SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

We only know him through you. These questions might ask more than you want to divulge but they might help you ask him the right ones. What is relationship with his son? Does he stay in touch with his deceased wife’s family? Has he EVER discussed her with you? Do you know enough to tell whether it was a good marriage or not? If so why, and if not why not. He can’t use the excuse that it was a long time ago and he doesn’t want to discuss it. Too bad. He owes you these answers.......if they are still important to you.

In thinking about his behavior I keep going back to words we have used. “Resentment” “boredom” are two. I wonder if, instead, you might think about the word “rage”. It usually stems from childhood and can percolate under the surface for years. Do you know much about his childhood? He might have been damaged by it. Knowing the difference between that and him being born this way might guide you.

I am writing this as if I think you will reconcile. It isn’t my business. I just think having answers helps you make decisions.

When you do decide that you need to go to the house for personal items, ask him the leave the house for a while if you are not ready for a personal confrontation.

If he refuses, or shows up while you are there, it will tell you that he does not care about your emotional health nor your feelings.

Ask a trusted friend to go with you to help with the packing so he cannot ambush you alone.

SB

For me if & when I met the cheater. I would sit down & say "before you talk understand this I know everything so now explain yourself. Let him do the talking. It should not take too long unless he starts blame shifting & deflecting 99% of the A to his neighborhood F-Buddy.

After he has finished spewing out his verbal diarrhea you can then ask any questions & if you so desire ask for a written timeline to be delivered within 1 day, again reinforcing that you know all that transpired. Make your decision from there.

Sending strength (((hugs)))

1 question on feeling safe

I understand that your husband is a mature successful confident man (retired and financially successful in his own right). I don’t see jealousy of your success or competition with you as a major motivating factor.

I’m also a firm believer in judging people by their actions (if available) vs words so perhaps I’m over reacting - but their playing mind games with you scares me.

The common characteristics of an adulterer is: selfish, deceitful, entitled, and lacking empathy.

However, those characteristics don’t seem to explain their ongoing conspiracy (i.e., with intent) to set up and enjoy your social discomfort as well as your physical and emotional suffering/disorientation.

IMO their affair wasn’t just about them - but it included them launching and enjoying an overt direct attack on you.

Question for your WH:

You lied and conspired daily to set up and enjoy (e.g., laughing at me) my social discomfort as well as my physical and emotional suffering/disorientation. Therefore, your affair included planning, launching and enjoying an overt direct attack on me. If you fired a gun at my head (and missed), would you expect me to give you a second shot? Aside from theatrics and promises, what can you do to make me feel safe around you again?

1 question on NC?

Don’t assume they are NC. Why? Because (among other things) she lives next door.

Your husband sounds like a very intelligent and determined man that is capable of figuring out: how did you find out?

The last message from your WH to the OW breaking off contact is common when the affair is initially exposed. However, it’s not necessarily a long term condition (especially when the OW lives right next door).

If her messages are ignored, it’s probable she’d confront your husband by simply knocking on his door. I think it’s reasonable to assume she confronted him face to face at least once (and he should admit it).

Therefore, ask him: has he had any contact with her of any kind?

Finally, I also think you might consider that your WH and the OW are using a different messaging app and bypassing whatever you’re using to monitor their communication. Why? Because it’s obvious from your initial confrontation that you either heard them talking or you somehow monitored their messages.

Ugh----it's scary how spot on the vets here are!!! I would have bet money they weren't in contact anymore but I would have lost that $$. Out of utter lack of willpower, I checked their iPhone messages again because I'm an idiot. They have been in contact and he has even gone to help her with something at her house! Jesus, I can't catch a break. That utter feeling of dread and shock that came when I saw continued contact is heart-stopping, stomach-dropping and is just too much! Seems there was a long stretch of nothing and then a plea from her to help with a leak at her house. Well her knight in shining armor seems to have just jumped on his white horse and went to help! Lovely! Perfect! She later thanks him and hopes "I don't lose this friendship I have come to depend on." Really? FFS!!!

So, I was obviously pissed and shot off a string of texts to him saying if there is any hope for us to even remain civil, let alone married, he had to promise they were not at all in contact since the day I told him I knew. Not one message. Not one visit! Nothing. He came back with, "I don't want to have anything to do with her but I can't tell you we have not spoken or seen each other but I'd like the chance to explain." Me: "Nope! Can't imagine how in the world you could ever explain that one but I bet you both came up with a good explanation to use!"

Crap. I'm just literally sick to my stomach, pissed as all get out and honestly, horribly disappointed. I just want to scream! Aaaaaaarrrrrggghhhhhhh!!!!!

I'm struggling so bad right now, guys. I'm so angry and sad! I don't know how to get it under control. I'm so lost.

I haven't posted because you're getting excellent advice.

know that what they do does not define -you-. It defines them.

Your WH has shown himself to be quite untrustworthy with a hint of evil thrown in. Your former neighbor has clone the same. Personally, my trust in him would be gone. That would color future interactions.

You've been heard, and good luck.

Speedbump,

You may be a simmering stew of mad and sad now. Later, you'll discover that your WH did you a favor with this recent contact. He's reinforced how toxic he is for you now.

When someone shows you who they really are, you should believe them.

Here's hoping for the best outcome for you.

I am so sorry. I was thinking that maybe your WH "got-it" understood what he had done, was truly remorseful... that we would start seeing signs of him doing anything and everything in his power to regain your trust. I was wrong.

You've had so little contact with him but you made two things crystal clear to him over and over again. One was NC with her and the other was how much their affair has hurt you. He knew you couldn't even deal with moving back to your house because SHE was across the street... and yet they had contact.

I'm sorry, this separation to find yourself, was a test to see if you could begin trusting him again and he failed it miserable.

If anything he now knows that you can monitor their text messages. It may make him stop, but it may make them find another way to communicate that you won't know about, ie take it underground. It's really, really hard not to react to more lies and I think he is going to lie his face off in the timeline - if he even does it for you. He may make it fit only what he knows you can check up on. I would still ask for it, but keep in mind that it may be worthless for information. If he is committed and truly remorseful he might give you an honest document with more information than you currently know. I hope so for your own peace of mind.

But then again, you now know that he is weak and not committed and is looking for a chance to gaslight you some more. He just isn't taking you and your pain seriously.

His choice to have any contact speaks to his selfishness and stupidity.

His response to “explain” speaks to his stupidity and inability to understand the damage he caused. Also it shows a complete and utter lack of respect to you.

I am so sorry. But at least he has not led you down a path that you cannot recover from. Because nothing has changed for you except possibly some dashed hopes of him understanding anything- hurt, pain, devastation etc.

I’m sorry for you. I’m sorry he continued to be a liar and cheater. Because if you had not checked he would have insisted “it’s over”. And in your mind you would expect that to mean no contact. I’m his mind it just means they are not having sex.

He doesn’t get it. And I would suggest you NOT sit down and talk with him. For any reason. Just know there is no point as there is no truthfulness or honesty coming ftom him.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 8:29 AM, February 11th (Monday)]

Yeah, nobody wants to be the villain in their own life story. He is still operating under the notion that he can play the role of 'good guy'. He'll just 'explain things' to his wife. He'll still go to the neighbor's to 'help out', because after all, he's a good guy, right?

He's been left to stew in the wreckage of his own choices, and he's trying to maintain the self-image that he's always held for himself in spite of what he did. He can't. He hasn't accepted that yet.

He has a LOT of work to do. Only you can decide if you're going to be there for it, or if you want to just step away from all this and start over.

I'm so sorry. I'm disappointed too - my heart sank when I read your update. The NC thing was a big plus in the "Potential for R" column and he pooped on it.

But at least her leak is fixed. Thank God for that.

I had sort of hoped he was not who he is. They are in each other’s lives. This is your reality.

I am so sorry. Don’t let this make you ill again.

Nothisfriend:.

If anything he now knows that you can monitor their text messages

.

He does not know I can monitor. I didn't tell him I knew anything, I only told him they had to be no contact and he told me he couldn't give me that. He has no idea I know he went to her house to help her out. I haven't given up my source and he hasn't asked.

I am trying to get through the work day here and just make it to tomorrow. I'm so worn out from all of this. He keeps texting begging me to meet to speak but he's on mute now. I can't deal with all of this.

I only told him they had to be no contact and he told me he couldn't give me that

Speedbump. I'm gutted for you. ..and what did he mean by that quote above? That he can't give NC to you because he's already had contact - or that he refuses to give you that in the future?

I’m so sorry SB. That really sucks. He’s an idiot. If I was advising him I would have told him to actually move out of the house and get away fro her himself until it’s sold. I actually wish he had a good person advising him. I suspect he’s trying to navigate this on his own. A big mistake. No one is innately an expert at healing after an affair. But a truly Remorseful WS needs to research what it takes.

I agree with your instincts. Be very tough on him.

If you’re looking for additional words I’d tell him (much like you have) “I can’t imagine how you thought having any contact with her would help us ever recover our relationship. You just don’t get it and it’s obvious to me now that you’ll never be the man I need you to be, making me feel safe in our relationship. I was working towards meeting with you to discuss if there was any path back to us, but I can see now that was a mistake. You still have her in your life and that is a deal breaker to me. You’ll hear next from my attorney.”

SB. Speak as tough as you want. He deserves it. It’s a devastating setback which is probably a deal breaker.

But if I’m honest with you, there will be lots of stumbles by a WS along the path of fixing themselves. Yes this is another nail in the coffin. And breaking NC is a big one.

But I often say here that if a WS is getting it right even 50% of the time that’s a lot, especially in the early days after DDay. If that’s the case then you still have something to work with. They will fail more than they succeed. The goal in R is for them to succeed more and more and fail less and less over time.

That is all dependent of course on what you want. If you just want to be done, be done. But i know the heart doesn’t always follow what the head needs.

So Sure raise hell over what he did. He may have figured if all he did was stop her house from being flooded and then quickly goes back to NC that there’s no harm done. Of course, that’s not the case. It’s a big mistake he will most likely pay for by losing his marriage

The truth is she’ll manufacture disasters to keep him reeled in. Again, he’s an idiot for believing it. And He’s done this even before you’ve had a chance to have that first real talk. Not the sharpest tool in the shed, for sure.

So my recommendation would be to appropriately read him the riot act, and let him know this is a big setback.

In the meantime try and muster the courage to skype or FaceTime with a couple of attorneys this week. You need that information to maintain control.

My only goal here is to tell give you some hope if you want it, that this stupidity does not mean that R is no longer possible. Of course it makes it less likely and that is disheartening. But it’s been done even from the lowest of points.

SB. You haven’t even gotten to the starting line yet of really doing that work. Personally I recommend you still meet with him in the next week or two. Something inside me (probably misguidedly) tells me he has it in him to become the man you need him to be. He’s going to stumble. Hopefully not by breaking NC again, but he’s going to fumble, often, but it all depends on where his heart is.

You are still in a position to wait and see. Keep the strong position you have built up. You’re going to need it. So keep on the pressure as you are appropriately doing.

But in a couple of days, if the initial blow of this new news has tempered slightly, perhaps still ask him for that timeline, and more importantly to me, a draft recovery plan. Do it in the guise of telling him you’re interested to see if he’s even up to the task.

Let’s see what he comes back with.

My heart goes out to you. As you can tell I’m a “it’s not over til it’s over” kind of guy. I hope my optimism can at least give you a chance to catch your breath, even if it’s just for a moment before you decide it’s time to move on.

You have a lot of people here rooting for you SB, no matter what you decide. We’re confident you’re gonna find happiness again either way.

Take care.

Sinsofthefather, good question but I took it to mean he was admitting there had been contact since I told him I knew and therefore he could not admit to no contact since then. Of course now I question what he meant but that's how I took it. Ugh!

I'm so sorry, friend. I really am. I know, as do we all, how totally eviscerating this pain is. It's even moreso when, even after all the crap that you've already been through and that he has witnessed, he's still prioritizing the AP and giving her the impression that she has ANY hope of 'not losing the friendship she's come to depend on'. Barf.

I guess the silver lining is that, knowing he still doesn't know you're monitoring their communication via text, he didn't lie to you when you asked if he'd spoken to/seen her. :

It's not very comforting though, in the moment...

Is he offering up anything in his incessant texting? I mean, what the hell did he THINK was going to happen when you found out he was still talking to her? Jesus.

Sounds like polygamy to me.

He has one wife in your house and another in the house next door - he is splitting his time between them.

At the moment, he thinks he can manipulate you by promising "I can explain" or "It's not as bad as you think".