SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Forgiveness is for you, not her.

I completely agree. Forgiveness is a gift that you give to yourself. A BS will continue to have problems internally, regardless of the recovery actions of a WS, until a state of forgiveness is reached by the BS. As a BS, you need to build your capacity to forgive by learning more, provided the WS is worth it, or divorce. But even if you end in divorce, you hurt yourself if you can’t learn/find a way to forgive. It’s all on you. It’s the sh_t sandwich you must consume.

Another way to look at this is, if you divorce your WS and your WS remarries, your WS might become one of the best spouses ever based on lessons learned, and you might become married to something worse, and this is entirely because you are not able to forgive.

Gently, Clint, what did you expect would happen?

The BS is traumatized. That doesn't go away on its own. It takes work, and it often takes the help of a good IC, for lots more than a session or 2.

And that work needs to be done, whether you R or D or bury your head in the sand.

I'm not saying you should R. I'm not saying you should D. I am saying that I hope you place enough value on your self and your life to make your remaining years as joyful as possible.

Your W's cheating says nothing about you. I know that even as it made me a recluse and probably made our retirement harder than it needed to be. I know the thoughts about life always sucking.

But it does not have to be that way - if you do the work you need to do.

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** Posting as a member **

Solo,

So you'll D your W just as your kid enters adulthood? You'll tell him/her you've been lying to him/her for years? You'll dump this on him/her when s/he's in one of the most fragile states possible for a youngster?

All because you won't deal with your own trauma?

Man, I don't see how anybody's parents D'ing when they're 18 can help them lead a life their parents want them to lead.

Remember, human brains don't mature until our mid-20s. I urge you to think 12 years, not 5.

Your WS caused d-day, but your response to d-day is your problem to solve. It takes work, whether you D or R. And you're the only one who can do that work for you.

Please, don't settle.

I have to agree with Sisoon's take on waiting until the kids are out of high school. My in-laws did this, and to this day, 35 years later, my husband and his brother are still impacted. They learned not only that what they thought the perfect childhood family they had was basically a lie. They re-examine everything through a very clouded lens now. I'm not saying the OP should D his wife, but I do think he should think more long term as far as hos kids go. Also, most kids dont just leave home adter high school graduation. They may go off to college, but oftentimes they come back. What then?

When my husband found out his parents were splitting up (we were in college by then) he realised amd still struggles with the fact that his Mum had settled for most of their childhood (my father in law was unfaithful) in the name of sacrificing for her children. That is a tough pill for a young adult to swallow.

It's ok to admit that an A Is a deal breaker. For some people it simply is. Clint, I am sorry you are so unhappy.

You have been heard. I'm sorry you're here.

One takeaway that helped me is that my recovery/healing is my responsibility, not my cheaters. I own my own health and growth. Internalizing that put power back into my own hands. I'm trying to move forward positively for my own sake. Part of that is trying to help others through this.

Having said that, I'm speaking as someone who broke up with the cheater right away which I think helped.

Clint, I understand how you feel very, very well. If you want to D your wife I think you should.

The question of when to D is difficult though. I understand your rationale for waiting until the kids are grown, but I’d hate to think of you being trapped in your current state for that long.

In my opinion, if you decide to gut it out for 3 years, you should start talking to an IC soon so that they can help you build yourself back up before you D. That way you’ll be able to start your New Beggining in a much better place, and be better prepared to help your kids through the transition as well.

I wish you well.

Thanks for the perspective....still seeing the shit stain as well.

Clint...started tearing up reading your post. I'm 7 yrs out. I understand and deeply empathize with everything your saying. You've done nothing wrong. You tried. I too didn't want to end up the crusty old hag looking weathered and beaten. I'm still trying to pull my life together. This is not for the faint of heart. Change your future and you change your past...meaning actively choose different thoughts, feelings, anything from here on out and into the future and I will bet my life that your feelings about what happened in the past will change. Think of it a some quantum entanglement stuff....try that for now. But if you are set upon leaving (I def would recommend a counselor)....choose to do that sooner than later....your happiness depends upon that. Much sympathy to you....and I'm really sorry about what happened.

IMO surviving an affair is solely dependent on the ability of the BS to overlook the fucking tragedy of it all.

I feel this so much. And I am only 2 months from Dday. We have a 7yo and 3yo. I have been with him since I was 18. I don't think I can overlook the tragedy of it. I won't be able to eat the shit sandwich and smile at him. He broke us in a terrible manner.

Clint, there is happiness out there for you. You can be a kickass dad all on your own. There are even other nice, loyal women out there if that is what you want. You aren't stuck. Give yourself permission to leave and find yourself, find happiness again.

IMO surviving an affair is solely dependent on the ability of the BS to overlook the fucking tragedy of it all.

pain cannot be overlooked...so IMO this is the nugget to really work out

is that thought true? How can we overlook that we broke a leg? We cannot just get up and walk without a cast... if we don't treat the injury it will leave permanent damage

the experience happened and has to be acknowledged

it is what we do with that knowledge to grow upwards into more aware/awake and overall healthy that allows the pain of that growth to transform us = for good

a good documentary I think to watch is Murderball - the young man was paralyzed by his friend's actions in the blink of an eye

he chose not to live the life of a cripple

our healing as a BS is strictly our own. Is it fair we were victims in the crash of the "marriage car" that our spouse was driving while we slept in that faith/trust that "he/she would never..." ? No it is not fair

but it happened

I would suggest you take back your control and honor your choices to stay not as a victim or for some external "for the kids" rationale but really honestly own and forgive yourself for staying for the right reasons to become the man you are meant to be. You completely control you 100% your job to heal that internal dialogue that still sees "cripple"

It's like getting to the point when ya take the scars you are covered with by the fire and ya start to see cool shapes in them. Ya go to the tattoo parlour with your ideas and get some wicked ink. People see the tattoos afterwards and comment on the beautiful artwork you have designed and ya have a hellofa story to go along with why you have the tattoos ;-)

our choice to frame our experiences determines how we go from survive to thrive

I had to get to a point (not easy but necessary) to realize that in the same way that in giving birth my body is designed to work and not meant to be a painful experience, so too my emotional intelligence with integrating how my body and mind feels in the moment linked to me finding words to express and communicate better was a good outcome in raising my three amazing blessings.

I am not saying being humbled by God to have a whore be the conduit to tell me my family is neurodiverse is an easy walk. But I am thankful to have truth in my life and be able to use this information so I am not simply stuck on hurt people-mode wanting to hurt people in reaction to my pain

do the work because you are worth it. period.

Your kids will see a better man and that is a gift IMO worth giving

so good you got that vent out

now - what are you going to do with those thoughts in transforming them to positive actions and positive change?

peace as you process

the only way out of hell is to keep walking

so move ;-)

Sure, this forum is about surviving infidelity. But people who have had to survive suicides, abductions, the violent loss of children want to tell you, "Big deal. Trauma is trauma is trauma, and your shit sandwich is not more disgusting than my shit sandwhich."

If you think the remedy is divorce, you are a fool who is going to potentially lose a lot looking for a magic fix to the pain of trauma. I know gobs and gobs of bitter, angry divorcees. Divorce doesn't magically fix your heart or mind.

What Sisoon says.

IC. IC. IC.

Save yourself and start doing some work.

We are each responsible for our own happiness. That is the first and maybe only rule of IC.

Good luck to you.

I just want to reach out and say "KUDOS" to you for being brave enough to write out how you feel at this time, that took alot of guts and you have to know that your peeps on SI totally got your back and are here to listen.

I also want to tell you that I am someone who just went into IC about 6 months ago. This was 14 yrs after my H's A and also about a year or so after I found out about something he had lied about that was a big lie (not A related but big enough that I triggered huge) and I went back into detective mode and found some other stuff, I held onto it for a bit and then just had what I would call a major breakdown 1 night, I do believe I had belated PTSD or a form of it because I just had never acted like this before, I mean I had a melt down in front of my H.

But needless to say, I too waited and hoped that he would change, that he would stop lying and stop hiding things, start talking to me and just show me the "real" him. But needless to say, his need for validation and others to like him seemed to take precedent over our partnership and our marriage, it took precedent over seeing his wife have a breakdown in front of him, I begged him to talk to me, to finally be an honest human being for me, he cried, he begged... but he just cannot be honest about who he is and what other things he may have done. I just can't find that man any more.

So I took some time to think about what I needed and just stopped worrying about what he wanted, I just knew I could not seem to pull the trigger yet, I knew it should've been a deal breaker, yet there I sat, frozen in place... I just could not move and could not make a decision and I do think I went into depression for a few months, don't get me wrong, I still went to work, I still did my every day stuff, but the joy was gone... it was like I was a shell of myself. And I knew my sons were worried about me. And that was where I finally said I had to do something for me. I did not like how I was feeling and I certainly did not like the person who had a melt down, that was so unlike me and I did not want to have that happen again.

So I found an IC, it was scary and hard to make that call, cuz once I did I had to admit to myself that I needed help. And I will tell you that it has saved me, it has been a slow progress as I had alot to say and still have alot to work out, but it is someone who is listening to you and helping you to work thru your shit, helping you to get stronger and also someone who is not a friend or family member that you feel you need to unburden to.

So yes... after that long post.... I highly agree that if you are still staying and don't want to leave (you still might leave) but do go and start talking to someone, a professional. And let them help you work thru what it is you want. The A very well could have been a deal breaker for you and that is OK, I just feel that this person can help you work thru how you want to pursue the next few years until you do make a decision.

Might I ask, did your wife ever seek any help on her end? Even if you end up getting a D at some point I feel IC would be good for her as well, but only if she wants to seek it out.

Take care of you.

[This message edited by realitybites at 8:03 AM, February 2nd (Saturday)]

11 years here, feel the same way.

but my advice is to get out and run far far away.

About 13 years for me too. Don't know how old you are but I do know sex drives go down and performance ability decreases. Fortunately we don't really have that problem but part of it is nature, not your wife, at least that is my guess.

My H and I have gotten closer and closer every year. Sorry for your experience but I must present another perspective other than you blanket advice for everyone who is deciding whether to R or not.

My H and I have gotten closer and closer every year. Sorry for your experience but I must present another perspective other than you blanket advice for everyone who is deciding whether to R or not.

😊😊😊😊

Hey Clint, so much of what you say resonates. No blueprint can satisfy every situation, but I've an acquaintance who stayed in his marriage for the same reasons. I've turned to him for his take because of my own situation. He's described his approach thusly.

"I know I'll never marry again and I've come to realize that I prefer the social company of men anyway. Hence, I seek circumstances that put me in the company of buddies, golf, camping, sport getaways, clubs, etc. The wife is but a roommate and I'm no longer bothered by the absence of a bond because I keep myself busy otherwise. And I'm no longer constantly off balance trying to read between the lines to interpret whats said because I don't care."

Frankly, he appears serene and at peace. It appears to be working for him and, at the very least, its an alternative to consider. You know, finding some measure of happiness.

Reconciliation does not work if one of the following occurs:

1. The WS doesn't do the work.

2. The BS doesn't do the work.

I am curious to know if the BS on this thread who say they are suffering have done IC? And has the WS done IC?

I don't know if I have ever read of a remorseful WS doing the work and going to IC reconciling with a BS who is working on themselves and going to IC where it does not work out. And if it exists, it is the rare exception--but at least both partners can say they did all they could.

If a spouse skips IC or doesn't really try, they can never proudly claim that they did all they could to save the M.

I have two different male friends (they are actually my H's friends) who recently got divorced and only then started going to IC. Both say that their greatest regret is not working on themselves before it was too late.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 12:11 PM, February 2nd (Saturday)]

I knew deep down when it happened that this breach of trust would not be repairable, but I thought I could fake it till I made it.

I think this is what’s at the crux of it all. No matter external circumstances, life becomes really difficult, painful, untrustworthy when we are at odds with ourselves internally. I lived in that place for a very long time too.

I get why you didn’t leave initially. Finances, kids...so many decisions in life are not one dimensional. It’s easy to look back on things and think we should have chosen differently - but we have to also remember that we make what seems to be the best choice at the time. Of course those choices are going to look different when we are evaluating them through lenses that have also changed. I think it’s probably fair to assume that the concerns you have around divorcing now don’t look the same as they did 13 years ago. Things change, people change, WE change...it’s oerfectly logical to make a decision and “see how it goes”. It’s not fair or helpful to later evaluate the actual outcome of that choice with an imagined outcome had you made another choice. Just like you couldn’t have foreseen this outcome THEN, neither can you NOW foresee the outcome of the road not taken. IOW, you can’t compare. Trying to do so will leave you in exactly this place - having made the wrong decision now vs the best decision then.

Make sense? This is probably a large source of your current suffering. It would seem to me that as your current external circumstances are changing (ie, kids almost grown) then so too is your clarity for your next best direction/decision. Of course it’s going to look this way now...but that doesn’t mean it SHOULD have looked this way then. Ok...so you’re reevaluating your marriage now - without these other aspects. You gave it the benefit of time as a by-product of those other fundamental aspects of your choice to stay. Now after all these years you find it still unrestored (for whatever reason), so you still make what is the best decision at this time.

When you can view it through this perspective you come into

your most power - which is always in the NOW.

[This message edited by truthsetmefree at 12:59 PM, February 2nd (Saturday)]

You gave it the benefit of time

People often say here that time in and of itself cures nothing. Maybe try doing some work?

I understand your point, OIN. I can’t speak to whether this would benefit Clint at all. Or if it would benefit him, if it would best serve him while in it when out of the marriage.

However, I’m not sure why this is even a point based on what he has posted. From my perspective, I don’t necessarily see any place he is operating at an obvious dysfunction - beyond just what he has explained about his feelings regarding the marriage, which I don’t necessarily think is abnormal. He made a decision based on other factors. They weren’t aligned with what he most wanted (but couldn’t have). And now as they become less a factor, his other feelings are now ready to be addressed. From my perspective, that seems pretty normal. The most “egregious” aspect is his blanket advice to others to essentially “just run” - which I see as merely a way to deal with some of the grief from the losses he has been suppressing to be able to make the best of his given situation/best choice available. Maybe some work there??

What else am I missing?

I think Clint did plenty of work in order to reconcile himself to his circumstances in the aftermath of D-Day. But as with all other things in life, appropriate work is contingent on the problem at hand. He needed a specific set of work to get through the trauma and accomplish his stated goals: raise his kids, keep his stability, keep from getting nuked financially. By all accounts, Clint's relationship "worked" in the context of his goals for several years.

Now life is changing, and there's a different set of work that may need to be done because the circumstances have altered. When life changes, you re-evaluate what works and what doesn't. Even outside of infidelity, that leads to a bit of anxiety and distress.

"Doing the work" doesn't mean the relationship survives forever, because the value of the relationship is also contingent upon the end goal. At the end of the day, what infidelity accomplishes is making it easier to sever the ties that bind when goals and circumstances change. Infidelity disabuses the betrayed spouse of the illusion that they owe their betrayer anything in the eternal, til-death-do-us-part sense. Again, the "one flesh" concept is demolished in favor of contingency.

In other words, I don't think Clint's issue is really infidelity related at its core. It's just normal life. But where "normal" empty-nesting and mid-life aging is fraught with mutual obligations, trust, and shared history, people touched by infidelity have (often) spent years navigating life on their own and healing in isolation. They don't carry the same obligatory weight or "essential" quality of relationship maintenance, because they've been emotionally independent and survived it successfully. I think it's natural (and healthy) at crux points to look at whether or not the relationship still works and is worth the continued maintenance.

If I voluntarily leave my job after 13 years, nobody looks at me and says, "That guy must not have done the work if he's leaving. He should have tried harder and then he could have stayed until he retired." What they conclude is that I did my level best at that job for however long I stayed there, acquired the skills I needed to be successful at what I was doing, and when I moved on, it was because I wanted new challenges, a better salary package, or just to expand my opportunities and try something else that might bring me more (or different) satisfaction. Choosing to leave long-term employment is scary, and something that should be considered carefully, but unless you're getting shit-canned, people don't generally conclude that you must have failed at your job, and that's why you're leaving.

I don't see marriage as being much different. But then again, I'm also a BH who didn't do IC.