SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You seem focused on the external issues. Instead of worrying about how om was in bed, you should be worrying about a wife who is so reckless, cavalier and out of touch with how this would go down if you found out.

Other than squirting a few years and being "excellent" whatever that means, what has she done to heal you?

You don't need a poly to see how much she enjoyed it. You need a poly to see if she is holding back information. Such as, is this her first rodeo.

Has she been tested for stds?

Has she come clean with her family? Is she still going out to the Gym?

You apparently haven't had enough conversations in the last 6 months to get to the bottom of what happened. If you had, you would already have some idea of the level of intensity.

By the way, she sounds like a world class entitled user. Manipulative too. What's she doing about that?

longsadstory1952

You wrote

"By the way, she sounds like a world class entitled user. Manipulative too. What's she doing about that?"

This is not true at all. She has been a great wife for 26.5 years. For six weeks she fucked someone else twice a week.

Unfortunately this action has caused me incredible agony.

Wool94

You wrote:

"And you know this how?"

In response to my comment:

"I am a little smaller than average in that department"

A ruler and statistics

I'm one of the few here who believes (trusts) that my WW's affair sex was much worse than ours.

Why do I think that is true?

First, we had always had really good sex and I frankly can't imagine how it might get even better. I know her well, her reactions, what works and what doesn't for her, I get most of my pleasure giving it to her. There's nothing we haven't tried.

Most of her affair sex happened in the car/forest/office, i.e. settings where there are certain constraints on poses, comfort, etc. I know from our experience that in such cases it is exciting overall, but sex itself is not that great.

WW said me once that orgasm is probably 80% of the pleasure she receives during sex. She admitted to AP3 that she never had orgasm with her APs. I believe that, since it is not easy for her to orgasm and there were only 5 cases where she was comfortable (i.e. bed in a hotel) enough even to try for one.

I asked WW to rate quality of the sex with her APs (considering our average to be 7). She rated AP1 - 0, AP2 - 3-4, AP3 - 1-2. I have recording of her with AP3. She was so eager to get on his dick, but once she got there, it was absolute "meh" (I called him Zinger, as in sewing ). I don't have recordings/pictures/texts of her with AP1 or AP2, so, logically, if she wanted to minimize, she had no reason to rate AP2 higher. Or she could have rated AP1 higher (she had ~6 fucks with AP1, ~20 with AP2 and 2 with AP3). You could argue that the reason AP2 has higher rating is that it would be easier to explain why she fucked with him so many times, but I doubt that. She explained higher rating "he was the only one that at least showed some effort to please me".

And now we get to "if the sex was so bad, why return for more?".

I witnessed that sex with AP3 was definitely bad. But three days later, she did everything to make him come over to her office again, he didn't bring condoms (he definitely had time for a short visit to the shop), she [acted] very disappointed, tried to suck him off, and at the end of the their encounter she was so wet that it showed through her jeans. But she refused to be pleasured by hand. Go figure...

Sex with AP1 was absolute zero. But he called her, and she went for more (quick fucks in the woods), she said everything was exciting except the sex. IC explained that women in such "relationships" often enter the cycle - by sleeping with a man woman expects validation, expects self worth increase. She expects the man to suddenly become attached to her, to fall in love with her, but somehow it doesn't happen, she still feels like only a hole. So she fucks him again and again hoping that next time she will finally start feeling validated or loved or whatever. It becomes an obsession. My WW came out of this cycle by starting relationship with AP2 (ha ha ha, perfect solution). Something similar happened with AP3 - she wanted to make him want her. After the first time she realized that it is hopeless, but she tried once more. After that they met one time, but only to have lunch (and after that her shitty little affair world was blown to pieces). Now how does she explain why she fucked so many times with AP2? It is common knowledge that most women have affairs not for sex itself, but for validation, ego kibbles, etc. When WW started her affairs, she didn't start it because she exactly wanted to fuck other guys. She started because she wanted to have an excitement of an affair and she was ready to take whole package. She also said she imagined that affair sex should be incredible and all through her As she was expecting it to become exactly that but it never did.

Now a little bit about your situation. About the questions - unfortunately, I think that you have to ask the questions. Otherwise they will eat you inside.

About quality of the sex - your WW fucked with a man, who is obsessed with his body. This is definitely not his first time, I suppose it is his MO (maybe he has a thing for older women (AP3 did, my WW was the same age as him and was "too young" for him)). So what we have here is a definitely self-oriented guy fucking his next "victory". Do you think he cared a shit about her? No, he just didn't like to masturbate when there was available hole (sorry, but that's what your WW was for him and I hope she realizes that). And your WW? She was paying with her holes for the pleasure of being "wanted" by younger and fitter guy (that makes her still desirable, right?). Do you expect a "good sex" to come out of such combination? I highly doubt that.

And, BTW, maybe your WW kept up with 3-4 times a week with you, because she came home frustrated and horny, not satisfied.

Whatever I wrote, you should be ready for any kind of answers. The problem is that you'll always be unsure if she tells you "the sex was mediocre" :(

That got kind of long...

What consequences has your wife had for her affair?

MM42,

A ruler and statistics

.

Whether this guy was bigger than you or not, (I believe he's compensating for something myself) he's still a P(iece) O(f) S(hit). He can't compare to you in any way that really matters.

He's not he prize here, you are.

I realise this is tearing you up, a and I hate it. I was just trying to lighten your mood.

I've never really felt the need to compare myself to other men. I'm not in Jr high anymore either.

But to answer what you originally asked, ask all the questions you need to.

Do like I did, sit down and write them out.

Have your wife write out a timeline of the affair.

I would ask my wife whatever popped into my head at the time. I don't regret knowing any of the details.

It was worse for me not knowing, because that means I had to fill in the gaps with my imagination. My imagination was much worse.

I don't see any real answer ever to your questions.

Any wise woman knows to say he's bigger, better, best, etc in her situation is just going to drop another nuke on the m.

If she says he wasn't you won't be sure if its honest and if she says he was you are crushed.

So sorry your here man. Know that you're not alone, I'm there with you, as are many of the other BS's here. It's a unique brand of awful that we have to deal with, and we all get a slightly different version, but it's all awful.

I spent many, many days obsessing about the sex. My W did things with the OM she wouldn't do with me, which made it much worse. But, I'm going to generalize here and probably get myself in trouble, but, you and I are both thinking about it like men. Another poster said it, sex is like air for many women, better/worse, it doesn't really matter because they don't care that much.

Think about it this way. If your W wanted the "best" sex of her life, she could easily call up a massively hung/good looking porn star and he'd come over and knock her socks off. There are stories about it online, but really famous porn stars get propositioned this way occasionally; and sometimes women write about the experience (often not at all what they expected). But for most women, if "best sex" is their goal, they could have 20 guys a week to "test out" and see who's the best for them. As almost no women do this, it's pretty clear that "best sex" isn't much of a selection criteria for them. Also "big d**k", while more common a desire for women, isn't exactly the end all be all of "I love this man and will marry him".

Simply put, your looking at your W's A from a "male perspective", just like I would and did. If you were risking an A with someone, the sex better be fantastic, right? And I believe for a lot of male AP's, that is a very important part of the A for them, if the sex sucks, they move on. And female AP's, as much as they don't want to think it, they know, if the sex dries up, or if they try to say no to certain sex acts, the relationship is over. But what they are after, what they are getting from the A isn't sex; it would be silly to cheat for sex, most women have more "sex" than they want; why go out for more?? They are cheating for other reasons, reasons that I'll be honest, still make little/no sense to me and maybe never will (and you might be the same), but, reasons that I've come to accept are real. My W didn't even really like sex, she had childhood hangups about it; she'd orgasm easily and often, but she always felt guilty about it. She could take it/leave it. And yet, here she is in an A, playing the role of sex goddess?? But she was playing that role so that she could get the OM to say how wonderful she is, how pretty she is, and how amazing she is. That's what she got from the A, she traded porn star sex for it.

So sorry you're here man. Honestly, asking your W "if it was better" or if the OM was bigger, it's a fools errand. Just assume it was and he was. She'll never tell you yes to either of those questions. Focus on what you want, and how to rebuild (or not) your relationship. If she's been denying you things sexually, you might want to ask if she did them in the A; be ready, it's likely she did, and perhaps you can incorporate them into your sex life. The advice I always give cheating women, the way to get a man to R, or at least to consider R, tell the truth and open the sexual menu. Do things with her the OM didn't, and things you haven't done before. Those are the things that will make you feel like you have something special again, and will make you feel less emasculated by the OM.

I struggle every day with the sex, but it wanes. In my case It’s because of a sex act I will not do, which she did. My wh spent 5 months in a physical affair with his direct report. She’s not younger, not attractive, not educated, not polished, not nice, not good at her job, is married with 4 kids. I take great care of myself, and I’m a total rock star of a wife and mother. Yet I carry the burden of that sex.

What I can tell you is that a few years out, and like you my wh confessed, he will tell you the only th8ng he thinks about the sex is that it was the most humiliating and regrettable time of his life. No fond memories of any of it. Time has a way of doing this. He only thinks about it when I bring it up. He’s not rugsweeping, he has done more therapy and work on himself than I thought possible,

When he ended the affair, I had just left with the kids for the summer. Basically, he could have had 2 months more of unlimited sex with her and no sneaking around. Interest8ngly, that’s when he ended it. The allure seems to have been in the secrets, not in the act. Let’s say I (and our family) gave him 80% life satisfaction, she and his job gave him 20% (I’m being very generous with her here, she’s a dirty pillowcase). Now he had 100%, but somehow gave her the credit for this 100%. Then I left, and he had less than 20%. Dropped her when quite honestly she could have moved into my house and worn my clothes and lived my life and had sex all the time. She wanted my life - not for love, but for our $.

Even if it was the best sex of his life, and I’ll never know, it was only because she played the part of “enthusiastic partner”. The allure was that she was having sex with him. Anyone could have filled that role. It’s more that he was having sex with his awesome self, and she was the masturbation tool/mirror/zoom lens. It’s fake and unsustainable, and there’s no real connection. She parroted back what he wanted to hear. It was just a matter of who disappointed whom first and then poof, over.

The insecurity is still there on my end, but his shame and regret and remorse is palpable. There’s no fondness in what he did. Worst decision of his life.

On a separate note: I’ve been with my wh for 30 years, since I was 18. We were on and off before marrying, so I dated a lot in my 20s. The best sex of my life was not with my husband, it was with a fun summer fling with a fun guy. We didn’t have a real connection, we weren’t in love, I never saw him again, and my memories are fond because it was youth, summer, no responsibilities, no one got hurt feelings, just sweet fun. I have no regrets and I never had any desire to look him up and I never thought “what if...”. The only man I have ever loved is my wh, and the connection I have with him means more than anything I ever got/did/experienced with anyone else. No comparison.

Hi Mike,

What leaps out of this for me is something that has been touched on by a few other members, which relates hugely to the 'quality' of the sex that occurred with the gym monkey. I totally 'get' that you have some issues about yourself and your 'size'. I think that is a consequence of a lot of what goes on in the media.

Unfortunately, we live in a world where some pretty peculiar or exaggerated body shapes and proportions can be held up as some kind of 'ideal'. If aliens were to watch a lot of porn, they would get a somewhat skewed idea of what human beings look like.

The women would be primarily blonde, hairless below waist level, with large fake breasts. The men would all look like they lift weights for a few hours a day, and be equipped with genitalia more suited to drilling for oil than lovemaking or procreation.

And yet, if you look around any shopping mall, how many 'real' people look like that? Not many. So does that mean that the vast majority of people have mediocre, unsatisfying sex lives, because they do not look like exaggerated cartoon sex machines? Of course not! Real life is not a porno movie.

Great sex can be had between people who love each and have feelings for each other, regardless of whether they would pass the casting call to appear in a porno movie. You seem to be very 'down' on yourself about your dimensions. Seriously, my friend, don't be.

If a woman was to assign worth or value to a man based on the size of his dick, she would not be a woman worth knowing. In fact, she would have mental problems. The same would be true about a man who obsessed about breast size, and who felt that busty women were superior to less 'chesty' women. A person who thinks along those lines would be a terminally shallow individual, wouldn't they? Any sensible person would ditch someone like that, not try to please them. So take some time to ponder whether or not your wife is that shallow. If she isn't, maybe you can stop giving dick-size more priority in your mind that it had in hers.

Another point that occurs to me, purely based on my own experiences, is that when I am in love with someone, every part of them becomes 'great' because it is a part of them; the person I love. When I am with a woman that I love, I honestly do not worry about whether or not they are a perfect ten, or how big or small their breasts are, etc. I see them as a whole person, and their bodies as a means to give them physical pleasure via kissing, caressing, and so on. I don't look at their 'assets' as something for me to use for my pleasure, but as something that I can stimulate for their pleasure.

You seem to be hung up on the idea that the gym monkey was somehow superior to you. I understand that many of us guys are wired up competitively, and we tend to presume that women's minds work the same way. The fact is, they don't. What I have been told in real life, and read here, is that the attraction/quality of the sex that occurs in affairs is not that it is better or worse than what occurs in the marriage, but that it is different. Not better, not worse; different.

Then you have to factor in the 'forbidden' nature of affair sex, which is a kick for some people, and also the fact that many women say that what they got out of the ex was either (1) validation and a sense of being an object of desire, or (2) a way to keep their male affair partner interested in providing the emotional ego kibbles that are the real point of the affair from their perspective.

So affair sex is not always great, or even good, and the reasons and motivation for it to happen are different to the reasons it happens as part of a long-term, loving relationship. For many women, it is the stuff that happens around the sex that frames it and gives it a reason.

In your case, you have said that your wife was concerned about her weight, and got validation and pleasure from the fact that the gym monkey pursued her. So that, right there, is why she wound up having the affair, not the size of his equipment, or his technique. Of course, her lack of boundaries was also a factor, but that is not what I am trying to get at here.

You are wondering about questions to ask your wife, many of which are almost designed to hurt yourself, because they are based on your deepest anxieties, and on some kind of comparison between you and the gym monkey. I respectfully suggest that you consider taking another approach, which will be more productive for you, particularly if you want to remain with your wife and get her to frame the affair in a way that will put her off the idea of every repeating the experience.

So instead of focusing on a contest between you and the gym monkey, why not ask these questions instead?

1) Do you think he loved you?

2) Do you think he respected you, as a married woman who gave in to him so easily?

3) What do you think he really thought about you as he had sex with you?

4) Do you think he approaches every insecure middle-aged woman with exactly the same routine, and pounces when he finds easy pickings?

5) How many other married women do you think he has got to betray their husbands and families?

6) Do you feel validated to join that list of his easy conquests?

7) If he is a man who exploits women that he identifies as low-hanging fruit and easy pickings because of their insecurities and need for validation, how does that make you feel about your relationship to him, and what you really represented to him?

8) Do you feel his motivations were based on a true attraction to you, or because it was so easy to get with you?

9) How many other women was he also having sex with during the six weeks of the affair?

10) Given the lives that are being permanently damaged by the actions of that man, are you prepared to make a complaint to the owners of the gym, detailing his approach to you, and his inviting you to his apartment for unprotected sex?

11) If you are not prepared to report his conduct to his employers, what responsibility do you feel for the damage he will do in future to other peoples' marriages and families by repeating his exploitative behaviour with other women?

The reason I suggest that approach is that it seems like the best way to invalidate the affair, and make your wife realise that the gym monkey was a complete and utter exploitative POS who simply used her because she responded to him. That by focusing on these aspects, as hurtful as they may be to your wife (just as the affair has hurt you), you can start blowing away any mystique or excitement relating to the affair and the gym monkey, and turn it into what it really was: a man with no respect for women who found an easy target to prey on, with no regard for the emotional damage he caused.

What your wife has to work on, big time, is why she was so easily persuaded into the affair. You see, that is not about the gym monkey at all, but all about her. He is not some irresistible sex god. He is just a sleazy POS on the make, and most women would spot his type a mile off. So rather than answering questions about his genitals or technique, what your wife should really be focusing on is why she responded so willingly to what was obviously a line of total BS from a stranger. And more to the point, why she wouldn't be susceptible to a few inappropriate comments and advances in future.

You see, the real issue here is not how you measure up or perform in the bedroom. It is about how she measures up and performs as a wife and life-partner. It is not any deficiency on your part that caused this affair, but there is a ton of stuff that she has to work on to prove that she is still worthy of the love and esteem that you have given her for more than twenty years.

So please stop beating yourself up, or worrying about who has a bigger dick. Affairs happen between people, not body parts, and your wife has to figure out and explain why she sacrificed her integrity for a man like that. You have nothing to explain, justify, or feel bad about. The problem is her lack of boundaries and honesty, not the size of your equipment.

And here is a parting thought: if sex with you was somehow 'bad' or unsatisfactory, your wife would not be doing it with you several times a week, would she? She had sex with the gym monkey for validation because of her doubts about herself, not because he was a sex god. Unless your wife is an idiot, she knew exactly what he was; every woman would. So when she has sex with you, it is not just about the physical mechanics of it. It also includes a much deeper dimension, which is about your love for each other, your shared history, and your plans for the future. That is an element where the gym monkey could not compete at all with you, isn't it?

[This message edited by M1965 at 8:52 AM, June 18th (Monday)]

And, BTW, maybe your WW kept up with 3-4 times a week with you, because she came home frustrated and horny, not satisfied.

This is basically what my WW told me when I asked her about the quality of sex during the affair with her personal trainer. She said OM focused exclusively on himself, leaving her frustrated. She said she would come home to me for the good sex. Quite frankly, this didn't make me feel any better and I was very repulsed by it. It still makes me ill to think about it. So fucking disgusting!

[This message edited by HardenMyHeart at 9:35 AM, June 18th (Monday)]

You are now haunted by mind movie's.You're mind has the tendency to exaggerate and in you're fantasy they had mind blowing sex. Maybe in real life the sex was mediocore. I think the best is to ask you're Ww for the full truth. Then you will be able to process it and heal. But as long as you're retroactive jealosy will haunt you reconciliation will be difficult and you will start to resent you're ww.

Its been 6 months since DDay and you are still focusing on the wrong parts of her Affair.

Here are some questions for you :

1. Why did she confessed ?

Someone saw her or maybe her good friend helped her!

2. Did she apologized ?

3. How about a timeline ?

4. Is she still going to the gym or any other gym ? Is she going on "girl nights out" ?

6. STD test hmm ?

7. Did she gave you paswords to her mobile,mail,facebok and other accounts ?

8. Did she reported POSOM ?

9. Did YOU expose her Affair ?

Lots of questions and you still worry about penis size.

Good luck.

Its been 6 months since DDay and you are still focusing on the wrong parts of her Affair.

Hi Anna, Welcome to SI. From my experience on SI, I have found that everyone heals differently and may focus on certain aspects of the affair before they can move on. These aspects can vary significantly based on the type of affair and the gender of the BS.

Anna80

1. Why did she confessed ?

She felt guilty

Someone saw her or maybe her good friend helped her!

NO- I asked her this question

2. Did she apologized ?

YES-A zillion times... she has been very good to me since the affair

3. How about a timeline ?

YES.

4. Is she still going to the gym or any other gym ? Is she going on "girl nights out" ?

NO -she stopped going to the gym and no longer needs to loose any weight because she went on the anxiety induced affair diet where she stopped eating normally for months

6. STD test hmm ?

She and I were both tested... negative

7. Did she gave you paswords to her mobile,mail,facebok and other accounts ?

I never asked and dont want them. I trust her and she is an engineer so she could find ways around all tracking software

8. Did she reported POSOM ?

I asked for a meeting with him and his boss at the gym to review his behavior and his charges. He was billing us for the hours he was having sex with my wife.

He was fired

9. Did YOU expose her Affair ?

I told two of my friends and she told her whole immediate family.

Lots of questions and you still worry about penis size.

Good luck.

Mike I think one thing you need to keep in mind that while your did have sex with him that was not her primary motivation. It is common almost to the point of a cliche that an older woman feels validated in her "looks" from a man to the point that it provides what we call ego kibbles. She never learned to validate and love herself and always relied on others to do that for her.

No the sex. I am guy so I am going off of what I hear from women, but good sex at the time (for reasons listed above) is viewed as less than stellar after the fact. The perspective changes greatly.

I think the best thing you can do right now is find an IC and really dig into this with them. Ultimately at some point you are going to have to talk to your W. Your mind is not helping you right now. Making this out to be something it is not is killing you.

In all liklihood the images you have in your head are nowhere near what really happened or even how your W views them now.

IC and than talk. It goes without saying your W really needs IC to figure out why she would do this to validate herself. If she looks at the trade off I'd bet she will readily admit none of this was worth it.

You need IC. This stuff can create PTSD and playing these painful thoughts over and over in your head aren't helping you at all.

If you are having trouble communicating then maybe MC would be a good step after you are both established with different ICs.

There is no way around this. You have to walk right through the middle of it in all it's ugliness. I am really sorry, but if you want these thoughts to stop and you want to get back to living your life again then there is only one way to that place. It will hurt, it will be painful and will send you all over the map emotionally.

This is something you get through. You really don't have another option that ultimately gets you what you want. Control over these thoughts and looking positively towards your future again. It takes work and while it is hard it is so worth it.

I remember earlier on looking at my W A as the worst time in my life. It still is, but I also see how strong I was and that very few things would be worst than that. I survived and I cam out the other side happy. My W busted her ass too and went out of her way to fix her issues too. In time her A remains that "her A." I take zero responsibility for that.

I know this sounds corny, but she had this A because of her issues. Nothing you could have done would have stopped her. If it wasn't trainer guy it would have been a co-worker, neighbor, some random guy online. She was looking for validation in any way that she could. Most guys don't give that freely without something in return. You know what that thing is. It is something she could provide to keep the compliments and validation coming.

You complimented and validated her all time. Most BHs already do that. That points to a real issue that your W has that needs to be addressed by a professional. One does not unlearn stuff like that overnight. She really needs IC in the worst way. I think it would be a really good thing for you too.

Hang in there. Keep posting. We've all been there at one point or another. We understand what you are going through.

This is basically what my WW told me when I asked her about the quality of sex during the affair with her personal trainer. She said OM focused exclusively on himself, leaving her frustrated. She said she would come home to me for the good sex. Quite frankly, this didn't make me feel any better and I was very repulsed by it. It still makes me ill to think about it. So fucking disgusting!

HMH, yep, you are right. It is fucking disgusting and when I wrote it I didn't mean to portray it as something "good". It is not. I was just concentrating on OPs question about affair sex quality.

Mike, good job on getting him fired!

M1965 is exactly correct. Great post by him there.

BTW, I am like you, I would be haunted by the mind movies.

Ramius asked a great question above. What are the consequences for her so far ?

Western:

You asked what her consequences are so far.

She really hasnt had many consequences except dealing with her husband who will barely look at her, talk to her or touch her.

She did tell her two sisters, her brother and her parents. She had to tell them because they lived near us and were a big part of our social life. Her family was very disappointed in her. Her parents have loved me for 27 years. Her mom started bringing me my favorite foods.

After the affair I stopped talking to almost everyone and started to isolate. She had to explain to them why I stopped spending time with them and everyone else.

I am conflicted about this site.

There is some truly excellent advice on this site but there are also men on this site that seem to be trolls trying to cause pain and provocation. The women dont seem to be trolls.

Am I wrong that some of the posters are just trolls ?