SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I would suggest that you take a look at his phone and his email accounts to see if your sister and he talked a lot. I bet you will find conversations they had via social media that will surprise you. I hope I am wrong though.

Thanks everyone so much for your replies. Some of them were very hard to read, I must admit.

MHarris - this is my thread...I think! I am new here, so if I posted somewhere I shouldn't I apologize, but I started this thread.

I've had some further discussion with WH last night (and am sure they will continue for a long time). I told him that I feel like my feelings on NYE weren't NOTHING. I felt for a reason, just as one of you pointed out to, that I could not trust them together. I wish I had told him how I felt at that time. I asked him again, is it possible you had been developing feelings for her all this time and that's what made it so easy to just fall into it with her. He took some time to think about it. He said because he never ever thought he would cheat on his wife, he is having to a long hard look at his feelings and behavior prior to the A because he no longer knows who he was. He said that he's been looking back at our life over the past five years and he is gaining some clarity in how he treated me. Most of our arguments in the past several years have been about two things: my level of contribution around the house and his need to feel more connected to me physically. Whenever we would argue, he would speak his mind and then when I tried to speak mine, he would shut me down and say "All this is going to do is lead to a big fight, I don't want to talk about it anymore" and I never got to express what I was feeling. Which was that, although I could tell he wanted me sexually, I didn't feel that he expressed any love towards me. I was looking for unconditional love but felt that his love was conditional upon our sexual relationship being strong and healthy...which made me NOT want to initiate or connect with him in anyway. Basically, we stopped effectively communicating with each other. Over the past several years, WH has had some job issues that I think really damaged his self esteem. He became withdrawn, cranky and quick to anger. When he was cheerful it seemed forced. He was definitely not a happy man. So back to how he was feeling on NYE and in the time leading up to the A. He still says that he was not have any feelings for her, but maybe subconsciously there was a comfort level there that made the A possible. He was willing to admit that, but he still maintains that there was no plan, no inappropriate conversation prior to the A. I really believe that to be true because prior to NYE, I never felt anything like that before. Looking back now, I remember the weekend of the A, we went to my son's game and she grabbed one of WH baseball caps to wear because it was cold. She never wears hats. That's such a "girl with a crush" thing to do. Is it possible that they both had developed subconscious feelings? Or one did and the other didn't (doesn't matter who, they both were OK to do the deed)? What I am starting to think is that my sister, who develops attachments to men easily (she has fallen for 2 co-workers - the only 2 men in her approximate age range, although one was her boss and closer to my age), started to develop feelings for my husband. The night of the A, she was distraught and he was there for her, strengthening her feelings. My WH, depressed, probably lonely (his own making, I was always right there and he has said this to me - I forgot to look for you, I forgot what we had, I forgot who I am and who you are and who we are), was there for her because what guy can resist a damsel in distress? Because of the level of comfort they have built and maybe her possible feelings for him (or theirs for each other), it brought all the walls down. Add in a ridiculous amount of vodka and marijuana and the stage is set.

Again, I am not justifying their behavior. I am looking for the WHY? Why the fuck did this happen to me?! Why did they do this to me? Why did he need someone else? When I say I want to work towards R, please do not mistake that for me being ready to make that decision now. It's my first instinct. This man is the father of my children, he has been my best friend for 15 years, he has been my rock and shelter when I needed him. He shattered all of that, but that doesn't mean I can turn off those feelings and walk away. As a Christian, I believe in second chances - but as a BS, I just don't know if I will be able to get past it. We talk about R as if it will happen, because we both need some positivity right now. But we both know that there are no guarantees. We are being as realistic as possible.

To whomever says that they feel that this is not an isolated incident (OK, two incidents), that's another thing I just have to trust my gut on. Y'all are telling me trust my instincts and my instincts tell me that this was it, their PM and AM encounter. And really it was AM and AM because the 1st was probably around 3 in the morning.

MY WH is not on ANY social media, he has always hated it. I have searched his email, his email trash and his text messages. I compared our phone bill to his text messages and phone calls. The only texts on our bill matched texts between them that were "Hey, are you playing Call of Duty? Want to play?" Usually that also involved my brother, another sister and my brother's fiancé. I spent hours combing our bill for her number and I was able to account for every single one and all were harmless. He has opened everything to me, phone, email - everything. The times that they did play games together online, I was actually in the same room watching tv, so I know they didn't talk about anything personal, just the game. I know this doesn't mean that there weren't other times they played, I just don't think anything inappropriate has ever passed between them consciously, prior to the A. I know I need to see how he does in the long term, but right now he is doing EVERYTHING a WS is supposed to do.

For whomever said he is too casual and blasé about the A, you are not here to see him, so I must respectfully disagree. I have seen the torture and despair on his face, he has cried and sobbed with me - and I haven't seen my husband cry since his grandmother died 12 years ago. This is not an act, you guys. You can't fake that kind of pain. I'm glad he's feeling it. He deserves to feel it. And he TELLS me he deserves to feel it.

Someone pointed out that maybe I WANTED to believe him when he said he pushed her away when she tried to perform oral. And it's funny you say that, because I said the same thing to him yesterday. I asked him again about that part, and asked him to confirm that he stopped her from that. Was it because it was bad or because it wasn't me, or just because it was time to move on to the next phase. He said that he didn't "push her away" so much as to stop her and move on to the next thing. That hurt to hear, but I even said to him, I feel like interpreted your words as you pushed her away because it was bad, because it wsn't me. I heard what I wanted to hear. I also asked again about the connection. He keeps saying there was no emotion in it, wasn't like when we make love, it was really just sex. I think I tried to equate that in mind to "it was bad sex". So I needed to talk about that. So I asked, did it feel good. He said, again, there was no emotional connection whatsoever. He knew what he was doing wrong and he doesn't know why he didn't stop. He said, "it was sex, so I can't say it felt BAD. It felt good and that's probably why I didn't stop, and I know that hurts you to hear, but it also felt wrong I'm so sorry."

Someone asked if there is an alcohol problem. I wouldn't say a problem as in WH is an alcoholic. We both smoke marijuana daily. But when he does drink (Not often) it is usually in excess. He doesn't have a stopping point - usually when I say it's time to go home! He actually asked me that a few days after D-Day. Do I think he has a problem with alcohol. I told him it's more important what he thinks but that IMO, you just don't know when to stop and then you get a little outta control- depending on what you're drinking.

Sorry all of my posts are so long. Writing everything down is helpful. I am trying not to feel defensive over some your responses. Please be gentle! LOL

[This message edited by DoubleWhammy118 at 8:04 AM, February 14th (Wednesday)]

[This message edited by DoubleWhammy118 at 8:03 AM, February 14th (Wednesday)]

[This message edited by DoubleWhammy118 at 8:15 AM, February 14th (Wednesday)]

What were his reasons for not “finishing” with her and in the bathroom instead? That part seems very questionable.

It’s good that you’re seeing emotions from him, but do you feel it’s remorse or regret from having to own up to it?

JPBetrayed - thank you, so sweet of you to say. I feel right now like my mind is mush and my heart is made of lead, but I appreciate your kind words.

Happy Valentine's Day everyone! What a shitty holiday.

WH made me breakfast in bed as he has been since a few days after D-day. He has said he plans on doing this for the rest of our lives so that neither one of us ever forgets or doubts how much he loves me.

Pretty words. Hard to hear, easy to WANT to believe, but not so easy to accept.

Cometgirl - I'm not really sure. I asked her right away if there is ANY chance she could be pregnant and she said no, not at ALL. I don't know if she's on BC, but I know they did not use protection (we are waiting for the results of STD testing, which he voluntarily went for a week after D-Day). I asked him if he came on her stomach, her ass, where? He said in a tissue in the bathroom. I don't know why he stopped and didn't finish with her.

Maybe it's both? That's hard for me to say. I do know that he is in genuine pain. I have asked him several times if he would have told me if she didn't tell me first. He says he'd like to think he would have but he really doesn't know for sure. I appreciated that honesty, actually. He said the plan, in his mind, was to talk to her about HOW they were going to tell me. Should he do it alone or should they do it together (he was leaning towards alone, he says). He said he knew at that point that he had really ruined everything and he was terrified of losing me. He did not try to initiate sex with me at all that week, thank GOD!!!! We have not had intercourse since the A and if we ever do again, it will not be for a long while. Anyway, he has said several times that he wishes he had been the one to tell me. Part of me thinks that she told me first because she was afraid if they met up to talk, it would happen again. He SAYS he had no such thoughts.

Support for you however you need. I understand how each betrayal is different and trusting your gut is important. If you sense deep and sincere empathy from your spouse then that is a positive thing. The perspectives and suggestions from others here very much from their truth and experience, likely much will apply to you even if you are not aware, but no doubt you will get input and opinion that will be well intended but not directly applicable to some details and nuances of your personal experience.

One day at a time.

Does anybody feel that this could have just been two very drunk, very lonely people that felt comfortable enough with each other to do something terrible together. They clearly both know now that it was wrong, but based on the conversation they that night, they both had a very low opinion of themselves. From an objective point of view, perhaps they felt it was what they deserved - something dirty and wrong wrapped in something that felt good?

Again, please understand I am not trying to justify or excuse their behavior, just trying to make sense of it all...

Once again I am sorry your here.

In my counseling sessions both ic and limited mc. For me to have sex I need to feel loved by my husband for him he feels love after sex.

I have been told don’t know if it is true or not that is how it is in most long term relationships.

Boundaries are a clear issue, check out Not Just Friends by Dr Shirley Glass.

I am not trying to tar and feather your sister but she needs to read it as well.

Please consider telling your other sister so she doesn’t find herself in the same situation.

DIFM, thank you so much for saying that. When I posted yesterday and started seeing some of the responses, I felt I had made a mistake and that these responses from other BS's would only serve to undo the progress I've done and make me start to question things all over again.

But now, especially after your post DIFM, I am understanding that these are people's feelings based on their own experiences. I respect you all and the pain you have endured so much, and I promise I will consider what every one has said. I need to remember that, even though my husband feels like a stranger to me right now, somewhere deep inside is the person that I fell in love with 15 years ago. Truly, if I felt that he was not being 100% forthcoming in every way that he can, I would have already thrown him out.

I have seen the torture and despair on his face, he has cried and sobbed with me - and I haven't seen my husband cry since his grandmother died 12 years ago. This is not an act, you guys. You can't fake that kind of pain.

I want to caution you about this. As I have told others, we have had people put on Academy Award winning crying performances to prove they are "remorseful" and the whole time it was a lie. Crying is not remorse. His actions over the course of time will show you if he is truly remorseful.

(we are waiting for the results of STD testing, which he voluntarily went for a week after D-Day).

Please remember that it takes more than one round of testing. He'll need to be tested again after 3 months and then again 6 months after that. Since you've engaged in sexual activities with him, you'll probably need to be tested as well.

Prickle Patch - I have read the same thing, and after everything my husband and I have gone through, I definitely believe it. It's that difference in emotions that have caused most problems in our marriage.

Does anybody feel that this could have just been two very drunk, very lonely people that felt comfortable enough with each other to do something terrible together.

I always have trouble with this way of thinking for two reasons. First off can you see being so drunk, stoned, and sad that you would have sex with someone you were never attracted to, thought of as a friend/relative? Say WH brother, cousin, your brother... Next you have to add in that they did it twice. It's hard to blame the excess drinking, drugs and sadness when they must have sobered up a good amount. He was making "good choices" getting your son off to school... but found himself with your sister again??/

I have to say, I am so sorry this happened to you. To have those two people betray you so much. Take your time and heal.

Hi DoubleWhammy -

I just wanted to say that getting over this horrific affair will take you 2-5 years on average, maybe more. Do not forgive so easily yet. Infact, you do not have to forgive either of them, and they will have to accept that. I have NOT forgiven my husband for the affair he had 4 years ago, and I highly doubt I ever will.

Just wanted you to know that you aren't required to forgive either of them. You're probably still in such a state of shock, it may take you 6 months to finally start seeing clearly again. Take your time on any and all decisions going forward, and definitely get yourself into IC.

Hugs to you. I'm so sorry they did this to you.

Lieshurt - I promise I will be cautious. He knows I don't trust him.

Thank you for the info on STD testing. I did not know he would need to be tested again. I thought I should go for testing since we have been intimate (although no intercourse).

Does anybody feel that this could have just been two very drunk, very lonely people that felt comfortable enough with each other to do something terrible together. They clearly both know now that it was wrong, but based on the conversation they that night, they both had a very low opinion of themselves. From an objective point of view, perhaps they felt it was what they deserved - something dirty and wrong wrapped in something that felt good

I am so sorry you are here. I really don't post much, but your situation pulled at my heart strings as everything is so similar to my experience with the exception that AP was my friend and not my sister.

I absolutely think that this may have been two drunk people who made a mistake. This is how my WH affair started, however, when I confronted, he was so caught off guard with the depth of my instincts about it, he panicked thinking I would leave him immediately, and I was lied to.

I also think that you sister was right to not meet up with your husband to "talk" about what they should do. It most certainly would have lead to another incident. Although she is the AP, and made a very terrible choice to get involved with your husband that night, I would actually commend her on her honesty at this point. I'm definitely not giving her the get out of jail free card, but her honesty with you ensured that this would not happen again.

The double betrayal is a serious shit sandwich. The mind movies can be excruciating. You also are not only grieving the loss of the most sacred part of your marriage, but also, the loss of your sister in this case.

Take it day by day. I'm 15 months out from DDay, and while the roller coaster has leveled, there is still a lot of pain, anger, and grief in the process.

[This message edited by Puglife920 at 9:58 AM, February 14th (Wednesday)]

What does your support system look like? Who can you talk about this with that isn't your husband? Do you think you'd benefit from some time away from him? It may seem counter intuitive, but a weekend to yourself, maybe get an AirBnB somewhere, could do you some good to clear your head. It's hard not to throw yourself onto a path to R because that gives you something to do and a goal to achieve rather than just stewing in your pain and betrayal.

You just had a major surgery on your marriage, you're not ready for physical therapy yet. You need to stay in bed and rest (metaphorically), this is so brutal.

He says he wants to bring you breakfast in bed every morning for the rest of your life...I can't imagine choking down sad scrambled eggs, bad husband bacon, and sorry I fucked your sister OJ 20 years from now.

Your sister definitely has issues with attachment, boundaries, men + validation. I don't think that relationship is salvageable and your story supports her being the aggressor, but your husband is a weak man. It almost makes it worse. Weak. He could dish alll the criticism in the world on you, but couldn't take a whiff of your unhappiness. Now gets to be the white knight and serve you til the end of your days! He let your sister get to you with the news first. I don't think he was a sad sack lonely man who found comfort in your sister's arms on accident. I think he is a weak man who couldn't turn down some easy pussy or "a damsel in distress." He took the easy way out to feel "manly." Coward.

[This message edited by TragicFarce at 9:51 AM, February 14th (Wednesday)]

Puglife - I am sorry that you had to go through something similar. This is just BULLSHIT!!!

Maybe I am just looking for a way to make it more palatable in my own mind, but I do think that the first time was a drunken bad decision. I had a long talk with him this morning about encounter # 2 the following day. He said that it's not that he doesn't remember anything. He remembers how it started the second time, but the acts themselves blur together with the previous night. Because he cannot definitively remember whether or not they actually had intercourse, he said he has to assume that they did, even though he doesn't think they did. Ugh, fucking asshole.

Talk about a perfect storm. All the things that had to happen in order for your H and S to hook up.

-They both needed to be pretty drunk but not so drunk to not pass out or be able to perform.

-They both needed to be in a mental place that having sex 2x was a good idea, or one needed to convince the other that is was ok.

-Neither shut the other down as lines were crossed.

-There was a location available for them to use.

-They were alone in the house more or less.

-Neither had a flash of reality sobriety to say stop.

-You were not feeling well, and out of the picture.

He admitting he stopped the BJ in order to do some other activity and then to finish in a tissue is so weird that it has to be true.

I loved my sister in law, like a sister. Maybe at random times I thought I might have married the wrong sister and maybe sometimes she was a little flirty. But the chance of the stars aligning enough for us to hook up was between zero and none.

While this is most likely the first time for them there was probably unintentional taking down boundaries for a long time, for both.

Don't let him blame shift