SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Numb&Dumb - Yes, this is exactly it.

Almost a year ago to this day, I got to the point that I knew I needed to move on. I was too exhausted to do anything else. I could D or I could try for R. If I chose D I was gone forever. I would not try again; and I knew I could D at any point in the future. If I was going to try for R, I needed to be all in. It took quite some time, and we have had severe bumps along the way, but us moving forward into R meant that I had to do as you describe. I had to give the M an honest chance. AS you say....I put down the sword.

Somewhere in there I also stopped referring to her as my WW or fWW and started just calling her my wife. She is just my wife now. My flawed, beautiful wife.

Maybe we could create some new Three Letter Acronyms (TLA's)

1) FBW - Flawed Beautiful Wife

2) FHH - Flawed Handsome Husband

3) FS - Flawed Spouse

4) ASS - Ass (for those not ready to put down the sword )

My husband cheated. Its apart if our story. There is no sword. No parent child relationship. We are partners in our relationship.

4 years in and R is going really well. Refusing to call him a "former" cheater is not indicative of the state of our marriage or our ability to R. Nor should it be a sign for anyone else.

Again...if your R doesnt look like someone else doesn't mean it's not healthy or happy. It means that its NOT YOUR R.

Prissy4lyfe for he win. I feel exactly as you do

Refusing to call him a "former" cheater is not indicative of the state of our marriage or our ability to R. Nor should it be a sign for anyone else.

Absolutely true!

I have a WH who, from day one, has been a model WH. If he was anything other than that I would D him. I stay because my WH has worked daily to fix what he destroyed. He has become a better H, father, person. Just because I refuse to forgive him for his A does not mean that I greet him each morning with, "Good morning you cheating scumbag" After 8 years I am no longer preoccupied with the fact that he cheated but I will never forget it.

So, don't be so quick to assume that those who do not forgive have a M that is not happy or satisfying or a WH who isn't doing in the work.

I am a realist. My WH cheated and is a complete asshole for doing that. Nothing will change that. Going forward he can do his due diligence to change and become a BETTER person. He promised to spend the rest of his life making it up to me ~ I'm holding him to that!

I believe once someone cheats, they earn the title Cheater forever.

Theres a line once you cross you can't take it back.

There are people who forgive their cheater, thats up to them. But their spouse is still a cheater.

There are dangers in taking a cheater back. They know youre willing to forgive them. They know how you caught them before. They know how to sneak around. They have all the tools and abilities to do it again.

Dont tell me they made a promise. They made a vow to you and they still cheated.

Yes a cheater must be reminded they are a cheater. An alcoholic going to AA meetings admit they are alcoholics everytime they go. Cheaters need to be reminded they cheated regularly. I dont care if your feelings get hurt. You lost that priviledge when you initially cheated.

But their spouse is still a cheater.

Nope, he isn't. His cheating doesn't define him. He doesn't have to define himself that way and I won't define him that way. If I felt that way, I wouldn't be able to continue a relationship with him.

Yes a cheater must be reminded they are a cheater.

No, they do not. Not a remorseful one, not one that is/has done the work to make sure they are a safe partner. My FWH knows what he did and doesn't forget it. It is his greatest shame and his biggest regret. I do not need to remind him, he is his own harshest critic.

I am amazed at how many perfect people are members here at SI. They have never made bad choices, have never hurt someone. And if they did, are they harangued for the rest of their lives for the bad choice they made, for the pain they caused? IDK. I know I have made bad choices, I have hurt people. I am so happy that no one in my life constantly reminds me, and labels me, with my worst actions/choice and they have accepted that I have worked to redeem myself.

I don't blindly trust anyone anymore, but you know what? It was stupid of me to do that in the first place. I am a hell of a lot smarter than that. Well on most days.

Same here.

NumbandDumb, I fully share your perspective.

At the same time, those of you who are comfortable calling your FWS a cheater for the rest of your lives and still don't want a D, so be it. For the most part, I say live and let live.

For me, I'd rather mine be just a Husband. Nobody's perfect and mine isn't either but if I talk about him, I will more likely refer to him as my sweetheart, best friend, life companion, husband, and no I won't include something like cheater or FWS in every day speech or general thoughts, unless I am telling something specific about that time in my life where it might help to clarify what I'm saying. This is just me and I am in no way suggesting that anybody else's experience or perspective needs to be like mine.

I don't need to remind him everyday of what he did...he has live with it. He wrote that chapter in our story.

He cheated. That's the reality.

He is no longer cheating. He is working to be a better man. He is working to live his best life.

I'm not going to beat him in the head with everyday...I'm too busy building myself up to be the healthiest person I can be and live my best life.

He doesn't wear a scarlet letter. .

No I will not refer to him on this site as former cheater. He cheated. In real life He is referred to by his name or Sugar Britches.

Because how people heal and move forward is up to them.

[This message edited by prissy4lyfe at 9:37 AM, July 19th (Thursday)]

I feel a cheater does earn the title cheater from now on. You can be a reformed cheater, but you’re still a cheater by definition.

It seems folks like SMS (not bashing Sis, just using you as an example) that defin the betrayal as a singular choice reach acceptance easier. They’re only dealing with one huge event instead of hundreds or thousands of choices and betrayals. Just my observation.

In real life He is referred to by his name or Sugar Britches.

Thanks for clarifying that, prissy. I couldn't imagine being able to have a healthy reconciliation if one was calling their no longer cheater spouse a cheater constantly.

I didn't take that as bashing stayedforthekids. I agree. We are all individuals. How we process and view things and come to terms with different situations is all dependent on who we are as a person. And, you are right, I am able to group my reformed (I like that sassy!) WH's LTA as a singular event and not take each every single betrayal (7 year LTA, astronomical number of betrayals) which may have helped me in my acceptance. I wouldn't say it was easier, though. I was pretty fucking broken for 3 long years and it was a full 5 years before I felt fully healed.

I am the kind of person that is able to, after a time of processing and healing, to leave the past in the past. It isn't something that is relevant to me. But, I understand that for others the past is something that is always, or often is, within their realm of thought.

Wishing much peace and serenity for all.

I feel a cheater does earn the title cheater from now on.

This really resonates with me. I feel the same way. Just like someone who is a child abuser or a thief. Sure they might have learned and they might actually live a healthier safer life but I wouldn't trust any of them around my wife or my kids. I don't think cheating is just the act of someone having a relationship with someone outside of their current relationship. I think its so much more than that. It shows the person has the willingness to lie and deceive intentionally to even the closest people in there lives. They are willing to put there dearest love ones at risk of violence or disease. The emotional abuse alone should be criminal.

Sorry about the vent.

To those of you trying to reconcile I wish you the best. I just found I could not do it.

C

SMS....he is actually in my phone as Sugar britches. LOL

I just showed him this post...he was like

"AWW man..."

[This message edited by prissy4lyfe at 11:37 AM, July 19th (Thursday)]

I forgot that this started as a vent, and I therefore apologize for responding.

They have never made bad choices, have never hurt someone.

This drives me CRAZY. To answer your question: NO, I have never ever intentionally devastated anyone the way a WS devastates his/her spouse/family. Please do not attempt to lump people into that category.

Let's see... I did I tell a person they were a self-serving POS. I have no idea how you can put that into the same category as the hurt inflicted by a cheater. Was my "bad choice" equal to the bad choice of a murderer as well?

Yes, we all make bad choices. However, some people make HORRENDOUS choices. don't compare those two.

His cheating doesn't define him.

Completely disagree with this.^^^ Your actions do define you.

[This message edited by RidingHealingRd at 6:05 PM, July 19th (Thursday)]

Only here, have I ever heard that someone's actions don't define them.

But, then, those same people, tell betrayed spouses to watch their WS actions, to determine remorse, NC,etc.

Hey, RHR, I didn't lump you in with anyone. My statement was rhetorical. I said I was amazed at all the perfect people here at SI. If you have never made a bad choice, awesome. If you have never hurt someone, intentionally or not, awesome.

I know I have made bad choices and those choices don't define who I am. What I do going forward after that choice defines who I am.

If a WS's bad choices will always define them, I don't see how they will have any incentive for them to change who they are if they are going to always be defined by their worst choices. *shrug*

we all make bad choices. However, some people make HORRENDOUS choices. don't compare those two.

You get to have your opinion, RHR. I get to have mine. Please don't give me an order about what I may or may not "compare". Thank you.

I have to agree with Sis on this one. To me, after everything my W has done for me and for our family, faithfully and without fail, more than forty years after her ONS, to still be branded a cheater is ludicrous. Her cheating does not define her. I am proud to call her W.

But everyone is different and process things differently. I certainly understand the perspective of those who have a continuing need to call their WS a cheater forever no matter what has transpired subsequent to the betrayal. It is much simpler and keeps the cheater in their proper place throughout the rest of their life. Whatever you decide to call your WS, I wish strength and healing to all BS’s.

One thing infidelity and its unending supply of $hit sandwiches has taught me is that I am more of a "black and white" type thinker.

So for me yes, my fWH will always be a cheater. But for me this doesn't mean he is still cheating or is going to cheat. And I don't think he needs to be reminded of this directly. His indirect reminders are things like full transparency, minimal female contact etc.

I know he is remorseful and is very aware of what he has done to me and our family so I feel no need to throw it in his face or bring it up much anymore.

Oh and I also believe "once a cheater always a cheater". To me this means they have proven they are capable of cheating and so there must be safeguards put in place to prevent them from doing so again. To contrast some of us "esp. black and white thinker types" are simply not capable of cheating. We are imperfect people of course, but just aren't cheater types.

[This message edited by whattheh at 11:26 PM, July 19th (Thursday)]

I believe that our actions do define us. I can't think of anything else that does....however, we are always evolving and we are who we are because of our choices and actions. It also means that we can change who we are and therefore become better people making better choices..

Our previous choices, did in fact, define who we were at the time of those choices. Who we are now, is defined by the choices we are making now.

Thats how I see it.

In my mind, my WH will always be the guy that cheated on me and broke my heart into a million pieces. However, he will also be the guy who is proving that he loves me and only me by his choices now.

Personally, I don't see any reason to worry about former, ex, recovering, reformed-etc....although I do like recovering or reformed best. I just don't see any significance to it.

I don't call my WH, wayward husband, anywhere but here on SI. IRL, I call him by his name. We don't have pet names for each other.

He knows he cheated, I know he cheated. He is the only one who REALLY knows if he is ex, reformed, recovering or former....I can only believe he is telling the truth or believe his actions are sincere and he is remorseful and would never cheat again. In reality, its possible that I am still being lied to, manipulated and betrayed. His actions don't indicate any betrayal however, I have been blindsided in the past and I will never forget the length of the deception.

I am choosing to believe the actions that I see, I have not forgiven my WH-nor will I ever as I see his actions as unforgivable. I choose to see him and our M as before and now. I choose this knowing it could be a lie and if it is, I will D. If its true, I see no reason to have to forgive or consider him reformed or ex etc.

I do believe its semantics. I don't see the point in worrying about this I guess.

Maybe it would be better stated if one says "Your bad choices don't have to define who you are."

Meaning, what you do after you make a bad choice is important and can redeem you. That if you move to correct the reason and damage done by said bad choice, you aren't defined by that bad choice.

Your past and the choices you made, the mistakes you made, are lessons, not a life sentence.