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I found out 12 days ago that my wife cheated on me. 4 years ago, we were going through a rough stretch of always arguing, but we both put in a lot of effort, and the last 3 years have been amazing. In particular, the last 6 months are the best we’ve ever had in 11 years of marriage, 15 years together.

She cheated twice with the same man, a friend and neighbor, a few months ago. She realized what she did was wrong, and ended it. However, they still continued to text, which is how I found out. It was not full-blown sexting, but he would ask her things like if she’d groomed lately, and other inappropriate stuff. I didn’t read much before she saw me looking at her phone, and I confronted her with what I’d read. She confessed everything immediately.

I left her the next morning. I needed to get away and try and think. Even through the relentless pain and anger, I knew that I still loved her, and that I would have to try and save our family (we have two kids under 10).

While I was gone, she went into a downward spiral. She couldn’t eat, couldn’t sleep, was disgusted with herself and so angry at the man she cheated with. I know someone who is caught can act this way to try and generate sympathy, but I know her well enough to know it wasn’t an act.

After time apart, she texted me that she was finally able to reflect on what she had done, and how it happened. She said she was manipulated, and that she thinks he’s a narcissist. Of course I saw that as a terrible excuse, but I started researching manipulative behavior and narcissism. I started thinking of random things he had done, all seemingly harmless at the time, that seemed to be setting the foundation for trying to cheat with her. One night, before this all happened, he gave her a ride home from a party that I’d left early, and they sat in the driveway talking for a bit. When she came in, she said “wow that was so awkward. He just all of a sudden opened up about how bad his marriage is, and how they act great in public but as soon as they go home, they go their separate ways, and he doesn’t think they’re going to last.” Although I thought it very strange that he would open up to her like that, as this is close to the beginning of all of us being friends, I didn’t think much of it. I see it now as his opening act.

The same day my wife said she was manipulated, this man’s wife and I had been texting each other for support, as we are both devastated. His wife tells me this is not the first time he’s hurt her like this, and goes into all this detail about how he manipulates her, makes her think that all the bad things he does are her fault, blaming her lack of intimacy or passion. She went on to say how he has all of our friends thinking he is the greatest guy in the world (they do all think this), and makes her feel that if she ever talked about his bad side, no one would believe her and she would lose all of her friends. She too told me that she thinks he’s a narcissist, and that she had been reading about it a lot that day. This was completely independent of what my wife said; I did not share that information with the cheated wife.

Based on this history he has with his wife, I don’t doubt he is a terrible, manipulative person. I also believe my wife’s sincerity that she loves me, wants our family back, and will never do anything like this again. What I am struggling with is the manipulation of her. Is it possible for someone to actually be manipulated into cheating, when they otherwise would not have been looking to cheat?

Like I said, she put a stop to it after two encounters, but the texting continued for a few months until I caught them. She is saying that when he would text, she would try to change the subject, even talk about his wife and how the two of them should try working things out. She says that he would get mad at her for this, and if she didn’t flirt back, he would ignore her for days, and not speak to her at parties we were both at. She was worried that if she didn’t keep texting, two things would happen. 1 – she would lose a great friend, who as I said before, is the favorite person of everyone in our large group of friends. And 2 – if he wouldn’t be friends with her, she would lose all of her other friends as well.

I don’t know what to believe. I have never cheated, have never come close to cheating, and cannot fathom a situation in which someone has my head so messed up that I’m not aware of what is happening, until after it's over. I fully believe this person is awful, and he does manipulate people, including his poor wife. But is it possible that he could successfully manipulate mine? She’s not hiding behind this as an excuse, but she is adamant this is what happened, that she wasn’t looking for it, and that there was nothing I had done to push her away.

Sorry for the long rant for my first post. Cliff notes: do you think it is possible an otherwise loving wife could be manipulated into this?

Cliff notes: do you think it is possible an otherwise loving wife could be manipulated into this?

Simply put--no. Unless she is mentally deficient in making adult decisions, she CHOSE to be manipulated. She was not a victim, but instead, an active participant.

First, welcome! You're going to get a lot of good feedback on this post because there are a lot of BH (betrayed husbands) here who've heard the same song. Let's start with this:

She said she was manipulated, and that she thinks he’s a narcissist. Of course I saw that as a terrible excuse, but I started researching manipulative behavior and narcissism. I started thinking of random things he had done, all seemingly harmless at the time, that seemed to be setting the foundation for trying to cheat with her.

She probably was manipulated. He might be a narc, or he might just be a horny asshole. It really doesn't matter, it's a distinction without much of a difference if you ask me. Most male AP (affair partners) have to "groom" the female into an A. Think about yourself, if you wanted to have an A, what would you have to do? I suspect the answer is something like I'd have to do, lie a lot, make up my feelings, act like I'm in a terrible marriage and this woman is my only love on the planet. Spin a fantastic story. And that's what many AP's do.

However, that said, the fundamental fact is, your wife should not have been listening to his made up (or real, it doesn't matter) sob story. She's just as much to blame as he is.

His wife tells me this is not the first time he’s hurt her like this, and goes into all this detail about how he manipulates her, makes her think that all the bad things he does are her fault, blaming her lack of intimacy or passion. She went on to say how he has all of our friends thinking he is the greatest guy in the world (they do all think this), and makes her feel that if she ever talked about his bad side, no one would believe her and she would lose all of her friends. She too told me that she thinks he’s a narcissist, and that she had been reading about it a lot that day. This was completely independent of what my wife said; I did not share that information with the cheated wife.

It usually isn't. My W's AP was caught a couple of times before. It's pretty typical, a lot of men who do this, in fact, all the men I know who do this, are skilled at it; they know the score, and they are in it to win it. Again, none of this excuses your wife, she never should have put herself in a situation where this could happen, but, yeah, your story reads almost word for word like mine. It's pretty typical. BTW, do not stop communicating with the wife. It's invaluable to cross check stories and drive out the truth. Get in her good graces, don't blame her husband, and if she blames your wife, just let it roll off your back. Your goal is information gathering, not getting into a fight and hurting someone who's already hurt.

What I am struggling with is the manipulation of her. Is it possible for someone to actually be manipulated into cheating, when they otherwise would not have been looking to cheat?

Your going to get conflicting answers on this. My thought is "yes". I'm close to 100% sure that my W never would have cheated and our lives would be just fine today if the AP hadn't started in with his lines. It was bad part of our M, we had a lot of stress, he knew it, and he pounced. And yes, she was manipulated into it. However, even if that's true for your wife, it still doesn't excuse her behavior or mean that she doesn't need to get her life together. Just because some guys are narcs and use women doesn't mean that your wife is an innocent victim! She needs to build up strong barriers around your marriage so that if this happens again, instead of sleeping with him, she comes over and says "That sleezy asshole from next door just hit on me again". It will happen again, another guy will take a shot at her. So you could try to control the guys (a fools errand) or you could try to make sure your wife responds the way she should (the right answer).

But is it possible that he could successfully manipulate mine? She’s not hiding behind this as an excuse, but she is adamant this is what happened, that she wasn’t looking for it, and that there was nothing I had done to push her away.

Yes, I do. In fact, I think it's more likely than not he manipulated your wife. But she let him. And that's the problem you need to deal with, not him. And yes, I very much doubt she was "looking for it". Think about your dating days. How often did you go out "looking for it" compared to how often were you sitting at home minding your business and your phone rang with someone chasing you down for sex? If your anything like me, I went out on "the prowl" a whole lot more than my phone rang with an offer of sex on the other end. The standard dynamics of male/female relationships still apply in an A, just even more f**ked up.

I do not believe her story. I feel she is minimizing what has transpired and in save her ass mode. Please note that I really do not know. Reading a post is not enough information to formulate an opinion.

Even if you give some credence to her story, your wife needs to figure out why she was so easily manipulated by a bullshit merchant into betraying you and engaging in infidelity.

She also needs to understand why she kept the ego kibbles coming by continuing an emotional affair with inappropriate conversation and sexting.

She has a lot of work to do before you should consider her a safe spouse. She must address her infidelity and what is missing inside of herself, help you heal, and rebuild the marriage.

[This message edited by Ripped62 at 10:17 PM, February 7th (Thursday)]

double post.

[This message edited by Buster123 at 10:44 PM, February 7th (Thursday)]

I hate to be blunt but I don't believe a grown married woman doesn't know right from wrong unless she has a serious mental illness, there's a reason why she HID this from you, she KNEW it was wrong het CHOSE to do it anyway, your WW KNEW this would be devastating to you, she WILLINGLY BETRAYED you in the worst possible way, please demand she gets tested for STDs (you should too), consult a D attorney to know your legal options and EXPOSE the A with ALL family and close friends, she needs to apologize to both set of parents for her huge betrayal, if you are considering R and it seems you do, she needs to send an NC FOREVER to OM, one that you approve of (no sweet goodbyes), if any of her friends knew of the A and/or enabled it, they need to go too, DO NOT allow them to remain "just friends" or the A may resume in the future, tell her to give you a written timeline of the A, she's now a proven cheater and a liar, think of the possibility this was not her first rodeo, she would have taken it to her grave, she's NOT remorseful, she just regrets getting caught. If you decide to offer her the gift of R, have her sign a postnup in your favor in case you later realize this was/is a deal breaker for you (that's OK too), or if she cheats again the the future, the road to R is very difficult even with a totally remorseful WW, it typically takes 2-5 years with no guarantees, she needs to commit to intense IC for months to find out her "whys". Do not allow her to rugsweep this, if you do it will backfire in the long run.

It always takes two to tango unless it's rape which this clearly isn't.

While her AP is a part he was taking what she was freely giving him. She is the main culprit here.

You want badly to believe her but you need the truth.

Sorry you're here. If you hadn't caught her it would still be going on. There would have been more sex involved as well.

Sorry you're here.

She was worried that if she didn’t keep texting, two things would happen. 1 – she would lose a great friend, who as I said before, is the favorite person of everyone in our large group of friends. And 2 – if he wouldn’t be friends with her, she would lose all of her other friends as well.

So him and his friends are worth more than you or her marriage? Geeze.

They are all enemies of your marriage. If you should try Reconcilliation they have to be banned permantley for you to stand any chance.

In particular, the last 6 months are the best we’ve ever had in 11 years of marriage, 15 years together.

She cheated twice with the same man, a friend and neighbor, a few months ago. She realized what she did was wrong, and ended it. However, they still continued to text, which is how I found out

So she was cheating during what you consider to be the best 6 months of your M. And she had sex with him twice and then she ended it but continued an emotional A until you caught her.

It's not unusual for the WS to minimize the A and blame the AP. As a grown married woman, she knew what she was getting into and continued contact with him. Really they were probably both manipulating each other.

Most WS lie about the number of sex encounters and the nature of the A. You may want to ask her to take polygraph to confirm her narrative. The falsehoods further kill chances at successful R (if you want that) so it's worth it to make sure you have the full truth and understand exactly what you are dealing with. It's important for your healing that you know you are operating with all the facts and that you are not being manipulated by your WW.

[This message edited by whattheh at 11:10 PM, February 7th (Thursday)]

I'm finding this thread interesting - I haven't cheated or been manipulated into doing so, but my husband has and I am beginning to wonder whether the OW did so deliberately. As usual after 16 years, tough jobs and kids, living abroad so no support structure, the marriage hit a crisis. But we were hanging on in there. A women in his work place (with two tiny babies) had separated from her husband, wasn't liked in the workplace and having a tough time. She resigned a couple of times so he took her for dinner and next thing you know he's moving out with no explanation. I only found out about the affair as she was publicising it at work, colleagues were disgusted and made complaints. We agreed to return home together. Before our summer holidays he left us again with no explanation. Leg work found out she was back on the scene. We stayed in the home country as too dangerous to go back legally. They then separated. We had two holidays with him and both times we flow back to the family home there were calling cards for me - a bracelet (which could be a charity free be he is adamant about) and the second time she saw me walking the dogs, curb crawled me then I found roses in the letter box. Clearly I was shaken. Though he is adamant they were not together, it stopped me going on the family holiday and taking him up on his offer of living with us again for the kids. I then find out she is also relocating to our home country. He denies it is planned as originally she was coming with her husband and for whatever reason is now coming on her own. I'm beginning to wonder if actually she is also manipulating the situation - maybe she's some kind of bunny boiler?

I believe some people can be easily persuaded but that is no excuse. No matter how easily led or manipulated the person still knows right from wrong and still has their morality. It may make it easier for them to drop their boundaries but the main problem would still be those boundaries were never strong enough in the first place.

Your WW's reason for keeping texting is garbage, her main consideration should have been her family and not keeping AP as a friend. You know they will have to go NC now no matter how popular he is? You seem concerned about going NC as well but can you really stand by and watch your wife interact with him? You could also let the friend group know what he is like, he probably gets away with it because no-one confronts him.

Finally, I hate to ask but are you sure it was only twice? Twice seems to be the new go to number for WS to confess to when cheating physically, unfortunately it often turns out to be more.

It really depends on whether she is citing manipulation as a reason or an (blamehsifting) excuse.

If she truly owns her part, and sees how easily prey she was to a manipulative narc, then it is of course the logical next step to see explore the deficiencies in her that made her vulnerable to manipulation. For her to see the dynamic between her and AP in the cold light of day, a dynamic that does not reflect at all well on her, could be a sign of a growing self awareness that is essential for growth and recovery for you both.

Having suffered at the hands of a manipulative narc myself, one can feel incredible shame about it, it’s not easy to admit to.

It really though depends if she is using it to blamshift and minimise kept whether she is digging deeply and honestly into her whys, and it’s a useful realisation as part of that process.

A narcissistic AP is only part of the puzzle. The main things to concentrate on are why your wife decided to do this. Poor boundaries, poor self esteem, poor coping mechanisms, mental health issues, faulty thinking. The list goes on and on.

Understanding the full picture through IC and deep self reflection will help.

The AP in my situation displays narcissistic tendencies. Whilst it does explain some of what went on, it doesn’t explain why my fwh fell for her nonsense. That was up to him to find out.

One other thing I will say is do some research on narcissism and how to deal with it. They can be horrible as a scorned AP, creeping back into your lives, running smear campaigns and making you doubt your reality. By working on yourself you can take the sting out of some of these, but please be wary.

Your WW slept with another man. I think that there is more here. I don’t believe that she was manipulated into having an affair. That manipulation may have happened afterwards which makes more sense to me. He would then have leverage over her. There is no excuse For an affair.

My WH claims he was manipulated with the threats of being exposed to everyone he knows. She would break up with him and then he would go back , Each time he returned he was even more in love with her. This happened for years. Was he manipulated - maybe. Did he keep sleeping with her - absolutely. Was it his choice - absolutely. It is all fucked up.

Although my WH has shared many details, I feel that I cannot trust his perspective. All I know is he cheated and kept cheating for years. Be careful, you also have to assess her perspective. And he is a continued risk to your M.

With clarity she can look back and view the Affair as manipulative behavior by the AP. I’m sure she views him very differently now. Her blinders are off as the saying goes.

At the time she willingly went along and had the Affair of her own free will.

It’s similar to how a BS views the CS after infidelity. You start to see things very differently or with a more open mind. The BS stops making excuses for the cheating and infidelity.

See the difference?

Your wife was not forced into the Affair. She chose to cheat.

In hindsight she regrets it. But she was never not in control unless she was so drunk she had no idea what she was doing.

It’s funny how when guys hit on me I immediately get disgusted and back away. Because I know they have done this before and I am nothing special to them. It is obvious. And the old “my wife doesn’t love me” routine is so typical too.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 6:29 AM, February 8th (Friday)]

With clarity she can look back and view the Affair as manipulative behavior by the AP. I’m sure she views him very differently now. Her blinders are off as the saying goes.

I'd say this is dead on for my W. She looks back and sees his behavior and feels manipulated and disgusted by what she did. Now, I'll say, she never blamed him (but I do, he owns a lot of the A in my eyes; I know that's wrong, but it's just how I feel), but I think that it's pretty common that once the fog lifts and the blinders come off, a lot of WS's can see their AP for who they are and what they did. And, at least in some (in my opinion, most) cases, if your WS wasn't in the A for sex, they were manipulated. Because they didn't get what they thought they were getting, and they gave up something valuable (sex, their marriage, etc) and wound up with nothing at all. That's pretty much the definition of "a con job" and I think it fits pretty well in describing what actually happened during my W's A. So, speaking in broad generalities, people entering an A to start a new relationship, find a new love, find a new H/W; the vast majority of them will wind up feeling manipulated because they don't get what they wanted from the A and still have to suffer all the downsides.

An adult married woman decides to take off her clothes and let another man put his dick in her, multiple times. Now she's telling you she was tricked into it? And you're actually almost believing it?

By the way, she's telling you it was only twice, and only in the last few months? And you believe that too?

Dude, I have some really valuable bridge space to sell you, in New York City. Just send me $100,000 and I'll mail the documents.

Thank you all for your responses. This is a great community and I am glad I found out, although I wish I never had to.

I'm not going to go back and quote everyone, but want to address a few things that were said.

No Contact: she has already told him it is over. She has blocked every way he has of contacting her, and acting on her own, told our other friends what had happened. By doing this, she took the risk of breaking up the precious circle of friends she was so scared of losing, but also made it so there wouldn't be any chances of being at the same gathering as her AP. She didn't use the manipulated excuse with them; she simply told what they did.

If this manipulation happened, she needs to know why she allowed herself to be manipulated: We have had a lot of lengthy conversations about this. She knows she should have still avoided it, and can't see why she didn't. She has been begging for marriage counseling, and is willing to get counseling on her own as well to find out why she ever allowed this to happen.

I know that everything I said above could either be a complete lie, or she truly feels this way about saving things, but only because she got caught and is feeling guilty. Obviously, there is a chance we go to counseling, work towards recovery, and then this happens again. She is disgusted by this person, wants nothing to do with him ever again. Only time will tell if that is true, false, or temporary.

What I am struggling with is the manipulation of her. Is it possible for someone to actually be manipulated into cheating, when they otherwise would not have been looking to cheat?

I believe the answer is yes.

My W, too, was manipulated into her A. So what? She still betrayed me, and we experienced the damage that comes with betrayal. And she betrayed herself before me.

What internal processes allowed your W to be manipulated? Whatever they were, she needs to identify and change them. That's likely to be hard work for her.

The manipulation doesn't mitigate your pain or hers.

Let me answer with a story from my experience.

xOw1 was a friend of mine, her H was a friend and coworker of MrH. Very early into our friendship, she started talking to me about her M and how, even though they had only been M a year, the romance was gone. We had many talks about how the fairy tale turns real life fairly quickly and that Ms have ups and downs. I shared with her some of the ups and downs in our M. I told her that it's not always hills, you gotta keep going when it's a valley too. I also shared my insecurities during some of our talks.

I didn't know a few things:

-Her H shared M sex stories w/ MrH

-Her H had asked to partner swap

-Once he was turned down and we didn't respond to situations they set up (like watching the sex scene in Wild Things or stories of him watching her make out with a female coworker and her hiring a stripper to give him a "couch dance" while she watched) she began her campaign in earnest.

-When we had issues, she would tell me one thing and MrH another.

So for instance, one of my insecurities was how much I felt MrH flirted. We went out to eat together and afterwards, she asked me why wasn't I bothered about how MrH acted w/ the waitress. So I thought about it, and it DID bother me. I started a fight, and when MrH stepped out of the apt, she was with her H telling him how out of line I was. Then coming back in to me and telling me things to stoke my anger. We had multiple situations like this. She was highly manipulative.

Apparently the A started when she called MrH and asked him to come over to give her the guys perspective on her marital woes. Instead, she confessed she had feelings for him. He got up to go, telling her he loved me. She got up, pressed close to him, unzipped his pants and grabbed his penis.

Was she manipulative? Hell yeah.

Narcissistic? Almost guaranteed. When I called her after 2A to get some truths (7yrs later, even after admitting sex w/ xOw2, MrH denied sex w/ xOw1) it was STILL all about her. How he hurt her. How it took her two years to recover from the pain of him not leaving me for her (a 7yr M at the time compared to an A that lasted (according to MrH) less than one month.)

Was MrH a victim? Excuse my language, but f*ck no. He was M. He knew he was M. He should've kept his dick in his pants. End of story.

They cheat because they get a thrill, ego kibbles, distraction...whatever. They know it's wrong or they wouldn't hide it. She's not some ingenue, innocent in all of this. With the above situation, the fall out was more manipulation from the couple, trying to get me to screw the "B"H (that alone should've clued me in the A was PA and not only EA). I kept my distance from both and kept my legs together. They may have manipulated me into helping to drive a wedge in my M w/ fights. But they could not manipulate me into cheating.