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I wouldn't worry too much about how you told the kids. There is never a good time, or a perfect thing to say, you can only do the best you can. Maybe "might separate" is confusing but so is something more definite... when they see you together. You can't promise them that you Won't separate... so the other choice would be not to say anything but... It sounds like the kids already knew what was going on so avoiding the discussion would only cause them to worry and fester and feel that you are keeping things from them. All and all I think you did good with your talk.

Know that you've got to be anxious right now, saying a prayer for you.

Hi.

How did her parents die?

I think you need to have another serious talk to her NOK/Uncle

In reference to her expressed suicidal ideation and reckless behaviour.

She is very destructive.

Something is amiss here. Not advising you to stay, but there appears to be some serious psychopathology, that may need to be urgently referred/treated.

Any future expressions of suicidal ideation, must be referred to the police, immediately, for emergency, compulsory assessment and treatment.

Any of her family suffer from mental illnesses/disorders?

Cheers

Ron

WW found her way home. I met with my therapist beforehand, who thought I should ask her in person so seek psychiatric help. She had some emotional trauma from the deaths of her parents and untreated post-partum stuff. When I told her I I wanted her to get a shrink, she seemed to meet my request with appreciation and a sort of “why the fuck didn’t you say this years ago” kind of attitude. I told her I was sorry she felt that way. She told me she would seek help and then told me that I had problems too. I informed her I was already in therapy and that I could take 50% of the blame for marital problems but 0% for her affair. She said she was sorry for what she did but her eyes said “sorry, not sorry”. It was a step in the right direction because at least she made eye contact. She would only look away when I spoke previously. There was a lot of uncomfortable silence which was okay, I need to learn to deal with that. I am keeping clear of her as much as possible. I took the kids and went to her movies, the mall, and now dinner. I don’t want to talk more about this for now with her. If she wants to talk I will listen. Ofherwise I will just follow the 180 steps best I can.

At the mall we saw her aunt and two cousins (my kids in tow). They asked about her trip and I said I was surprised she ended up in Sydney. They were shocked. I think they noticed I’m not wearing my ring. They asked if I was excited to see my WW and I said “the kids sure are! We can talk about this another time”. Super awkward! They will figure it out soon because I’ve already told most of her family (for better or worse).

[This message edited by anon789 at 4:39 PM, March 17th (Saturday)]

You're doing great Anon789. Just stay the course and keep to the 180. Hang in there.

Sounds like she's already detached all the way from you.

Well done!

You handled the situation well.

There is no mental illness in her family. Her dad died in late 50’s of metastatic lung cancer. WW lost all her inheritance, family home, and belongings when he signed all over to unliked step-mom the day before he died. Her mom was always sick as a type 1 diabetic had her first heart attack at age 39. WW grew up taking care of her mom. She went on dialysis and died a a few years back in her early 60’s. These were huge unresolved issues for WW. Also I have mentioned before she never was really treated for TRUE suicidal thoughts she had after the birth of our 3rd child.

Then there is me. I am a faithful stable husband, but I deal with a lot of shit at work and I don’t bring it home. Probably an excuse but WW says I “don’t tell her anything”. I have seen babies shot in the chest and young mothers die suddenly, you name it. I do get mildly depressed from time to time, but I intentionally don’t bring work home with me. I don’t understand why she resents that? Is that why she is dressing as a doctor and saying her co-workers want her to get out on a date? (her co-workers are our kids).

[This message edited by anon789 at 4:56 PM, March 17th (Saturday)]

Anon

While it’s good if she gets herself into therapy, unless she stops the affair, and starts acting Remorseful and starts taking steps toward R then that is really not on you to shepherd.

I think you still need to be very clear with her and tell her that you consider that she’s still actively having an affair so therefore you will be taking steps to legally terminate the marriage she ended by her actions. Remember she did not skip seeing him. She went at him full force.

If you are not clear about this to her then you will just continuously live in limbo.

You deserve a faithful loving wife like you are to her. Please don’t live with less than you deserve.

There was a lot of uncomfortable silence which was okay, I need to learn to deal with that.

Anon789,

Just try to remain silent and let her fill the conversation void. When you speak up you just give her a chance to tell you less and likely divert the topic somewhat. I had a real hard time with this myself, and I think I have a decent handle on it now. You will get much more info(and appear stronger/maintain 180) if you can just stay silent through the awkward silences.The more awkward the better.

what is your end game, Anon ??

Sounds like you are spinning your wheels.

hey my parents died very young as did my brother.

The mental excuses are just those, excuses. If she was that mental, you would have noticed it a long time ago.

Your asking her to get treatment, to her, meant that you are willing to look past what she did.

You have no endgame and she is in the drivers seat.

You need to be decisive and either end this sham of a marriage or get out the broom and help rugsweep. Anything in the middle is limbo, a very bad place to be

BTW, I would advise against rugsweeping

[This message edited by Western at 7:11 PM, March 17th (Saturday)]

I do get mildly depressed from time to time, but I intentionally don’t bring work home with me.

There are so many other things going on, this is something I ran into with my xWW years ago. I am not a doctor, have a regular job in the creative arts but she said I was shutting her out of a large part of my life (work) mostly because I did not think she would be interested...turns out she was at the time. And she thought I did not care about her enough to talk about my day.

Your wife pretending she was a doctor is possibly telling in that she was jealous of your successful career and her lack of one.

In the end she found a vendor at work, she was the business manager and he shared a lot with her...

Hang in there! Keep strong.

[This message edited by MickeyBill2016 at 8:00 PM, March 17th (Saturday)]

At least no fireworks in front of the kids. Seems to me she wants to present herself as attractive, successful, maybe throw in some poor me, I work too hard, need some fun in my life so friends suggest I should blah blah blah. A made up life to seek attention.

But she has a great life that she's actively destroying. It's sad.

If you stay strong and give her nothing to rage about I think it's good. I know it's hard.

Anon:

As you reflect this evening on what has transpired over the last two weeks I agree with Western that it is important to know what’s your end game. You indicated earlier in this thread that you have a plan, and that plan would result ultimately in your WW being a safe parent for your children. Fine. But at what cost.

Your WW has just completed her fourth trip to NZ to continue a sexual affair with an OM, and on the most recent trip she pilched funds from your children to finance the trip. You are a really nice and intelligent guy. That comes through loud and clear. You have admitted that you are a non confrontational guy, I am too, but there are limits. You have intimated that you have been intimidated by your WW throughout your marriage. You go along to get along because it beats getting your head bashed in at home, which would only compound the stress you get from the very stressful profession you have. (Believe me, I appreciate everything you go through to help people. So at home you have let your WW rule the roost and she relishes that role.

You told your WW if she went to see OM during the trip the marriage would be over. She ignored you. You told her to only contact you about sleeping arrangements, coparenting, and scheduling with your children. She ignored you. She dresses up in your stethoscope and mocks you in photos sent to the OM. Your lawyer tells you she went to Sydney just to demonstrate that she is in control. You respond that it’s funny because you are the least controlling man in the world. She knows it, and she’s rubbing your face in it. She flaunts a necklace in your face that the OM gave to her.

You read her texts and look at the photos she sends to the OM and state she is insane or psychotic. She isn’t. She knows exactly what she is doing and it has nothing to do with mental illness. I have been around people like this all of my life. She is an emotionally abusive control freak and bully. She is incredibly cruel. I am going to offer an opinion that may be way off base, but I believe that this A and the trips are just part of a power play to show you she can do what she wants whenever she wants to do it. I don’t believe she has any romantic interest in the AP. This is her fun and gets her away from those awful children and off to exotic places with some kinky sex thrown in for good measure.

When she returns you offer her the excuse of mental illness and she simply mocks you as “ of course that’s my problem, where have you been”. She offers a half hearted and defiant “sorry” for having an affair. If my WW had shown such pathetic remorse for her infidelity, I would now be going on over three decades divorced ( and believe me I was conflict avoidant), instead of 34 years happily reconciled.

I don’t know what your plan is, or what your final goals are for your marriage. But I do know that at some point you must demand respect for yourself, because if you do not, she will not stop disrespecting you and your children, and she will literally grind you into dust.

Can the marriage be saved. Possibly. That’s up to your WW and right now she’s not remorseful and she does not respect you. Other than implementing the 180 and telling a couple of her relatives, what consequences has she suffered? She can’t wait to see a psychiatrist and tell how awful her marriage is. This is difficult business but you have come a long way and you never know, if you demand respect from her, however you define it ( filing for D, actually getting angry and telling her off, actually limiting your discussions with her to children’s schedules, coparenting, etc as you said you were going to do) you never know what reaction you may get. But can it be any worse than the WW you have now?

Sorry. Wrong thread

[This message edited by justamadman at 9:01 PM, March 17th (Saturday)]

Frankly, I'm not sure how you are looking at her, much less staying in the same house. I just ,, could not. Good luck to you and your children.

Anon, all three of my kids were non-confrontational but had to learn to be assertive because of their very intense jobs. They are all in management and have had to make tough decisions. They all three said it was difficult at first because that was foreign behavior for them. Now they say they can stand tough when it is needed. You can learn this behavior but it takes time and help from a therapist. You need to get some backbone because your home is toxic for you and your children.

Fareast and Western, you are pretty close to the absolute truth. She really isn’t crazy (maybe a little depressed and jealous of my career but not really insane). She is manipulative for sure.

Tonight after the kids went to bed she came over to me and started to cry (there were even a few tears). She told me how sorry she was and that I was the best thing that ever happened to her. She said seeing her friend’s parents made her miss her dead parents (sympathy play FTW!). She then told me she bought tickets for us to fly to Scotland for our anniversary in July a “couple months ago” (I saw the confirmation email come through her old phone last week while on the A). I told her we had about $25 to our names and we had to take this day by day. Then I told her I had some work to do in the basement and left and she went to bed.

A few thoughts from me.

1) This was at least a half-hearted attempt at remorse.

2) I am jaded as fuck (I have suspected people of just trying to score pain medications only to find they have broken their femur) and wonder if this colors my interpretation of her for you all (probably not too much).

3) She has not told me anything about the A and I don’t intend to ask for the moment. I am following the steps set forward in the 180 and it seems to have some effect. Rome wasn’t built in a day. I have patience and have decided to move on with my life without her... just not to divorce her. I think she will realize that. I have planned a number of trips and places to disappear to on my own when I have week days off. Just by ignoring her for a few hours she has started paying attention to me and trying to fill the silence. I want to see where this goes.

4) It was so hard to do, but seeing the pictures and video of them masturbating via text message will keep my hormones in check. Sex would both undermine my goals and be disgusting because she was just with him 2 days ago. Also, she’d be disappointed because her vibrator here runs on 110 volts whereas in New Zealand they run on 220.

Also, she’d be disappointed because her vibrator here runs on 110 volts whereas in New Zealand they run on 220.

Keep that sense of humor. That's a good sign.