SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

DM -

Went to print & there are 60 pages. Will read through the PDF version, but it will take a while.

Last night, I sat outside & enjoyed sitting with the dogs, watching the cows & birds. Tried to be peaceful and just sit & bide for a while.

Does the fact that it's a sibling make much difference?

Ummmmm, YES! It sure the hell does!!

How are things going, leafields?

Have you read enough of your postings so far to form an opinion of what you've said?

You've mentioned a few times how you are on The Emotional Rollercoaster. I want to reiterate that we've all done it, and it hurt incredibly and made us doubt our sanity at times. We know what it feels like to be totally betrayed by a spouse or SO. It takes what feels like forever to begin to wind down and then, like a real rollercoaster, there are a few surprise "Woo hoo! We're off again!" twists and turns. The only help for it is time and living authentically. The living authentically part doesn't really help you get over it any faster, but it does help with not having to live through it again, later.

thoughts?

The indescribable selfishness of a person who should be there to help & support their partner can be a demolishing force. The A was the nail in the coffin of the M, so to speak.

Do I really want to go back to THAT M? No, and I was patiently waiting for the right time to tell my H. (The part I'd need to work on if we decide to R.)

Can I survive without the M? Yes, I can. I am strong & capable of doing things that I never thought I could do. Will it hurt? Like hell! But I can get through that, too.

I am the one who said IC before MC, got the books & tips, asked for the timeline. I've been able to construct one of my own and still waiting for H to do his. He has been reading the Who Will You Become book & said that the book was hitting home.

I've yelled at him, called him a selfish bastard & SOB, that I hoped she was a good f* to be worth all this. Spewed more vitriol.

He did agree and say that he was a selfish a$$hole & didn't deserve me. And he cooked dinner last night. Hamburgers - but, it was something.

I'm trying to do the 180 and trying to keep communication to a minimum. He's off work so he's been more talkative. During the evenings, I've been able to head outside to keep some distance.

He did call the other sis that is arranging the family reunion in July. He told her what happened & then let her know if AP goes, we can't.

On a side note, I've found out that Barry Manilow is going to be back in Vegas. I'm thinking that I may take a weekend all by myself & go see him. I don't gamble but would enjoy taking in the sights.

He did agree and say that he was a selfish a$$hole & didn't deserve me.

At the risk of repeating myself, -but- (one of those -buts- that makes this next okay) I really want to drive this point home:

Since he's blown his credibility out of the water with all of the lying and cheating and more lying - Does it really matter if he agrees or not? You don't know, except through a now-blown faith and trust, that he's telling the truth vs. telling you what he things that you want to hear or what he thinks will get his life back to where he wants it.

From his possible point of view: Which is easier, agree with a woman spewing vitriol who will eventually calm down vs. digging deep into himself because he recognizes the need to change to be a safe partner? Which is easier, hamburgers vs. timeline?

You should also read How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair while he's reading his.

What are you thinking about the whole thing, and dig deep? How do you feel?

Remember, too, that you can choose how to feel. That's another topic.

What are you thinking about the whole thing, and dig deep? How do you feel?

I know that he's putting off doing the timeline because he figures I've done my own timeline & that's good enough. It isn't good enough and I'll ask him again to do the timeline because he needs to do this for me. (On a side note, writing down the timeline with dates has been informative.) Plus, having the timeline will open up more questions that I have. It was eye opening to see that a marriage of 30+ years could be chucked out the window within such a short space of time.

He's heard me say that he has no creditability right now, and he thinks he understands that but really doesn't know it.

How am I feeling? Frustrated, hurt, angry, sad, shocked, worried, anxious, hurt, angry. You know those charts with the smiley faces that you can point to how you feel? How about all of those and sometimes within 10 minutes of each other.

Sometimes it is difficult to try to act normal when I am hurting so badly. Nice thing about working from home is that I can cry without freaking anybody out. It's also isolating so I have nothing to buffer the feelings, or to hear somebody tell a joke.

I read through both books, but do need to go back to re-read and capture the bits that didn't stick the first time through.

I know that he's putting off doing the timeline because he figures I've done my own timeline & that's good enough.

Gently said, and I'm challenging your thinking patterns here,

"I know". You don't know that. Remember how we stop looking for an explanation when we find the first one that suits us, that satisfies us, _our_ thinking? Let's change that to, "I think".

"he's putting off doing the timeline because" and this is an explanation that satisfies your question of "why is he putting off making a timeline?" There are other explanations, though. Like he could be saying, "I don't want to do it." Why? Well, "it is hard and thinking about the A makes me feel badly." Why? "because assholes have A's and I'm not an asshole." Why not?

Or, "I don't think that she needs one." Why? "She wrote one for herself." Why can't you do this thing that she told you that she wanted? "I don't respect her enough to do something that is hard for me." Why?

More accurately, in my opinion, is something like this:

"I think that he's not writing a timeline because he knows that I've written one and he doesns't want to do it."

But this could also be true:

"I don't know why he isn't writing a timeline. He hasn't told me." And this one drops all of the self-created reasons that he isn't doing anything. By letting go of assumptions about why he's doing something you open yourself up to thinking about it more, to really digging deeper into his reasons, why they are selfish, and why he is selfish. Realizing that your needs are secondary to his when he fucks up is a valuable lesson in your value to him.

Again, my own opinion:

He screws another woman. He emotionally destroys you. Then he sits around and reads a few books that you buy and listens when you rave and rant and says, "oh, hey, that's me!" and agrees a few times with you about what an asshole he is. Oh, and the books describe him, too.

Then he goes about laughing with the kids, doesn't really do anything hard at all, and I'm betting (I have no knowledge, here) that pretty soon he's going to start acting shocked and hurt about you being shocked and hurt.

Regret: he's sorry that he got caught. Remorse: he's fully realized how he hurt you and what you are feeling and puts his wants on the back burner to try to help you.

Which is the one that you're seeing and how long will you put up with it?

That's a very good question, by the way. It does take a WS a while to get to remorse. And the whole time that they're getting there the BS is getting stronger and more ready to leave their ass in the dirt.

One more question:

I'll ask him again to do the timeline

Why? He's showing you what is important to him. If he needs reminding let him buy a pad of yellow sticky notes (or use stikynot.exe on a windows machine) and place little stickies around.

What I'm trying to get at is, how long will you keep reminding him of what your needs are? leafields, when will it be enough?

Here's the 800 pound guerilla in the room: Not only was he unfaithful, he had sex with his own flesh and blood.

His emotional impairment and twisted morals run deep, much deeper than a straying husband.

This seems to be a significant event.

He did call the other sis that is arranging the family reunion in July. He told her what happened & then let her know if AP goes, we can't.

Have there been any consequences for him from the truth being told to another sibling?

Take care of yourself!

You need to watch him closely

I worry a bout your kids

Somebody who does this can do anything

justincase said:

This seems to be a significant event.

"He did call the other sis that is arranging the family reunion in July. He told her what happened & then let her know if AP goes, we can't."

I thought that it was, too. However, he still isn't meeting her spoken needs evenly or consistently, so... Is he getting it -or- just a token tossed out to appease?

If he was just tossing out token support then it seems like her request for a timeline would be the more likely token since it keeps the secret, while telling a sibling doesn't.

It did seem an odd choice to make given that he isn't being consistently supportive.

I am going to step in here and drive you all crazy.

This is a different issue. He was adopted at 4. Did he get to spend time with his adoptive parents and get to know them before he was moved? Was he bounced around from home to home before that? The building blocks of self-esteem, feeling lovable, and worthwhile are done before age 4. If he lived in chaos and was not allowed to form a deep attachment he is a very damaged man. Why I keep telling you to separate this out is because he needs to heal his little child. That little boy that is still inside him that could not make sense of a senseless life.

It is so difficult for those of us who have not been through this to understand just how deep the desire for a lost bond is. Forming attachments and bonds begin at birth. There are all sorts of studies about what happens to children when that is not allowed to happen. I suggest you read up on it. You need to learn a great deal of sympathy and empathy for him. I am separating this out from your pain because I can tell you that often men try to bond through sex. I think this is what happened here. When I say he lost his mind I really mean it. I make no excuses for a grown man doing this I make a lot of excuses for a little boy who so desperately need answers to what happened to him when he was little. I make excuses for a little boy who yearned for those people from his childhood. Almost none of us can remember when we were four years old but I promise you somewhere in every one of our brains are those memories. Most of ours are good ones he his are not.

Cooley2here opined:

Almost none of us can remember when we were four years old

I remember quite clearly being 4 years old. That's about when Mom started the sexual stuff with me.

I don't remember being verbally abused and physically beaten until a bit later, though.

In your opinion, then, should we be recommending something like:

The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma by Bessel Van Der Kolk

or something similar?

Or, exactly what?

The anniversary of my mom's passing & my FIL's passing caused me to take a bit of a break.

Where am I at now? Still in the I-don't-know phase. Still attending IC. WH has been in IC & has been sober from porn for almost 2 months. We have a check-in twice per day. (I could always tell when he was using a lot of porn because of the disconnect in our relationship.)

Anyway, he didn't go to see Sib #9 in May, but AP did. After returning home, AP called Sib #9 & told her that "things got out of hand & we spontaneously had sex". (Right!) I had a nice, long talk with Sib #9 & gave her more details so she knows that this was a deliberate step taken by WH & AP. Sib #9 is disgusted & doesn't know why I'm staying. (I'll admit that partly it's hard to flush 30+ years away & I need health insurance for awhile.) WH & I are scheduled to go visit Sib #9 next month.

And to top it all off - Sib #9 shared some gossip with me. AP thought she was pregnant, even though she's 54. AP went for an ultrasound & there's nothing there. But Sib #0 said that AP was going to keep the baby. (When did my life turn into a soap opera?) AND - AP thinks WH had nothing to do with the NC letter - that's all on me.

To top it off, Sib #2 wants us to come there for Thanksgiving. She lives in the same town as AP, but says that the AP will not be able to come over. WH & I discussed, but since AP is a bunny boiler, he's saying that we shouldn't go. Yes, he's now recognizing that AP is nuttier than a fruitcake.

My anxiety levels re up & down. I'm taking some Valerian root to help, but sometimes it doesn't. WH has made me an appointment with a GP, which is coming up in a couple of weeks.

But, he's also been a butt-head at times. Last night, he didn't want to talk much because he was tired after a day at work. I pointed out that he could spend 1-2 hours on the phone with AP after a long day & I expected to get more than monosyllables from him.

Half way through Not Just Friends & started Living & Loving After Betrayal by Stosny. I am going to be more mindful of the exercises in Stosny's book & do them.

His IC has us doing FANOS together. F is for feeling & we're supposed to share how we're feeling. A for Affirmation (say something positive or thank you to spouse), etc. I've started a journal.

My IC is helping me with anxiety & talking through issues. He's helping me with my thought processes & is helping me with anxiety.

On a positive note, my oldest son & his wife had a positive pregnancy test this past weekend. My grandson says that if it's a girl, the name should be Abby. If it's a boy, then it should be Sonic. I hope the baby isn't born on the same day that's the same as the day WH & AP had sex.

Devoted, the reason you remember age 4 is because of the trauma. Most childhoods pass with not much fanfare. Yours had foghorns and megaphones.

I make no excuses for the sexual acting out. I hope that he gets help with IC.

Please read about reattachment disorder. No child should have to wonder who he belongs to. Bonding begins at birth. It can be a damaged attachment which causes all sorts of emotional pain.

You can support his sibling reunification with the caveat that he has nothing to do with the sister. His other siblings might give him the sense of belonging he yearns for.

You are sickened by what he did and I am sickened by what was done to him when he was a helpless child.