SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi, Clint. I am sorry that you are still feeling the effects of infidelity 13 years post d-day. That is a shame. I feel there are probably many in the same position, although the way they may handle it won't necessarily be the same as yours. Everyone is different. How we process, how we feel. We need to have space for everyone.

I will share some of my perspectives on being 10 years post d-day this March and comment on some of what you shared.

Maybe I need counseling, but not to save the marriage.

Yes, maybe. I have had IC off and on for many years for different specific issues. What I went to IC for was to get clarity on what I was feeling and to pinpoint what it was exactly that I wanted. Many times I have found that I hide (?) what I really want. That came (comes) oftentimes from being a co-dependent. It really is hard to overcome being co-dependent. For me it is a lifelong battle but it does get better when I work at it. Many times I only needed one session with an IC to help me clarify what I really want and what my goal was or needed to be. Other times, it took a few more visits. Some go to IC to be fixed and that is valid, too. I never looked at it like that but I suppose I was fixed to some degree. KWIM? BTW, I don't understand the pushback on the posters here that agreed with Clint that he could benefit from IC. He was the one who originally suggested it. They weren't off base.

Call it a vent or what you will, but my advice is to get out and run far far away.

Okay, so I am not beating you up, or judging you, but this is just wrong. Being that you are 13 years post d-day, I would have thought that you may have realized that what is right for you isn't necessarily right for everyone. When I came to SI I was extremely fragile and vulnerable. I mean, mentally I was not in a good place. I was on the very edge of curling up in the fetal position and closing down. I don't know if anyone can relate to that or not, but it is the only way I can describe it. No, I didn't want to kill or harm myself, although I wouldn't have minded not waking up. But, I was on the edge of a very scary place...it felt like an empty, a big crack into something different. A nothing. And, I wanted it. To float away.

When I found SI it really was a literal lifesaver to me. At 8 months post d-day I finally found something I wanted more. And that was understanding and hope. I clung to stories of hope for marriages. I felt I had to divorce my WH. It really was the only way I knew and how I conducted my life. When I had been previously betrayed by various people, those people were banished from my life. I mean cut off, and cut off quick. No room for toxic people. No place for redemption. Even my father was gone from my life for a few years. How could I continue to respect myself and live up to my own expectations and stay married? I felt I wanted to stay married but thought I had to divorce him. It was a battle within myself for a couple of years. My MC, early on, gave me a couple of IC sessions and she was able to help me clarify what I wanted and what my long term goal was. That being said, I still had my doubts for a couple of years. Not to mention the yearning for justice.

Anyway, your generalized statement

my advice is to get out and run far far away

would have been devastating to me when I first came here. I really feel we have an obligation to not project what we feel and want onto everyone else and their particular situation. As much as we all have in common, we are all very different and so are our particular situations. Words do have an impact on people. Even from strangers on the internet. We are devastated, lost, vulnerable, wounded, raw, desperate, hopeless, alone, cold, brokenhearted and broken to a degree we weren't aware existed. We do not have to be strong. all. the. time. That is why I leaned so heavily on SI. They allowed me to be fragile and weak and held me up.

I don't feel that every marriage is a good candidate for reconciliation. I don't feel that every marriage needs to end in divorce. I do feel that infidelity is a dealbreaker for many. Some know that fact immediately and some take years to come to that realization. Maybe, IC would help with clarity right away, but that isn't always the case. I agree with a poster here that says IC is not a panacea. I also agree, as many wise posters pointed out, that being a BS means you have to do the "work". Yeah, it isn't fair, we don't deserve it, and we didn't ask for it. But, it is what it is. It takes work to heal. No matter the road you take, you need to heal. Work on healing. When we heal, or on the healing journey, we make better choices for ourselves. Healthy choices. Not saying we still don't make some mistakes. But, in general, when we start healing, we feel stronger and in a better place to make, sometimes hard, choices for ourselves.

I feel it is valid to give yourself some time, too. A BS does not have to make a decision right away, either. BS's need to give themselves time for various reasons. They really don't need to justify it, either, unless there is abuse ongoing. If you want to wait until your children are out of the house; you need to get your ducks in a row; you just don't know what you want, that is your right to wait and choose. Although, if you are continuing in a marriage, you have kind of made a choice, at least temporarily. And, one needs to make the best of the situation for everyone involved. Again, BS needs to do the work.

Some BS's here seem to put on a pedestal those BS's that instantly know it is a dealbreaker and get divorced. I neither admire nor disapprove their choice. It is their choice. It is how they are wired. Why would I admire someone just because they are wired a certain way? It actually seems impulsive to me or reactionary, but it is because I am not wired that way. There are people that just know that it is a dealbreaker and they act on that.

Hopefully, when you look back on this time, Clint, I hope you can have grace for yourself and also that you, hopefully, didn't waste the past 13 years. I don't know if you did or not waste the past 13 years, as I really don't know anything about how you spent the past 13 years. However, if you were a good father and present in your children's life, I would definitely say your time wasn't wasted.

My WH was immediately remorseful. He was willing to do "whatever it takes". However, neither one of us knew "what it took" for many, many months. Really, not until I found SI did I realize what I needed and what it was going to take. I wanted to reconcile because I loved my WH still. I gave him a chance at reconciliation because we still had a child at home. At 10 years past d-day, I am happy we reconciled. I always knew that people could redeem themselves, but I never cared enough about anyone (except my Father, I guess) to be that vulnerable with them to give them a chance at redemption. I am glad I gave my FWH a chance. Is our marriage perfect? Heck no. But, now we know the pitfalls and how to avoid them. When we realize we are slipping back into old ways, we give ourselves a check up and get back on track. Marriage is work. It isn't a destination, it is a journey.

Edie mentioned way back on page 1 this:

Forgiveness is for you, not her.

Many have feelings and opinions on what "forgiveness" is and if one needs it or not to reconcile. Personally, I don't waste my time on worrying about forgiveness. I either forgive or I don't. It is organic with me. I certainly don't agonize over it. However, I got to a point in our reconciliation journey where I had to make a choice. Did I want to be happy or did I want to be right? Meaning, I can hang onto the wrong my FWH did to me and be "right" or I could let it go and be happy. I chose to be happy. Which is what I think Edie is talking about here. I chose "happiness" or "forgiveness" for me. For me, it took too much energy and negativity to be the "right" one. It was dulling the colors in my life to be viewing everything through the lens of being a "BS". It was only hurting me to see the "shit stain" of infidelity on our marriage. I was able to see beyond that. I get it, for some it just isn't possible to see past the shit stain. That is how you are wired. My being able to choose happiness certainly seems simplistic and it is in theory. In truth, it took time to get there. And, for those that are wired differently it just isn't possible. I am just sharing my story and journey and trying to give hope to those that may need some. That life can be good, that reconciliation works, that infidelity doesn't always have to be a stain on your marriage, that there is life, happiness and normalcy beyond this.

P.S. For those that don't know me, I have my story on my profile page, if interested. Its been a long and bumpy journey, but I have healed. You all can, too. Peace and Serenity, brothers and sisters!

Edited: to add/remove words so it makes sense

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 4:53 PM, February 6th (Wednesday)]

SisterMilkshake,beautifully written. This site should be about support and advice ONLY when specifically requested. I too would have been devastated hearing someone Telling me to run for the hills early on. It’s insulting and quite frankly, sad that after 13 years some people still do not have the ability to empathize and realize that all affairs, people, wants, desires, and needs are unique to individuals and what is right for one will not be for another.

Lovely post, Sister. Haven't seen you posting much lately. Good to see you.

Clint, I think I speak for not only myself but everyone on this thread: we want you to be happy. And all options to accomplishing that are open to you, of course. But taking a little time to get to know your feelings, your wants and needs, whether D is a sound decision for you personally or not will only help guarantee your peace and happiness. It should feel like a support for you in the process, not a road block.

Best wishes to you.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 5:36 PM, February 6th (Wednesday)]

I feel same as Clint, but i really cherish the years spent seeing my daughter grow up.

After 10 yrs of some form of R I find a pic sent to another man on her phone, so my view is skewed.

Sometimes if you get dealt a really bad hand it's better to fold instead of trying to play it out.

^^^^

Yep. Sometimes it’s not nearly as complicated as we make it.

I do not understand those who say, "take some time and figure our your wants and needs" when you feel like this.

What I didnt bank on is how it would sour my disposition and outlook on life in general. My personality changed. I've aged dramatically when you look at pre affair pics of me. I almost became a social recluse, and have never really regained my old footing in that manner. I feel like my marriage still has the outline of a shit stain on it..faded over the years..but I can still see it. It changed me into something I dont like very much.

I'm not overly friendly with my wife. We exist, go through the motions, but it feels hollow for me. I'm unable to maintain an erection for her unless i take a pill, but even that is far from a sure thing. I get up in the middle of the night wondering how the fk I ever got into this position

The slow death.

Advising anyone to stay when they feel this way during and after 13 years is the real projection. He is not that kind of guy. This will send him to an early grave. He is already half dead.

Honestly the best advice is to save what remains of the rest of your life. After 13 years, expecting any counselor to say the magic words to fix this marriage is delusion.

Save yourself. You gave it your best. It is time to go.

[This message edited by 66charger at 8:53 PM, February 6th (Wednesday)]

expecting any counselor to say the magic words to fix this marriage is delusion.

Such a shame to see a positive and enlightening endeavor like personal growth through IC be completely mischaracterized.

People all over this board--both BS and WS--are learning and growing through self-reflection and increased awareness, and it has absolutely nothing to do with "magic words."

Advising anyone to stay when they feel this way during and after 13 years is the real projection.

Not sure if you are directing this post at me, 66charger, but in case you were, I don't feel you really understood my post at all.

I feel Clint knows what he needs to do and what he wants to do. I only encouraged him to work on healing as it is quite clear he has not healed.

My husbands post was not to people all over this board. It was to Clint. Counseling and reconciliation are beneficial to some, but when we focus on the individual and his words, his pain, HIS LIFE Where is the mischaracterization?

My husband and I read, we do not project. This is a sad story that needs to end. For both parties.

There is nothing left to be gained when your life is dripping away.

[This message edited by 66charger at 11:24 PM, February 6th (Wednesday)]

Did I want to be happy or did I want to be right? Meaning, I can hang onto the wrong my FWH did to me and be "right" or I could let it go and be happy. I chose to be happy. Which is what I think Edie is talking about here. I chose "happiness" or "forgiveness" for me. For me, it took too much energy and negativity to be the "right" one. I

Hi Sister 👋 😊

Yes, thanks for that, I do wholeheartedly feel - and was indeed trying to say - that our disposition is completely our choice to recover and construct (even with our genes, it’s quite constructable) and in our gift - to ourselves.

Thank you also for highlighting what was also my own concerns with the OP’s generalised and in my view ill-considered advice to everybody to run away fast as you can, advice which needed balanced with others’ perspectives.

I don't think that running for the hills is EVER the wrong choice after infidelity. There is no question that D is acceptable after infidelity. I think that sometimes R is another good option. A great many factors go into whether or not R is a healthy choice.

Clint gave it more than a fair shot. 13 years? Let the man go, you guys, lol. IC may be good for him, but not every marriage needs saving. Clint needs saving.

our own self-rightousness and our belief that our way is the ONLY way to heal/get better.

But lets stop beating each other up and offer compassion.

We also don't get decide what the work is.

We don't get to determine what "spinning wheels" looks like.

We do not get to decide what another BS's reality is.

Well put...

Clint,

My brother, I do know where you are at. I'm 14 yrs out.

I'm sure you are like me, you've analyzed yourself and the situation to death so many times. Second guessed yourself a thousand times. High hopes and bitterness never makes a good recipe.

I'd set you down over a few beers and ask you a few questions.

Are you out of infidelity?

If you could set the affair aside for a moment (pretend it didn't happen), is she a good wife, mother, friend, companion?

Do you feel she can be trusted from this point forward?

Is she, and has she been remorseful?

What would it take to make your marriage better? I realize that, at best, it will be a repaired marriage. You cannot unbreak what was broken, only fix it best you can.

I think our situations are similar, at some level you feel this shadow that will never go away, the weight is always present. My wife has many good attributes, but I have never felt in all these years she did the work to fix herself, simply hoped that time would fade the pain she caused. It doesn't. That bitterness and resentment keep creeping back every single fucking day.

I will admit, even though it wasn't MY job to do so, I allowed it. I never pushed her to do the hard work. She never brought up or discussed the A, or my continuing difficulties that were the result. No news was good news to her. It was tolerable. Tolerable was still better than divorce, but both is still a failure to me.

Last year I decided I had to do something. I was very much in your position right now. I wasn't going to live the rest of my years like this. Tolerable wasn't good enough.

We were driving down the road and I looked over at her and told her, "We have to talk."

After all these years of rarely discussing the elephant in room, she burst into tears and asked if I was divorcing her. Honestly, that shocked me that she leaped to that conclusion from such a simple comment.

I hadn't realized, ( you know, I really did realize) that our communication had broken down to that extent.

I explained that I refuse to live this way any longer, something was going to change, divorce was on the list, but not my first option. I explained to her what I really wanted in a wife, and that I didn't see her putting forth the effort to fix herself to the extent I though was necessary. The affair was on her, fixing herself was on her, and there was no way I could come to terms with the pain she caused until that was done.

She just didn't know how to do that. Last week I saw a post here ( thank you SI) about online counselling. Sounded a little flakey, I've never been keen on therapy, but then again that's kinda what SI is for me. If nothing else, it opened up an opportunity for her to discuss things with somebody, anybody, that might expose why and what happened, the pain and consequences, and with any luck, a way to deal with it in a way that we both could live with. I have no idea if it will actually help.

I built a wall of indifference around me, so I could be safe and survive any onslaught. That wall also trapped me inside. At some point, you have to tear some of that wall down, lower your shields, and trust you won't take a spear in the neck. That's a difficult thing to do, to put your self at risk again.

While it isn't my fault this happened, it isn't my job to fix her, it is my job not put up barricades in her path.

And maybe I'll walk behind her with a cattle prod, just to keep her moving.

Hoping for the best for both of us.

[This message edited by twisted at 4:26 PM, February 7th (Thursday)]

Dang twisted, long time no read. Like a reunion of BH! WAL too!

Glad to know I am not the only guy not feeling it. Told mine last week I wanted out, she is seeking counseling now. Too little too late probably but we shall see.

We also don't get decide what the work is.

Really? Because we tell WS what "the work" is all the time. And we tell them when they're not doing it.

I really wish I could feel this. I'm one of those men who keep forgiving and keep wanting to make my marriage to work. Even after my wife having a baby with another man and me trying to make sure I stay her legal father, I still want to give my wife another chance. She is doing all right. I'm slowly letting go. But some days I just wish I could feel angry, feel some kind of emptiness, then maybe I could be happy.

I can relate to what Clint has shared, as well as some others that are many years out.

My first marriage lasted 13 years. XWW had multiple affairs. I attended individual counselling as did she. Marriage counselling as well.

At one point my therapist told me to run for the hills. I took her advice. That was 21 years ago. My children were 12 yrs and 7 yrs old at the time.

My oldest (DS) decided to come live with me, at the time of separation. My DD decided to live with me at 16 yrs.

Today, I have a strong relationship with both children and have 2 grandchildren as well. My XWW has never seen her grandchildren. My son wants nothing to do with her, my daughter keeps in loose contact with her. I have not seen nor spoken to her since our last court date 18 years ago.

Absolutely no regrets on that one.

My most recent relationship also ended from infidelity. It was a common law relationship, later in life and there were no children from this relationship. I did not piss around with IC, R or any other bullshit. I got my ducks in a row, which took me 9 days. I then confronted and within the hour was out of her life. That was a year ago on Feb 13th. Again no regrets.

For me, infidelity is a deal breaker. I discovered that when my first marriage ended. I tried the IC, MC etc. Perhaps my XWW was not remorseful, I am not sure, don't really care, and at this point it doesn't matter.

What does matter, is I moved on with my life, did not hang around and be regretful of wasted years of being a adultery cop, checking on the WS, and all that crap.

I agree with Clint to a certain extent, all new BSs may want to seriously evaluate what the future will look like post R. Unfortunately, a new BS is in no frame of mind to do this effectively.

My hat is off to Clint, to share what his life is like now. Thank You Clint, this reinforces the decision that I made long ago. For me it was the right one, as it was just a year ago as well.

This thread...smmfh. Like a guy isn't allowed to feel how he feels, and if he does, well, he just never really tried to R and it's all his fault. Let's just overlook the fact that the one person he was supposed to be able to count on fucked him over. It's HIS fault for not loving her anymore.

And immediately after reading the original post, and then seeing the number of pages, I already knew what was happening as well as most of the people doing it.

Funny how when som someone checks in after a while saying they're happy, no one says, "I can't believe you took him/her back after he/she fucked you over so badly! You're a doormat!".

[This message edited by GoldenR at 1:17 PM, February 22nd (Friday)]