SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

My H has asked me a question that I found hard to answer in some ways.

He asked...tell me why you thought you were compatible with AP/what he brought to the table that made you have strong feelings for him. And, tell me what makes you think now that you aren't compatible with him and why you don't have feelings.

It's a great question, he's asked it before many times but this conversation seemed different. I will summarize what I told him:

I can understand why you want to know that. It's hard now with the hindsight not to let that crowd out the answer. Hard not to filter what I felt then by what I know now. I am going to try to give you the answer without the hindsight because I think that's really what you want to know.

I thought he listened and understood me, I thought he was funny and kind, I thought that he was insightful. He was charming. He made me feel good about myself, more confident, funny, powerful, sexy. Important to him.

It's hard to say that now because I don't believe most of these things about him to be true and I even doubt the things he said that made me feel any of those ways. He had selfish motivations for listening to me and likely used what he heard to reflect back to me. He came off insightful because he probably understood what I wanted to hear. Unconsciously or consciously I don't know. Part if me deep down thinks he was as lost as I was, and I know what I did was very unconscious and suspended reality. It seemed real to me at the time.

And, the fact he wanted me is problematic. Not only was I married, I was really disgusting myself. Not only was I cheating on a good man, but I was building this guy up too. And, I was on a high horse that I was saving him from his wife, brightening his world. It made me feel like I was special. My compliments of him were true at the time. I did think a lot of him. But it was based on a very skewed sense of him and of myself.

The reality of it is I didn't know him, I still don't. I don't know what he's like when he's cranky, or how he deals with the demands of responsibilities of his life. He obviously didn't respect or cherish his wife, I have no reason to believe that he would ever be capable of that. He's done this their entire marriage, hard to think that it's a pattern he would ever abandon. I projected an image onto him of what I wanted for him to be with no real knowledge or understanding if he even resembled the picture. There are several instances that lead me to believe that he did not (and I gave him a few examples of when the mask temporarily came off so to speak).

I don't have any feelings because I don't want a man like that. The man that I thought I was with never existed. I would never want a man who helped me destroy you emotionally or who would do that to his wife. It makes me sick to think that I degraded myself, and destroyed our marriage for that. Things I could have gotten so much more truly and deeply right here at home with you. I am sorry that I failed to see that and that I hurt you so badly. I am sorry that I didn't stand up for our marriage by maintaining boundaries and talking with you about the problems I was having. I know with all my heart it is the worst thing I could have ever done. There is no comparison between what we have and what I would have been in for with him.

The question really triggered me for some reason. We've had this talk on other occasions. I felt embarrassed, ashamed. I am in my fifties and so much of it was operating in an 18 year old brain. A grown woman doesn't revert, it's really pathetic.

We talked about it for a long time, probably close to two hours. I could not get a sense of how he felt about what I told him. It will probably take some time for him to process the emotions of it. I can say it seemed heartfelt in both directions, it was a calm conversation and at one point it seemed like something clicked for him.

I don't think I could have answered differently, it was all just the truth. But, I do wonder if I could have done better somehow. I think that you always feel that way during these talks. Especially when you keep learning more and more about the shitshow that was your mind. You kind of question yourself. Am I trying to control the situation? I don't know, I feel very sad today. The A is such an empty place to go back and visit. You ruin your life for thin air it seems. You want to go back and shake the shit out of yourself. And, in the aftermath of all of it you can't help but question yourself on everything you do. It's exhausting sometimes. You know that each month you get better but you wish you had some confidence that you aren't answering with wayward thinking.

I don't know what I am really asking of the group. There is some significance about this conversation to me, but I am not through processing it yet. Send me the 2X4's or anything you got.

Sometimes I wonder if we are the same person or had the same affair. A lot of your posts I could write myself word for word. This one included.

The man I thought I was getting to know was not the person he portrayed himself to be. Looking back now I see he must have made a lot of effort to control and mirror conversations. To seem like we had so much in common.

We did have things in common, things I didn't share with my spouse, and that is what got us into the discussions in the first place. But I don't know that man. I didn't know who he was as a person, I knew the person he pretended to be. And in reality, he knew the person I was pretending to be. I'm not stupid either, I could see it, I questioned him, I pushed, I asked. at 38 years old, I too should have known better. And I did.

Sad.Hollow.Meaningless. And look at the harm and damage it has caused.

What really bothers me are all of the lies I told myself about my wife and what I chose to believe about the AP. I KNEW that I was married to an amazing woman. I KNEW she loved me. I KNEW these things but somehow managed to convince myself that the 20 or so years of knowing my wife were all a big blur. That I really didn’t marry my soulmate after all. That I managed to convince myself that my AP was my true life partner. All so devistating and disgusting.

Hi there. BS here and no stop sign. No hard 2x4 either.

It sounds like a discussion WH and I have frequently. It is never ending so to speak and never changing. It has lessened in intensity. For what it is worth if it is a discussion instead of a screaming match or anger fueled, that is a good thing.

It is extraordinarily painful for me to hear and extraordinarily for him to admit both to himself and to me. And that is how I know it is on his mind. And how he's self reflecting and getting to his "whys" And how progress is being made.

From my perspective I ask over and over and over. I'm like Columbo on a mission. What did I miss, what was wrong with me, what was wrong with us? And the logic you used, is what he tells me. Once my WH was out of the A fog, his defenses down, and did lots of self reflecting he became very remorseful. He couldn't believe he risked it all for...what?

I think you are on to something with the 18 year old brain mentality.

If you answered truthfully and heartfelt, that is good. Please keep doing so. Your H needs to hear it. Probably more frequently than he asks and more frequently than you want to discuss but he needs to hear it.

I'm sorry you feel sad but [and this is as close to a 2x4 as I will come but I will swing gently] he feels far worse and will for a long time to come. He had no say nor control in this A. You did. And IMHO it sounds like you are truly sorry. Please tell him so as often as he needs. That reassurance is so important to him. I know it is to me. Some days, that heartfelt reassurance keeps me going.

Wishing you peace.

FF- But that is how you justified the affair to yourself. I did the same thing to an extent, but not about my husband specifically, more about my marriage. It made me feel better about what I was doing.

I still think of the horrible things he told me about his wife. It makes me sad to think about it and that I commented on things he said about her. He was very critical of her weight and her lack of motivation. He said that was the thing he admired most about me. And I ate it up.

BS here. I'm not sure if this will be of any help, but here are my thoughts.

My XWW had three A's during the first 20 years of our marriage. I was a career military man so it was easy for her to hide her A's. The last ended ten years before I decided to divorce. I didn't find out about last A until I filed, nor the other two until after the divorce. The only one that was "emotional" for her was the last A, a man 17 years younger.

There is no doubt that my XWW is deeply remorseful and would've done anything to fix our marriage. She thought that she'd had her A's behind her and her future with me was safe. But our marriage, due to her infidelity, became scarred in ways that I didn't understand and could no longer accept. It wasn't until the A's came out that everything made sense.

I had the same questions as your BH. What did these APs offer her that I couldn't/didn't? For the first two, it was the thrill of it all. For the last, she was 43, feeling bad about herself, and became smitten by the attention of a younger man (her trainer) when I was on a long deployment. Basically, he made her feel young and wanted in a way that she didn't feel with me. For the record, I had a hard time believing any of it. But since I had already decided to divorce, I didn't really pursue it anymore although those questions remain.

I thought my XWW was "The One". We had 33 years together. I did my best to be a loving, attentive husband, father, provider, etc. and it wasn't enough for her. I didn't understand why and still don't. I have to say, though, that your answer sounded genuine. Your BH has to reconcile in his mind why he wasn't good enough for you. Why you needed OM and not him. Why you felt pleasure with OM that you didn't get from your BH. He is still trying to sort it all. Even though I have moved on, I'll admit I'm trying to sort it all too, if for no other reason than the sake of future relationships.

I didn't go through the normal BS process. I'd already detached from my XWW and decided to leave before everything came out. But it still made me question my worth as a man, whether or not I was man enough, and cringed at how she must've been comparing OM to me all of those years.

All you can do is be completely truthful, open, and willing to answer his questions. If what you are saying is the truth, you are doing the best that you can.

[This message edited by Cromer at 11:32 AM, April 6th (Friday)]

Pinkpggy

Oddly enough, I never really trashed my wife to my AP i. the sense that I didn’t called her a bitch or a horrible person. In fact I even said to my AP on more than one occasion that my wife was a good person.

On the other hand, my AP couldn’t say enough bad things about her H. Granted she was divorcing him during our A and I actually encouraged her to try and work it out. Ostensibly because I wanted her to stay married. Perhaps so I wouldn’t have any real pressure to leave my wife? I think I always knew deep down I wasn’t going to leave my wife anyway but that was probably my motivation.

Oddly enough, I never really trashed my wife to my AP i. the sense that I didn’t called her a bitch or a horrible person. In fact I even said to my AP on more than one occasion that my wife was a good person.

This was how I was as well. Except I didn't mention my wife at all or very verly little. Deep down I felt ashamed of what I was doing, and there was nothing negative to talk about my wife. I thought about my wife, called her often, and didn't treat her any different. If I hadn't left my email open, it's very possible the affair could have kept going.

My wife did ask me what the other woman had that she didn't' have. What drew me to her. There wasn't anything really about her. Honestly, that was the truth, and she still does this day is struggling to accept or believe that. The other woman showed me attention, and it was an ego boost. Throwing her under the bus and letting her go was easy because I didn't see any qualities about her. There was some emotional connection to a degree since I kept it going. But at the end of the day, I was never going to leave my wife for her. It wasn't even a thought.

[This message edited by Taledo at 12:19 PM, April 6th (Friday)]

I find the comments that the AP thought I spoke favorably about my spouse to be laughable. This is a cop-out. How much more can you trash your spouse than having an affair? I played this very same game with my BH.....told him "he knew how much I love you". Complete B.S.

That's the point, and we would discuss this. We fully acknowledge we were awful people doing what we were doing, so there is no justifying saying nice things or not. What bonded us partially was discussing our marriages short comings. Two people that are having an affair are not in healthy marriages (on their end).

The one thing that will always haunt me is my AP said he wished his wife would die. That his kids could accept that easier than going through a divorce. I remember being really sickened by that and worried. I can say I didn't offer more to my AP other than an ego boost and cheap sex. But like FF he knew he was never going to leave his wife, as long as he never got caught, he said he was "content" in his life.

Amy44

How do you interpret that to be a cop out? I was simply making a factual statement. It wasn’t an attempt at minimizing what I (or any other WS for that matter) did. Certainly me singing praises about my wife to the AP doesn’t take away the fact that I did the worst thing to my marriage and my wife.

I think the hardest thing is - there is no reason, no feeling, nothing you can tell your BS that will ever make them understand it. And they shouldn't. Can't. The problem is it's gotten to where I can't understand it either. So stupid. So heartless.

Chaos - Yes, I do get that he's really traumatized and no fault on his own. I really just vent my feelings here because I try and be self-reliant with dealing with those sorts of feelings. Meaning, I try to walk a line of showing remorse but the shame and the sadness, some of that I really shield him from it. Not because I am hiding. He obviously knows I am sad about things, but I don't put them on him in any way to bear them. I do the venting in IC too. When I am with him I really just try to concentrate on how he feels, how I have made him feel, and actions that show him how I feel now.

Pinkpggy- I am always amazed really how many of us have things in common. There is truly some text-book cases. It's interesting that we are all different people but the psychological responses for both the BS and the WS all share similarities. Especially among the same genders.

Cromer - I am sorry to read about your pain and story.

And to the rest, there is a side topic here about trashing/not trashing. The AP in my situation nor myself trashed either AP verbally. But, Amy is right, how could you further trash them but by having an affair. It's true. I have noticed in my facebook memories how many times over the years that I have said such nice and heartfelt things that showed appreciation for things my husband did or who he was. (I mean I am not someone who does this all the time, but when you have 10 years of memories it comes up kind of frequently that I said something in 2007 or 2010 or whatever) How did I lose this appreciation? How did I stop valuing him?

Alright, enough. Suffice it to say that I am very introspective today following the night we had last night. I am looking forward to some quality time over the weekend, it seems to be when we are both happiest right now.

[This message edited by hikingout at 12:55 PM, April 6th (Friday)]

Hiking out- How is your H doing today? Does he seem sad too ?

I think you both being down can create a great bonding opportunity. Is there something that he would really like ? Going out for a big steak? Target shooting? Etc?

It doesn't have to big. A small kindness does wonders for his state of mind. Also extending that kindness will help you feel better too. I don't know why, but doing something nice for someone always seems to lift my spirits. When he asks about this kindness tell him "just because I felt like doing something nice for you."

It is all good and even great that you post here, but it is ok to reach out to him for comfort. Do you have any questions you want to ask him related to the A ? Maybe now would be a good time before the rollercoaster dips again ?

Even at the times during our R when my W was sad or insecure she found that talking to me to be very helpful. It is not putting a burden on him. He needs to see and hear over and over again how you feel about that time too. It helps him get comfortable with the idea that your are remorseful and not likely every to betray him like this again.

Gentle, gentle suggestion. Go ask him questions about how he feels about the A or what his thoughts were during the convo. If tears come let them. It is very cleansing to cry sometimes.

This is one of those "heavy lifting moments," you need to get out of your head somehow. Focusing on something intensely can create blind spots. Maybe you need to look away for a little while ?

hikingout - thank you for this post. From a BS perspective, your comments are just what your BH needs to hear - the TRUTH. There is nothing better than the truth believe me. Eventually my WS opened up and told me both sides of his story - the same way you articulate it here. He was able to tell me how he felt at the time and then, in retrospect, what he knows to be true and not a fantasy.

I think the bashing of a spouse to the AP is meaningless. Yes it hurts something awful but as Amy44 mentions, the damage can't be worse than the betrayal itself and the lying and gas lighting that goes along with it. Everything else is just another piece of shit on the pile.

So I would encourage the openness of the feelings because at least for me, it helped so much to hear my WS being honest and letting me know what was going through his head.

Sorry we cross posted.

I really just vent my feelings here because I try and be self-reliant with dealing with those sorts of feelings. Meaning, I try to walk a line of showing remorse but the shame and the sadness, some of that I really shield him from it.

I have to say that, "shielding," that from him is pushing him away unintentionally. Show him those feelings. Even if they are ugly.

I cannot tell you how much better I felt when my W came to me and talked about the shame, sadness, etc. I did not see it as burden and it helped me move away from inevitable feelings of unfairness.

He can't read your mind and doesn't know what is in there. Some of that is hard for you, but can be very re-assuring for him.

If he is angry obviously that is not the time.

numb & numb,

Great suggestions. Actually, he has been doing some work that's kept him stooped over so I am planning to give him a massage later tonight.

I have spoken to him a few times today, he seems fine but he's in work mode. I do plan to ask him about the conversation, but I wanted to give him a little time to digest it. He has a very hard time identifying and articulating feelings.

I know what you are saying, sort of, with the sharing the sadness. I don't mean to say I don't turn to him and tell him what I am feeling. If it's about my remorse I express it to him. However, anything that's kind of pity party, I don't. I weed it out now because in the beginning I was sharing everything and it was keeping it about me. It was shutting him down from expressing and processing because he felt he had to comfort me. I am just careful now about filtering the pity party this is hard stuff and once I have processed that then I share more with why it's hard or the meaning behind it. It sounds calculating, I don't mean it to be. I just don't want him to have to bear the brunt of everything. He has a hard enough time dealing with his own stuff.

I am going to re-read your post a few times. I do think that I am in my head a lot today, but I am usually that way when I come here. Lots of times it helps me process everything and get back out.

ff4152, I just see it as a total contradiction. Praising my BS to my AP is the epitome of saying one thing and doing another. I did it as well. It took me a long time to own my ish. When I did, I realized that praising my BH to that idiot who helped me destroy him was total garbage. How plausible do you really think that is?

Hello hikingout, I'm a BW and very new to this upside-down hell-world of betrayal, but I felt compelled to respond to your post.

I want to tell you that I believe this is a core issue of responsibility and boundaries. You need to discover the inner why of how you let yourself break the sacred bond of your marriage. This, in my view, is foundational and should be a priority for you. What is it in YOU that caused you to stray and hurt the one you dearly love? It wasn't this guy wearing a mask of charm, although he did play a key role (it could have been someone else though). Maybe you already realize all of what I'm saying here. You strike me as an insightful person.

I can understand why your BH needs to know the honest answers to his questions. He may very well be trying to figure out all the whys to help make sense of this mess he never asked for. It's confusing to sort through all the pain, looking for the crumbs of cause and effect. He may be wondering what is wrong with him or what he could have done to prevent such a thing from happening in the first place. I hope you will continue to reassure him that (even if there were problems in the marriage) he did nothing to cause the betrayal.

When you are as honest as you can be, I believe this can help. You must continue to to do. And...

In doing so, do not fail to lose sight of your inner why. What is the hidden inner patterning, the inner clockwork that caused you to lose touch with reality and stray into this dangerous fantasy land? Therein lies your problem AND your solution. You may feel great resistance in going there, but take strength of heart as you seek the truth of the matter. This will be essential to your turn-around.

If you don't already have one, a good therapist can help you get there. It's not an easy journey, but it's a worthy one.

You must continue to be there for your BH and help him heal in all ways possible. AND you must journey into the deeper unresolved darkness of your own being to find out your why. It will lead you to something profound. I don't think you are afraid at all. I wish you and your BH courage.

I think the big takeaway here is how the AP made one feel ABOUT THEMSELVES. Not necessarily how one felt about the AP or how the AP had certain attributes, etc.

Feeling good about ourselves and having someone validate us is a very powerful drug. And when someone treats us like the wittiest, most sparkly thing ever, we gravitate to that. We assign that thing attributes that they don't possess. It's all because of that drug, that validation, that over the top "you're-the-best-thing-ever."

It's really not about them as much as it is about how we perceived ourselves through their eyes.

PS: Not a wayward, but an old-timer who can see both sides of the fence

Cat

Thank you burning house...we are about 9 months out now and I do have many of my whys and have been in IC the whole time. MC for about 3 months now.

As for the whys, I think my husband does feel what I have found in my digging to be ringing true. We've had probably most every conversation we could have in these past months. I think my post is just as you revisit things you learn more each time. It's a long haul, one we are not even halfway through at this point.

Your post is precisely on point, but we are just in a different stage now than in the beginning. I hope your husband is also doing the work. I am sorry that you have found yourself here.