SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

To answer the end of your sex life forever. It’s not..we can still have sex and a lot of it..but the love making instead is what’s gone forever..For me that’s what I’ve lost in all this..we can have sex 50 times a day and that’s all it will be..just sex and nothing more. Oh it will feel good but it’s nothing compared to making love..that was so much more..I’ll miss that..i morn that..but that’s gone forever..each time I look at her I can only see what she was to her AP..and that’s where we will be forever..in my eyes...that’s the best I can give to someone like that.

Let me give you my concepts of some things I have no doubt is true. Did your wife enjoy sex with her AP? Yes she did or she would not have continued to engage multiple times over two years. Does that mean she enjoyed it more with him than with you? No is does not. If she had, then your sex life would have surely changed over the two years but you said it didn't change. If she didn't enjoy sex with you she would have definitely turned you down, at least some of the time, but she never did. So it is reasonable to believe her when she says it was just different. Maybe she enjoyed the "just f**king" with him and the emotional "love making" with you. There is a difference between the two. I never believe when a woman, having an affair, says they didn't enjoy the sex. If they didn't enjoy it then why did they do it time and time again? I had a man on my A-Team once say that the worst sex he ever had was great. I heard a woman once say that if you don't enjoy sex then you're doing it wrong. Anyone who keeps going back is enjoying it and at least thinks it's good and someone is doing it right. Now, stop worrying about penis size. If your wife wasn't happy with your penis size she wouldn't have kept having sex with you during the affair. Did she have orgasms when she had sex with you? If she did she most certainly was enjoying sex with you. I told you once before, it amounts to confidence in yourself. With around 3 billion men in the world, I'm absolutely sure there are many that are better in bed and with bigger d**ks than me but it doesn't affect me because I am confident in myself. I've never had any complaints. You need to be confident in yourself. If you were good in bed before then you're still good in bed. If you R then you have a lot of sex time to look forward to. She obviously has a higher sex drive than you realized she had. If you R then it's time to up your sex game. And also to switch up the "love making" with "just f**king". You need to read her the riot act. If she cheats again then it is over, no ands, ifs, or buts. But you have to understand she needs to be provided with what she really needs/wants sexually. I was lucky to have married my sexual equal. There is nothing we haven't tried together. What we liked we kept. What we didn't we didn't do again. I have never understood couples who do not discuss their sexual needs or fantasies with their partners. If you can discuss that with an AP but not your partner, then you don't need to be married to that person. In a true and close marriage there shouldn't be anything you can't discuss with your partner. She has offered you a million dollar deal to come home. That is a good indication she still wants you. Not the AP, but you. R does not mean you have to forgive her. It really doesn't mean you have to have sex with her, although at some time in the future R will probably fail if you don't. It means you have to find a place in life that you both can live together as a man and a woman. You have to answer two questions truthfully without any reservations.

(1) Do you still love her and do you believe she loves you?

(2) Will your life be better with her or without her?

If you R then both of you need to put in everything you have to make it work. Divorce is easy legally but very hard emotionally after 30 years together and especially if you have had a good marriage up to this point. R is work for both WS and BS. Hard work. But if you divorce, then divorce for the right reason. Don't divorce because sex MIGHT have been better with the AP. Or because you are worried his d**k was bigger or felt better to her. You divorce because you can not get by a two year affair and you feel you can no longer live with her. I got by an on and off 10+ year EA very early in my marriage (been married 52 years). She said there was never a PA and I never pushed to really find out. Being who I was at the time, I knew, and she knew, and the AP knew, someone would have suffered serious physical damage if a PA was involved. I mean VERY serious damage. Even today, I see no reason to visit that time. The last 40 years we have had a great emotional and intimate marriage. It does sometimes work. It's your choice because you are the one that has to live with the results. If you do R you can still go fishing with your brother as often as you want. I do wish you well.

T/J,

MilwaukeeMike42, how are you doing?

(I know that I'm not contributing, but what we learn as BSes is to recognize patterns)

Did your wife enjoy sex with her AP? Yes she did or she would not have continued to engage multiple times over two years.

I already disproved this. You are wrong. She loved how important and desired she felt. That's what all cheaters love.

You are not a woman. Or a cheater. Do not speak of things you do not understand.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 4:01 AM, October 1st (Monday)]

You disproved it? That's hilarious.

So many cheaters love to say they didn't like the sex that much. Somehow they think that makes it better.

Two years of sex and you think she didn't like it? Smmfh....

[This message edited by GoldenR at 4:11 AM, October 1st (Monday)]

You disproved it?

Yep.

If you read my earlier post.

Everyone ignored my post because it doesn't support their narrative. Guess whose narrative is broken? Yours.

If you have not lived it, do NOT speak for us. You are guessing. You "know" nothing and never will (on the topics you have not lived yourself).

It should be against the rules to speak on other people's motivations, shouldn't it? Oh, well.

Like I told OP earlier, disregard angryy BHs.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 4:13 AM, October 1st (Monday)]

All you proved was that regardless of the circumstances, you enjoyed the weird sexual relationship you had with your AP over the one you had with your H.

Unfortunately, OP's WW's AP didn't have ED.

Who knows more on this, Golden R, me or you?

You know more about yours. That's it.

I read in the I Can Relate thread regularly, and the WWs there are truthful in saying they enjoyed the sex.

She loved how she felt, not the sex.

She loved how she felt, not the sex.

She loved how she felt, not the sex.

She loved how she felt, not the sex.

She loved how she felt, not the sex.

Truth! We can't even separate the two during an affair; they become one in the same.

It should be against the rules to speak on other people's motivations, shouldn't it? Oh, well.

But that's what you're doing. You're not her.

And again, I see WWs all the time on here saying that yes, they liked the sex.

I don't see how you think you can speak for her. Do you really think that no WWs enjoy the sex?

She loved how she felt, not the sex.

Truth! We can't even separate the two during an affair; they become one in the same.

I think this is where truth becomes fuzzy and facts not as specific as it seems.

I think people get hung up on thinking "good sex" or "liked the sex" means physical sex sensations and happy endings. My wife, who contended for years that it was never about the sex, came to admit that it was significantly about what the sex got her, and without the sex, the kibble high would likely not have lasted, and that in association, it was clearly about the sex, not the typical concept of sex as a means to get to a physical release, but as a part of the overall drug that was her A.

I agree, in most cases, you cannot separate the two, which is why when some BH's insist their WW liked the sex, it is not incorrect as it all becomes part of the whole and for the most part the WS likes the whole.

If a woman is having an A with a man she has some emotional connection with, she likely enjoys intimacy with that man. And for grownups, intimacy is usually sex.

Firstly, I would like to echo how appreciated the comments from the female posters are and as another said, how they managed to make such good points so concisely.

The fact of the matter is that for many men (me included) sex is a big part of our emotional currency, so the sexual aspect of the A cuts very deep. And of course when we find out it's one of the things we focus on (size, skills, looks, etc, etc) because it plays to one of our deepest insecurities.

So we can reconcile that the guy is less successful, not as good a man, not as good a father, etc but then when we get to sex we immediately jump to the conclusion that he is some sort of go-all-night porn god.

Here's the thing, we don't know and we likely never will.

My WW said he wasn't as good and I know from geographical circumstances that there were not that many opportunities. The second point is a provable fact, the first well, what the hell is she supposed to say?

So my conclusion comes back more to what A are all about. I suspect that she found the sex pretty good, because it was completely entwined in the fantasy she constructed about him and the A. So of course it was exciting but it was probably all those other things that she really tuned into, not his dick.

In my case DDay came after the A had ended and the PA was topped and tailed by an EA. I found out 18 months after the latter EA had fizzled out.

My WW now sees her AP for what he is and that he manipulated her (which I am sure he did, though this excuses her not one iota) and I would imagine when she looks back now, actually that sex was part of something that was horrible, should never have happened and caused untold pain to both of us. I can't imagine her looking back at that and going, wow that was amazing!

So actually, most of it is perception, not reality. Which kind of describes As too.

So that's my take on it. It's from a male perspective, would be very interested to hear what female posters think.

** posting as a member **

You disproved it? That's hilarious.

So many cheaters love to say they didn't like the sex that much. Somehow they think that makes it better.

Two years of sex and you think she didn't like it? Smmfh....

My W says she enjoyed the sex initially, but it morphed pretty quickly into a chore.

I'm a pretty good interrogator and a very perceptive observer. During her A, I actually nailed what was going on, but I simply did not believe what the signs said. Beginning on d-day, I asked lots of questions and used every facility I have to separate truth from fiction.

My W told the truth - for most of her A, sex was a chore.

My W alone disproves the proposition that ALL WSes participate in and enjoy amazingly satisfying sex. Many fWSes on SI say the A sex wasn't great. They have no reason to lie. They sound honest. They deserve to be believed.

Ask yourself this: amazing sex requires skill and specific knowledge of one's partner's responses. If M sex wasn't that great, how the hell did the WS get the skill to make A sex great?

I have no doubt that sex is great in some As. At the same time, I think we have to accept that in some large portion of As, it's not the sexual strokes that matter, it's the ego strokes.

And if you think sex for your WS with the ap was better than sex with you, you may very well be scaring yourself.

And if it was better, why not ask your WS to show you the way?

Alright, coming into this thread late. I hadn't responded for the same reasons that Owningitnow outlined - that I will cause more pain, it all gets disregarded often by some who come on and try and refute what you are saying or claim it's being minimized.

My biggest fear is that I have answered this for others and it seemed to cause them more pain. You seemed to take what the others said well, so I will give my thoughts. Mostly they echo what the other women have already said here.

First, just know I had sex 3 times with AP, so I am not qualified to talk about Long-Term Affairs. But, I am a woman, and this is what is true for me:

1. Penis size is not at all an issue. Most men are sporting what is known as an average size. You can't tell a difference between them when they are inside of you. I did date someone once with a big one, and I hated it. It hurt and almost everything we did required carefulness. It really wasn't fun.

2. H and I have always had a good sex life. My decision to have an affair really had very little to do with sex, and everything to do with how the ego kibbles that AP was giving me made me feel. I know it's a hard leap for a BH to understand because the question becomes - why did you have se then? I answered this extensively in the ICR forum for Rideitout, so if you are interested in that post, it's about halfway through where the thread is now. I will look for it if needed.

3. My H and I have been having sex for decades, he knows me well, he knows what I like, I know what he likes. I found sex with AP to be a little awkward and I was in my head a lot. Good sex for me and many women require a comfort level that can't be acquired in short periods of time. I am not trying to say it wasn't good, or I didn't enjoy it but like PinkPggy said, it was probably more about the context of it than the actual acts themselves.

4. I didn't marry my husband because of sex. He has been my most compatible sexual partner for many reasons, but it's not like I always had bad sex with the men I dated before him. The thing that I think is true - if enough attention, time, and effort is made just about anyone can be your best sexual partner if you love them. I married my husband for a vast number of reasons, sex was only a small part of it.

I know that this is an area that hurts a BH to his core. I hate seeing your pain about this. But, as a woman, I can tell you the sex wasn't as significant to me as getting the attention and validation. It doesn't make it better, it doesn't mean it shouldn't hurt you. It's just not the way I was thinking, and many women here say similar things.

I know it's a hard leap for a BH to understand because the question becomes - why did you have se then? I answered this extensively in the ICR forum for Rideitout, so if you are interested in that post, it's about halfway through where the thread is now. I will look for it if needed.

hikingout:

This isn't my thread, but I would definitely be interested in reading it if you can find the post in question. I very much enjoy reading what you share here on SI, I respect your kindness and your honesty, and so does my fWW.

I think there is a difference between enjoying it/liking it and if it was better. I call BS if a WS said they didn’t like it or enjoy it at one point, probably at the beginning because it was new. They probably enjoyed it at that “moment” but how far is that “moment” and newness going to last? Not very long. I would be a lair if I come on here saying I NEVER thought the first few times said I liked bc it was new. But that newness and moment was gone and your still stuck with your broken empty self. I think a WS can look back afterwards saying overall no they didn’t enjoy as much as they thought because they can see how messed they really were in that “moment” and during the A. They keep going back because they think they are full filling something inside of them that sooner or later will get fulfilled but it never happens. After the first few times when the newness was wearing off I can see the difference between my H and AP. My H was better in many different ways then AP. But I kept going back thinking this was going fill the voids in my life. The more you ignore your problems the more your going to try to find a way to solve it by seeking something you think will work.

My H and I are more connected in so many different ways that our sex life is better then ever. Pre A is was just there. It was just sex for so long. But it’s not like that anymore. We enjoy it and have fun with it now. We come up with new ways to make it more exciting. I can honestly look back now and say no I didn’t enjoy it as much as I thought I did. I didn’t enjoy or like feeling empty inside that I was seeking something that was never going to satisfy me. I want sex with my H who I have a connection with, who loves me and respects me. Yes he does respect me. Ever WS has to be honest and I don’t believe it when they say they never did like it but I do believe they can look back and say I thought I did but I didn’t.... your lying to yourself if you say this... I won’t lie yes I thought I did but I really didn’t looking back.

Notbeyondrepair - Go to the I can Relate Forum, Choose the BS questions for WS. Some of the discussion starts on page 30 and it goes into 31. Other ww mindsets there too.

I seriously have to make a comment on, "She loved how she felt, not the sex." Since I would estimate I have had sex several thousand times in my life, I can truthfully say, without reservation, in all honesty, "Sex is feeling". Whether it's a feeling of intimacy, joy, closeness, for getting kibble bits of validation, or just sexual release, if you got what you were seeking from the sex then you enjoyed the sex. In this respect you can not separate sex and feeling. One feeds the other and therefore can't be separated. I again reiterate, whether it's sex, skydiving, going to a ball game or going to your favorite restaurant, if you willing do so over and over again you enjoy it. I see no other explanation. I don't know anyone that willingly does something again and again, unless they are forced to do it, that will continue if they don't enjoy it. I do wish you well.