SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Maia, who said OP was an addict? Two affairs doesnt equal addiction.

I understand addiction. I have a few recovering addicts in my family. Close family. It is commonly known,and widely accepted that an addict is always an addict. They may be clean, having years of sobriety, and have gone from being an active addict,to a recovering addict. But they remain am addict.

Yet, you claim you used to be a sex addict. You didnt say you were a recovering addict. You said it as if you aren't one anymore. That strikes me as very odd.

OP, how are you doing?

I'm ok, I've been reading all along. I plan to sit down and answer questions, we've just had a busy week/weekend with work, kids went to Prom, a bonfire with kids and their friends last night and Mother's Day today. I appreciate that everyone continues to post.

Hellfire -

I do not struggle with the addiction anymore. I was an addict definitely.I shall not get too much into detail because it makes me sick now but if you ever watched the show Saving Grace I was much like the main character. I remember the scene where they marched out all her partners. I wanted to die seeing it because I knew my line would be worse. Lindsay Lohan in Georgia Rule. Same idea.

I believe I've been healed and can tell you about the moment it happened, in prayer. I was praying very specifically and was filled with a glorious light and ...it was gone. I have never struggled since with the compulsion.

most people aren't willing to accept that. and yes it is odd.

MR is dealing with something very like an addiction. If not an addiction. I knew her back in the day and I read her post. she might not agree with me. but its something I think most WSs who have long term issues have in common. The roots are much deeper. I do understand some of what she's dealing with.

I really don't care if you agree with me. :-) It's my perspective. Offered in love.

[This message edited by Maia at 12:57 PM, May 12th (Sunday)]

Childhood sexual abuse and your FOO issues very much have something to do with it all, of this I am quite sure. When you seek a therapist multiple times as you have stated, how have they helped you? Did you find a true specialist in childhood sexual abuse or did you just find someone who listened to you talk about childhood sexual abuse? Different kind of therapist.

I have never gotten much out of IC. I don't think I've found one that specializes in childhood trauma or infidelities, etc. I think I've always been nervous about facing my demons and baring my soul to anyone. I don't trust anyone.

The part was bored so you suggested pizza and a beer? You opened that window, why? What was going on in your life that you felt you "deserved" to have a secret friend again? What is it about the sneakiness of keeping a secret from your H that allows you to open that window into yourself? What are you so unhappy about with your married life and your kids (you are the one who has said they are difficult and one is a cutter) that deep down inside you feel you deserve to have a secret friend?

BH knew I had invited OM the first night. I was not being honest with myself about my reasoning for meeting him. Life was incredibly stressful at the time with work being terrible at that time and kids with their issues. I struggle with poor coping techniques. The original meeting was meant to be a carefree escape. I don't feel unhappy with my marriage necessarily, but I do feel the need to escape when things get stressful.

But the part where you admit you "like to control" things or that you "bulldoze another professional" is something where you feel you are smarter than them. You go but you just feel like you know more then they do.

I think it's based more out of fear. I'm scared to open old wounds and feel again, therefore, I steer it to more comfortable ground. I know it defeats the purpose.

Your BH probably has been angry, and why do you think or feel he never really forgave the first A? You say he has spent years being angry, in what way? I think it is important that you go down this particular line of thinking. Because you wrote it yourself and you are feeling it. So what does it mean to you?

I think I assumed he never forgave the affair because he remained quick to anger after that point and hadn't been that way previous to the first A. There was lots of yelling and just obvious anger. I can tell you that I'm not frightened of much, but I am terrified of anger. I was raised in fear in a very angry household and walked on eggshells waiting get screamed at or my ass beat. I withdrew and disappeared when I was scared...growing up and in my marriage. Again, obvious poor coping.

People in general who like to "control" their world, or lets just say "over control" things around can very typically be over achievers, they take on way too many things and they do that because they are talented and because they want to... but they start to silently resent it all inside. And like a slowly boiling teapot it will finally implode.

Yes! I take on too much and it builds until I cannot manage it anymore.

Do you have girlfriends you could have hung out with? When not working or with kids or at home what do you like to do?

I have girlfriends, but everyone is super busy and wrangling kids, work, etc. I also have a hard time maintaining long term friendships, I have a hard time keeping in touch and making time. Plus I don't let people in very often and keep them at an arm's length.

I don't have hobbies. I work and go home. At one point I used to exercise and walk for miles a day, but haven't got back in that habit...I need to because both my mind and body feels better when I do.

Why was your choice of having a friend be a male friend? How long have you been "messaging" him before it escalated? Did your BS know about the long time "messaging" of this friend?

The OM was the only person left from my childhood that I still had any contact with. There was typically a "Hey, what's going on?" message about every 6 months to a year. BH knew, I didn't hide it and it seemed completely benign at the time.

I think you like to keep secrets. Most WS, if they truly admitted it, just do. You know as well as any others that keeping any kind of secrets is an intimacy and relationship killer. I think deep down inside you have huge resentments regarding your BS, things you hold inside and then you feel you "deserve" to have an outside friend.

I don't think I like to keep secrets, I just don't think I trust anyone enough to let them in and know the real me. If there's a difference between intimacy and sex, I've never had an intimate relationship because I keep portions of myself walled off. I'm not sure about the resentment of BH part, either. I don't openly feel resentment of him.

[This message edited by ManyRegrets at 7:02 PM, May 12th (Sunday)]

How long did the affair last? Many months could mean anything, you've already admitted to taking it underground for more than a year.

Physical for just over 3 months. Occasional texting until about 8 months ago.

When did you feel your boundaries slipping? Was it from the first invitation for a beer one night when he was bored? You must have known this was not appropriate behavior, why not speak to your BH.

I didn't think boundaries were slipping the first night, but considering the messaging became daily after that my boundaries were not firmly in place. In retrospect, I should have obviously never gone, but at the very least backed away when the contact became so frequent.

I'll ask again, no talk of love, respect, caring, anything but your husband's anger issues in your opening post. Since then there's been (I believe) one lukewarm mention of love for your husband. Do you have any feelings for him or are you staying out of habit after a long marriage? It's hard to gauge with your writing style.

I love him as much as I'm capable of, and I do have feelings for him. I haven't just stayed out of habit, but I haven't shown him love in a very long time. We worked opposite shifts - him days and me nights for 7 + years and were like ships passing in the night for those years. It was a rough stretch with no time spent together and every second we were together was family time with the kids.

[This message edited by ManyRegrets at 6:26 PM, May 12th (Sunday)]

And then the "star-pupils" fail.

There are no "star pupils" in any of this mess. I brought up all the previous posts, etc because I really thought I was working and fixing last time, but I obviously didn't do the deep digging that was necessary.

I'm curious about how often you mention "making amends." Is this tied into your beliefs about love being transactional?

Maybe. I don't feel as though there's ever been "unconditional love" given or received. Even now, I was thinking about it, and thought of my Grandma, who is still alive and feisty as ever. She's never made any qualms about letting everyone know I'm her favorite. But she also makes it clear I'm her favorite because she likes perfection and I put on an act. Love is very much transactional in my FOO and is never freely given, but must be earned.

I'm not sure about the advice to initiate the divorce yourself immediately. I think it would be better to change your m.o. and let your husband be in control.

He would prefer me to file, but until one or both of us are there, I don't think that filing is the right choice. Once he's there, or I am or both of us are, it's only fair that I file.

Therapy, therapy, therapy. You need someone to guide you through these explorations. Neurons that fire together, wire together. You've learned to cope by escaping and controlling and it's as natural as breathing to you now. Let a professional help you unpack all of this and start from scratch.

I agree, and I have to be willing to face it head on. Escape has been how I deal with stress, and it's not effective.

[This message edited by ManyRegrets at 6:42 PM, May 12th (Sunday)]

Just pointing out your need for control and to be the first could have become your new addiction after your first affair.

No, I've struggled with control issues since I was a young child. I would not do anything unless I could do it to perfection. My parents were both star athletes, and there was the expectation that I would be as well. I refused to try out because at 10, I was petrified that I wouldn't be successful.

Looking back you could probably see them as acting the part but never being vulnerable and actually talking/being intimate with you.

I didn't feel as though I "was just acting the part". BH and I have always talked freely, I just haven't been able to bear my soul and be truly intimate with anyone, ever.

[This message edited by ManyRegrets at 6:54 PM, May 12th (Sunday)]

I'm hurting for you guys. Dont know what else to say right now other than. Find the truth.

As as for once a cheater post always a cheater pos.

Nope.not true.

(((Maia))) Thank you. You are a very kind soul, and have always been helpful. I need for sure to find the truth, you're right.

1) Start interviewing new IC's and tell them exactly what you've said here. Why you think IC has failed in the past. What you are looking to address. That you need someone to take control and to not let you because you think that is precisely one of your issues.

2) Do some research on your own about attachment theory and narcissism and see where you fit. (Yeah, this is FOO but seriously, that's where it's at for most of us so you may as well dive in as what do you have to lose at this point anyway).

3) Start holding yourself accountable for your actions. Yes, this means writing shit down. Do you have a problem with dishonesty (aside from the affair - do you lie about things that don't matter? Do you lie to make yourself look better?) If so, write down whenever you do that and why you did it. Doing something sneaky or something that you are unsure of? Write it down and make yourself explain the why to YOU...and then go back and read that shit later. If YOU can't personally stomach your "whys" then you know you've fucked up.

Really good advice, and I plan to follow through. The journaling is a really good idea, as embellishing, little white lies, etc are things I do. I've noticed it goes in spurts. I'm wondering if it's related to self-esteem, or stress level. Journaling will be a good way to track and acknowledge the issues.

[This message edited by ManyRegrets at 7:07 PM, May 12th (Sunday)]

I'm thinking you overcompensated and white knuckled the shit out of the first time and the years that passed before the second A. That you remained on the surface and that made you a candidate for a repeat. Change is hard and not everyone achieves it.

White-knuckling it is the perfect description. Oddly enough, I didn't have any temptation or feel like it was a possibility during that decade+ time. Maybe that's why I wasn't on high alert.

So, self-worth and healthy coping it's the only place I know where to start. My work isn't about NOT cheating again that actually hardly crosses my mind it's about building myself up to where cheating isn't even an option and that I have more self-respect than that.

The self-worth is *huge* for me. I've always felt like I have to put on a show because I'm not good enough to just be myself.

[This message edited by ManyRegrets at 7:17 PM, May 12th (Sunday)]

This probably *felt* like "the work" but it wasn't "the work" because you were concentrating on riding it out instead of really looking for whys and challenging your thinking.

I agree. I think I was so scared to unearth the true me, the real reasons, digging up the past still sounds absolutely *horrid*. Now I'm going to have to do it, whether or not I stay married because I cannot go on like this. I've been a shell my whole life...literally for as long as I can remember.

I think she is welcome to post, but would get more herself by reading. Someone with her personality does not need to become Star Poster II

I agree. I'm super embarrassed and know that my contributions would be unhelpful. I do think just reading alone has helped some.

I'm not exactly thrilled that MR is all of a sudden our current representation and frankly she shouldn't be, she is NOT all of us. She is but one if you take into count of 70,000 members at least here, common sure, but one.

I'm sorry. I don't want to be the representative for the WS. I don't think I am...i didn't dig deep enough and do what I needed to do. That certainly does not mean that everyone else here isn't healing themselves.

I think this statement is really the crux of the problem with this thread. If you aren’t willing or able to answer questions that members are naturally going to have, what is the true motivation for posting?

I don't have as much time as I did last time I was here - I was a SAHM for awhile during that time, now I'm not. I feel as though emotionally, I have to keep myself together 100% of the time due to the nature of my job. To me, that seems unlikely if I'm posting here during the week. I will answer when I get time, but I certainly don't plan to contribute like I did in the past. It is helpful to read. My motivation for posting is just to get shaken awake and moving in the right direction.

What was your motivation for this post? Was it to unload your own burden? Appease your husband? Maybe get him to pull the trigger for a divorce? Or do you really want to do the work? I think that might be a good place to start.

Unloading my burden = yes. I don't have anyone else to talk to.

Appease my husband = no, didn't post to appease him, but did start reading to appease him, and ended up posting.

Get him to pull the trigger for D = no, although D is still not off the table. I will post if one of us/both of us get to that point.

I need to do the work. I don't even know who my "true self" is. I've been winging it my entire life.

[This message edited by ManyRegrets at 7:44 PM, May 12th (Sunday)]

Psychiatrists do not recognize sex addiction as an actual addiction.

Giving someone a medical diagnosis (which does not exist- I think they use hyper sexuality not otherwise specified) does not make it better.

It, as with any other addiction, is still a choice made by a person with very poor coping skills.

Many Regrets: I've read your posts on this thread. You remind me in many ways of the WGF who dumped me. Your voice here on SI reminds me of her voice. She has never entered into another exclusive LTR. She is plain and simply a free spirit who does not wish to be tied down to a committed monogamous relationship. My sense of you is that, in your heart, this is your truth.

That may very well be the case. I'm not sure, but it has crossed my mind. I've always maintained I would never marry again. BH had a significant health problem years and years ago, while we were in our 20s. I've always said I would never marry again if something happened to him and I still stand by that. I'm not at the d place at this time though.

[This message edited by ManyRegrets at 8:57 PM, May 12th (Sunday)]

What happened the first time? How were you caught? Was there TT?

What's the story this second time? How were you caught?

I was caught the first time. Purely physical, went on for 8 months, completely done and so relieved when caught. Very little TT and completely open with BH at that time. Instant NC maintained, I found SI within a week of Dday, and we both registered.

The second time - caught, went on for 3 months physically and texting occasionally until about 8 months ago. Caught via recovered messenger posts to OM. TT for a long time.

I went back to your first post, just want to ask as I feel it is pretty important - are you TRULY NC with the OM? Have you cut off all communication? Have you given your BH 100% of the truth and full transparency? Because you said this time it was a full on EA/PA and this was a friend from the past who you admitted you had romantic feelings for in the past. So where is it now?

And I think I saw very briefly you touched on the fact that the OM's girlfriend does not know. Has that changed?

I am TRULY NC with the OM. I have been fully transparent to my BH, and I'm willing to take a poly. Even if we end up D, I told him this weekend I would take the poly. I don't want him to continue to have the same doubts about our M even if we D. I've already caused enough pain, if it will help, I'll do it.

The OM's GF does not know.