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I think the only thing my cheater regrets is getting caught.

He certainly never regretted his A with his cousin/AP in the 7+ years he was still in contact with her before I found out.

How big can their regret be if the only reason they stopped is bc they got caught?

I have no doubt WH hugely enjoyed each one...I believe he was on top of the world...

He thought I wouldn't find out, and if I did, I couldn't leave...I was trapped...

THings I have learned that influence this type thinking for WH...HE is alcoholic, he is NPD , he has brain damage and he lies chronically, also ,because of hormone treatments, he is a sex addict wanna be...there is no regret...he is in full swing. He is comorbid.

It hurt me each and every time, a new issue came to light...theses are so hopeless..

It has helped me to not blame myself...or feel like I wasn't enough...It was not me. He is spiraling down...and I am climbing up.

[This message edited by cancuncrushed at 5:37 PM, September 19th (Wednesday)]

GoldenR, once again hits the nail on the fuckin head. How on EARTH can one have the UNMITIGATED GALL to claim they now feel remorse if the ONLY reason they aren't STILL doing the exact same shit is that they got caught.

Oh, facing consequences and potentially LOSING something and facing consequences as a result of the pure JOY you've been experiencing made you change your ways? Wow, how fucking remorseful you must be.

Now, if we had a magic wand that allowed us to know that - coincidentally - they'd have confessed on or about D-Day, then I'll hear them out. Otherwise GTFO with that argument.

Bottom line, remorse is NOT even theoretically possible if things would still be going on but-for being caught.

Ok. So let's go there:

1. My spouse kept her 4xaffairs from me.

2. For 30+ years

3. I knew there was something....

4. The answers to my questions were always -

no, don't be silly,

he is just a friend,

I need somebody to talk to,

he is going through a bad time in his marriage,

it's just harmless fun, etc...

For 30 years there were no consequences.

they don't regret it

they regret the consequences

if it was with out any consequences they don't give a fuck

So there were NO consequences.

Until DDay

(actually until after HB )

And then Consequences set in.

And then came the regret.

Regret ...

that she caved in to my question and told me

that I knew all about them, the 4xOM

that I had figured out the 'where, when & what' they did

that I was hurting

that I knew she instigated

that IT would always hurt me

that I could change towards her

that I would see her through a different set of eyes.

So now you know how it works.

And I'm not generalizing.

My wayward wife said she was entitled to her affair (adultery) as I am the only man she had been with previously.

If you are entitled you do not feel regret or remorse. You act in your own best interest. She regrets the loss of lifestyle and facing consequences of her actions.

I have heard her wailings and crying but it was for her loss. Nothing more.

Reconciliation: about you

I know I’m jumping in to very dangerous waters here, but...

May I rephrase this please?

Desire for Reconciliation: about you

There is no R without the BS. And the choice is always with the BS. An A is a dealbreaker. The BS gets to determine if he or she wants to R or not.

But is there anything wrong with a WS wanting to R? Of course it’s not about what a WS wants, but does that mean it’s wrong of us to want it? And of course it’s selfish. Here’s a sincere question - would a BS prefer if their WS said to heck with you, I don’t want you or our M or our family so goodbye and good luck? Is that true? Because that’s not what I’ve seen here. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone say that after they caught their WS they wished their WS would have said I hate you, I hate my life, I hate our family, so to hell with you, I’m leaving instead of showing regret and ultimately remorse.

Anyway, I know that after I was caught I was all about self preservation. It was only about me and it took a long time before I really truly honestly thought about my BH from his POV. But there came a point when R wasn’t all about me and it was something he wanted to. I guess that’s my poorly worded point. It’s all selfishness after we’re caught. But R is a two person thing, and just because the original motivation might have been a selfish one doesn’t mean it’s a necessarily bad thing.

I’m going to hide in the corner now.

Mrs W -

I think everyone here knows that you're pretty much the exception to almost every generalization made about WSes.

But idk if you're right about if it's better if the WS wants to R. If my XWW had expressed a desire to R (which, according to her she really wanted to, but she didn't want to eat crow), it probably would've made my escape from her a living hell.

I guess it just depends on the individual circumstances.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 11:59 PM, September 20th (Thursday)]

If there was no chance of ever getting caught. If there was no way the BS would ever find out. If the A would never see the light of day. And they stopped the affair on their own, out of pure guilt. And the WS confesses, completely on their own. With nothing to gain, and everything to lose. Driven only by their own conscience.

I would see that as true regret.

Otherwise it would seem any form of regret would be shaded by the consequences.

I also wonder if some BS, that do not want to leave the marriage, will accept any form of regret as genuine.

I think everyone here knows that you're pretty much the exception to almost every generalization made about WSes.

I don’t want to thread jack, but I don’t think that’s fair.

I cheated on my husband for 5 months (EA, which turned into a PA). It wasn’t a ONS. It was a full blown A and I acted in a way that kills me to think about and I did things with another man that I will forever be ashamed of. I focused on what I wanted. I was selfish. I betrayed my husband, my children, and my family. I destroyed my integrity, my husband’s trust in me, and damaged so many lives. I did not confess my A, I was caught. I lied about it, minimized it, and then broke NC.

I am NOT an exception. I am just like every Wayward here.

I know you meant it kindly, but I’ve worked hard at coming to grips with what I’ve done and who I am.

Sorry, but ownership is kind of a big thing for me.

And I’m really sorry for the thread jack.

All good, Mrs W.

What I was trying to say was that "you get it". And your last post pretty much showed that.

Mrs W.

ownership is kind of a big thing for me.

You "get it", but my (F)WS does not.

To my WS - If you really regret your A's then try to understand what I am going through, because:

Right now I hurt, even though it happened 30 years ago.

Right now don't pick a fight with me because my fuse is short.

Right now help me by moving that stone I am going to trip over, or at least warn me about it.

Right now don't keep telling me that it happened a long time ago.

Right now show me you care about my feelings.

[WS here]

Since the details of my infidelity were aired, I have read so many articles about regret versus remorse. From what I can gather and summarize, regret is "me" focused and remorse is BS focused. Your question is thought provoking because now I'm thinking (not to t/j) if it's possible to feel both as a WS? As the other WS posts here indicate, the WS (whether believed or not) do feel a deep sense of shame within themselves once their "whys" are uncovered. But can't a WS also feel remorseful for the shame, hurt, pain, embarrassment, hopelessness they brought upon the BS. Now, I inflicted that on my BS, so seeing/knowing that BS goes through that will always, for me, outweigh what I feel. Even though I do feel regret within myself, it is more so the remorse that drives my day-to-day actions to help BS recover and also the need to better myself.

For me, it was a 3 month EA turned ONS that I confessed to pretty much immediately. It was my choice to ruin the M, but if we are to continue to stay together, he deserved to know the truth. As MrsW kind of touched upon, a WS is a WS. I acted selfishly, disregarded my BS and the consequences during the infidelity, so how I did that, whether it was EA, PA, ONS, etc. for whatever duration, it was a betrayal to BS. It is BS that has to live and deal with the consequences of something he DID NOT choose, and how much regret/remorse, if at all, plays into his decision making is his choice now.

[This message edited by destroyedwayward at 6:48 AM, September 21st (Friday)]

How big can their regret be if the only reason they stopped is bc they got caught?

Not every WS here got caught. Some, like myself stopped it on their own.

There are many people BS and WS and just normal everyday people that have never even had infidelity touch their lives that have acted like a dog with a bone. Take things for granted till a wrench is thrown into the mix (maybe a near death experience or someone dying) then begins to see the error of their ways (gluttony of life itself) and chooses to change and appreciate the gift they have. IMO there are very few people out there that have never regretted or had remorse for some choices they have made in life. If you can have remorse for being an asshole to a parent or friend? Why the fuck wouldn't a wayward spouse have remorse for fucking over their spouse and the mother of their children?

I think everyone here knows that you're pretty much the exception to almost every generalization made about WSes.

IMO every WS here that takes the time to come here and figure things out is an exception to the norm. Some figure it out and some don't. Some take longer and some don't. IMO there seems to be more BS that come on here and they have the WS that are the exception to the norm. They have the WS that just said fuck it and didn't even try. They had the WS that made their lives a living hell or left with their APs. Though since there seems to be a great number of them, maybe they are the majority. Still, the WS here are not exceptions. There are plenty out there that probably never posted and still Reconcile themselves and their marriages.

Golden, I would remind you that Mrs. W got caught and her A only stopped because of that. Also, one of the early hurdles was that her nearly instant response to being caught was a long telephone call with the AP. The Walloped marriage teetered on the brink for some time. In hindsight, we forget some of those harrowing details because, as you note, Mrs. W very quickly "got it" almost instinctively, to a significantly higher degree than many WS's we see here. But keep in mind that SI is just the tip of the infidelity iceberg. There are almost certainly countless couples dealing with infidelity in various ways, from quick divorce to years of acrimony and rug-sweeping. It is likely that there are plenty of examples of couples out there in the world who successfully R because the WS gets it, like Mrs. W did.

As to the semi-thread jack, I do think it's not just possible but quite likely that a WS who comes to a place of remorse also feels regret. In fact, I would expect that is more common than not. After all, a WS is human and has feelings about his/her personal circumstances, even if he/she also has empathy and feelings for his/her BS. And I would reckon that a WS who is remorseful, who is doing the work, who sees his/her spouse struggle with trauma and self-loathing and sexual dysfunction and depression, I would reckon that WS is not particularly happy to find him/herself in a marriage in that state, especially one of his/her own creation. It is a special kind of Hell to be in a bad place of one's own creation.

Back to the original post, the thing I've wondered is whether there are WS's who, after the "dust settles" and they are back in a functional marriage, ever look back and have a twinge of wistful longing, or perhaps a butterfly of happy thrill, remembering a particularly sensual encounter in a hot tub, for example, or a funny instance of getting caught doing it in public. Something that, without context, would normally be a happy memory.

It's probably the case that a wise WS, even if she/he had this sort of memory, would not mention it to the BS. Or at least I would expect that to be so. But it strikes me that this must sometimes occur. I myself have the occasional happy flashback to an especially hot tryst from my single years -- a warm spring day on campus, dorm room curtains ruffling in the breeze through the open window, sounds of friends in the courtyard below, a 19-year old GF atop me in 69.... I think this must be the case for most people who had any substantial sexual history prior to their marriage.

I'd be curious to know if there are any WS's who are (a) honest enough with themselves to acknowledge when they have these memories, and (b) is there any example of a WS sharing this with a BS? After all, if the rule is "100% naked transparency", then this would be something to be shared.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 10:01 AM, September 21st (Friday)]

Golden, I would remind you that Mrs. W got caught and her A only stopped because of that. Also, one of the early hurdles was that her nearly instant response to being caught was a long telephone call with the AP. The Walloped marriage teetered on the brink for some time. In hindsight, we forget some of those harrowing details because, as you note, Mrs. W very quickly "got it" almost instinctively, to a significantly higher degree than many WS's we see here.

I'm very well aware of all that. I actually took her to task about some of that in her early days here. Just ask her, she didn't like me very much back then.

In addition to her "getting it", what I also meant regarding the "exception" thing was really about how she was caught, and she did pretty much EVERYTHING right after a week or so. She has found remorse in abundance.

In reply to Zug:

Why not the BS when it can apply to parents, friends, etc? Surely it can apply to the BS, I just think it rarely truly gets achieved. Also, big difference comparing ANYONE to a spouse. Spousal betrayal is worse than anything else. You don't take vows with anyone else. Your spouse should come before parents, siblings, friends, extended family, pretty much everyone except young children.

As far as all WSes that post here being the exception...of the regulars that post here, there are a very good number of them that get it. There are others that post here to:

- make themselves feel better

- make their BS feel better

- put on an act for their BS

There are several WSes that are simply not here for the right reason. Not only have they not reached remorse (which is common in the early days/months), they're not even attempting to reach remorse.

Sunny, I'm not sure what you wanted his thread to evoke in the way of responses. If you're getting what you want, great. If not, come back and ask your question in a different way.

I suspect something about R is behind the question, so I'll address that.

As far as I can see, it's the consequences that cause regret for all of us, so if the consequences were painful for a WS, the WS probably regrets the A.

I think that what the WS does with the regret determines the WS's suitability for R.

My W came to regret getting into and staying in her A. Her self-imposed consequences included resolving to confess if I asked a right question, giving up her career, coming clean, facing herself, and resolving her core issues. Just resolving to do those things took a lot of courage and effort. She followed through, which took more effort and courage.

She regrets her A, accepted/is accepting the consequences, and is changing from cheater to good partner. That made/makes her a good candidate for R. A WS who doesn't act to change herself from cheater to good partner is not a good candidate for R, at least IMO.

I'd be curious to know if there are any WS's who are (a) honest enough with themselves to acknowledge when they have these memories, and (b) is there any example of a WS sharing this with a BS? After all, if the rule is "100% naked transparency", then this would be something to be shared.

I think that anyone with a sexual past has memories of that past. I remember my sexual encounters and partners that occurred throughout my life, up to and including the AP. I am certain that my H remembers his sexual encounters from his past as well. By tacit agreement, we don't typically discuss them. Neither of us really wants to hear about the other's past (and my H did and does not want details of the A). If the rule was 100% transparency with regards to this I would tell him if and when those thoughts came up. Since he does not want any details, I respect his wishes and only share what he wants to know. If this ever changes, I know that I will tell him anything he wants to learn.

I regret my affairs and would do anything to delete this from my my history. I hurt my wife. I hurt my family. Cheating is/was selfish. I didn't quite get that when I did it. I get it now. I'm attending IC and SA sessions to prove to myself that I'm worthy of her someday. It's likely too late, but even if she leaves me, I know that I have to change and will continue to heal.

FWIW, not all cheaters are the same.

I don’t think I’ve seen anyone say that after they caught their WS they wished their WS would have said I hate you, I hate my life, I hate our family, so to hell with you, I’m leaving instead of showing regret and ultimately remorse.

In hindsight, I do. It would have been a hell of a lot better than the years of lying that followed.

Anyway, I know that after I was caught I was all about self preservation.

@MrsW, I guess that's the rub isn't it. It's always about self-preservation. How can a BS know that your motivations to reconcile are any different than the motivations to cheat, or to cover up for the cheating? Truthfully, I don't think that they are. The ONLY exception that I can think of is a spouse that admits to an affair that might not have been found out. Otherwise, using your affair as an example, would it still be going on today without the fortuitous timing of your BH's brother? Did you grow, or did you just get caught? Was this new "reconciliation mask" your only way to keep your life intact?

Sorry to be personal, and I have mentioned this to you before where you wrote off what I said as a cynical way to look at the life. Maybe you're right, but the hopeful and naive XHZ700 almost disappeared when my XWW had her affair, and the XHZ700 that is here typing now killed him dead when he found out that the behavior never stopped.