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CantBeMe123, her not telling you about the affair earlier robbed you of a choice you could have made to continue or discontinue the relationship BEFORE the marriage. She benefited the most in that situation, getting another roll in the hay with someone else while keeping on the back burner for long term commitment. Ask her how she would feel were the roles were reversed and using her logic you now needed to go fuck another woman to realize your love for your wife, to be "snapped back into reality" and realize that you don't want to blow up the marriage. Ask her if she really thinks that sounds reasonable to her right now.

Losing the trust with her means she is no longer a "safe" person for you. She has to figure out how to be that safe person again.

As for the polygraph, it isn't so much the accuracy that matters but the parking lot confessions that usually occur right before the test is taken. If you tell her before she takes the polygraph that she has one more chance to confess on her own and that if she fails the polygraph you will file for divorce this generally puts the pressure on the wayward to come forward. But, whatever the consequences you lay out for finding out something she withheld despite that chance you've given her to come clean you NEED to follow though on the consequences.

@MurkyWaters - did the polygraph help?

Yes. She agreed to take it, we kept talking about things for about a month and half after she agreed, me asking for details. I waited until I was sure of the questions I wanted asked and then she took it. And passed. It helped improve a very crappy situation.

I doubt I would have gone with a polygraph if she had been in an active affair. I can't see me reconciling in those circumstances. But for something like this from so long ago. I thought it was about the only way I could know the truth. I also wasn't worried about accuracy, the process, attitude, and having to answer questions now that will be polygraphed later tells you a lot.

CantBeMe,

Get a polygraph, waywards like to minimize it matters that she is still lying to you, and it matters even more that she knows she is still lying but believes she is sparing your feelings. The drunk defense is also common.

How do you plan on dealing with the OM was he dating his current W or married at that time? Ask OM for his side of the story.

CantBeMe123, I'm sorry you find yourself here. Butforthegrace has already offered you some excellent advice and insight into your wife's actions and thought process, and I'm glad you're taking it into account.

You are absolutely right to feel as if you've had your life stolen from you. Your wife's lack of honesty robbed you of the ability to make massive life choices (such as who you married and who you had kids with) with informed consent, and it's difficult to find the words that can encapsulate the depth and cruelty of such a betrayal.

The people in your life telling you it was a long time ago and that you should just get over it can stuff it. You get to feel however you feel about this, and neither they nor your wife get to tell you otherwise. And if what you feel is that the best thing for you is to end your marriage, then that is a completely valid and reasonable course of action. Your wife was unfaithful to you and then buried the secret for twelve years. She looked you in the eye and made vows to love you, to honor you, to be faithful to you, knowing that they meant nothing because your relationship at the moment you got married was a sham, and a sham is what it's been ever since.

It's going to be especially difficult to deal with this because your wife has had such a long time to process/compartmentalize/justify/whatever else while for you, it's as if it just happened. You now know you're married to someone who is capable of incredible acts of deception and betrayal, and if she can't bring herself to completely validate your feelings and do whatever it takes to regain your trust, then she isn't remorseful and isn't worthy of reconciliation. One factor that definitely works against her is that she only chose to confess because she felt that your marriage was in a good enough place that you wouldn't leave her over it. That means that being honest with you and respecting you, even after twelve years together, is still not nearly as important to her as the preservation of her comfortable status quo. The more you think about it, the more her selfishness and disrespect will likely make you angry and distrustful, but right now anger is your best friend. It will keep you from making all the Mr. Nice Guy mistakes so many BHs make. It will keep you from rugsweeping and listening to the people in your life telling you to rugsweep. It will make you more comfortable with demanding whatever you need from your wife and being willing to make her suffer the consequences (divorce) of failing to do all in her power to fix herself and help you heal.

You will get through this.

[This message edited by firenze at 6:51 PM, November 1st (Thursday)]

I like the advice someone once posted here in a similar situation. He told his wife he was going to divorce her and demote her to girlfriend. If things went well he would leave the door open to get married again down the road. This way she felt the consequences but the children still had both parents still living together. Just something to kick around.

OP,

Sorry you are here......it really sucks that she lied for over a decade about this....

Proves she knows it was unforgivable, but she put her wants ahead of being honest and truthful with you.

I know you are reeling and confused here....and I do not mean this harshly at all.

But the first thing you have to do to find your correct path forward is to stop lying to yourself....

What I mean is this.....You said that you wished she had taken this to the grave.

That is lying to yourself, my friend.

If it was true you would have never been occasionally bringing up the kiss story over the years.

You wanted the truth....needed it.

You just hate that your worst fears about the situation AND that she has continued her treasonous lying until recently have been confirmed.....

You now know you have been played for a fool and are no doubt wondering who the hell this woman is who could bold faced lie to you for so long....

Whether you can eventually accept this about her is yet to be determined.....by how SHE reacts to the devastation she wrought.

But do not lie to yourself that you wish you could return to those times of nagging doubt about the reality of your own life.

Used the hurt and anger to power forward and decide what path is best for you.....based on her current remorse/behavior, and verifying that this betrayal has not been repeated at all in the years since.

Best of luck.

Everyone in my life says the same thing: "it was so long ago, she was young (early 20s at the time), you weren't married, you need to forgive and forget". It just doesn't feel that simple to me. I feel like my life has been stolen from me, that we married under false pretenses...

I think it's completely valid to feel like you were defrauded. You might have made a different decision if you had had all the facts in hand. At the bottom line though, would you really have chosen differently? Maybe, maybe not. Take some time and really explore that. Go back in your memory and journal it out. Your answers, if you put yourself back in the mindset you were in at the time could perhaps surprise you. Speaking for myself, I was so smitten when I married my WH, I would probably have forgiven him anything at the time.

If it helps you any, the prefrontal cortex of the brain (the judgment center) typically doesn't fully mature until we're in our mid-twenties. Add drunkeness to poor judgment and it's a recipe for disaster. I'm not saying you should forgive and forget. I think it's super important to feel your feelings about the fraudulent nature of the wedding. But I would also spend some time in consideration of what her demeanor has been after full brain development. What we do when we're young and stupid isn't necessarily reflective of who we end up being.

Well, in her defense "dating' is far less egregious than being engaged or breaking a marriage vow before God expressing total faithfulness and exclusivity. I guess it depends on your version of dating. Were you exclusive or serious enough that it was assumed you were committed to each other? It does suck that she deceived you and lying is never ok but I think the bigger picture here is you have a family with children and a marriage that is intact and happy I assume. I don't know, I would simply chalk this up to an indiscretion while she was young but doesn't really taint the marriage directly, and this is coming from someone who always advocates for divorce in cases of marital infidelity. I just remember the stupid things I did when I was young that I would never have considered doing after I got married, so I guess extending grace in those instances is easier when I think of it in those terms. GL with whatever decision you make.

The "kiss" was actually sex, and it happened at least three times, over the course of at least a month.

She was drunk during most of it, she has very little memory of what happened.

CantBeMe123

She was drunk for a month? Or he only had sex with her when she was drunk and compromised? Now a days you can go to jail for that. Did she ever talk to him when she was sober?

I like the advice someone once posted here in a similar situation. He told his wife he was going to divorce her and demote her to girlfriend. If things went well he would leave the door open to get married again down the road. This way she felt the consequences but the children still had both parents still living together. Just something to kick around.

Jman

I’ve used the phrase “demote her to girlfriend” many times. Most everyone today lives together before marriage. If things are great you upgrade to married. She flunked the marriage test so demote her back to live in girlfriend.

The problem is that if you don’t even bring up divorce then what she did (in your opinion) must not have been so bad after all.

For example let’s say that you rob a bank and get caught. You go before a judge and they say “don’t do it again”. Then the judge must think that robbing banks isn’t very bad.

My wife of 8 years recently confessed to an affair she had 12 years ago, while we were dating and living together but not married.

CantBeMe123

You were unmarried living together for 4 years. What's so bad about going back to that? That way she will have paid a price and you can go on with your life.

[This message edited by Michigan at 7:43 PM, November 1st (Thursday)]

On this site you will see many examples of people telling wayward that the only reasonable thing to do is confess. That anything else is living a lie.

On this site you will see many who feel that there life has been a lie, that their spouse defrauded them. That everything in the past is now tainted.

Both sides have merit. There is no way around this. Only through it. I guess it's good that she felt trusted and loved enough to stop the fraud. You though cannot help feeling that this was and is a massive FU. And yeah, you can't help but wonder how the people who knew have been secretly laughing at you. The truth is that they probably don't think about it at all.

The tough part about all this is the certainty that your wife is not and never has been what you thought. Some cannot get past this. Others can.

In the end it's not for you to get over it. It's up to her to demonstrate every day that she is worth a second chance.

CantBeMe123,

She says she confessed out of guilt. (Butforthegrace nailed her likely reasoning.)

Questions.

When she confessed, what was her demeanor?

Was she Nonchalant?

Upset?

Did she cry?

If so was it real crying, the snot nosed, shaky voiced, hyperventilating with wracking sobs?

Just wondering if there is any indication, that she has any idea what so ever, of the shitstorm she has wrought.

Does she still think the marriage is “strong enough”?

Does she realize that her married life is hanging by a thread?

I'm sorry this is driving you nuts but I'm going to put in my two cents worth. First, don't ask questions if you don't want the answer or you're not prepared to hear the answer. She has been a good faithful partner for 12 years. The incidents happened before you were married and hasn't happened since. She did believe that your marriage was strong enough to withstand the truth or she wouldn't have told you. And she wouldn't have told you if you hadn't kept asking. You even said you wish she had taken it to the grave. It appears she thought the marriage was stronger than you thought it was. She kept it secret because she probably thought, at that time, it would end your relationship. Let me impart to you a truth. EVERYONE has secrets that they don't want known and would cause hurt if reveled. In my life I have acquired a number of secrets that would do harm to people I hold dear. Example is I have a friend that met a girl while we were on an overseas deployment. He started having feelings for this girl but he was engaged to a girl back home. He was seriously considering breaking his engagement for this girl. We sat and talked most of the night about the situation and I convinced him that his life was with the girl back home. They have now been happily married for over 40 years with grown children. They now have grandchildren and are still happy. I ask you, what good would it accomplish by telling his wife this story now? Would she think she had been second choice? No good at all! Your marriage has not been a lie if nothing else has occurred and you have been happy with your life. If it makes you feel better then tell her she owes you sex with another woman three times. You don't have to have the sex just tell her you are owed that. Unless you are simply looking for a way out of the marriage then you are beating a horse that died years ago. Lastly, how many secrets do you have that would have a negative impact on your marriage if they came out? EVERYONE says, "I don't have any secrets" and I say bulls**t. Divorce is not always the answer to a marriage problem. If there was an affair that went on for months or years during the marriage/relationship then I would highly favor divorce. I have read of people on SI that I don't understand why they stay in the marriage since they have been cheated on and lied to numerous times. But they are still together. Give some thought before you destroy something good that you may regret latter. I do wish you well.

Anoldlion - so he should just shut up, and swallow it,right? Smmfh....

Yes, your friend's wife married your friend under false pretenses just like OP did his wife.

Your friend's wife's life is a lie just like OP's.

Of course he's shell-shocked. He knows he never would have married her had he known. And he could be living his life now with someone that WAS true to him.

That's a tough pill to swallow.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 2:45 AM, November 2nd (Friday)]

CantBeMe,

Even if everything that you have stated is true, and that there is nothing more to know, you have a lot of processing to do to get through this trauma.

Without a doubt, from this point forward I believe that your wife's empathy is paramount to your recovery. She was wrong---terribly wrong with not only her betrayal of infidelity, but the betrayal of denying you the truth. A member here often uses the term 'caged bird' to describe the act of withholding information in an effort to control an outcome. Only after she believed in her heart of hearts that she was 'safe', did she disclose. Her guilt was far less of a factor than her fear(of losing the marriage).

If she wants a chance to save this marriage(because believe me, if she doesn't put in some hard work to help you heal, your marriage will more than likely continue to deteriorate to a point beyond repair), then she better start digging. You claim that she has detached herself emotionally from this betrayal; well then, she better start re-attaching. She better start trying to dig for the answers to the questions that you inevitably will have. She better start to understand how huge of a trauma this is to you--as in the betrayal is fresh....like it happened weeks ago. Basically, she needs to get on the same page as you.

It's been mentioned a few times before about having her read the "How to Help Your Spouse Heal" book by Linda MacDonald. It's short, and probably a perfect book for your wife to read. Feel free to read it yourself---it's short, accurate, and helps validate all of the emotions that you are going through. Unless she understands....and accepts....the betrayal that she put upon you(especially the continued lies), the relationship will become weaker and weaker.

I believe that you want to reconcile. From what you describe, so does your wife. But it takes more than the desire to succeed; it take effort....a lot of it....from both of you. Trust is one of the hardest things to restore. You are only going to start to rebuild that trust when YOU believe that you have the entire truth that she is capable of providing, and that SHE is showing, through her efforts, that she is worthy of regaining trust. Right now, that account is wayyyy overdrawn, deep in the red, and it's going to take a lot of small deposits to even get the account back to zero....yet alone in the positive. Any new discovery.....especially anything that you found out on your own, wipes away any deposits made in that trust account. Then, as she continues to show her honesty and sincerity, and nothing new transpires, does the trust start to slowly rebuild. If you read enough around here, you will see several stories of success....along with stories of failure. It really comes down to the level of commitment to reconcile, along with the actions taken. If she is all in, and is totally transparent and empathetic from this point forward, then your chances to succeed increase drastically.

Your WW's adultery occurred a long time ago (12 years) for her but is brand new, like yesterday, for you, Can't be me. Even though there was something a little off about her story that caused you to bring it up sporadically you didn't know. Now you do. It's brand new. Advice to rug sweep it is bad advice, IMO.

I think I have an understanding about your turmoil. I was suspicious about my WW committing adultery but didn't have proof until DDay1 (forced confession) seven years after it ended in the 36th year of marriage. Something about the whole story didn't sit well with me and I picked at it sporadically. The other DDays were about cheating before we were married. We weren't married and didn't live together but were talking seriously for one and engaged for the others. I think I wanted my WW to prove to me, beyond a shadow of doubt, she hadn't committed adultery.

You can't have a fully engaged relationship when there is deceit in it, IMO. Secrets make you sick. You said you wished she'd taken it to her grave. My WW was going to. Our marriage, and I postulate yours, was affected by the deceit. There isn't complete commitment. On the side of the betrayed there is this niggling doubt about things not adding up. The lies and the doubt aren't a good foundation.

There is a risk that adultery can occur again. My WW was never going to cheat after we wed until she did. After all, she'd gotten away with it (no big consequences she couldn't handle).

I suggest there is a possibility that it could be more than 3 times with this guy for your wife. This is trickle truth. The position is that "I've told you everything so there isn't any more to reveal, let's move on". I suggest that there could have been more than the one guy. Your WW should be informed that she needs to reveal all because any new information exposed over time is extremely detrimental. Trickle truth is hugely abusive and destructive.

A polygraph has been suggested. I suggest, as well. You only get 3 or 4 questions which can only be answered yes or no and are factual not emotional. Did you cheat or have intimate contact with anyone else when we were unmarried but living together? Did you have more sex than the 3 times confessed? Have you had intimate contact with anyone since we married?

I feel my marriage was based on a lie. All 41 years of it, now. I didn't have important information I should have had to make the most important decision of my life. I know now. My wife to be had cheated on her boyfriend before me with many guys, some of whom were married or with SOs.

I'm so sorry you're here. Given your situation, though, it was a great place to find. I hope things work out for you whether you R or D. Your WW needs to do a lot of heavy lifting. Her actions, not words, are very important. There isn't any cookie cutter template to follow about whether to R or D. That is a personal decision that you alone can make. What you can find here on SI is insight based on others having lived and dealt with what you're going through. Best wishes for strength of mind and clarity of thought.

ETA: I remember the first time my WW and I kissed. I remember the first time we had sex and the second. I know the dates of both. That was over 42 years ago. I remember my first date with my high school girlfriend and the month and year it was. Just adding that I have a lot of trouble with the I can't remember and I don't know stances.

[This message edited by steadychevy at 7:19 AM, November 2nd (Friday)]

Anoldlion when you say your friend had "feelings" for another woman (while engaged) I'm assuming this was a sexual relationship?

Just like CantBeMe, I wonder how your friends now wife would feel if she knew about this OW and the feelings your friend had for her (and even more so if it was a sexual relationship) and that her husband felt so strongly about this OW that he was considering calling off the engagement to her?

You're looking at it from the wayward/cheater side. CantBeMe and your friends wife were cheated on and LIED to for years. CantBeMe has now learned the truth and in his case he had a hunch something had gone on previously with his wife.

You also said "EVERYONE has secrets that they don't want known and would cause hurt if reveled" followed by "how many secrets do you have that would have a negative impact on your marriage if they came out"?

By your own statement you've just pointed out there's ramifications ("negative impact") on what happens when these "secrets" come out and thus why (in your opinion and offering advice to the cheater) you better shut the F up and say nothing so you won't have to feel the brunt of the "negative impact".

Your friend got away with the lying.

Unfortunately CantBeMe has now learned the truth and it's natural for him to feel his wife is a liar and wondering about what else she's lied about and chewing on the thought of whether he would have even married his wife if he had known the truth.

CantBeMe is the BS, not the cheater, and is asking for advice. It appears you're offering advice to a cheater/liar on what they should do.

Like GoldenR said, "should he just shut up and swallow it"?

How do you plan on dealing with the OM was he dating his current W or married at that time? Ask OM for his side of the story.

The guy has been out of her life since this happened 12 years ago. They were both very young at the time, early 20s, and worked together at a retail store. She quit once I found out about it. I will never get his side of the story nor do I really want to. I don't know his name or what he looks like and for that I am grateful.

As for the polygraph, it isn't so much the accuracy that matters but the parking lot confessions that usually occur right before the test is taken. If you tell her before she takes the polygraph that she has one more chance to confess on her own and that if she fails the polygraph you will file for divorce this generally puts the pressure on the wayward to come forward.

I appreciate this advice. I have asked and she has agreed to a polygraph. I told her last night that if it shows she is lying, I can't see myself staying with her. I also told her one of my questions will be, "are there any other sexual interactions, with this person or anyone else, you have not disclosed to me." This is my number one question and really the only one that matters to me.

I like the advice someone once posted here in a similar situation. He told his wife he was going to divorce her and demote her to girlfriend. If things went well he would leave the door open to get married again down the road. This way she felt the consequences but the children still had both parents still living together. Just something to kick around.

How exactly would this work? Do you mean to actually go through with a divorce but remain as roommates/co-parents? Not sure I could make that work.

What I mean is this.....You said that you wished she had taken this to the grave.

That is lying to yourself, my friend.

If it was true you would have never been occasionally bringing up the kiss story over the years.

You wanted the truth....needed it.

You just hate that your worst fears about the situation AND that she has continued her treasonous lying until recently have been confirmed.....

You now know you have been played for a fool and are no doubt wondering who the hell this woman is who could bold faced lie to you for so long....

Whether you can eventually accept this about her is yet to be determined.....by how SHE reacts to the devastation she wrought.

But do not lie to yourself that you wish you could return to those times of nagging doubt about the reality of your own life.

Used the hurt and anger to power forward and decide what path is best for you.....based on her current remorse/behavior, and verifying that this betrayal has not been repeated at all in the years since.

I think you are right, I just don't want to deal with the hurt, grief, agony, humiliation, betrayal, etc... I do feel like she's a different person, we're in our mid-30s now, she's a mom and a great mom at that, and I really feel like she regrets what she did, but I still hate her for doing it and lying about it for so long. I just feel like I know we will reconcile, which means life will be practically the same as before except now I have this deep pain inside of me that doesn't do me any good.

If it helps you any, the prefrontal cortex of the brain (the judgment center) typically doesn't fully mature until we're in our mid-twenties. Add drunkeness to poor judgment and it's a recipe for disaster.

My wife has a psychology degree and actually made this exact argument to me. It felt like making excuses, but I know there is truth to it. It does help to remind myself how young she was and how stupid we all can be at that age, even though I was not. I have always been an "old soul" which is why I did not want to go out partying with her, and trusted her to go have her fun but not betray me. I think she was too young to make mature decisions and turn away advances from a guy she developed a crush on. It kills me but it at least makes sense.

She was drunk for a month? Or he only had sex with her when she was drunk and compromised? Now a days you can go to jail for that. Did she ever talk to him when she was sober?

She said she was drunk or high every time they had sex, but that she did once get lunch with him sober outside of work and it did lead to sexual acts, just not sex. I think she is either in denial or lying, and that the affair was more emotional than she wants to make it sound. It was spread out over at least a month, probably 2 or 3, so even if she was drunk while having sex, she clearly made sober decisions to go out with him and she knew where it would lead.

When she confessed, what was her demeanor?

Was she Nonchalant?

Upset?

Did she cry?

If so was it real crying, the snot nosed, shaky voiced, hyperventilating with wracking sobs?

Just wondering if there is any indication, that she has any idea what so ever, of the shitstorm she has wrought.

Does she still think the marriage is “strong enough”?

Does she realize that her married life is hanging by a thread?

She was upset when she confessed, she was teary eyed and she read from a "prepared statement" she had written, then left me to ask questions. She has not really done any sobbing/hyperventilating/etc other than when I have threatened to leave or she thinks about our kids. This bothers me and makes me think she has marginalized what she did and is mainly concerned with her own consequences. She says she is sorry very often, she has sent me emails of old pictures and shared fond memories of us and told me why she loves me and wants to be with me forever. These things help a lot. She gets very scared when I ask her questions and will repeat to herself, "it will never be enough, I can never do enough". I think she is resigned to the fact that even if I stay with her, I will never be the same person nor look at her same.

To "Anoldliion" - thank you for your thoughts. I do think there are different levels of secrets, lies and betrayals, and while her betrayal has hurt me deeply, I do realize it is certainly on the more minor side. I want us to work. Thanks for the positivity.

It's been mentioned a few times before about having her read the "How to Help Your Spouse Heal" book by Linda MacDonald. It's short, and probably a perfect book for your wife to read. Feel free to read it yourself---it's short, accurate, and helps validate all of the emotions that you are going through. Unless she understands....and accepts....the betrayal that she put upon you(especially the continued lies), the relationship will become weaker and weaker.

I bought it last night and asked her to read it - she is about halfway done. I am going to read it today. I hope it helps her, because I do feel unsatisfied with her level of remorse.

ETA: I remember the first time my WW and I kissed. I remember the first time we had sex and the second. I know the dates of both. That was over 42 years ago. I remember my first date with my high school girlfriend and the month and year it was. Just adding that I have a lot of trouble with the I can't remember and I don't know stances.

Yeah, I feel like she is full of shit on her memory and how much of it she remembers. I think she is saving face and hiding the parts that she is the most ashamed of. I only pray she is not hiding more betrayals. I can barely remember that time in our life so I could understand memory being hazy, but I would have to imagine that cheating and fucking someone else would burn into your memory a bit...

CantBeMe123, you've received a lot of good advice. I can relate to feeling like my "agency" was taken away from me by my fWH while dating and feeling like his intentions were all a lie to gain an object called "a wife" while keeping his OW around for the social & work girlfriend role.

One aspect I think you need to explore with yourself and with her is that there was the PA she admitted to and then there was the ongoing lying about it, that happened to your face for years. A lot of folks here say what hurt the M the most were the lies. You asked, repeatedly for the truth. She chose to repeatedly lie to you and keep you in the dark. You weren't asking for her sexual history with prior partners before you got together. You were dating and living together at the time, in a relationship that you thought was exclusive.

Lying for years, to your face, every time you asked about it.

As you head through this mess, I'd recommend going back through the Healing Library frequently and re-reading the material there. It might not all make sense to you right now, but I know I've gone back through and certain pieces of wisdom made sense to me at different points in my journey to clean out the shit under our rug.

A wife who lies to her husband for more than 12 years is not a good wife. A good wife doesn't lie about something this big.

OP, you said you don't know the other man's name?? Why is that?

Unfortunately 12 years of lying and concealment do not a good marriage make. Me? I would punish her by separating. Tell her she has a fuck ton of apologizing, begging and pleading. Tell her that at this point you do not forgive. Ask her what her penalty should be for this? The one question I hit waywards with, even though I am only the money and asset guy, is what would you do if the shoe was on the other foot? OP, your wife is a psychologist of some stripe, I am sure she can take the opposite view, let her imagine you having an affair. How would she feel knowing you stuck your dick in another woman. Then ask her how you should feel right about now?

One of my clients put the question to her husband. He said, I do not know how I would ever forgive you. That led to a massive realization that this should have come been revealed around the time it happened. Now, she is dealing with a many years of the marriage being a lie. This is the reality faced by the OP's BH. I have seen marriages destroyed for less.