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What I don't get is how they just drop the AP and want to work on the horrible marriage at that point. Suddenly they want to stay with the person they couldn't stand before and talked ugly about to the AP. Suddenly they love the BS and can't stand the AP even though the BS finds the texts and emails of the love declarations. They say they didn't really love them they just said stuff to keep it going. Hmmmm. So if they do that to the AP then why would the BS believe it was genuine to them?

She was the most beautiful woman in the world to him- his dream girl. All right. Go be with her. Oh, no. I was never gonna leave. I don't want her. You don't want your dream girl? You don't want to be with the most beautiful woman in the world? You risked everything to be with her. So, why not be with her?

I don't get it. How can they really regret what they risked everything for? And kept risking everything for...

You are right, this makes no real sense.

For me, if I am honest, I would say it's because we deep down know the better choice is the BS and that the affair is built on a foundation of nothing. Under all the fantasy and stupidity occurring, we still have that layer inside ourselves that doesn't lie to ourselves.

What we kept risking everything for wasn't the AP though - it was our self. We weren't being selfless with the AP and selfish with you, we were being selfish with both. It was about our own needs, wants, desires. We are risking everything for our own gratification - we are using every one.

Even the fantasy isn't even generally about the AP - it's about how we feel. We get to believe we are better, sexier, more evolved versions of ourselves because we can be whoever we want. I wanted to play act as a vibrant 25 year old woman - not for AP but because that's how I wanted to feel.

When it all comes crashing down, because it always does...the cheater looks around and knows they are about to lose the one thing good they really ever had. And honestly early out from DDAY we cling to that like a life raft. It's still not about you or the AP...it's still about us.

I knew my husband was the better man. How could I not? I watched him over the years faithfully taking care of our family, of me. He was every security I had. A WS, especially one that's fresh off dday is probably the most insecure human on the planet. Of course we aren't going anywhere.

BUT - and there's where the big but comes in...you either recognize you don't deserve this person or you keep up your entitlements and just do what you need to do. I honestly think that's the beginning of change or no change for the WS. Unfortunately, the thing that gets us on the road is the same selfishness that had us in an affair.

[This message edited by hikingout at 9:50 AM, September 5th (Wednesday)]

Unfortunately, the thing that gets us on the road is the same selfishness that had us in an affair.

So true. It isn't fair. It is the reality though. We choose to stay because we know where the value is. If a BS can stomach that and let that be enough. Again saying it isn't fair and there certainly is no justice in it for the betrayed, then down the road when a WS does work on themselves and does change as they get to remorse then there is the love that was there for the BS to begin with. A love for who the person is. Not for what she can give us.

No I don't believe he does. I think the only thing he regrets is getting caught. My head was in the sand so long he got sloppy and it blew up in his face.

I see zero regret or remorse.

FF

I so carelessly pissed on it all for a lie/an illusion.

That might be the crux of your problem. You are still holding on that you fucked everything up for a lie/fantasy/illusion. That just isn't true. You fucked everything up to feed a want. If you focus on the story and not the want it will never really come to face you. You gave it all up for you. Not a fantasy. I think all cheaters know it was a instant gratification, it isn't going to last,and that if push came to shove and you did real life with that AP it was never going to work. We just didn't care. Saying you gave it up for a fantasy is like saying the AP tricked you into it. It doesn't matter if it was real or a fantasy. It was just wrong to feed your selfish wants at the expense of the people around. Real or not real. Saying you gave everything up for a fantasy makes it seem like it all would have been okay and worth it if it worked out and wasn't a fantasy. It was real at the time and the AP just let you sit in your shit and didn't hold you accountable like a person who really cared about you would.

Hikingout,

Your wisdom and insight is always so thoughtout, articulate and helpful.

I too struggled with how "for 8 months, I was a monster who didn't love my WW and then on DDAY, I became the greatest thing since sliced bread". I was vilified in the worst ways, yet "I've always been a great husband, I"m the one she's always wanted and needed, blah, blah, blah".

You've helped reinforce what my WW has said and allowed me to better understand it wasn't about "him" or "me" but the selfishness and brokenness. She's empathically stated it was all about how he made her feel, not him. She felt pretty, validated, wanted, desired. If not him, someone else. You've helped me understand that deep down, I was still in her heart buried, deeply and she totally took me for granted.

Zug

I so carelessly pissed on it all for a lie/an illusion.

You are still holding on that you fucked everything up for a lie/fantasy/illusion.That just isn't true.

You fucked everything up to feed a want.

I probably should have quantified my statement a bit. Of course it was to fulfill a selfish want/need of mine. Essentially most everything people do is driven by a want/need. Most healthy people manage to look outside their own sphere so they're not solely focused on themselves. WS obviously lack that trait and I'm certainly no exception to that.

I was merely pointing own that I risked so much for what essentially amounted to a pot of fools gold. I thought so little about what was really important and meaningful in my life for nothing. I was willing to lose everything to get what I wanted and never stopped to consider what I was doing.

When it all comes crashing down, because it always does...the cheater looks around and knows they are about to lose the one thing good they really ever had. And honestly early out from DDAY we cling to that like a life raft. It's still not about you or the AP...it's still about us.

@hikingout is on point as usual, and part of what I would assume is about 5% of waywards that actually get it.

Affair: about you

Lying: about you

Trickle-truth: about you

Gaslighting: about you

Reconciliation: about you

You have an affair to maximize your life, you want to stay with your safety net to maximize your life. There isn't really any more thought that needs to go into it.

In the aftermath of DDay, I am not sure how much regret there was. Certainly plenty of snot nosed crying, but an equal amount of trying to convince me that he meant nothing and that our long term marriage is what she wanted. Not him that whole thinking infuriated me.

Now in the rear view mirror, it is the biggest regret of her life. Unlike some others here, we had a pretty good marriage. So she went from that to what she has now. Fifteen or twenty pounds heavier due to probably a mild form of depression. The loss of most of her friends. Being asked out by guys over 70 while knowing I have much younger women looking at me.

The biggest is the loss of family. We are the family that we said we would never be. At our daughters wedding with separate tables Holidays and birthdays that get negotiated and divided up. It is just so sad. We came so far together. It’s like running a marathon and falling 100 yards from the finish line.

So regrets now. You bet. All of this for what she said was nothing

WH never regretted anything..he had fond memories...he never admitted anything...he continued cheating, with breaks In between…

I can honestly say, if he could cheat, with no consequences, he would be a whore..

He hated the fighting...he hated the damage...he hated having to be more transparent....mostly he lied, to avoid all conflict...He knew he would repeat...

All of this for what she said was nothing

Yup. That's what my fWW says too. What a waste. Escape from stress and responsibility -- to worse stress and greater responsibility.

One, I think that is pretty much a standard line for any WS who wants their life and their marriage back to the way it was. Who in desperation on DDay says I love them if they want to survive the day?

Honestly, I don’t think he meant that much too her. He wasn’t smart, and certainly not a replacement for me. But he meant a lot as an escape from feeling her life was passing her by. As stupid as he was, he did have the skills like a con man to know exactly what to say to get her to act on those feelings

I guess I can add to her regret that she was fleeced like a sucker at the traveling circus.

I think my ex would like to think he regrets it. He likes to look like a good guy in his own eyes. I think he never regretted it at all, and it was a great ego boost for him. He says he regrets it, but I believe nothing he says.

I think it varies but in my case: No, I don't think my WW regrets the A itself. Like someone else said (I don't think they couldn't have hit the bullseye any better) she regrets the consequences and that I'm upset. When I just shut-up, she's perfectly fine.

Lmfao. No. Why would they regret something they enjoyed?

H does. 100%. Now.

But it's been 6 years and in that time a lot has happened to us all and I have been there for him

and the children every step of the way. He truly values me now and loves me more than he ever has. The affair is NOW the biggest regret of his life and he suffers genuine remorse.

I would say that he is better man now and our marriage is far stronger and gentler on us both.

But boy it's taken its toll on me. I am wrung out and emotionally exhausted. I never got much time to heal between one crisis and another. I am wondering when I get to have my time.

My wife are heading toward 4 years of reconciliation before then I was in a 7 month long trickle-truth soaked cover my ass mindset. The question if I regret my As. Yes, I regret my As. The question may be why do I regret my A. I can give you a list:

I wake up everyday next to a woman I love and I can still see pain in her eyes and how she acts.

I see my kids every day and even though our relationships are better I know what I put them through.

Each time I interact with a woman at work, I have to analyse how I am acting, and how I am speaking, and make sure that my boundaries are firm and and in place.

Each time a friend reaches out for help, I have to look at my motives to make sure that I am not trying to save them.

I walk through life each and every day with the thoughts in my mind of what I put my family through, especially my wife, and still have to continually look at how I am acting to make sure that I keep my selfishness in check.

I know that there are times that my wife triggers, and I know that I am the reason for this happening.

Everyone of my actions, and reactions are put under a microscope by both myself and to some extent the members of my family. They know what a selfish, self-centered SOB that I was, and can still be if I don't keep working on myself.

I believe that only a small percentage of waywards get to this point where they can reconcile. There are many reasons. Some may be Sociopaths, or NPD. Others may have other personality disorders that block them from the needed traits to enter recovery. Some are simply just too selfish and self-centered to own their decisions for their affairs to do the work on themselves.

I live in an uncomfortable dichotomy of being a wayward in recovery. The lack of comfort is that I believe that I have it within me to go back to actions and attitudes which caused my cheating, and that I have to continually observe my actions, reactions, emotions, and make adjustments to live in a way opposite to them.

Its very hard to explain, so I put it in terms of 12 step programs. 12 step programs teach that once an addict, always an addict. Yet addicts can recover and live happy functional lives as non-addicts, but in order to do so they must continue to do the things that the program tells them they have to do.

Anyhow... those are my opinions and we all know about opinions... everyone has them.

I think a lot of them that got to keep their marriage don't regret it bc they had their fun and got away with it. They lost nothing.

GoldenR says:

I think a lot of them that got to keep their marriage don't regret it bc they had their fun and got away with it. They lost nothing.

I agree. This is a concept that I struggle with. I've only ever married one person, but have had some really awesome sexual encounters with other women before I got into a relationship with the woman who I ultimately married.

Just because I later got married to someone else does NOT mean that those memories all have to be colored with shame and regret (I wasn't married or in a relationship at the time!). Shit, anything that was great fun at the time, whether it is sex, an athletic achievement, a great party, etc.; just by virtue of later marrying someone else, do those have to be shameful memories?

If the sex was so great, or if the true story-book "love" was really there to the extent that it was worth risking EVERYTHING, why do those memories suddenly become so horrible? As another poster wrote on this topic, you can "regret" losing money on gambling while still acknowledging how much mind-blowing fun you had while in Las Vegas.

Great sex (or "lurve") that is so amazing that it was worth risking everything for ... I simply can't believe that there is NEVER an instance of fantasizing or looking back on it fondly. Shit, I'm sure most WS'es, even remorseful ones, sometimes think about it while having "maintenance sex" with their BS.

This topic just made me think of Cameron from Ferris Bueller's Day Off ... he might regret the consequences he had to face due to what happened to his daddy's car, but that amazing day and everything he experienced will never be forgotten for as long as he lives.

[This message edited by SilverLinings55 at 11:19 AM, October 10th (Wednesday)]

I can tell you from my own experience that not a single second goes by that I don’t feel the greatest regret and remorse for what I did.

I think sometimes hope that things can be saved is interpreted as a lack of remorse or a lack of understand the consequences of these actions.

I know that, for me, the regret and remorse are crushing. They are suffocating. It can be hard to look in the mirror and live with yourself. Sometimes I keep going knowing that is the only way I can try to make it right for her.

My wife says that if she could take it back she would in a heart beat, and I believe her.

She says that even when she was in the affair she knew she was creating the image of who she wanted her AP to be. That he wasn't really that, but rather just a canvas of sorts that she painted her picture on. She says that she fell for the picture... and she knew it. She knew it was an illusion, but couldn't let go because of the addiction of feeling special.

She says she didn't think I would ever find out, and because of that, I would never get hurt. Boy was she wrong...

I am 19 months out, almost 20 months, from D-Day, and I still hurt. Not the pain like it was after D-day, but it's there.

Her affair is still in my brain, mulling about, oozing out of my brain, through my soul, and into my consciousness like play dough being squeezed through a little kids hands...

It's always there....

But I believe that she will never do this again, and I believe that she lives with guilt, shame, regret, remorse, and embarrassment. I can't imagine what that's like. Knowing that you hurt someone else like that.

Sunny69 - The question at hand is... Do you believe him?

This answer will probably change over time. I know I swung from not believing my wife and back all in the same day. It's getting better with time.

At 20 months out, I mostly believe her. It's only when I get "dark" thinking about the time she was involved in her affair that I go back to "being sure" that she is lying to me.

WS seems truly remorseful and thanks me every day for giving us a chance.

This is a good thing.

I hate how he has memories of this relationship within our timeline. How do you ever really get over that to lead a fulfilling relationship.

Share that with him... tell him how much it hurts you. Make sure he knows it.

Read, read and then read some more.

But in the end, you are the one who has to live with your decisions IRL... so, take your time.

Think about what life would be without him.

Think about what life would be with him.

Think about what you need and want from him. (Then share that)

Watch what he does, Listen to his words...Make sure the two match.

All of that will help you come to the decision about if he regrets his choices.