SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

After WH's 11 year 'EA' (which I doubt was just an EA, I mean because COME ON! He was out of town. I don't buy the Just Friends bit with a single woman who he took to movies, dinners, etc because they used to work together and SHE bugged him to see her), and even after over a year of therapy, it's not the same. Okay, I rambled. Anger much? Anger very much.

I know. It's not supposed to be the same. The old marriage is dead, yada yada. But it's more than that. Am I alone in not feeling any love for the WS a couple years out?

Am I the only one who often feels disgusted about staying, even if it seems the WS is trying? I say trying, because how do we really know it won't happen again? Sure, the AP told the WS to F off, and that she really only saw him as a mentor and how DARE I accuse her because she's so Christian! (Because Christian single women show up at married men's hotels so they can ride in the same car to the nearby restaurants). And WH swears they never even flirted because THAT would have been cheating - dating without physical contact was still cheating, he says. Just not the cheating I think they did.

Right. Cough.

Am I the only one who thinks that if they can't come completely clean (and seriously, how many WS DO come 100% clean), that we see it as still being able to lie to us so easily - just as easily as before?

Am I the only one who thinks, "Sure, the WS will do anything now. They'll be remorseful. Sorry. Be dedicated to therapy. Say and do all the things to 'make it right.' Apologize. Write us letters, be attentive. But when the opportunity arises again, they'll just 'happen' to find themselves deeper into an "I want ego-kibbles and I didn't mean for this to happen!" Scenario?

Am I the only one who thinks long-term cheaters (regardless of EA or PA) are like alcoholics - sure, the truly dedicated will pass up the bar, but they still want the drink. Here, it's more like they will try to pass up the strange/opportunity, but we all know they still want it.

And why am I still wth him? Besides the NC letter, the signed post-nup, therapy, and a change in current behavior? Because of finances at the moment. I'm working on getting back into the work force.

Even if the WS does things they think/hope will restore a marriage, am I the only BS who doesn't think they'll ever get back the feeling of trust, passion, love, respect for the WS?

WS says because of FOO issues, he felt he always needed options. He always needed to feel other women besides his wife found him attractive and potentially available, even if he swore nothing would ever come of it - that it was a game of chicken or perceived "I think she likes me, but it's probably just in my head, but it still makes me feel good fantasy." His dad was a cheater - got his mom pregnant while he was married with 3 kids. His sister had a 12-yr affair with a married man.

For those who have WSs whose parents/other family member were cheaters, do you think it's a character flaw that'll just resurface?

I'm sooo sorry if I'm Debbie Downer. Maybe WS is truly as remorseful as he 'seems/says'. But looking back, there were red flags that I wished I'd paid attention to. And I'd like to think some cheaters learn their lesson and never ever even think about straying again.

But am I the only one with these thoughts?

think you know the answer...

polygraph helped

I would suggest not trusting only his words for a long time

and a polygraph

that'll get you that parking lot confession probably

sorry you are in the club - cause no - here you are far from alone to realize it's the lies that really kill the marriage

kills the trust

peace as you process

No, OptionedOut, you are not the only BS to have lost that lovin' feeling for you spouse. And, by the way, had to respond, in part, because I feel your user-name.

Am I the only one who thinks long-term cheaters (regardless of EA or PA) are like alcoholics - sure, the truly dedicated will pass up the bar, but they still want the drink.

This^^^ I can't get past it...

which I doubt was just an EA, I mean because COME ON!

This is why you're still angry and it feels like it will never get better.

R starts with the last lie being made truth. It does get better after that...

MERIDA - he failed 2 of the 3 questions on a poly HE asked to take. Question 1) Are you still in contact with OW? Passed with the answer No. Since she told him to F off, I believe this to be true. Plus, marriage police. Sigh.

Q2: Was there sexual contact? Failed. He said no. Reason? He says the whole test was a fail because that's what the examiner said - 1 failed question is an entire failed poly.

Q3: Are you still lying to your wife about the affair? Fail. He said no. This time, he said it was because he HADN'T come clean. I'd asked him about sexual banter and he originally said there wasn't any because they never did anything platonic friends didn't do (that she could have been a he and they'd still have gone to dinner and movies and just talked). He said that he made some off-color comments - the same that he makes to current friends, male or female, BUT he knew how it'd sound so he decided to lie at the time.

Trust. Without it, what do we have, really? When intimacy is shared with others, when the trust is broken, when cruel things are done and said, what do we have worth trying to salvage?

And thanks, everyone. I know I'm NOT alone, but I feel alone. You already know that feeling, too.

NOTHEMANIWAS - speaking from a bird of my feather, or WS? Maybe it's because I'm new, but I can't see your story.

Hi OptionedOut, bird of a feather it is. I've not shared my full story because it dates back 30+ years to her high school soul mate and would take up pages to share. Long story short, following Dday, I now understand that he's been lying there between us in our marital bed our entire marriage.

MAN - Wow. Ouch. I get it now. WH has two of those in his past as well. I guess ALL the BSs here were just another 'option'. Sigh. Sorry, all.

There's been zero contact with the high school sweetheart who dumped him (no, really. None), but I've heard about her for YEARS. And YEARS. Also heard about a different high school gf whom he bounced back and forth with for over 10 years. Dated her, dumped her for someone else, then dumped that one to go back to the first. After high school, says he hooked up with the psycho one for sex whenever he wanted because she was always willing (she swore that they'd get back together someday).

He admitted after the affair that he fantasized about them both (but not the AP). Yes, in THAT way. WTH? Why tell me that he put me in a fantasy line up and chose both of them to 'relieve' himself? Oh, and the excuse this time? He subconsciously knew he was treating me poorly so he 'couldn't' choose me. But he said the proof that he didn't do anything with the AP was that he didn't WANT to have sex with her and never even fantasized about her.

Wow.

Hence the name. I'm Optioned Out. Done. Just stuck until I dig myself out I suppose. Meanwhile WS is frantically doing everything he never did before. It just doesn't feel authentic, even though he's kept it up for almost 2 years.

I suspect it's only because the next opportunity hasn't presented itself. Yet. GEEZ! I do hear myself. I do. And I can't seem to help it. I think WS has a major character flaw that is exactly like an alcoholic, except he's an attention-seeking addict. THAT kind of attention seems to be both unfulfilling and yet some messed-up form of validation.

ALL - did our WS ever think of how others would look at them after such behavior? Is that the affirmation they sought? Did/do they think an apology and some behavior differences just make up for it all and that all is peachy now?

Gosh, no! I have felt/thought exactly everything you said there, most particularly:

Am I the only one who thinks that if they can't come completely clean (and seriously, how many WS DO come 100% clean), that we see it as still being able to lie to us so easily - just as easily as before?

Am I the only one who thinks, "Sure, the WS will do anything now. They'll be remorseful. Sorry. Be dedicated to therapy. Say and do all the things to 'make it right.' Apologize. Write us letters, be attentive. But when the opportunity arises again, they'll just 'happen' to find themselves deeper into an "I want ego-kibbles and I didn't mean for this to happen!" Scenario?

Followed by:

I suspect it's only because the next opportunity hasn't presented itself. Yet.

As at one point he was telling me he hadn't cheated with anyone after the PA, then agreed that he'd never again been in the same easy position, or had been propositioned by anyone. Later went back on this by saying he could have gone out to prostitutes or picked someone up in a bar while working away, but he's fundamentally lazy, so probably CBA. Whereas if someone came on to him directly... Who knows. Though I suspect if it was easy he'd take what was offered.

I'm not aware of any cheating in his family, but they're a weirdly uncommunicative bunch, so I probably wouldn't know anyway. What I very obviously now though, is that his family's lack of emotional connection with each other has surfaces in him, I didn't really register it before as he's worked away for most of our relationship, since about 7 years in. Contrasting our relationship before and after this point does make it very clear. I just thought it was a consequence of his difficult job but it seems to be a surfacing family trait.

[This message edited by Hickoryapple at 5:28 PM, March 18th (Monday)]

OptionedOut, yeah... Sucks... I didn't find SI until I was 2 1/2 years out from Dday. Made every mistake imaginable, pick me dance, etc. By the time that I found this place I'd already had that 'fuck this' moment where I began a hard 180. Didn't know that it was called that until I ran into SI last November. After a year of detachment on my part, it suddenly occurs to her to want to 'talk about us.' But by that time, I'd mentally 'optioned out' and have been simply acting the part that I need to keep the toxicity down. I'm cornered into cohabitation and so it's practical to keep the atmosphere on an even keel. I do my thing and keep the interaction to a minimum while acting 'pleasant' when I have to be around her. Sleeping in the guest bedroom. Getting much better rest, at least.

I didn’t know a polygraph was a real thing people do. Ohhh I’m all over that.

I don’t know if I’ll ever feel the same. He neglected me for so long a picked alcohol and this other woman that I don’t even think I’m in love with him anymore. I’m about to cut my losses.

Trust. Without it, what do we have, really? When intimacy is shared with others, when the trust is broken, when cruel things are done and said, what do we have worth trying to salvage?

I don't have an answer for you. But I grapple with the same thoughts. Even if I forgive the sex itself - he gave away what was special between us. He destroyed my trust. A trust he had 100% even through many deployments. The cruel words and actions, the lies, he can never take back. How does one move on knowing they have that in them??

Mine isn't. I feel exactly like you and I'm now 5 years out from False R so yeah past the healing deadline.

I try to focus on my happiness every day. That's all that really matters to me besides my kids.

I feel MUCH of what you wrote in your post.

Sad!!! I wish there was a magic button to turn back time and make it all go away.

I loved my life before, I hate it now.

I understand that you are angry and hurt about the betrayal. I remember when it happened to me that I couldn't be sure if it was and EA or a PA either but determining the truth about the situation was not the most important thing because either way he had spent time with another woman in an intimate setting and trust had been broken.

Once jealousy reared it's ugly head, followed closely by insecurity and fear it was all over for us. I left and I deeply regret it. If I had been willing to go to counseling with him and forgive him I could have rekindled our marriage vows and helped save our ten years of marriage.

You may want to consider your priorities and discover what really matters to you. Perhaps the two of you could get together and remember the wedding vows you made and recommit. If you can't resolve the issue in this relationship and you leave, you are likely to experience the same issue again in another relationship so you might want to try to resolve it in this one and save yourself further heartache. I hope for all the best for you both. I will be praying for you.

Nope. You are not alone. Every lie they tell, every secret they keep, kills the love we have for them. In these cases, trust never comes back and neither does a healthy relationship. And your right, they're like dry drunks. Detach some. Think on what you want. Figure out how to get there. Forget him and his issues and focus on you. You matter.

It took me years to feel loving toward my fCH again. It's not the same, but it's something.

As long as your CH is lying, you are not in R. He is not doing everything for R if he still has secrets, especially such a big one. You cannot love someone who you know is lying to you.

Have you told him flat out that you KNOW he had sex with the OW? It doesn't matter what he says. You know. You don't need proof or an admission. Although, you do have proof of sorts since he failed the poly on that question.

Forgot to add, a sober alcoholic does not desire the drink anymore. It's more than just passing up the bar. It's being around alcohol and not wanting it. If an alcoholic is still struggling with wanting the drink, they are not sober yet. They are just dry.

The truly remorseful, recovered cheater does not want the strange anymore. There are some who can't get there, but many can if they put in the work.

Yeah, he says he doesn't want the 'options' any more. But you know, he said he didn't want anyone other than me for 23 years. So those are just words.

He signed the postnup. Actually wanted to sit down, finish it and asked if after work one evening, if we couldn't go, have it signed.

But he still hasn't done what I've asked: show me that he won't flirt, that he won't minimize me in front of other women who seem flirty to him. We go to a few friends houses when they have parties. He needs to show me that he doesn't want his exes. And I have NO idea how he can prove to me that he is only saying and doing things because OW told him to take a flying leap sideways off a short pier when he sent her the NC.

I still recall how he defended her when she replied to the NC - stating that I was nuts for thinking there was something between them and that she was so Christian! That she wouldn't allow me to think of her in that way. That she had NOTHING to do with our issue of me not trusting him. And that SHE was hurt and deserved better 'even as a friend' standpoint. He told me that her response was because she was hurting at the moment and for me to understand that. WTF?

Sure. He may be sincere now because I'm the only chump around. Love of his life my ass.

OW is gone, but what did I win, exactly?

[This message edited by OptionedOut at 3:48 PM, April 3rd (Wednesday)]

I know it's not a popular opinion on this site, and I know there ARE exceptions, and I'm glad that there are. But I think for the most part, infidelity poisons the well. I think a WS can reform and have healthy future relationships, sure. But the one where s/he cheated? I think it's tainted.

And maybe I'm just saying this because my XWH (it feels SO GOOD to add that X now) was never really remorseful (he had a girlfriend well before our divorce was final, and had cheated on her within a few months of their getting together). But I tried, oh I tried so hard. And now all I feel about our marriage is relief to be out of it.

am I the only BS who doesn't think they'll ever get back the feeling of trust, passion, love, respect for the WS?

Darn good question!!!

Infidelity is like poison to a Marriage - excellent analogy by another poster on this thread.

In some cases the love and trust and passion do return. In some cases even though reconciliation has occurred it does not. Here is my two cents worth on that.

In some marriages the BS sees the changes. And feels the change from the BS. However in their heart the BS just struggles with feeling love and trust (rightfully so). They cannot break through that protective wall that is now surrounding them. They refuse to be vulnerable with their emotions.

I struggled with that for 3 years while we were reconciling. Due to a 4 year EA he refused to admit to which I knew was going on and was completely rug swept, then an EA turned PA 5 years ago that lasted about a year and this was a typical mid life crisis Affair and he was planning to divorce me - I had a hard time getting my feelings back for him.

But I did at year 3, not b/c of any reason except for me.

A YouTube idea by Will Smith called Fault vs Responsibility helped me. In short it is not our fault our spouse cheated. But it is our responsibility to to heal ourselves. The CS can only do so much to help the BS heal. The rest is on you!!

With that in mind I looked st our marriage differently. And I decided I was not going to live with one foot out the door b/c that is not fair to me. If I find evidence or suspect my H is cheating - he knows our marriage is over.

I have never given up my plan B. I hoard $ like crazy. That is my safety net - knowing I can walk out the door at any time.

But I stopped living in the past. My H has changed. I see it. 5 years later I can still see it and feel it. Is he perfect? No. But I see I am a priority to him every day. It shows.

It was hard to scramble back from hearing “I want a D” and ILYBNILWY for six months. But he regrets all of it. I can see he does.

But for me - I chose to move on. Does he deserve it? No! But I did it for me. I deserve happiness and joy. I deserve to live stress free. So I am.

Is it the same marriage? No. It never will be the same trust level. I cannot undo the damage and pain. But I can choose to not let it be a black cloud over my head the rest of my life - whether we D or R.

Think of infidelity like a car accident where you broke your leg. The accident was not your fault. But you were injured. And you have months of therapy to heal your broken leg. It may not heal 100% but you will do everything you can to get close to fully healed and recovered as you can. That is your responsibility to yourself.

I hope this helps you. Watch the video. It makes sense.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 6:12 AM, April 4th (Thursday)]