SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

BS here, no stop sign.

(Note I've not read your BH's threads, so this is just based on my personal experience)

Re not being allowed to touch even his shoulder: in the first few days after DDay, a touch like that would send me into virtual immediate full-blown anxiety attack. It wasn't safe because my WH wasn't safe. And I was feeling unsafe enough as it is.

And I took grave offense at being told none of his APs were worthy. They weren't but that close after DDay I didn't want to hear it because, dammit, he put what we had in jeopardy for something inferior..Wtf?

It took a while before I could hear him say that and see the brokenness he was displaying by choosing inferior APs over me. But the first month or so it just elicited rage (which was masking deep pain).

Good luck.

As a fairly new BS, I would say these things..

Your motives for wanting to make it work will be suspect for a long time. Keep that in mind.

You need to spend a lot of time thinking about why and how you were capable of repeatedly making these decisions. Not mistakes - choices. And remember that your WHY will never be good enough.

You need to do the work and try your best regardless of the outcome, recognizing that if your marriage fails it is a consequence of your actions.

If these were your only two end results which would you choose?

A. You do the work, husband does the work, and husband offers reconciliation. End result two years later: you’re completely happy, husband is okay at best.

B. You do the work, husband does the work, but husband cannot overcome it and wants divorce. End result two years later: you’re hurting and unhappy, husband is happy.

Do you see what I’m asking? Are you more concerned about how YOU end up in all of this, or are you more concerned about how HE ends up in all of this?

Of course, there are other possible end results, but that’s not what I’m asking about. Can you get your mindset to be that option B would be the best choice since in this limited choice selection it’s what’s best for him.

Hi WhyDidI. Welcome to SI. Wanted to give you a few words of encouragement. You are in a very tough place and are going to have to show more character and heart than you ever have in your entire life to get through this. But you can do this.

I've only read a few of the posts in your thread here and all of your posts in this thread so I'm not sure if it's been mentioned or not, but a good place to start are the books How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your affair by Linda J MacDonald and Not Just Friends by Shirely Glass. Those should at least give you a frame of reference on what you need to do to get started working on yourself and to start down your path toward's your "whys".

You say your BH wants to know what your "whys" are. It's not that simple and is going to require you to analyze yourself and possibly look at area's that you don't want to look at. That's where IC (independent counseling) comes in. I've been in IC myself for over 4 years now. I understand my own behaviors now better than I ever have and I still am finding more about myself.

It can be argued that every affair is born from at least two things. Poor boundaries and selfishness. Start with those. I'm sure there are plenty of other things that you will have to work on and dig to find out as well. I have read Not Just Friends myself and this book can help point out some of your poor boundaries and the slippery slope to how you may have started down this path. Starting there is a good step to making yourself a safer person. So many other things that a GOOD IC can help you target and work on as well.

As far as working with your kids and BH, you may have to let go here. But that doesn't mean that you can't fight for yourself and try and prove that you are becoming a safer, better person over time. Actions speak louder than words. Getting into IC as I mentioned in a place to start. What about getting tested for STDs? Have you done that yet? Don't wait to be asked. Doesn't matter if your BH wants it or not as maybe he's too angry and hurt to even think about that, but you just do it. Give your BH a copy of your results good or bad. These are the types of actions and thinking that you have to start working on. Protecting your BH, and even your kids for that matter, doesn't mean you stop and shut down. It means you start taking action by telling the truth no matter how embarrassing that may be and also taking care of your health (mental and physical) for both you and your family.

You also cannot control your BH or BCs (Betrayed children) and you will have to let go of the outcome. That doesn't mean you should just give up and not do anything. Just means that you are going to have to take the brunt of their anger and hurt. Talk with them when they will let you. Take ownership of your actions with them. Maybe even get an app like Life 360 so that they can see where you are at all times (whether they want to or not). It's just another way you can show accountability. Or take pictures of where you are and send them to your BH and kids when you are out of the house.

Your kids are going through all of the aspects of betrayal with you as well. The difference between your BH and your kids is the added sex issues with your BH. But your kids will still have all the same trust issues, hurt, betrayal (you choose AP over the family unit), sadness, anger, shock, disappointment, disbelief, and on and on. No matter how you look at it, it's trauma. Knowing that and taking action is going to speak to hem better than anything you can say to them. Though apologizing and being specific when you apologize is a good start. That includes your kids. "I'm sorry son that I hurt you by..." No generic sorrys.

How do I know? I'm a betrayed child myself. Now a 44yo adult. I was 16 when I uncovered my mother's affair and exposed it. I wanted my mother to step up and take ownership and work on herself. To this day she won't. At best my mother is a very selfish person. At her worst she is downright toxic which is why at this point in my life I have cut her out completely and I have gone NC with her.

As a BC I was letting my anger, rage, and fear affect my interactions with my mother. You can take the lead with your BH and kids regardless of D or not. After all, wasn't your biggest betrayal to yourself? So start there and get working. You can do this. Don't give up. Get to work. Fight.

yop

A. You do the work, husband does the work, and husband offers reconciliation. End result two years later: you’re completely happy, husband is okay at best.

B. You do the work, husband does the work, but husband cannot overcome it and wants divorce. End result two years later: you’re hurting and unhappy, husband is happy.

First, those are not the only alternatives.

Second, no one can reliably predict the future.

Much more important, you're both likely to live a lot more than 2 years, so if anyone who limits his perspective to that will be doing himself a real disservice.

Hi there. Glad you joined and seem to be strong enough to handle it. This is very tough and life-changing stuff.

You’re getting good advice, so I won’t repeat. I will only add how concerned I am about your children. It’s a particular hot button of mine due to the devastation my own children suffered because of my WH’s horrible choices.

I know that right now you’re concerned about a lot (rightly so), but please put your kids high on your list. They’ve been betrayed too. They are at very difficult ages to deal with infidelity. Old enough to understand much of it, yet really too young and inexperienced to truly understand all of it. They are hurting too. Badly. You will need to work very hard to regain their love and respect. Never give up on this — no matter the outcome of your M.

Please encourage them to get into counseling (free at university). The effects of this will haunt them for years - just like your BH. It will affect their future relationships. They need the guidance of an uninvolved knowledgeable 3rd party — and their teenage friends are not qualified for this task.

I wish you the best as your family tries to heal.

First, those are not the only alternatives.

Second, no one can reliably predict the future.

Much more important, you're both likely to live a lot more than 2 years, so if anyone who limits his perspective to that will be doing himself a real disservice.

I said that there are more options as well as "in this limited choice selection". The comment is meant merely to see his needs vs. your own needs. Is it more important how he feels down the road, or how you feel down the road? Sorry if it didn't come across that way.

BH here.

I can't add much more than what the others have said, other than to reiterate how important it is that you be 100% truthful. Trickle truth will destroy any hope of reconciliation. So when you talk to him tonight, be prepared to do some brutal confessing.

Sometimes in order to get a bullet out of a person who has been shot, the surgeon will have to cut a long incision and open up a large portion of flesh to get at the foreign object. It is bloody, and ugly, and painful. But it is necessary for healing to occur.

Try to absorb what your husband is feeling. Practice active empathy: imagine yourself in his shoes. How would you have felt if you found out he had been having sex with a 25 year old girl? How would that have made you feel about yourself. Really live that thought whenever you are around him.

And whatever you do...don't hide yourself away. Don't lock yourself away from the world. If you have daily chores to do around the house then do them. Stop trying to avoid your BH. You cannot act invisible, and you will just make him angrier if you try.

Get yourself into intensive independent counseling. Find a counselor who is tough and will make you work your issues. You need someone who will call you on your bullshit whenever you try to avoid responsibility for your actions. And don't try to pressure your husband into marriage counseling. Neither of you are ready for it.

Let him see you taking active steps to work on yourself. Apologize to him profusely, many times a day every day.

Go to his family, sit down with them and tell them with all candor what you did, and apologize to them for hurting him and them. Do the same with your parents.

No more secrets, no more lies.

SO I don't often post but something about this thread spoke to me. You see I'm neither BS nor WS I'm the child of a BS.

I know what your children are feeling. Something you need to understand now and understand quick is that you didn't just betray your husband. You betrayed them too. You cheated on them too. You chose your AP over them too. They are just as hurt and angry as your Husband is. You need to really understand that. Not just intellectually. But feel it in your gut. You need to know that you have to reconcile with them too and it will be just as difficult as reconciling with your husband. What you did to him you did to them. I cant stress this enough. Also you have a very long hard road ahead of you.

Its been 5 years since my fathers affair and I still have not forgiven him for it. I'm still just as angry with him as the day I found it. I'm ashamed to be his son. Your children are ashamed of you. I came here recently to read the Wayward side because years later I still cant comprehend what he did to her. They are ashamed to call you their mother that's why they wont do it. They no longer feel you've anything of value to teach them. They no longer feel you have any moral authority to be their parent. How are you going to teach them right from wrong now? How can they ever take you seriously again?

[This message edited by mezlabor at 4:29 PM, April 4th (Wednesday)]

mezlabor raises a very good point.

My 2 girls who are now 28 and 25 still barely acknowledge their mom and it's been over 15 years since dday. However, their mom, A or not, is just not a good person.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 4:38 PM, April 4th (Wednesday)]

One thing I don't see much of here is how it affects us as the offspring. I'm 38 so I'm hardly a child anymore but we spend our lives looking up to our parents. Looking to them for guidance and wisdom even as adults. When you see that they can betray you in so deep a way it ruins that bond of trust and whats more it forever tarnishes your role as a provider of wisdom. That is something I don't think a parent can ever earn back. I'll never look to my father for relationship advice now. Never listen to him for marriage advice, never consider his advice for raising children. That will never change even if we re-establish a relationship.

[This message edited by mezlabor at 5:04 PM, April 4th (Wednesday)]

*deleted*

Better I say nothing at all.

[This message edited by smilethrupain at 5:47 PM, April 4th (Wednesday)]

While I understand the well intended divulgence of what the effects may be with her children, I gently want to point out that this woman sounds a little on the brink. I fully understand that this is fall out from poor decisions but in the course of a short time she has lost her family and her job. I am genuinely concerned that if this woman could really be pushed to the edge of self harm. Adding to the fear that she won’t be able to repair her relationship with her children is probably more than she can take at this moment in time. Every relationship is different so I would just like to say to whydidI:

There is hope for you and your children if you do the work. It’s possible that you can repair things with them. It sounds like that has not been the experience of some of the posters here but they may not have had a parent that was diligent about that repair. There is always hope, don’t give up.just keep putting one foot in front of the other.

Might be helpful if we add an I relate thread for betrayed children. I see it s a topic we can all benefit from. I do not wish to be disrespectful of any post as I can see it’s well intended. But even Waywards have times when being overwhelmed by the fall out of infidelity can become too much. The bs and bc are innocent victims, I get it. But I see someone who is in a lot of pain here too and for a mother to think she has irrevocably lost her children and vice versa, it’s a sensitive piece.

Let me add a few things then. My father was not remorseful. He did not believe we had a right to be upset with him. He did not believe that his actions should have hurt us. This is the thinking I want to stomp out in her. I said what i said because if she is to repair her relationship with her kids she needs to realize she did hurt them, they do have a right to be angry with her, she needs to reach true remorse and that remorse also needs to include how she has hurt her kids and not just her husband. Just as reconciliation is a gift from her husband it is from her kids as well. They don't owe it to her if she can't acknowledge how she betrayed them as deeply as her husband.

[This message edited by mezlabor at 5:37 PM, April 4th (Wednesday)]

I agree, she has to do the work. I could see where you are coming from. Your additions are helpful. My post was just concern because this just happened and I just wanted to offer encouragement. It’s going to take some time but I do think it’s possible that she can repair it. This is a tough day for her and her bh, the despair is deep for both of them. It’s a lot right now while it’s fresh.

[This message edited by hikingout at 5:53 PM, April 4th (Wednesday)]

Your children are ashamed of you. I came here recently to read the Wayward side because years later I still cant comprehend what he did to her. They are ashamed to call you their mother that's why they wont do it. They no longer feel you've anything of value to teach them. They no longer feel you have any moral authority to be their parent.

I don’t know how anyone can say this. This may be true for you mezlabor, but it is not a universal truth.

WhyDidI, I can tell you that after I told my girls they were angry and upset. They were scared that our family would be a broken one. And it was my fault. They said many things that were hard for me to hear. They were also right. But my BH and I got them into therapy almost immediately and they paid attention to how we acted. We didn’t hide many things from them once they knew. If I had a therapy appointment I didn’t say I was going to my sister’s house. When I was doing certain exercise assigned by my IC, I didn’t hide what I was doing. And we talked. So much. And we cried even more. Do they hate me now? Sometimes I feel that way and I think there’s some lingering resentment and anger. But at my second daughter’s wedding we danced together and she told me she loves me and was proud of all I’ve done in the year and a half since.

Basically, it’s early, but never give up hope on your children. And please get them into therapy right away. If you and your BH can agree on anything, it should be to do what’s best for your children.

How are you going to teach them right from wrong now? How can they ever take you seriously again?

This is a horrible way of thinking and honestly sounds more like a projection. Doing something wrong does not mean you no longer can be a good parent. Even something as bad as an affair. But you teach them first by owning up to your actions, acknowledging them and their pain, and saying you did the wrong thing. By apologizing to them. By telling them not to do what you did. Parents are human beings and they make poor choices too. You teach them how to make the right ones and you are living proof that good people are not immune to doing bad things. You work on yourself and teach by example. You implore them to be better than you.

But you never ever give up on your children and act like just because you had an A you now have no parental authority or the ability to teach them, guide them and love them. You are their mom and always will be. You be there for them in every capacity because you’re their mother.

My (BH 53) story is long, but what I want to share a couple of things. My XWW (55) of 30 years, whose last A was almost ll years before the divorce last Oct, was recently hospitalized for mental health reasons. Her physical health has deteriorated too. It wasn't until she knew that I was going to divorce her did she admit to an affair, then after the divorce admitted to two more. She held out hope that I would take her back, and I do believe she is genuinely remorseful. She wanted so badly to keep our family together, but I stuck to my decision. Nothing she could've done would've changed my mind.

That said, she did not take care of herself physically or emotionally and now she's a mess. Do not neglect yourself. I know it's hard but have to be strong for what's ahead, for both yourself and your children.

Also, we have three adult children (27, 24, 19). All are very angry with her, but I have done my best to make sure they understand that they need their mother. She has to fix that relationship, I can't. Be honest with them, within the appropriate bounds, and let them know that you love them no matter what happens. You are human and made some bad choices, but that doesn't change how you feel about them.

However this plays out, I hope you can find peace someday.

Well, since you’ve reached out here, you should start by being honest.

Moat tattoo parlors would give you any tattoo you want. I understand if you’re trying to convey the depth of your despair, but I doubt that’s true.

Also, calling yourself a slut is not helpful, nor is calling recording your sexual exploits with your OM a mistake, or blaming OM for taping them.

You. You did this to your husband. And by extension, your family. Own that.

Your words also sound weirdly as if they came out of your husbands mouth. You might want try to post more from YOUR point of view.

Betrayed Spouse here

1. Let go of the idea of trying to win back your husband. You need to understand that while you don't currently understand the depth of his pain yet, your marriage is dead. He just didn't know you had killed it until several months from when you first put your feet on the path to plot its death.

2. You can't "fix" this on your own time table. Healing has a gestation just like giving birth. Your husband's mind and body have been scarred by a lethal betrayal, and the loss he feels, while you feel the loss too, is different to him because he had no say in the matter. His marriage ended suddenly and dramatically. You've known about your betrayal for a long time, while this is fresh to him.

3. Running yourself down, making this dramatic gesture of appealing to his knight in shining armor instincts is unfair and will not help you.

4. Commit to do the right thing now. You will experience divorce, all the way to the finish. Pledge to do the right thing. Work your replacement corporate job and learn all you can about appropriate safe-relationship behavior in the work place. I have worked in a male-dominated profession and have never flirted, flattered, or otherwise run around with the guys, even at conferences when they're playing in the bar after a long day at work. I would be friendly, but would go back to my room alone, on my phone with my husband after work hours were done. Correct the attitude, mindset and heart that gave you license to blur those very clear appropriate lines in the first place. Work with a good counselor who doesn't tolerate you excusing your bad behavior, but seeks to help you correct it. And don't even think of stiffing him at the divorce table. No self-preservation. You can work a corporate job, and instead of dating, work that waitress job too if you have to in order to make ends meet. It's the least you can do.

5. If, down the road, you become a woman who is safe for your husband to consider dating, fine. But do not count on it, or hold his life hostage to your past. Focus on how to be a good woman now and forever. You can't promise that you would never cheat on him now, because you are the same woman who cheated on him; life changing attitudes don't happen in less than years except at fake healing shows.

[This message edited by k8la at 6:59 PM, April 4th (Wednesday)]

P.S. - also betrayed daughter.

I witnessed my mother's cheating on my dad.

I also witnessed my dad beating my mother - frequently (and he didn't outwardly know about the cheating)

After I confronted her about what I had witnessed, we went three years without speaking and I didn't do family events. I let her explain (which she didn't - she was a drama queen to the full extent and I was just being difficult

We have a warm relationship now, but it has been 30 years since that painful confrontation. And I still don't abide any excusing infidelity by her. I have no tolerance for her going down that path. She's still somewhat wayward, because she never had to deal with anything but her secrets. It will always be between us.

Your children know. It's out in the open. Secrets are toxic. If they go three years without speaking to you, their healing has a gestation timeline as well. You can't expect them to accept anything you say. Read up on anything you can about changing yourself - I highly recommend anything by Stephen M. R. Covey - Speed of Trust is really good, as is a book his colleague wrote called "Get Better". Crucial Accountability by Patterson, et al is also good.