SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

RH, how are you doing?

I have to admit, your thread triggers me a lot. Many infidelity stories have a lot of common components, but somehow yours especially resonates with me. I can absolutely relate to the situation you are currently in. And I'm really afraid that your story will follow mine, because I now know what happens next.

If you remember, I posted a bit of my story. That I read conversation between WW and AP2 which was quite light flirting. This conversation was designed for me (WW was not able to compartmentalize this affair successfully, so wanted it resolved somehow, had no strength to finish it, had no courage to confess, wanted to be found out - very sanitized version of A). Their real communication was carried out via secret gmail account. That's where they said ILY's, where they coordinated meet-ups. Messages were deleted, I didn't see their convos. WW said that it would have been quite difficult to guess from it that they were fucking. She didn't send nudes, he sent a couple of dick-pics (what a style!).

So here I see possible similarity of our stories - it is possible, that your WW and her AP kept "juicy" parts of their affair out of WhatsApp conversations. My paranoid mind sees no other reason to go to her mother's place than to get her story straight, align it to what's in their messages.

My WW was also very firm that nothing physical happened. I also believed her. Until I found proof that she spent the night with him (WW is sometimes "on alert" on her job and can get calls in a middle of the night and has to leave for work) in a hotel. I can remember how "annoyed" and "tired" she was when she received the call from "work" (really - AP) ten minutes past midnight and "had" to leave. When I confronted her, she was still firm that nothing physical happened ("just talked, needed more time together"), but I was not so sure any more. Idiot IC that I was attending at that time did not encourage digging and minimized importance of truth, encouraged rugsweeping and blameshifting. The dissonance between what I felt I needed and what I was told by WW and IC I should be doing was slowly driving me towards suicide. I found evidence of second overnight, I said fuck it, dropped that IC and started digging, found evidence of third, WW admitted to 4 overall, but was still firm that no PA. At around the same time I discovered SI and carefully started applying knowledge, gained here. Too carefully, too cautious.

So, unfortunately, I think that you are me at around the time I uncovered first evidence of overnight (I now know that every "midnight call from work" she received was a fuckfest - 5 overall, 1 with AP1 and 4 with AP2). And I sincerely hope that you will avoid what followed next for me - uncovering truth bit by bit, her constant lies, minimizations, total dissonance between her words and actions, things that destroy you in so many ways you never thought possible.

I wish that you uncover all the truth as fast as possible. That you find the evidence that there was no PA. Or if it was, that your WW comes clean about it and doesn't torture you with TT and minimizations.

There are some things that you need to clarify with your wife and for yourself:

- What were sleeping arangements during their trip? It looks like WW and AP didn't get this part of the story straight, it looks like with "I slept on the couch" he wanted to tell you "see, I didn't sleep with your wife", but in fact indirectly admitted that he had no place to sleep of his own. Your WW, on the other hand, wanted you to believe that he had a room of his own so "didn't know about him sleeping on the couch". Their story combined doesn't make any sense. Just as the rest of the posters I'm 100% sure they slept together, but, most probably unlike many of the posters, I don't believe that sex was involved that night. She already felt that you were onto them, so was in "oh shit oh shit, what we are going to do" mode, and according to my WW, sex was farthest thing on her mind when it happened.

- How often and when they got together? Cross-reference what she tells you with evidence. Maybe GPS track of her car doesn't show anything suspicious, but e.g. my WW's lunch and after work fuck-trips were done in AP's car. So I still stand by my advice to check her google location history. If she drove somewhere with AP, it might show up in her timeline.

- Is it important for you if it was PA? I'm asking this because if affair of any kind is dealbreaker for you and you are going to D her, then having whole truth is not that important. But since you expressed that you would like to R with her, then it becomes VERY important. You can recover and reconcile from almost anything, but you cannot R on the foundation of lies. It is very important that both you and your WW understands that.

- Have you laid down consequences for lies? Most of us suffered greatly because we failed to do that or failed to carry out our threats. You have to define for her and for yourself very clearly what happens if more lies are uncovered (just like you did about tampering with her phone - but were you ready to D her if she returned with wiped phone?).

I hope you were able to uncover their messages and that there you found proof that PA didn't happen. Some say that "EA or PA doesn't matter too much, it is still betrayal", but it does - PA brings a shitload of mind movies and other problems.

Recovering, I pray you are ok.

DarkHoleHeart is one of the best posters here. I remember his story well.

Please check in with us and listen to the collective here. We're not just people on the street, we've been through what you are going through. We don't want you to make our mistakes.

[This message edited by Wool94 at 4:49 PM, September 3rd (Monday)]

Hello everyone.

I want to thank every single one of you for giving me advice and supporting me in this hard time. I have learned a lot and used a lot of your tactics to figure out what is happening and reach the peace I need.

I want you all to know I have reached my peace and I decided to reconciliate. I believe my choice is the right choice and that our love will grow stronger.

after a lot of digging and investigating I will explain it from my point of view.

first of all I want to say that I appreciate your comments whether harsh or not. everyone is talking from experience and knowledge. however, no one knows my wifes personality, loyalty and faith.

I'll write the full timeline here.

to get to this timeline I have used all tactics I have to get every piece of truth available, I believe I cornered my wife and that there is nothing else to hide. I have an answer to every question with acceptable evidence for it.

the first issue I had to tackle is their relationship during the masters. they spent almost one year knowing each other. there was a friendship true, was there an intimate relationship? I don't know but I don't believe there was yet.

during that time we were studying abroad and this OM is also from the same city we were. additionally she was his senior, she used to be his advisor.

one year after we moved back to our city he came. during that time the communications between them was mostly greetings and general conversations.

I saw all the texts, nothing suspicious.

now when he came back he starting working in a prestigious organization right away. my wife was still not working. she started working 6 months after him. that's when they started communicating again to talk about their work and get advice from each other specially from him because she started working in the same position in another institute.

they weren't meeting face to face or talking a lot on the phone, since then for 3 months they met 4 times, first time a tour to his facility with her. that was the first time they meet in public but alone at the same time. I believe nothing happened in that specific occasion.

second meeting with a month after in a conference, it was a 4 day course and they did meet more than once there to talk more

3rd meeting was in an alumni meeting, and 4th meeting she took her mom to his clinic to examine her.

she admits that by then something sparked and they started talking by phone instead of texting a lot.

she states was talking for longer that usual and it gradually became more. the relationship at this point turned into a more deeper and more intimate. but still both of them were not planning any meetings or any PA happened.

now during that time she was planning for her trip to the yoga retreat. she never thought in her mind that she would go with him by then. she made the booking of the airline ticket, and forward it to me using gmail. because me and the OM have the same first name and very similar email.

she sent it by mistake to him. ( this is an area where I investigated for the longest time, because I didn't believe it at all)

but we did go back to her gmail account, and simulated the email and indeed a mistake like that can easily happen. when she writes the first letter of my email his email appears.

that is a very critical point in this story. I know a lot of your will think it is made up but I confirmed it, I believe my wife in this.

now what happened after is the OM told her about the email and knew about the trip she is planning to do. now when he asked her what about he joins. my wife said why not. they talked about the possibility of going for a dinner there and maybe snorkeling.

my wife admits that was a big mistake and she would never do it but she did. she knew it was a mistake when she did it. it bothered her but she didn't open the subject again, neither him.

now this is the part I have to explain my wife. I know her for 13 years, she is one of those girls that are very innocent, rarely does big mistakes out of an impulse. she is very careful, conservative and I always struggle with her to do things our of her comfort level. she has very strong principles and values. that is probably one of the things that help me believe a lot of what happening.

I understand many of you will not get it and I will sound supid believing this.

anyways, my wife always had this feeling that it is wrong, but not sure why she didn't tell him to cancel the trip.

now this is another tricky part I had to undertand, and I talked to my wife a lot about it. she admits that this was very new to her, she may have wanted him to come with her, she felt at that point that she is confident about herself and that nothing would happen there. but when she thinks about it now it surely was a wrong decision and lots could have happened there.

the OM never opened the subject again to my wife. she never confirmed with him if he bought the tickets or made any reservations, she didn't even know that he will be in the airport.

I don't know if whoever is reading relates to this, but I believe that the OM and my wife were worried if any of them will open the subject about the trip or plan anything there that it will sound very wrong and cancel.

anyways, when I dropped my wife to the airport I saw him checking in.

if they were really planning this trip and my wife knew he was checking in she would immediately tell him to wait until I drop her or something like that but shd didn't, and that's how I uncovered this trip. I believe if it was well planned that important event would have been dealt with better than this. at least I would.

so as soon as he saw me in the airport and knew I saw him there. the first thing he told my wife in the airport that he did saw me and think that I knew him.

things got really bad for both of them from there and he decided to drop her and come back. that was also another stupid mistake from my wife that she didn't tell him to stay and not come with her. she told me she was so nervous at that time she didn't know what to think anymore.

you all know what happened after. for the OM not having a reservation I can't find an explanation until now other than that he had hope to spend the night with my wife there.

now for the conclusion. after sitting with my wife for hours and trying to understand everything. there was an EA. it could very likely turned into a PA if they would have been to the trip together.

this is the story that I believe happened, I could go into a paranoid state and continue looking for evidence that is not there.

it saddens me a lot what happened to me and that my wife had an affair. it broke my heart and I felt pain I never felt it before in my life. but my wife was very supportive, showed me remorse and regret, she realized how fucked up the situation is and that she caused a lot of pain to me.

I decided to reconciliate and give her another chance. she will go by the book to show me remorse and seriourness of keeping this relationship intact and that includes NC and everything else.

I want to thank every single one of you. I was overwhelmed and blessed by all your words and advice that helped go through this difficult time. more than 200 posts made me feel cared for and special.

thank you again. this forum is a gem. God bless you all.

You will probably receive a lot of replies telling you things like "she's lying" or "they had sex there is no doubt." I won't be one of those voices. Instead, I will say that affairs and affair sex is no different than ordinary boyfriend/girlfriend relationships and sex. Among other things, even sex-minded adults face balks, miscommunication, and missteps in terms of aligning sexual interest. One person is sexually interested and ready, the other not. The first thinks a scheduled meeting is intended to lead to sex, the other hasn't considered that. They meet. He makes his move. She is taken aback. It's awkward. This stuff happens outside of affairs, and within affairs. What you describe sounds like that.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 7:57 AM, September 4th (Tuesday)]

thank you grace. much appreciated

Hmm. Well just make sure that you bullet proof everything and insist on transparency going forward.

You have done your best to learn your truth. It doesn’t matter whether others believe your WW’s version or not. It is your opinion that counts. You know your WW better than all of us.

Butforthegrace’s response is very insightful. Be vigilant going forward. I hope your WW continues to work on herself and help you heal. Strength to you moving forward. Good luck.

If you are at peace with all this then there's really nothing else to say but best of luck to you and your WW on your road to recovery. Just make sure all your doubts have been addressed before committing to reconciliation.

RH, thanks for the update!

Considering timeline you provided, your WW's story looks plausible. The thing that is the most convincing in her story (at least for me) is the one that looked most suspicious last time - she didn't have "good" explanation on why AP spent the night on the couch. I expected her to come up with elaborate story about why that happened, but she didn't.

I'm really glad for you that you now have at least some peace of mind. And I hope it continues. Just keep your eyes open.

Her actions over the following months and years will probably show if she was truthful. If she is consistent in her efforts to make you feel safe, if her resolve doesn't waver, then most probably you have the truth now. I think that cheaters, who are lying about extent of their affair(s) are unable to be really remorseful and cannot keep up the work required for real R. That's because there's still part of them that is protected with high walls and with these walls standing they cannot really open up and be fully committed to R.

On a side note, "she has very strong principles and values. that is probably one of the things that help me believe a lot of what happening" - unfortunately, this doesn't mean anything. Probably 30% of stories in Just Found Out start with these words :(

Good luck on your path forward! Update us and utilize resources, gathered on SI.

I fully support your decision to accept her explanation and give her a second chance etc.

Life isn't text book...it's messy and there's plenty of reason to give her the benefit of the doubt...especially since you'll fully aware and able to monitor her.

One question, do you recommend Dr Fone? Can you provide feedback on the usefulness of the Dr Fone software to recover messages? Does it recover complete messages or are they all fragments of conversations?

Heart, I still strongly suggest a polygraph test. Her breaking down when you asked her to see the messages turns my stomach. I truly think that you let your fears to bury your head in the sand.

It might well be that your wife tells you the truth, but she lied to you so many times when you confronted her. And then she took some time to prepare for your future confrontations. Why don't you what to check her story out and dot the i's? This gullible attitude will lead you to bigger dramas in the future.

PS: One little detail: if she sent the tickets to him instead of you, it simply means it was not her first email to him. Also, when you call your wife faithful and loyal, please reread your own words in the first post "I was so in shock I couldn't believe what's happening so I called my wife and she was so calm and denied that she is meeting him and that she hadn't been in contact with him for months." I feel very sorry for you trusting her so easily and hiding your head in the sand. But you will never build a healthy bond if one person is lying and another one understands this down his mind but suppressing these gut cravings for the truth and sanity.

[This message edited by wordsofwisdom at 9:13 AM, September 4th (Tuesday)]

Good luck. I hope that this is true or at least that it is over even if all of this is not true. As wordsofwisodm pointed out she did lie to you in the beginning about being in contact with him so that is still out there.

Have you asked her to be No Contact with this man from now on and has she agreed? They really cannot be friends and since they don't work together there is no reason for them to stay in touch. She has to agree to that I believe.

RH,

You are making progress, but, if it was me and I was going to invest in making the M work, I would still demand a polygraph. I don't know about you but I would want to erase any doubts from my mind about the truthfulness of your WS.

Just my opinion, because there will always be that "what if" running through your mind in the future. A polygraph is small price to pay IMO for a M moving forward.

Her story may be true but then I'd be wondering, if she did nothing wrong, then why lie to you about it and only come clean after you've confronted her with evidence? If you had no evidence she would have stuck to the lie. If it was all as innocent as she said, why lie?

As others have said, you know your W and the situation better than any of us - our judgements are based on the story we are told.

Please do remain vigilant for a little while, if for no other reason than to reassure yourself. I would have described my W as someone with high integrity and it's a major reason why I missed a one year A that had red flags flying all over the place.

And even if this was caught at an early stage, it had strayed into very dangerous territory and NC is essential. Don't let that slide.

And most importantly, good luck with your recovery and with rebuilding your relationship. Look after yourself.

now this is the part I have to explain my wife. I know her for 13 years, she is one of those girls that are very innocent, rarely does big mistakes out of an impulse. she is very careful, conservative and I always struggle with her to do things our of her comfort level. she has very strong principles and values. that is probably one of the things that help me believe a lot of what happening.

This was my fWW also, to a T. And yet my conservative patty-perfect fWW engaged in a very steamy, X-rated physical affair with another patty-perfect leader from our church.

If you came up to me and asked me four years ago if my fWW would have ever cheated on me I would have laughed in your face.

The fact is none of us knew what our wayward spouses were capable of. I believe your WW is still lying and stonewalling you, and R will not work while that is continuing. But good luck anyway. I hope it works out for you.

What LWP said is spot-on, you're not dealing with the wife you knew or thought you knew before, you're dealing with someone entirely different.

This is what BS struggle with the most, coming to the realization that their WS is the polar opposite of who they thought they were.

Don't base your findings on feelings and emotions, base them on concrete facts.

[This message edited by mantorok at 11:02 AM, September 4th (Tuesday)]

her gmail account, and simulated the email and indeed a mistake like that can easily happen. when she writes the first letter of my email his email appears.

It seems that you have settled into a decision and many here will support you and hope that it works out. We wish for the best but also have seen a lot of skullduggery. From the outside it seems there a few loose ends that don't quite add up but you know her better than we do.

Not everyone knows this but gmail keeps almost everything even if you think it was trashed, it is still in a couple more places.

So if you want to keep looking you go to her email account which should be a-ok with her if there's nothing to hide.

On the far left side scroll past inbox-sent-trash all the way to "all mail" this is where gmail stashes a lot of stuff that you think is gone. If you want, you can do a search for their gmails.

Look for the email with the tickets, if the body of the letter is to you that's great. If the email is to him sharing plans there's a problem.

If you haven’t told your wife right away that you want to R, don’t. I committed to R way to soon and it didn’t give my wife a chance to imagine what life would be like without me. And that slowed down R. Don’t believe what she says either, I believed right away that she only had EA s and it made it that much more painful when I found out she lied and she’d had a previous PA. I think if we do D it’ll be because of the lies on DD#1 and not the affairs by themselves. Cheaters lie and lie some more, so stay vigilant in your search, if you find nothing else you can confirm that she is telling the truth if you find something else you can protect yourself. Good luck, stay safe and you didn’t deserve this.

[This message edited by Gunnut at 3:43 PM, September 4th (Tuesday)]

How did the Dr Fone software work? Were you able to retrieve complete messages or just fragments?