SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I also have to say I still do not understand why you quoted that song on this particular thread rather than the mans?

Sometimes I'm just ornery, for no reason. I once posted the "no bj's after the wedding" joke on a man's thread.

But I am NOT the source of the "balls drained/tummy full" comment. Even on my orneriest day I wouldn't say that on a thread directed to BW. I wouldn't even say that to a WW in the throes of post-Dday turmoil.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 11:01 AM, May 8th (Wednesday)]

Hikingout,

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. I am not arguing the truth or falsity, the right or wrong, of anyone's comments. I am fussing about the reactions to them.

A woman can start a thread wondering why men might resent being chosen because they are a good provider, and that is perfectly OK, it is “legitimate” for women to care about that.

Let a man suggest that looks, or sex, has anything to do with it, and watch out. This thread has “toxic masculinity,” “misogyny” (a couple of time), “haters,” “damaging” posts (and all apparently overlooked by some who have “read the fucking room.”)

Here's a bit of news: most men are average. Average intellect, average looks, average abilities. They are not going to be “great” providers. There is no BMW in their future. They are going to be unemployed sometimes. They are “plain” providers. Do women post about wanting a bigger dick? Nope (thank goodness). But wishing for a good provider is OK. Should men worry they will be cheated on if they lose their job?

I would have hoped this site would promote truth. But some men's truth is forbidden.

There should be a stop sign to keep men off of threads. Then you ladies could talk to each other and figure it all out. (Well, you could make exceptions for the men who say things you like. Perhaps men's comments could be vetted, first, by a panel of women, before they are posted.). Then there would never be discomfort; only validation and reassurance.

I wish the site could be searched for occurrences of the word “misogyny” and “misandry.” I'd bet a few bucks that my mention of misandry was the first.

but for a betrayed spouse who has truly given his or her all to a long term marriage, and who has relied on the integrity of his/her WS to, among other things, honor his/her marital vows

I think this describes most BSes.

NeverHealed, have you considered that the reason there seems to be a double standard is because one is about substance and one is about superficial things?

NeverHealed, have you considered that the reason there seems to be a double standard is because one is about substance and one is about superficial things?

Ahh, Coco, you made my point better than I could have.

I am not even a betrayed wife, but I found it insulting that someone came on and "warned" women that it's natural for men to want to cheat if they aren't going to "keep their balls empty and their stomach's full".

Want to cheat or cheat? That's a wildly important distinction, IMHO.

Let's flip it around. How would you feel about someone warning a man "Dude, if you don't tell her she's pretty, she's gonna find someone else to say it" (which, BTW, is something I've heard more than once from my friends). And you know what, it doesn't really matter how I "feel about" that statement because, in my eyes, it's true. I can hate the statement all I want to, but, if it's the truth, I better realize and and adjust my behavior. My W did cheat to get something she felt she was missing in our M, and that thing was "your pretty" (simplifying greatly). Yes, it was also because she was broken, and a million other reasons, but the thing the she was really after from the OM was "pretty" (words of affirmation). NOT MY FAULT. I get that. But it's also what she was cheating "for". And, while wildly unpopular, I'm convinced it never would have happened if I'd said more "pretty" comments, because she wouldn't have been so desperate to hear them from other people. Yes, I could be wrong, she could need 50 people following her every minute of the day fawning her with admiration. But I don't think so, I think she just needed more of it, and I didn't realize it or how important it was to her. I'm not going to reverse this analogy, everyone here is smart enough to do it themselves, and some (maybe most) will do it and realize "I am blameless, there was nothing more I could have done". Good for you, but that's not me. There's more I could have done. And my WW should have asked me for it. And even if I'd say "no" she still shouldn't have cheated on me, she should have D'ed me.

I think it's totally normal for women to cheat if their man's dick isn't big enough. Just like it's totally normal for men to cheat when they aren't getting sex. It makes perfect sense to me.

Lol^^^

Well said

I think it's totally normal for women to cheat if their man's dick isn't big enough.

Wait, wait... so you're saying that old line "its the stroke, not the poke" is a lie?

I would have hoped this site would promote truth. But some men's truth is forbidden.

Forbidden??? That’s a bit fucking dramatic. I wasn’t aware I had that power, I better get busy cause there are a whole bunch of people I’d like to make shut the fuck up already.

I encourage anyone to speak whatever fucking truth they like but I would also hope that they might consider the venue and the audience they were addressing when deciding the best way to go about expressing that truth.

If your goal is to further understanding, change minds or engage in an interesting exchange of ideas? Well then maybe dropping into a thread full of hurting betrayed wives and spouting off a bunch of shit that, in all probability, closely mirrors rationalizations and justification that their asshat wayward husband spouted off in the aftermath of Dday probably isn’t the best way to accomplish that.

Unless you are less interested in making a point than you are in fucking scoring one.

Now, if that’s the case? If you just want to kick the hornets nest so you can score a point for the Ol’ HeMan Woman haters club and turn yet another thread into the same old fucking battle of the sexes we keep seeing on here over and over again? Well then, you are well on your way. Mission fucking accomplished.

[This message edited by HoldingTogether at 12:00 PM, May 8th (Wednesday)]

I think we all have to evaluate whether we feel like plan B because that's the story we tell ourselves, or because it's really the case.

Absolutely.

I was always my W's Plan A. You know what? Being betrayed still hurt like hell.

Obsessing about being Plan B may be a stage many BSes go through, but cutting it short pays off.

Recovering from being betrayed requires processing the anger, grief, fear, and shame that comes with being betrayed. Obsessing about being Plan B keeps the BS in the role of Victim in a Drama Triangle. It also prevents the BS from processing his/her feelings and thereby delays healing.

If you feel like Plan B, it's probably your self-talk that's doing it - even if your WS has left. Change your self-talk, change your life.

Let the gender wars continue....

Also, I don’t think toxic masculinity is something that is intended to belittle men. I think OIN made a good point. Male emotional suppression, which is culturally promoted, is toxic to one’s overall health. You can’t just outwit your feelings.

The emotional impact is what devastated me about my WSs infidelity. I’ve very comfortable with my physical attributes, I’ve always accepted she would find other males attractive. But she was my best friend and that shit killed. I feel like an alien sometimes on SI because I never thought about the OMs dick or how good he was in bed.

Is it that I’m an outlier or is it toxic masculinity that prevents a lot of men from talking about the emotional impact?

[This message edited by KingRat at 12:16 PM, May 8th (Wednesday)]

I was at a party once and my good friend had just had a baby about 3 months earlier. Her husband made a remark about them hitting the gym to get “back into shape.” There were howls from other women and he defended himself by saying there was nothing wrong with wanting his “hot wife back.”

Well... I had to remind him (in front of everyone since he chose to humiliate her openly) that he was all of 5’7” and how will working out make him taller?

Crickets from him. Yes, he was *average.* He just forgot.

Neverhealed- you may not realize this but I spend a fair amount of time defending the men on this site as well. I do believe that it’s not okay for a woman to be there just for a paycheck. I also believe that men feel love through sex and women disagree with me on that.

I am not for either side regarding the other and reducing them down to what they can provide for the other person. Yes, we do provide for each other as a married couple - and at times not equally, and that’s okay if it’s been okay with the two married people. But “I am here for the bj’s” or “I am here for the paycheck to me are both unacceptable to me.

I speak up for both sexes. I don’t think the men here are woman haters and I don’t think the women here are man haters.

Rideitout - that really wasn’t what I was debating. I think in my situation we both let the marriage go. That was both our faults. The cheating was 100 percent my fault though. It doesn’t matter what he did or didn’t do. It had nothing to do with him being an overall good husband, his penise size, what he looks like, his behaviors, etc. just like staying has nothing to do with those things or husband paycheck or whatever.

Let the gender wars continue....

Well, I wasn't going to, but then..

I was at a party once and my good friend had just had a baby about 3 months earlier. Her husband made a remark about them hitting the gym to get “back into shape.” There were howls from other women and he defended himself by saying there was nothing wrong with wanting his “hot wife back.”

There ISN'T anything wrong with that, except that perhaps that guy "forgot" to lie to you/others. And the operative word there is "THEM" hitting the gym. Not, I'm gonna sit around and get fat while my wife, after a newborn, slaves away in the gym. I'd make that statement and tell anyone who "howled" to whine to someone who cares, because that's not me. Why would anyone be upset by this statement, I really don't get it? Shouldn't a husband want a pretty wife? Shouldn't they want to be in shape for each other and themselves?

Well... I had to remind him (in front of everyone since he chose to humiliate her openly) that he was all of 5’7” and how will working out make him taller?

Wow.. It won't make his dick bigger either, nice of you not to chuck that one his way. But, then again, it won't make his wife's vagina any tighter either, maybe I'll drop that one the next time a woman says "My H and I are going to the gym together to get back in shape after his surgery". The misandry just bleeds in this story. I'm pretty sure if I gave a "man talking to another man" version of this story I'd need to put on a flame suit even thicker than the one I already have.

Oh and butforthegrace- I didn’t lump you in with the other poster. More I was asking (maybe in too heated of fashion) if you agreed with him. Seemed like you were trying to bridge peace in that post and I think it just added gas at that moment. So your points are taken.

I think in my situation we both let the marriage go. That was both our faults. The cheating was 100 percent my fault though.

We're not really disagreeing, but I do have a question about this. First off, I agree, and it sounds a lot like my M. But, and this is going to be a hard question to answer; if HE hadn't let the marriage go (you did, you weren't working as hard, but he kept up his side) do you think it would have happened? In my case, I think "No". Let's say on the 1-100 effort scale, pre-A, I was putting in 25 and my W 25. She had an A and went to 0, I stayed at 25. But where I struggle, I'm convinced, if I'd put in 50, it wouldn't have happened. Or maybe even just 30, who knows. And I'm pretty sure if I'd put in 100, no way, it wouldn't have happened. I was slacking off, so was she, no doubt, and then total "slack off" during the A, but still, it's hard not to examine my role in it. Also, it's comforting to think "Just work harder, it won't happen again" because I control that. The "you can fix her" stuff makes me feel very hopeless, even if it's true, because it feels like a random walk. Put in 100 or 0, makes no difference, if it's going to happen, it's going to happen. I hate that.

RIO, I get what you’re saying in theory and I personally wouldn’t publicly shame the husband in question bc I don’t like doing that, however, you have to admit those comments are extremely inappropriate and go beyond just being “tone deaf.” He humiliated his wife after she just a fucking baby. The passive aggressiveness of “them” makes it worse. Unless his body significantly changed in the last year, “them” is a patronizing way of referring to her.

Why did he impregnate her if he was very concerned about how hormones would wreak havoc on how her body stores fat despite her dietary and exercise habbits? She carried around his child for months and is probably not even sleeping or functioning normally that soon after birth. I’m not saying shaming is right, but if you put someone on blast don’t be offended or surprised when it comes back to you.

[This message edited by KingRat at 12:36 PM, May 8th (Wednesday)]

RIO, I get what you’re saying in theory and I personally wouldn’t publicly shame the husband in question bc I don’t like doing that, however, you have to admit those comments are extremely inappropriate and go beyond just being “tone deaf.” He humiliated his wife after she just a fucking baby. The passive aggressiveness in those comments makes it worse.

Who knows.. The story, as told, is awful, IMHO. Maybe there's more to it, maybe the H was talking about his "fat wife" half the night. If so, deserved and I withdraw my complaint, blast him, he deserves it. But, for all we know, the H/W were talking about how excited they were to be able to workout together again on the ride to the party. That would be my W, she loves to workout and would super excited to be able to get back at it if she was unable to for a period of time. In fact, she'd be more upset about the body changes from pregnancy than I would, IMHO, because she's so active and athletic.

And yes, I could totally see myself saying that. And I stand by it, there's nothing wrong with wanting a "hot wife" and an in shape/athletic partner. The other women in that story are welcome to shame the man, but we should recognize it for what it is, misandry, and call it out as such, not hold it up as an ideal to blast the guy for being short/bald or something else he has absolutely no control over. That's repulsive behavior.

And no, I don't have to admit those comments are "extremely inappropriate". Unless we're talking about the women blasting the guy for being 5'7". Then, yes, that's inappropriate and uncalled for. As I put forth in my synopsis, we have NO IDEA from this story (and I'd venture a guess that none of the woman attack this guy did either) what the woman's feelings were about working out again. Believe it or not, some people to enjoy working out and having an athletic and fit body. She could have been beside herself happy to go the gym with her H again, and then you have a group of women tearing him apart and shaming him (and her, by proxy) for wanting to look nice and feel good for one another? What planet is that OK/accepted?

[This message edited by Rideitout at 12:46 PM, May 8th (Wednesday)]

Relationships are all optional - always. Everyone has choices and that doesn't go away when you marry (which is why there is divorce).

That being said, yeah I was Plan B, but the AP wasn't Plan A, she was (is?) Plan U, for Used. My WH's plan A has been him all along, and still is.