how good you taste?! Did he tell you he could drown in you?!" She said "no, no, it wasn't like that. there was no talking. We were both so drunk." I then asked her where....guess what? IN MY HOUSE!!!!!!!!! I again reiterated that I would never forgive her and hung up again.

I needed to wait an hour and a half until my WH got home. I was going to try to wait until the kids were in bed, but I was barely holding it together. I went upstairs and he followed me into our room. I told him to shut the door, and he said "Jeez, this seems serious..." and shut the door. I said, "yeah, it's very serious. I talked to my sister."

Him: "And..."

Me: "AND?! And, I know! (he nods slightly)I know you had sex with my sister. MY SISTER!!!!!!!

Now I am a mess. This is the first I've cried. I stand there, crying and shaking, wanting to scream at him, but knowing my kids are close by I scream whisper. I ask him WHY?!!!!! Why would you cheat on me and with my sister of ALL people?! And you had the NERVE to tell me you wanted to see a counselor?! After you fucked my sister?!! Who the fuck do you think you are?!!!! And he just stands there and takes it. He says he's so sorry, over and over. I don't care. He has killed me! And now not only is my marriage in shambles, I have just lost my best friend and sister. A person that I let into my family. The person I called when I was devastated about a fight the week before. She let me pour my heart out to her AFTER she fucked my husband. The whole incident was prior to our fight about frequency of sex, seeing a therapist, etc. She just felt so guilty and couldn't keep it in anymore. So here are the details as I've learned them (and I've asked for way more than I should:

Saturday, Jan 21st. I go to bed sick. OP/S and WH watch the football game with cousins and friends next door. Alcohol is flowing, and WH smokes way more pot than usual. Game over, they come home and WH watches an NHL hockey game. It's now probably at least 1 am. OP/S asks WH if he wants a drink and he says sure. So they start drinking vodka & tonics again. She apparently starts getting sad about her love life. She feels she has not been treated well by her sexual partners. They discuss my marriage a little, mostly that it's been rocky. WH insists that they never discussed our sex life. Anyway, they were sitting on my kitchen floor, (the same spot where I chop, slice and cook for my family) she has her head on his shoulder and her tears have soaked through his shirt. He tells her that she is a pretty, smart and funny girl that has so much going for her. He puts his hand on her cheek, she looks up and they kiss. They stand up holding hands. They drop hands and she goes into our living room with him following. She stops in front of the couch and he stops behind her. She turns around and they start kissing again. Eventually, he takes off her pants, she sits down and he performs oral sex on her. I asked if she had an orgasm and he says he does not know. Shen the stands up and turns around, kneeling on my couch, and he enters her from behind. I don't know how or when his pants came down. He says that he thinks they undressed himself but he cannot remember the details. He knows she was naked but he cannot remember his state of undress. They stop before he comes. He lies slightly on top of her but to the side while kissing her neck and breast (just one!) and while rubbing her clitoris. This goes on for a bit and then they stop. They both sit up and he goes into the bathroom to finish himself and get dressed. He then comes upstairs and gets into bed with me, passing out. The next morning, I tell him our daughter is staying home (she has now moved to our bed), so he gratefully calls out of work. He instructs my son on getting out the door to school. He probably passed out for a while after that. At some point, with my daughter still sleeping in our bed and my son and I both out of the house, he gets out of bed and goes downstairs. My sister is sitting on the couch (in MY spot, I might add), and he sits/half kneels on the floor in front of and next to her. He said that he looked up at her and they leaned in and started kissing again and then he doesn't remember anything after that. He doesn't remember what time in the morning this was and he does not remember exactly what happened. He is fairly certain that they stopped before they had sex again, but he isn't 100% positive. He also knows that she attempted to perform oral on him. It went on for a minute but he pushed her away. He does not know when this occurred - whether it was during the 1st encounter or the 2nd the following morning. He said that the two encounters blur together in his mind and it's hard to separate them.

So now. 3 weeks post ONS and 2 weeks post D-day. WH has been extremely remorseful and apologetic. He has not been able to tell me much about why. He says he loves me and doesn't want to lose me and is willing to do whatever it takes to get through this. And he's not just talking the talking, he's walking the walk. He has gone above and beyond to show me love and that I am cherished. He has made me coffee and brought me breakfast in bed since a few days after D-day. He calls me when he leaves for work, calls me when he gets there, and calls me when he leaves again. He texts me many times throughout the day to make sure I'm alright. He has held me night after night as I have sobbed. Rocked me and stroked my hair as I tremble and shake. He apologizes to me multiple times a day, expresses his remorse and regret, answers every single question I ask him to the best of his ability. He actually broke down and said he lost himself as a person, he doesn't know or recognize who he has become and he wants to be a better man. He asked if I would bring him to church. I felt that it might be a tactic - I was raised Christian, I insisted we get married in a church and I have an on again off again relationship with God. I was nervous he was asking just to try to get into my good graces, but I have prayed for his salvation for many years. As a Christian, I cannot turn away anyone asking for God's love, it is my responsibility to help him find that. I brought him to church this past Sunday and it was an overwhelming but positive experience for both of us. He felt the sermon was speaking directly to him, his fears and his heart.

He slept in the living room on the floor for the first week. I cannot sit on the couch where they betrayed me and he feels uncomfortable with it too. We will get a new couch as soon as we are able to afford it. I have a hard time being in my kitchen, picturing them sharing a kiss on my kitchen floor. I can clearly picture his head between her legs, her mouth on his penis, his hand on her breast. It is killing me, but I am trying to learn coping mechanisms. Anytime something pops at work with my sister's birthday date on it, I freak out. Did I enter this order while my husband was touching my sister? I think a lot about the night it happened, how he was so kind tucking me in when I didn't feel well and checking in to make sure I was ok. It feels now like he was setting the stage. He swears he didn't plan any of it. Two days after D-day, I started sleeping on the loveseat in the living room because I couldn't bear to think of him downstairs in the living room while I slept in our bed. After all, wasn't that the exact situation when he decided to put his mouth on my sister?!! After a few days of sleeping on the loveseat while he slept on the floor, I asked if he would come back and sleep in our bed. I don't know if I was ready, but I knew I didn't want to be alone at night anymore. I didn't want be up in my bed, wondering if he was fantasizing in the living room about what he did there. He has told me that he has not once touched himself or sought any time of sexual release for himself since the A happened because the thought fills him with shame. Even when I have allowed sexual contact, he says he doesn't feel worthy enough to look at or touch my body. He said he is ashamed all the time, especially when he talks to other married men, because he feels that he is now inferior to them due to his actions.

Over the years, since we moved back to our home state 5 years ago, WH has paid compliments to my sister. If she was dressed up, which she seldom did, he'd tell her she looked great. She recently lost quite a bit of weight (not fat, just toned up and lost college weight) and he's told her how great she looked. He has commented to me that she's the only one in our family (there are 5 of us siblings) that has their shit together. He has been playing video games on line with her and two of my other siblings for a few years. And I have been a little jealous of this. The compliments and the time he spent talking to her, felt like time I was losing. He said he could tell I was jealous the way I would ask if he was playing with her - and this was all BEFORE the A!! He swears they have never had another personal conversation like they did that night, before or after. He says he has never ever looked at her in that way and them playing video games together was nothing more than that. They never even discussed things that friends would.

On New Year's Eve, just 3 weeks before the A happened, I went to bed around 3 am. I was exhausted. WH and OP/S stayed up later and after I went upstairs, I heard them go outside. I had a moment of panic, thinking they must be making out outside. I had no reason to think this, I had no reason to be suspicious. But I was. I jumped out of bed, threw on my robe and RAN down the stairs to the back door. I looked outside and they were there, harmlessly chatting. I felt so guilty for not trusting them and for letting my own jealousy get the best of me. I guess I was justified in my feelings after all. I felt like such a fool when I found out about the A and I told them both about what I had felt just three weeks before on NYE.

From the moment I confronted him, I knew that I didn't want my marriage to be over. I truly believe (although I have not told him yet) that he made a horrible decision that haunts him. He has told me over and over that the whole A was very clinical. There was no emotion involved. I asked him if he thought about me at all? Did he have to talk himself into it and say "she'll never find out?" Did either one of them say,"this is wrong we shouldn't do this?" He says he knew while it was happening it was wrong, which is why it was not at all enjoyable. He knew it wasn't me, even if he didn't specifically thing my name. He became detached.

About a four days after I found out, I texted my sister with a list of all the horrific questions I've had to ask my husband (How did she taste? Like me? Were her breasts bigger or smaller? Were they perky, cuz she's 10 years younger with no kids? Did she put her mouth on you? Did you cum in her? Did you use protection? The list goes on and on...) Then I asked her what the hell she was thinking. Her response was that she said several times "No we shouldn't" but he assured her it would be ok and kept touching her and it felt good so she stopped saying no. Then she said that the next morning she started with "that shouldn't have happened and can't happen again. And then he started touching me again and I just wanted to feel something good." When I confronted my husband with that, he was surprisingly angry. I though he would admit to it just as he had admitted and be forthcoming with the other details. He was angry because he said that's not what happened. He insists she never once told him no or he would have immediately stopped. He said neither one of them spoke and she's either remembering something that didn't happen, or she is lying to make herself sound better and him sound worse. I don't know why this matters so much to me, but it does. It also bothers me that he has NO idea what time the second encounter occurred. I want to know. How long was I at work? My daughter was asleep upstairs!!!!

Neither of them ever stopped to consider that I could come down the stairs at any second and find them together. One of my CHILDREN could have seen them. My 10 year old boy could have walked down those stairs and seen daddy with his favorite aunt naked and his head between her legs. My house has been defiled and disrespected and I no longer feel at home there.

Again, I don't want my marriage to end. I love him, I believe him when he says it was a one time, drunken, stupid mistake. The morning after I found out, I went downstairs, looked at him and said "I suggest, if you want this marriage to be saved, you get off the fucking YouTube videos and start doing your research". He nodded quickly. But he REALLY took it to heart. He has read so many articles, he has started praying, he writes poems for me, everything he SHOULD be doing. But this wasn't some random other woman. She is my SISTER! My 10 years younger little sister that was 11 years old when we started dating!!! My sister, that is one of my very best friends. My little sister who is our children's favorite aunt. I'm already agonizing over what to do about holidays. Our family has always been pretty close and we spend holidays together drinking, playing games and having a blast! This includes our mother's sister's side of the family, our grandmother and our other siblings. I don't want my children to miss out, but how can I bring husband and children, knowing what she did?! How can I get past my husband's betrayal knowing that he laid naked with my sister. And what am I supposed to tell my kids?! I've told her not to contact them (my son has his own cell) and I will tell them that she works a lot. But she was literally at our house at least twice a month. Many times she would spend the night. It hurts so much to think of all the times my husband and I would go to bed and make love while she was sleeping downstairs on the couch, when just three weeks ago, they had sex on my couch while I was sleeping upstairs.

I want my marriage to recover. I love him so much. The first week after it happened, I became extremely horny and aroused. I read about HB. I needed him, so I told him I wanted oral sex. He obliged. It was wonderful. He cried and I cried. Since them, he has assisted me on two occasions and performed oral on another. But on two occasions, one just over the past weekend (2 weeks post D-day), he was slightly on top of my and to the sid and doing the same things he had told me he did to her. TOTAL trigger. I couldn't continue, I had to make him stop and I was a mess after. We have decided that we need to stop being intimate for now because it is more that I can handle right now.

He has said to me that he knows he did the worst thing he could ever have done, he broke my heart, my trust and our marriage. He has extensively researched what happens to the BS when an A happens. He has said he knows what he is in for and if it takes 6 months or 6 years, he is there for me no matter what I decide. He knows that we can try to recover and I can wake up one day a few years from now and decide I can't be with him. He has accepted that. He says he just wants to be there for me to help me grieve and come to my own conclusion. He has not pressured me at all. He says he will continue to talk and operate under the assumption that we will make it through this stronger and better than ever. We have talked about MC and I discovered Mort Fertel's Marriage Fitness. The idea excited us both and we are eager to rebuild a new marriage that is better and stronger. We are going to work toward that goal, even if it's not what ends up happening in the long run.

I feel in my heart that one day this will be possible. I wish I knew how, though. If I can't forgive my sister, how can I forgive him? They both betrayed me. They both destroyed my heart, my safety and security, my home...am I asking all of the questions way too soon? I just feel so lost and hopeless at sometimes, happy and excited at others, and flat and lifeless like nothing matters, the next. I am falling behind at work because I can't concentrate on anything but the A. I just want this pain to go away. I am struggle not to withdraw from my children, but it is so hard when I may burst into tears at any given moment. I have so many questions and not enough answers and I am so afraid I am going to fail and handling this whole damn mess.

There's a lot more that I can add, but this is so long as it is. I am looking forward to connecting with others that have been through similar situations - although I am sad for anyone that has to go through this. I believe what I have read, I must be suffering from sort of PTSD. It's awful, and I wouldn't even wish this on HER, my sister.

D-Day - 1/29/18
BS - 36, WH -36 AP/S - 26
WH had ONS (sort of - night time and again in the AM).
AP is my sister
A happened on her bday.
Wanting R but knowing it's too soon to decide.

posts: 25   ·   registered: Feb. 13th, 2018
id 8093609
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BrokenSpirit50 ( member #34485) posted at 8:53 PM on Tuesday, February 13th, 2018

DW

I'm so sorry you've found yourself here but it's the place to be when you've experienced this soul crushing blow.

My heart hurts for you and all I could do is cringe while reading your story though I have not been in a similar position I am very close to my sister and cannot imagine the horrible double blow.

You have been heard and I am sure the others will be along to be of more help.

Stay strong, post often and take care of yourself.

Married 32 years, together for 40
DDay Dec. 17, 2011
No R, D June 21, 2012

Me BS 58
Him WH 59

Now with WBF 3 yrs. DD#2 June 5, 2018

Truth is like surgery, it hurts but heals. A Lie is like a painkiller. It gives instant relief but has si

posts: 305   ·   registered: Jan. 10th, 2012   ·   location: Midwest
id 8093725
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tikismom ( member #60546) posted at 9:02 PM on Tuesday, February 13th, 2018

What a horrible shit sandwich you have been served (I have seen this posted a lot & it certainly applies here) I am so sorry. I hope some of the more seasoned can give advice. I just wanted to let you know I read your story & I am so sorry.

Me: 39
Him: 43 (NPD)
DDay #1: Sept 2017; Lots of TT & DDays since. EA & PA with an EX. Last known contact with OW: end of December 2017.
Married 10 years, together 15 at time of dday. 2 very young children.
Status: Working daily toward R.

posts: 469   ·   registered: Sep. 8th, 2017
id 8093734
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WilliamM ( member #60910) posted at 9:04 PM on Tuesday, February 13th, 2018

I am so sorry you are here. And to have a double betrayal is heartbreaking. In the I Can Relate section, there is a thread there for those that have been double betrayed. It's called Double Betrayal I would recommend going there and getting some advice from those that know exactly what you are going through.

Have you told anyone about what happened or is all of this between you, your husband, and your sister? I would recommend you and your husband go to individual counseling. Not marriage counseling. Not yet. You need support and he needs to find out why he did what he did? He needs to find out what is broken in him.

Eventually you will have to tell your family something because they will see you not coming to family get-togethers. I am so sorry you are here but you will find support here. I will be praying for you.

All things are possible.

posts: 1157   ·   registered: Oct. 4th, 2017   ·   location: Dallas, TX
id 8093738
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 DoubleWhammy118 (original poster new member #62703) posted at 9:34 PM on Tuesday, February 13th, 2018

Thanks for the kind words, it really helps!

Tiki - That made me smile as a favorite phrase between me and some friends is "well, isn't that the pickle on a shit sandwich!" And boy, does it apply!

William - WH has begun to look for an IC, but I agree, I need to as well. My best friend and his best friend also know. He called his best friend sobbing the morning after D-Day. His friend immediately called me and we talked for hours. You see, his best friend is also BS and is very angry with my WH for doing to me what was done to him. My best friend has been very supportive for both of us, although she is taking her cues from me. Had I thrown him out and filed, she would have backed me up there too. My BFF has actually been friends with DH longer than with me, so there is a level of comfort for him and she is basically there to make sure that he's doing his job to help me grieve and fix our marriage. I have not told anyone in my family. My fear is, that we WILL be able to rebuild our marriage but that my other siblings and the rest of my family would never be able to forgive him or welcome him as family ever again. That would kill me. I am protecting him, but in a way I am protecting myself.

D-Day - 1/29/18
BS - 36, WH -36 AP/S - 26
WH had ONS (sort of - night time and again in the AM).
AP is my sister
A happened on her bday.
Wanting R but knowing it's too soon to decide.

posts: 25   ·   registered: Feb. 13th, 2018
id 8093770
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tikismom ( member #60546) posted at 9:50 PM on Tuesday, February 13th, 2018

You are much too nice. I would blast his ass & make your whole family know what the 2 of them did.

Me: 39
Him: 43 (NPD)
DDay #1: Sept 2017; Lots of TT & DDays since. EA & PA with an EX. Last known contact with OW: end of December 2017.
Married 10 years, together 15 at time of dday. 2 very young children.
Status: Working daily toward R.

posts: 469   ·   registered: Sep. 8th, 2017
id 8093786
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Hopeful30 ( member #44618) posted at 10:33 PM on Tuesday, February 13th, 2018

You mention that you are afraid to tell your family in case you R as they would not forgive him.

How will you handle your sister at family events?

Will you allow her around your children?

I don’t think you have all of the truth yet.

Your sister is saying one thing and your WH is saying something else in terms of the second round of the “ONS”.

And you state that your sister told you before your WH could.

The question is would he have?

And maybe your sister has been spending a lot of time at your house because she liked your life and your WH.

I would be asking about other times when they were alone, flirtatious behavior, etc.

“ONS” are not such a random event. There is usually a lead up to the event with inappropriate behavior.

I’m so sorry you are going through this. It’s bad enough without adding in a double betrayal with your sister.

BS: Me
In reconciliation.
I edit for spelling and clarity
"Do or do not, there is no try." - Yoda

posts: 1027   ·   registered: Aug. 23rd, 2014   ·   location: West Coast
id 8093833
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 DoubleWhammy118 (original poster new member #62703) posted at 11:26 PM on Tuesday, February 13th, 2018

From what they both told me, the only time they contacted each other after that day was to arrange a day to meet so they could discuss how to handle the situation. They both agreed it should never have happened and they were meeting ONLY to talk about how they were going to tell. That was supposed to happen on Thursday night, but apparently she couldnt take the guilt and contacted me on Monday instead. WH actually said that the one think he felt was needed was for him to tell me himself, and she took that opportunity from him.

The different version of #2 - He said he was definitely still drunk tjat morning and the two encounters completely run together as they were similar, but he thinks they didn't have intercourse, and she had something similar on d-day. He said I can ask in him ever day for the rest of our lives and he won't remember anything differently. He said it scares him because AP/S can fill in whatever holes however she wants and he can't do anything about it. He doesn't get angry that I ask, just that he doesn't know.

I have asked WH many times since if he had any feelings for her prior, even just attraction. He swears he never looked at her in that way before it happened. He even said he thinks that if it had been a completely different person and the circumstances were the same, the outcome would have been the same too. He insists that it had nothing to do with her or me and only with his own selfishness. And honestly,whenever she has been at our house, she's rarely alone with him because she's hanging out with me & the kids. He never stayed up to hang out with her except this time and NYE when i freaked over nothing...

As far as she goes...I have asked her not to contact my children. They haven't noticed that she hasn't been around, but I will have to cross that bridge when we get to it. Thats why I am terrified of the holidays. I know she regrets what she did and she said she'd give me time and space and allow me to control the communication, so I'm hoping she will respectfully stay away for a longtime.

[This message edited by DoubleWhammy118 at 5:26 PM, February 13th (Tuesday)]

D-Day - 1/29/18
BS - 36, WH -36 AP/S - 26
WH had ONS (sort of - night time and again in the AM).
AP is my sister
A happened on her bday.
Wanting R but knowing it's too soon to decide.

posts: 25   ·   registered: Feb. 13th, 2018
id 8093871
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MickeyBill2016 ( member #56459) posted at 12:32 AM on Wednesday, February 14th, 2018

Hi DW, sorry that you are here...

A ONS is (IMO) when people meet at a bar or party or event and end up having sex, never to meet again. Having sex with your BIL or SIL is something different, as they have known each other for many years will (most likely) know each other for many more and still felt like it was ok to have sex 2 times. PM and AM. The NYE or other times like that when they were getting closer was a slow unintentional build up to the game-day.

I am not saying it was a long term plan but they both took down any barriers willingly.

Becasue they are saying siilar things they may have coordinated their stories, or it may be the truth. They also say things to minimize the activities. But truly it doesn't matter once her pants are off or that didn't "finish" with her. He was trying!

You sis has slightly more integrity than your WH as she spilled the beans once she sobered up and thought about it.

Hang in there - there are a lot people here to talk to.

[This message edited by MickeyBill2016 at 12:23 AM, February 14th (Wednesday)]

9 years married.
13 years divorced.

posts: 1273   ·   registered: Dec. 17th, 2016   ·   location: West of the 405 North of the Mexican border
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PricklePatch ( member #34041) posted at 1:39 AM on Wednesday, February 14th, 2018

There have been a few posters on here where it was the husband and the sister. In my case I do know my sister wanted parts of my life.

You could ask them to take a polygraph to find out what the truth is. You will never fully trust either of them again. They both lied by omission. So make it a condition of recovery.

That sucks so bad. It also sucks about family events. Super Bowl next year? If she cross the boundaries with your husband what about other family members? Your problem is your husband. High or not he chose to cross a huge boundary that has torn your life a part.

She also crossed the boundary if you buy her story knowing it was wrong but doing it anyway. Saying is this wrong is saying she knew it was. I had to cut my sister out of my life for several years. I made it clear to relatives if she was there I wasn’t. I made it clear it was bad behavior that had caused it. We deal with it by I would go to family stuff from 12 to 6 she would go from 6 to whatever. It was hard. Her betrayal was very different.

Honestly, if your going to say you have to forgive her if you forgive your husband. then she needs to work for it as well. She needs to be in IC, she needs to send you proof. She needs to provide transparency and a polygraph.

BS Fwh

posts: 3267   ·   registered: Nov. 28th, 2011
id 8094000
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TragicFarce ( new member #62192) posted at 2:14 AM on Wednesday, February 14th, 2018

Oh, honey.

It feels like so much of this is trying to convince yourself, more than telling us your story.

I just have three things to say - all under the same umbrella.

1) Trust yourself. Trust your instincts. It is NOT NOTHING that you had such a strong feeling on New Years. Have you ever read or heard of "The Gift of Fear?" Your mind and body have subconscious instincts and understandings that are there to protect yourself. Your subconscious picked up on the signs of sexual chemistry between your WH and sister before you were conscious of the lines being crossed. I promise - you knew before it happened, and that's not as implausible as you think. It happens all the time - a bad feeling before a stranger attacks you or avoiding a train before it crashes. Don't gaslight yourself. You and your husband brought your mutual observation of "something" when you talked about your sister prior to the A. You had a strong feeling you couldn't shake "for no reason" about something that came true three weeks later. That's not for no reason. The A was not just a 12 hour out-of-body experience. They knew what they were doing before, DURING, and after.

2) TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS - you feel you can't forgive but you're so desperate to R...you're 20 steps ahead of yourself. It has probably been the worst three weeks of your life. A wedding takes months to plan. A divorce takes months to finalize. The decision-time for both should take longer than the planning.

3) Trust your instincts. This is a HUGE deal. Not a "one-time" thing. It happened twice.

[This message edited by TragicFarce at 8:17 PM, February 13th (Tuesday)]

amor fati

posts: 40   ·   registered: Jan. 9th, 2018
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kaygem ( member #57956) posted at 2:20 AM on Wednesday, February 14th, 2018

Oh my gosh. I was literally crying reading your post! That isn't just a double betrayal, it's a triple! I'm so, so sorry! You need to give yourself huge amounts of recovery time to heal from this.

And I'm sorry, but I think this is all lies:

He doesn't remember what time in the morning this was and he does not remember exactly what happened. He is fairly certain that they stopped before they had sex again, but he isn't 100% positive. He also knows that she attempted to perform oral on him. It went on for a minute but he pushed her away. He does not know when this occurred - whether it was during the 1st encounter or the 2nd the following morning. He said that the two encounters blur together in his mind and it's hard to separate them.

"he is fairly certain they didn't have sex".. What the what? So he remembered what he did when he was crap faced drunk the night before, but not the next morning. Lies. Cheaters lie, it's what they do.

Reading your post the red flags were going off in my head constantly. I doubt very much this "just happened" and surprised them both. This was a growing affection and this may just be the only time they will admit to.

I would be taking on or both in for a polygraph so fast their heads would spin. Absolutely 100%.... polygraph.

[This message edited by kaygem at 8:21 PM, February 13th (Tuesday)]

Me: BW
Him: fWH Remorseful, doing the work
Dday-3/17 (ONS's)

posts: 1459   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2017
id 8094028
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redrock ( member #21538) posted at 3:29 AM on Wednesday, February 14th, 2018

DW-

I’m very sorry. What a terrible situation.

It’s a roller coaster. You are going to be up and down. I think you are doing pretty amazing.

I agree with others that have a healthy skepticism for both stories. He can’t remember much but knows he pushed her away from performing oral. That is comforting to you isn’t it? It is certainly possible. But the details that seem improbable sometimes are. Don’t let love and the desire to R blur your Bullshit meter.

I don’t know what motivated your sister to tell you, but your husband had every opportunity to tell you and didn’t. That’s his blame to own. He decided to manipulate and bully you with sex counts and the mom talk rather than be honest. She’s not responsible for that. He is. He could have told you and didn’t.

You set boundaries with your sister which is healthy. My approach with your H would be trust but verify. He has a lot of work to do and seems engaged and willing. That’s great. But he also seems to be ‘managing’ the story in my opinion. That’s red flaggy at a minimum.

Welcome to SI.

[This message edited by redrock at 9:31 PM, February 13th (Tuesday)]

I don't respect anyone that can't spell a word more than one way:)

posts: 3536   ·   registered: Nov. 6th, 2008   ·   location: Michigan
id 8094090
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latebloomer45 ( member #18021) posted at 3:54 AM on Wednesday, February 14th, 2018

I am so sorry this has happened to you. There is much help here, even a Double Betrayal thread as William pointed out.

I just want to say, Nothing has to be decided TODAY. Holidays, who to tell, etc. Be kind to yourself and try to get off the hamster wheel. Prayer helps.

And I agree with the poster who said listen to your gut. NYE was not an anomaly. They had a connection already.

Wishing you peace as you process.

Me: BS 56
Him: FWS 58
Married 32 years
Son-26 Daughter (Who Came out as trans, so now Son)-23,
D-Day #1 12/11/2007
D-Day #2 5/23/2008 fucking trickle truth!
Whatever Threnody said, I concur.

posts: 4697   ·   registered: Feb. 1st, 2008   ·   location: Midwest
id 8094106
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RubixCubed ( member #51615) posted at 4:03 AM on Wednesday, February 14th, 2018

DoubleWhammy,

I'm sorry you are here, especially under the circumstances that brought you.

If I can't forgive my sister, how can I forgive him?

There are no set rules you have to obey. They had their selfish time, now this is all about you and your healing. You handle it any way you see fit and deem necessary.Forgive one, forgive the other, forgive both or forgive no one, it's your call. You may want to consider telling your sister not to show up at family functions, she's done enough damage without screwing that up for you as well. You may also want to tell your husband that his drinking needs to stop ... period.

As others have stated, I'm not sure you are getting the whole story. I'd expect there has been at least a bit of lead up to their tryst. That's a pretty big risk on both of their parts if they didn't feel the same i.e. if one made a move and the other was offended by it and told you. A poly would be a great idea to get peace of mind about their stories.

It sounds like your husband may be remorseful and you can possibly work towards reconciliation if you want to. Although, I must say if I was in your situation I don't think I could live with that. Best of luck, take care of yourself, and keep posting.

[This message edited by RubixCubed at 10:07 PM, February 13th (Tuesday)]

"But I'm trying, Ringo. I'm trying real hard to be the shepherd."

posts: 653   ·   registered: Feb. 2nd, 2016
id 8094111
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mharris ( member #46683) posted at 7:54 AM on Wednesday, February 14th, 2018

Edited because I am an idiot.

[This message edited by mharris at 10:44 AM, February 14th (Wednesday)]

posts: 3086   ·   registered: Feb. 6th, 2015   ·   location: North Carolina
id 8094188
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DIFM ( member #1703) posted at 11:33 AM on Wednesday, February 14th, 2018

If I'm reading correctly, he can't remember many things but can be sure that what your sister said about the next morning was not true. He knows what is not true but he is not sure about what is true. It may or may not matter to you right now, but he standard cheater talking points about not remembering is really just simple lying. Cheaters lie. They pick and choose which things to lie about.

I am so sorry for the pain you are feeling and the terrible shitstorm that has been forced on you. Don't rush your healing or your decisions. Like it or not, you are in a fairly long term journey with this, no matter which way it goes. Don't rush the forgive concept, whatever forgive means to you. Whatever pain he is showing right now may or may not be what it seems. Never ever confuse regret for remorse. The first thing a cheater thinks about is how anything they say or do will affect them, not their BS. And the trauma state that a new BS is in can easily misread regret for genuine remorse.

Again, so sorry for your pain. Stick around SI. There may be some things you hear or are told that are uncomfortable, but this is a place with seasoned experts in dealing with cheaters. We have been in the same hell hole that you have been thrown in. You have support here.

[This message edited by DIFM at 5:39 AM, February 14th (Wednesday)]

posts: 1757   ·   registered: Jul. 14th, 2003
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Jpbetrayed ( member #62631) posted at 11:43 AM on Wednesday, February 14th, 2018

DAMN!

You've got a beautiful mind and a heart of gold.

If you're a wayward, and you've changed your heart, good on you.

posts: 50   ·   registered: Feb. 9th, 2018   ·   location: Texas
id 8094237
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annb ( member #22386) posted at 11:56 AM on Wednesday, February 14th, 2018

Alcohol is NEVER an excuse, but you mention drinking in both your posts, is there an alcohol problem?

You were right to trust your gut on NYE, I am with some of the other posters, this ONS is a result of some type of attraction.

My heart hurts for you, I cannot fathom what you are going through.

[This message edited by annb at 6:01 AM, February 14th (Wednesday)]

posts: 12232   ·   registered: Jan. 10th, 2009   ·   location: Northeast
id 8094243
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annanew ( member #43693) posted at 1:23 PM on Wednesday, February 14th, 2018

He lied to you too casually. It kind of seems like he’s done this before. Aside from asking for a counselor, he was just too relaxed and at peace with cheating on you and lying to you for what was supposedly the first time. My guess is that this has happened enough for it to almost be ordinary to him. He’s gotten away with it enough that he wasn’t worried about doing it in your house, he wasn’t particularly worried even when you said you talked to your sister.

I think you should do some digging. Usually cheaters aren’t caught on their first go.

Single mom to a sweet girl.

posts: 2500   ·   registered: Jun. 11th, 2014   ·   location: California
id 8094270
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