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I guess my last post was more about sexual shame than it was about who specifically called me a slut, wasn't it? The two get so confusing for me.

It's a cultural thing. We see women who carry themselves a certain way, and both women and men refer to her as a slut. It teaches me that if I look/appear/act sexually like her, then I'll be a slut too.

My grandfather called me one. Mr Silver didn't call me one directly: he called me a c*** instead, alongside some other very unflattering names. He critiqued my genitals... If I masturbated, he said that I must have been with someone else. One time he was so angry that he put his lighter between my legs and flicked it on; I could smell myself burning. It's hard to explain, he indirectly said I was a slut.

It was implied in many different situations by many different people, both male and female, usually in positions of authority - that the times I was assaulted, it was *consensual*. Then it made me a slut in their eyes, because I must have "wanted it" but then "changed my mind" later. They ignored two key factors: I *didn't* want it, which should have been obvious from the many ways I was saying "no", and that when my "no" didn't work, I froze up, much to my own shame. They took freezing as a sign of consent. Both men and women shamed me there. Told me I should be mindful of what I wear. Told me I shouldn't get together with Mr Silver because it might inspire other clients to hit on me, if I were so openly sexual. So many other things, small things that add up.

What I should really be asking, to you and other posters here, is: how much sexuality is acceptable in a woman? What marks the difference for you all between a sexual woman (in a healthy and desirable way) and a slut? My gauge is a little broken.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 5:07 AM, April 4th (Wednesday)]

You might be wondering - with experiences like mine, why the hell do I still have a libido? After all, survivors of assault are typically aversive to sex...

Some survivors have the opposite reaction. Maybe I'm part of that opposite reaction: I love sex. It soothes me. I get scared sometimes that if I get well enough and heal enough, does this mean I'll lose my libido? But I think that's the shame talking. I've been made to feel, in so many ways without direct statements (do we call this gaslighting or passive aggressive?), that because of my sexuality, I'm dirty and less-than. Plus we're told that men want women whose number is low - no man would marry a woman whose number was higher than theirs. Fortunately, some of the wonderful menz here on SI have disproved that stereotype for me.

So those are my self-doubts talking. I tried for a very long time to kill my libido, so I could be a more proper woman and wife. Within the last few weeks (so very recently), I've decided it's best to just OWN that I have a high libido. Take the judgments as they come.

Mr Silver told me recently that he would rather initiate, be in control. That when I initiate, it throws off his vibe and makes him lose his- ahem- interest. Maybe that's why this is in my mind lately - I'm still processing what he said. Is this true for other guys - is it a turnoff when your wife initiates? Do you see it as an affront?

I apologize again for the rambling and multiple posts. I guess this is effecting me more than I've been allowing for.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 5:25 AM, April 4th (Wednesday)]

^ ^ ^ This is a good post Silver ^ ^ ^

I hope that it gives some of the posters here pause for thought.

Take care

MOB

Silver,

Your story is very hard to read, and, frankly, I don't understand what's going on with your H. I've never heard a story like that before; and I think that he's got some issues that need addressing.

What I should really be asking, to you and other posters here, is: how much sexuality is acceptable in a woman? What marks the difference for you all between a sexual woman (in a healthy and desirable way) and a slut? My gauge is a little broken.

Between us sexuality? There's no limit. If my W wanted it 5 times a day and I couldn't do it, I'd be happy to watch/help her. The difference between a sexual woman and a slut has nothing to do with sexual acts/frequency, and everything to do with who they are doing it with. A married woman cheating on her H with one other guy, at least at the time, makes her (and the OM, in case it matters) a slut. Even if that was her 2nd sexual partner in her entire life, at the time, she's a slut. A married woman who's had 100 partners before marriage, is faithful to her husband, a "freak" in bed (which is a good thing), and sleeps with her husband 2 times a day is the furthest thing from a slut. That's a "dream wife" it's something I'd protect and cherish like no other gift. It's what many men most want from their wives, and I can't see any healthy man saying "my W is a slut" because of that. In fact, men who are in that situation generally say nothing at all when other men start in on their wives/lack of sex, those guys just sit quietly and say "sorry man".

This is a really hard story to read because I just don't understand your H at all. Maybe he's threatened by your sexuality? Maybe it's CSA? I don't know, but I do know that his reaction is exactly the opposite of what mine would be/has been in the past. Which is so sad, because I can't imagine having a gift like your offering and turning my nose up at it.

Your story is very hard to read, and, frankly, I don't understand what's going on with your H.

I know. I'm sorry, I know my story doesn't make a lot of sense. My whole life hasn't made a lot of sense, to be honest. I've had a very crazy life.

This is a really hard story to read because I just don't understand your H at all. Maybe he's threatened by your sexuality? Maybe it's CSA? I don't know, but I do know that his reaction is exactly the opposite of what mine would be/has been in the past. Which is so sad, because I can't imagine having a gift like your offering and turning my nose up at it.

Yeah. When I first had a high libido, I felt so happy, not only because I enjoy sex but also because I figured that whatever guy I wound up with would be happy about it, because of the stereotype that guys are always thinking about sex. I thought, my guy and I would be on the same wavelength, and we'd have all the sex both of us wanted. Instead, I find it's a turn-off for him... And the guys before Mr Silver just took advantage of my libido to meet their own needs and scoffed at meeting any of mine.

Turns out my reality is very different from what I hear. I hear that guys would love a woman who is enthusiastic about sex - and my direct experience tells me it's the exact opposite. High drive = slut. Sluts are not to be married, nor trusted to remain faithful. Demure, low drive women are preferable, because then the man knows he can completely satisfy her, since her drive doesn't exceed his.

Society sold us both a bill of goods, didn't it, RIO? I'm sorry that you're in this same situation, on the opposite side of the fence.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 6:45 AM, April 4th (Wednesday)]

Maybe it's the antipsychotics. He takes those for his illness. I wonder if they kill libido. I hear excessive smoking of either cigarettes or pot can do that too, but I don't know whether that's true or not. He has a deeply ingrained smoking habit.

faithful to her husband, a "freak" in bed (which is a good thing), and sleeps with her husband 2 times a day is the furthest thing from a slut. That's a "dream wife" it's something I'd protect and cherish like no other gift. It's what many men most want from their wives, and I can't see any healthy man saying "my W is a slut" because of that

I want to jump Mr Silver's bones every time I see him. He gets annoyed and says, "We don't have to have sex every time!" I apologize to him... Internally, I'm thinking "Why not???" The rare days we go for two rounds make me ridiculously happy. Somehow I wound up with a guy who doesn't find that appealing, who is usually satisfied with once every 1-2 weeks, unless he's feeling really spontaneous. Which makes me wonder: did I just get unlucky, or is it more common amongst guys than we're taught?

I'm thinking it's a control thing. Maybe the way he sees himself. Maybe it's a part of his identity to be the one who initiates. He wants to be the one in control. So I'm not supposed to initiate. So I know my next steps... Let him initiate, show him how much I enjoy it, but don't push him, and hopefully his libido will increase on its own. If it doesn't, accept that about him. Or tease him mercilessly, which I do anyway. If he gets ready to leave and we haven't had sex that day, I'll tease him physically. Then he calls me a tease and spends the next week frustrated that he didn't take advantage while we had time.

OK, I'm kind of a bitch.

You’re not broken, not a slut, not a bitch, and not wierd silver. You actually sound like pretty much exactly what a healthy normal guy wants. Sorry your husband is so demeaning. That’s not the norm in my experience.

Look, from a purely biological standpoint, I don’t trust promiscuous woman who are COMMITTED to someone already. It threatens my odds of raising the right offspring. But that has no effect on my perception towards single women. I’d have no problem with a sexual woman who is openly single having plenty of sex partners before me. My ONLY expectation, is that once we mutually commit, that we actually commmit! Dishonesty about Exclusivity is my definition of slut, not sexual acts, frequency, or actions while single. Those I have no place to comment on.

I’m fact I want a woman who is sexually liberated, frequent, and open minded! But I want her to be that way ONLY with me! That’s the reality of most men, or at least the healthy men.

I despise sllut shaming of SINGLE or FAITHFUL women. It’s damaging and warped.

I don’t feel the same about slut shaming of women who betray their men, or men who betray their women, for that matter.

I want a woman who is sexually most liversted, excited and adventurous with ME. If she gives me C+ sex and gives and AP A+ sex, then we have a problem. If she gives an AP sex at all behind my back, that’s gross disrespect and a problem anyway, and I’ve learned I can’t tolerate it. Too much pride.

Silver, by far your arguments to try and understand how and why WW may be the way they are is certainly the most effective I’ve seen, and I commend you for that. But maybe, I have realized l, and given my history of revenge on OM, that the whys of a cheating wife don’t really matter to me. The fact that they happened is enough for me to draw the line.

But maybe, I have realized l, and given my history of revenge on OM, that the whys of a cheating wife don’t really matter to me. The fact that they happened is enough for me to draw the line.

That is completely understandable, NNM. The simple fact is, cheating on you was WRONG of her. That right there is enough to end the relationship.

Did you ever feel pressured to try to R? Do menz often feel pressure one way or the other? Just wondering about you all's experiences. FWIW: no one can tell you which path is the right one for you. Whatever path you choose in the wake of your wife's infidelity: you chose what you needed to. No one should be judging you for that.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 6:53 AM, April 4th (Wednesday)]

Did you ever feel pressured to try to R? Do menz often feel pressure one way or the other?

IMHO, it's the opposite for men, we are pressured to D. My friends would all say "leave her" if I told them about the W's A. Most posters on here are more balanced, but that's not entirely common in the "real world". Most men see an A as unforgivable, and, if I shared the sexual details, it would turn from "most" to "all" men I know saying "leave her". Very different, from what I understand, most women hear when talking to their friends about a H's A.

I find this thread very interesting as I'm stuck with a WW with no libido as well.

She was premenopausal during her last PA. Her last period was actually the same month it started. According to what I have read, at that point her hormones had decreased around 75%. She was also on SSRI's and had been for almost 6 years.

That PA lasted 2 years, they only had sex during the first 6 months, after that it was just a lot of communication. I discovered around 170 email strings that covered from the beginning till about 1.5 years when they stopped but the texts and calls continued. Besides the facts I know, I had the pleasure of reading her descriptions of her desire for him, what they did, what she wanted to do, all the ways she sexually pursued him. (She made first contact and started that A as well as was the aggressor during it)

Our current situation is this. She seems to and says she physically enjoys sex, she claims to enjoy an emotional connection when we do. She is willing if I pursue her, she has offered a few hand jobs here and there but has not pursued me in any way for as long as I can remember, pre A or post Dday. She claims to have no libido (didn't seem to have any pre A) and explains that it is because of menopause (100% now vs 75% during A?) and SSRI's (she switched to Wellbutrin well over a year ago and quit entirely 3 months ago) Those medical reasons just don't seem to add up to me.

For a long time post Dday, when I would send her a message to attempt to initiate with her, she would reply with perhaps, maybe or we'll see. When asked why she would reply like that she said "I think I want you to pursue me". She was also having a EA during her last PA, it had started almost 5 years prior. It was with her HS boyfriend who had not treated her well then. When asked why she would want to have any relationship with him she replied, "I got something from having someone that had treated me badly chasing me" Does anyone else see a pattern here? I also recently found a list she wrote of thoughts for us staying together or being apart, she put a plus, minus or question mark by each. Under the apart column was "no sex, no pressure, no obligation ?" It had a question mark. I guess that says a lot!!

Here's what I can't figure out. If she does physically enjoy sex, if she feels an emotional connection when we do, if she knows an emotionally and physically satisfying sex life is drastically important to a relationship, especially considering the past, why does she make absolutely no effort? I'm painfully aware that her fingers know how to send a text, I'm painfully aware that she knows the things to say, there is no "reason" she cannot engage me and reciprocate my pursuit. If she enjoys even just an emotional connection, how can she just be completely indifferent to pursuing one? We were discussing her last PA and she said, "it wasn't about the sex", I assume she meant it was about the emotional connection, so where's the desire for an emotional connection with me?

My honest opinion is this, she still has feelings for him, she has none for me, she is only willing because she feels pressured (afraid to say no) out of obligation and refuses to engage me because she refuses to give up the power and control she feels by having and manipulating me into pursuing her, especially with no return.

Sorry for the long post, I just get this whole thing, it's a terrible feeling and especially made worse when the WW seems to be indifferent.

I've had this talk with her a couple of times, I'll try once again and after that I'll let her know what choices I feel I have and make my decision..

I think a lot of WSs are lazy by nature and are pretty happy not doing anything that might take a little work. JMO though. Just another way of letting the BS know that you are not worth the effort and you are not sexually desireable. They can’t bother themselves to muster the passion and imagination they had going for the AP in order to have great sex for you.

TXTransplant, I think that's true for a huge percentage of waywards. That's why the effort freakin' matters so much.

Here's what I can't figure out. If she does physically enjoy sex, if she feels an emotional connection when we do, if she knows an emotionally and physically satisfying sex life is drastically important to a relationship, especially considering the past, why does she make absolutely no effort?

If you figure it out, please let me know. My W is similar, no libido at all, she claims she's "never been horny" with me, AP, or anyone else. We have sex often, she's amazing in bed, has orgasms easily/multiples that totally rock her world. Knows it connects me to her, and always spend time together laughing and enjoying one another after. How does someone have no "drive" for this? I just don't understand it, probably never will, but it doesn't make sense to me. Would your rather sit around and watch TV or go make fireworks in bed? And, most of the time, I'm pretty sure "TV" is her answer (and would NEVER be mine).

I just chalk it up to the difference between the sexes. It doesn't seem to matter how "good" it is for her, she can have 1 or 5 orgasms, just sex or the whole smorgasbord.. Seems to have no impact on her drive at all. Forgetting about the A, it's just so odd to me; if there was something that she liked to do, drew us closer together, was free, and basically had 0 downsides, and led to amazing feelings, I'd be doing it all the time, every chance I got. I just don't understand the "no drive" aspect for some women (and some men, as I've learned in this thread). Yes, CSA and other abuse issues, I can see that playing a huge role, but that's not her; so how does this happen? It's like someone saying "I hate chocolate" and then eating 4 bars of it and savoring every moment. Is it just a cognitive disconnect? And if so, why does it "disappear" with the AP?

IMHO, it's the opposite for men, we are pressured to D. My friends would all say "leave her" if I told them about the W's A. Most posters on here are more balanced, but that's not entirely common in the "real world". Most men see an A as unforgivable, and, if I shared the sexual details, it would turn from "most" to "all" men I know saying "leave her". Very different, from what I understand, most women hear when talking to their friends about a H's A.

I think every situation is its own monster in the closet I guess. But ya when a man cheats on a woman I think we are.told to get over it and deal moreso then when it's reversed. At least in my case. Oh it wasn't WH fault he was cheating. I must not be giving him enough at home you see. Or well he's young and hasn't had many partners, he just needed to sow his oats...

And those mostly came from other woman....Woman in fact that knew he was cheating before I did and were protecting him, covering for him...

Now many guys I knew who found out wh was or had cheated were quick to tell me to drop him but their agenda was self serving. One wanted in my pants but didn't want to fuck a married woman, he had morals ya know...Another outrightly grabbed my ass and said he'd fuck me right there to even the score with WH then I'd be ok...Omg...

One thing I want to ask is if you guys believe in all the unicorn fart land stuff?

When I read through all the emails and texts I have of WH to his OW's I can see how full of shit he was. Oh man all talk, trying to make himself seem all great. Outright lies. It's actually humourous because it's such a crock of shit that I can't believe any woman would fall for it.

So when you guys say you read their emails and texts do you really believe what your wife was telling the OM or was she talking the talk to keep him interested?

I just don't take anything in all those emails or texts to heart because I know it was all bullshit layered with dog shit sprinkled with rabbit crap and glazed in reptile poop...

Outright lies. It's actually humourous because it's such a crock of shit that I can't believe any woman would fall for it.

So when you guys say you read their emails and texts do you really believe what your wife was telling the OM or was she talking the talk to keep him interested?

The OM in my case couldn't have cared less if my wife "loved him" or not, as long as the sex kept flowing. And yes, I also had the pleasure of reading the messages, and kept thinking to myself, "who the hell would fall for this crap"? But that crap, to hear my wife tell it, was the "value" for the her. The "sweet nothings" that were in fact "nothing" were her "payoff" for the A.

So, to your question, did my W believe it? Sadly, yes, I think she did (at the time). She was played like a fiddle, which makes me even sadder in a lot of ways, blew up our lives for nothing. If she was just horny and looking for a F, at least she would have gotten what she came for. Since she claims that wasn't her motivation, I really have no idea what she 'got out' of it.

But do YOU believe she was genuine in what she was saying to OM.or just using it to keep him interested? I care about what you think, not her. I don't believe anything WH said to his OW's therefore I don't care about their Fantasyland sexapolusa. I care about our real life relationship with all its ups and downs and being totally authentic.

Trying to figure out the why's of this mess will drive a person insane. My WH wanted to get laid. Really was that simple. If he could get away with having the wife and side chick why not was his thinking...

I know one of his OW's felt totally loved by him. She totally fell for all the romantic crap he fed her, so he could get into her pants, and she believed he would leave me for her.

Silverhopes, I can relate a lot to your story. I also have a high libido and I also have used sex as a coping mechanism. I don't know how much is a result of rape or how much of my high libido is just who I am. I also thought that being this way would be an absolute gift to men, but have sometimes found that it freaks them out. My WH in particular would look at me and say "calm down" with a smile, as if I were freaking him out when I'd suggest a blow job while he was watching TV or whatever. I've often felt like a weirdo when it comes to sex, and I am genuinely sad that I didn't wind up marrying one of the many men in this world who would appreciate that part of me.

Maybe this thread would be better if we could stop thinking of it as a male/female thing. I'm quite the feminist, but I'm not remotely offended by what the men are saying here. They aren't wrong and what they're saying applies to me as a woman with my WH. For some people, sex is just important. It isn't that I'm not worth anything without it. It isn't that I don't care about the sexual issues that my WH has (and he has plenty more than I ever knew about). He told me last night that he never compared me to the prostitutes. They were "bad" and I was "good". OMG. That KILLS me. I always wanted to be "bad" with my husband. The Madonna/Whore complex is a real thing. Never would I have expected to be the "good" in that equation. My god, what is wrong with this man? I was basically a manogamous whore. Reading this thread absolutely makes me furious. I so very much picked the wrong guy.

Here's what I can't figure out. If she does physically enjoy sex, if she feels an emotional connection when we do, if she knows an emotionally and physically satisfying sex life is drastically important to a relationship, especially considering the past, why does she make absolutely no effort?

Bc she knows you're not going anywhere. It's that simple. She can do (or not do) ANYTHING and suffer no consequences.

But do YOU believe she was genuine in what she was saying to OM.or just using it to keep him interested?

I believe it. But what does it matter? She spent thousands of hours in communicational foreplay with him, and would them fuck his brains out every chance she got. So honestly, why do I care if she meant it? She got what she wanted: sex from someone that wasn't me.

Bc she knows you're not going anywhere.

Knew not knows. The A changed that, and now I'm getting laid like tile. (sorry, we need some humor here). But is that really what it takes?