SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I don't know if my wife's AP had ED problems but he is much shorter, balder, fatter, and uglier than me and has no apparent muscles. He is nothing like me physically. I cannot believe my wife found him attractive.

I would love for that little bastard to come after me.

[This message edited by SweetCreamPie at 3:41 PM, October 2nd (Tuesday)]

SCP -

Most of the WWs here are in R and are very remorseful. Many have their BHes here as well, others of them whose BHes aren't here still read their posts. Even the ones who have admitted it was good, do you really think they want to keep posting about it?

I don't think the sex is ever necessarily better than with their H. But I do think they enjoy it.

There was one WW who said sex with AP was amazing. This woman fought so hard to save her marriage. Her heart was totally can't completely for her husband. She saved her marriage. I admired her a great deal. I learned from her that sex means nothing compared to the love she had for BH. True remorse. Her mind was toward her husband, AP.

WWa

Is it true that many of you have your BSs on this site ? Do they read your posts ?

*********

I am not surprised sex is good for many WS but most of them on this site said it was not amazing nor better than with their BHs.

[This message edited by SweetCreamPie at 3:59 PM, October 2nd (Tuesday)]

I’m not calling any of the WWs here liars. I’m not necessarily calling my WW a liar either. But they can’t all have had affairs with fat, ugly guys who couldn’t keep an erection and who didn’t know what they were doing.

Yeah, and, unfortunately, it's kind of just the "code" that we all live by. Listen, there are male AP's out there with huge "equipment" who are very skilled with it and are "better" in bed than I am. As I type this, I get the "pit of the stomach" feel, but I know there are AP's out there who could make my wife orgasm more/harder/better in bed than I can. Was that her AP? I don't think I'll ever know, but, like you said, at least SOME women have slept with APs who were "sex gods". In fact, I think it's rather likely that, especially serial male AP's, they get pretty good at it from experience; figuring out what women like/want quickly and providing it. Yes, this whole thing makes me sick, like "cold sweat" kind of sick, because, even though I know it's true, man, does it kick me in the gut to think about it.

The only thing that I can say is that in my experience in threads like this, in general, men care about this a lot more than women do. Yes, there are some women who get hung up on how tight the AP was, but, in general, it's other things for female BS's. A lot of men hang up on this and, my hypothesis on it is this; we hang up on it because it's so important to us. Sex, in general, has a lot of importance to at least many (most, IMHO) men, and the thought of a "better" sexual partner is very seductive to us because it's so important, at least to me. So, we project the importance of "great sex" onto our wives when they have an A, when, in fact, for the majority of women here, they all say that "it just wasn't that important", and wasn't the primary reason for the A.

Let's use an example. Let's say your a huge foodie. You absolutely love eating lots of different and exotic foods. And then you go out and have an A with a professional chef who could cook up awesome meals; far better than you wife ever cooked. Well, to your wife, this would be a huge problem, because she knows how "into food" you are, and what a big deal it is for you. The way to your heart is through your stomach, and she would know, in that situation, she's not going to compete with a professional chef.

Well, I think a lot of BH's (myself included) do the same thing with our WW's. The way to my heart, as crass as this sounds, is through my d**k. A woman who's better in bed than my W is going to be very alluring to me because it's so important to me. And I project this onto her, unfairly, and think that it also must be equally important to her.

The thing is, she doesn't really like food that much. She couldn't tell the difference between a ribeye and a filet. So great, he was a chef, what difference does it make, you don't really like food that much anyway. Can he cook better than me? Yes, I'm sure he can, but that's not the way to her heart, and it's just not something that she really cares about in a partner. It's a "nice to have" not a "primary decision point" like it is for me.

Not sure that any of this helps, but this is the way I see it.

I have a couple of thoughts:

What matters is that your wife had an affair. The details you are getting worked up over, would piss you off regardless of the answers.

If your wife told you he was tiny, you'd be thinking that your technique must be bad because he can do the same with less. If he was hung, you must be too small.

If it was better then again you are no good at it. If it sucked, then what the hell is wrong with you that you wife goes out looking for shitty sex.

Your post would have been made, regardless of your wife's answers.

Here's the hardest thing we, as betrayed spouses have to deal with. The affair is not about us and usually not because of us. We may play a role, in a poor marriage, if we are inattentive, assholes, or whatever (its still 100% their fault).

Now, in your particular case, it doesn't seem like there were any poor marriage issues or even character flaws on your part. You seem like a great guy and I think half the guys here would like to be your friend and go fishing with you.

Its all about a character flaw in your wife that made her want more: excitement, attention and affection. The brain releases chemicals from this "new" interaction, and its like falling in love again. That is the one thing your wife can not do, "fall in love with you again" because it already happened years ago. This is why its different.

Sounds ridiculous, but that's it in a nutshell. then once it starts, it becomes like an addiction.

It takes a long time to recover, whether you reconcile or divorce. Good Luck with whatever decision you eventually make.

I think Anoldlion hit it on the head: if you return repeatedly to do a thing over and over (unless you're being forced), you enjoy that thing.

We know that waywards normally try to minimize the "waywardness" of their behavior. As Rideitout notes, most of the WW's who post here on SI regularly are remorseful and trying to R (and as somebody noted, in some cases their BH's are on here also and/or may be reading their posts). In hindsight, and in light of the desire to R, they generally regret having engaged in the A and their emotional memory naturally is not fond of what they did.

Some of the WW's here had affairs that occurred when their marriage circumstances were really awful, to the point where the A was sort of a lifeline to sanity in an otherwise insane life. Their memories of the A will be generally unhappy ones. They tend to downplay the importance of the sexual component of their A despite the fact that, instead of choosing a close girlfriend to confide in about the problems in their M, or even a close male friend, they chose to take a lover out of all of the other choices that could have been made.

There have been a few WW's on here who have owned the reality that they enjoyed the sex. In particular, WW's who had LTA's where they returned repeatedly for sex, over an extended period. Which is why I think Anoldlion's quote is apt to your circumstance, where your WW returned repeatedly to the AP for sex multiple times per week, for years, and would still be doing it had she not been caught and fired.

Frankly, I think that R has a better chance in those cases where the wayward spouse owns the reality of having taken a lover. The "I was seeking solace and companionship and it was immaterial that he put his private inside my private, notwithstanding the fact that I returned to him repeatedly knowing that he would continue doing so" doesn't hold water in most cases. If one wants only solace and companionship, there are plenty of ways to get that without having sex.

The affair is not about us and usually not because of us.

This is true. I think a better way of saying it is that the affair is in spite of us. A giant flipping of the bird toward the marriage. A secret, one-sided open marriage. We often find out in hindsight that the WW had something broken in her that caused her to engage in the A, but explaining a thing is not the same as excusing it. There are ways of addressing marital issues without sleeping with somebody else.

In the end, whether you R or not is an ephemeral matter of the heart. Who knows why R works sometimes, or not? Can your heart believe that you are not her sexual Plan B? She has to convince you of that.

As Rideitout notes, for betrayed me, the sex is a big deal. SI is filled with threads of husbands who cannot get erections around their WW's, or who lose erection mid-sex, because thinking of her having sex with the other man intrudes. This can continue to be the case for years.

In your case, that means explaining how you are not her Plan B even though she would still be seeing her lover had she not been caught. It will be interesting to hear what she has to say about that. Be careful, because she has been lying to you (either directly or by omission/concealment) for years. Her default position is to lie to you about the A. It's important to get to the truth if you are actually considering R.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 4:50 PM, October 2nd (Tuesday)]

There seems to be differing perspectives on women's sexual experiences while they are cheating.

Golden, ride and grace all seem to have differing opinions than the women.

I am going to go with the women when addressing the female sexual experience during an affair.

Do any WW actually agree with the positions they take on the female sexual experience during an affair ?

[This message edited by SweetCreamPie at 5:39 PM, October 2nd (Tuesday)]

Can you talk with your wayward wife in a straight forward and honest fashion or is she still in protective mode and would just lie?

Also, if you are going to divorce her why care or are you still deciding what you want?

The breakdown here isn't female vs male. It is WW vs BH. If you dig around, you will find plenty of threads by BW'S who are deeply hurt by thoughts of their WH's sex with their AP. In general, there are more betrayed spouses on SI than wayward spouses. There are just a handful of WH's. The WW's on here are mostly remorseful and trying to R.

Tarheelnurse, I understand where you're coming from.

But after two years of multiple times weekly, I'm pretty sure the AP figured out how to "push the right buttons."

GoldenR, I can’t speak for your past women and all their experiences. 2 years is a long term affair and I would guess some major feelings occurred during that time (making it more than about the sex). I can’t say that sex didn’t have a part to play in her story but that’s not my story and I can only speak to mine. I had 27 years of sex with my husband with one affair that lasted 5 months this year (a handful of meet-ups but the EA was daily). It would honestly be easier if it were “just about the sex”. I wouldn’t have to dig too deep or get to the “whys” if it was just better sex that I desired. I could just tell my husband “hey babe: do this or do it this way” and boom...I’m a happy wife with no desire to A! Puzzle is solved. How I wish it were that easy.

And what does my remorse and desire to R with my H (who is on SI) have anything to do with me saying it wasn’t about the sex and the sex wasn’t better with the AP? I told him this from the beginning and have no reason to lie about that.

Tar Heel

I think Golden is saying WWs with BHs who are also on this site are not credible when they say they sex wasn't good or great because they don't want to hurt the feelings of their husband. I believe you would fall in that category.

Confusion abound. Lol.

Tarheelnurse - I'm referring to the OP's WW's affair. It went for two years. Wasn't talking about myself.

And SCP, she was responding to a different post of mine, not the one you're referring to.

WWs with BHs who are also on this site are not credible when they say they sex wasn't good or great because they don't want to hurt the feelings of their husband

My H is not on here.

Oh, but my AP had ED--even though I repeatedly went back. STILL, it doesn't count. Because GoldenR and others like him find excuse after excuse after excuse to dismiss what the women here say.

It's misogynistic.

It's insulting.

It's wrong.

I warned you, SweetCreamPie. But still you are believing some random angry dude over a bunch of WWs who know what we're talking about. Why? We're actually taking the time out of our own busy lives to talk to you. Why exactly would we do that if we're not motivated by truth????

Such an incredible shame.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 9:00 PM, October 2nd (Tuesday)]

Tar Heel

I think Golden is saying WWs with BHs who are also on this site are not credible when they say they sex wasn't good or great because they don't want to hurt the feelings of their husband. I believe you would fall in that category.

Sweet, I think I got what Golden was saying and no I don’t fall in that category. My husband and I had this conversation way before we found SI. I wouldn’t post something on here that I had not already discussed with him. If the sex was better, I would have told him what was better about the sex. He asked me what sent me to the AP for 5 months and I told him honestly what did. None of it was sexual. How can we R if he doesn’t know what I needed that I felt I wasn’t getting? Why would I tell him the other things I needed but leave the sex out? It doesn’t make sense but I can’t speak for anyone but myself. Besides, Golden has wayward women all figured out

Edited to comment to this reply:

Tarheelnurse - I'm referring to the OP's WW's affair. It went for two years. Wasn't talking about myself.

I see that now. Sometimes reading too many posts overwhelm me. Also, I shouldn’t have been so snarky earlier. I just don’t like being honest and vulnerable in my answers then basically being told I’m lying because I’m in R and don’t want to hurt my H’s feelings or because my H is a member on here.

[This message edited by TarheelNurse at 10:11 PM, October 2nd (Tuesday)]

Why is a goal to find a WW on here to say they had better sex with their AP then their H?

You guys are right. WWs absolutely hate the sex they had with their APs. I mean, why else would they keep doing it over and over and over and over?

Personally,I hate Cheetos. I eat them daily, but by god, they suck.

Tar Heel

I think Golden is saying WWs with BHs who are also on this site are not credible when they say they sex wasn't good or great because they don't want to hurt the feelings of their husband. I believe you would fall in that category.

No...my point was that the reason not as many are participating in this thread is bc for a BH, the sexual details are usually the most painful part of his wife's A for him. With that in mind, the WWs may not want to comment on that subject too much and rehash the painful details. That wouldn't be lieing. It's just not commenting to avoid pain for their H.

And I don't think A sex is the best sex ever for the majority of WWs. But I'll never believe they didn't enjoy it.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 10:34 PM, October 2nd (Tuesday)]

SweetCreamPie

You have to internalize something: Cheaters have zero personal integrity, and will lie to your face about anything and everything. The truth lies in actions, not words. By cheating, they have proved through their actions that they have zero integrity and will brazenly lie to you. The same deceit they demonstrated while cheating will be in play when they go into full firefighting mode AFTER they are busted. They will go to any length and say anything to save their marriage.

Suddenly, they will worship you as their true soulmate, the most able of all men, the best lover in the world, the kindest, most gentlemanly of all men on earth, the only man who can make them orgasm 20 times an hour, etc. etc. The AP is vilified as a predator, lowly POS, short, bald, ugly, with a micro-dick and ED. Basically they will feed you any BS they think will save their marriage.

There is literally a world of great beautiful women out there who never cheat under any circumstances. Go out and meet them and date them instead of relying on a proven liar. You will NEVER regret leaving a cheater. I'm sorry you are in such agony.

Owningit, I don’t doubt the authenticity of your personal subjective journey. The circumstances of your marriage leading up to your A were truly awful. Many people would simply have divorced without hesitation, but I understand that the issues with your children made your personal choices all more or less equally untenable. There have been a few WW threads where my heart truly aches for the terrible hand dealt to them by life, and yours was one.

At the same time, the fact remains that out of the gamut of the possible ways of finding solace, companionship, a listening ear, and/or an emotional safe harbor from your marital difficulties – from confiding to a close girlfriend/confidante, to entering into an EA online with another man, etc. – you chose to take a lover, a human man with whom you had physical extramarital sex. This was your conscious choice, out of all of the other possible choices you could have made. It strains credulity to now suggest that the physical act of sex with that specific man was not at least one element of your decision process. The fact that you felt such profound guilt while engaged in the A underscores this conclusion.

My issue is you externalizing your personal, subjective experience to a set of fact here which, by the description of SCP, are almost diametrically opposite. Here, the marriage was seemingly happy, intact, and functional. Plenty of affection between SCP and his WW. Plenty of healthy, orgasmic sex. Both well employed. No difficult kid issues. Plenty of marital closeness.

Further, the contact between the WW and her AP was limited to lunchtime nooner quickies. No time for deep conversations about marital difficulties, etc. She really did just meet up with him for sex, and there doesn't appear to be any other solace or comfort she was seeking from him. She and her AP had "just fucking" sex 5 times a week, or almost that, every week for years. And she did not end the A nor confess it to her BH. If they had not been fired, the A would still be ongoing to this day. It is difficult to conclude anything other than the fact that she really enjoyed the sex, a lot -- enough to jeopardize her job, her BH's health, and her marriage.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 9:13 AM, October 3rd (Wednesday)]