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I originally was thinking to ask this as the difference between male and female WAS, but I guess that's an inaccurate judgement. I've read on a lot of threads about (usually a WW) being played by the (usually male) AP, in terms of falling for their flattery and lies, but being nothing special ie seen as a more passive cheat in terms of how the A started.

In contrast, mine was the one who went out looking for another partner, knew he had a chance with an old friend, and being the integrity free pos she was, she went for it (yes, she knew we we together). So he was a much more active cheat.

Does this make any difference to how you perceive your WS's A? It does disturb me more that mine actively went out to make it happen rather than fall into it through another's flattery and pursuit. Obviously all A are destructive, but it seems much more of a betrayal that he was the active partner. Does anyone else look at it like this? Is it more a trait of someone who is likely to repeat offend?

I don't know if there is such a thing as a passive WS. It takes a lot of effort to have an affair and keep all the lies straight. No matter how much they might say that they felt flattered or desired by the AP, they still put work into it or it wouldn't have happened.

I would agree with taken for granted, I was the woman in the affair and was not passive or a victim of being duped. I believe when two people have an affair both are manipulating each other. Maybe the woman is more subtle in some cases, but I really doubt it. Women egg the guy on even if they aren’t making the first move. I would call bullshit on that in general terms. You might find one or two women in here that might be honest in saying that, I don’t know. You will have more men describe their wife that way than anything else as far as I have read.

Possibly

An active WS is most often a serial cheater they are always searching for another fix.

A passive WS is most often not a serial cheater, but someone who gets too close to someone else.

They are still responsible for their cheating whether they were the person who intentionally sought out the affair or whether they didn’t initiate but still responded. But I think there is a difference. There are people who are more skilled at manipulation and lying than others and there are people who have weak boundaries and are more gullible and there are people who are equally culpable. No matter which one it doesn’t mean that their behavior is excused because cheating is wrong period. But there is a difference between a sedan and an 18 wheeler truck just like there is a difference in the person who starts up an affair. Both are vehicles but one has considerably more manpower than the other.

I have about as much sympathy for a "passive WS" as I do a sucker who gets taken by an obviously slimy used car salesman. At the end of the day, they made their shitty choice. Of course we live in a gray world where intentions matter (see: manslaughter vs. 1st degree murder), but I don't have time to be worrying if the shithead I'm tethered to is going to have another "oopsy daisy" and derail our entire lives again.

Edit: Whew, I sense a lot of bitter-posting in me lately. Sexual frustration + lack of sleep = a grumpy AbandonedGuy.

[This message edited by AbandonedGuy at 8:27 PM, May 8th (Wednesday)]

It makes a difference to me. If my fch had been out looking for an A, I would have divorced him without a 2nd thought.

That being said, he is still responsible for what he did. His penis didn't passively fall into the MOWs vagina.

Knowing my WH I would bet he pursued his MOW but whether he did or not doesn't matter. He is the one married to me, and his fidelity was his boundary to enforce. The same way my fidelity always was whenever another man showed an interest in me.

Totally agree that both are as bad as each other, and that just as much effort is involved in continuing an A, no matter which you are. No sympathy or allowances made for an initially 'passive' participant.

You will have more men describe their wife that way than anything else as far as I have read.

Yes, this is what struck me, and wondered if it was true, or a difference in perception for BS genders, or something else. To me, it's def worse in terms of intent that WS wasn't just a dumb ass who fell into it because someone showed interest - he deliberately went looking.

I'm not sure that one is more safe than the other. My WH went looking for it. Hell, he went on a total binge.

He blamed me for every source of discontent in his life. He hated me. This wasn't a "Not Just Friends" affair. This was acting out in large scale. But you know, I don't think the "Not Just Friends" cheaters are inherently safer. These are people who lack boundaries.

I think it all depends on what the cheater learns (if anything) from the experience. A WS who realizes that all his bullshit was internal and who is willing to examine and rectify it is probably just as safe as the one who realizes they didn't have personal boundaries and is willing to install and maintain them. The flipside, of course, is that the WS never truly grasps his/her "whys" and doesn't do the work.

Mine was ‘passive’. I saw the early texts and she (AP) did go out of her way to flatter him, joke, put out there her ‘sex positive’ nature (whatever the funk that is).

But he didn’t stay passive. He ‘actively’ then chose to destroy his family and marriage. He has a responsibility to protect his family from women like that and he didn’t. He had the options to walk away and he didn’t.

I don’t believe it matters how they started their affairs, (although I guess with active it’s more possible they’ve done it before?) active or passive, it’s still a betrayal, they at some point chose to become active and willing participants BUT what’s important is that we can see remorse and a genuine desire to work at healing themselves and becoming a safe partner.

I don’t think anything can predict remorse and whether you can move through it. People say ‘run’ from serial cheaters but we have waywards in that position on here who have done the work and turned themselves around and are safe partners. People would be more inclined to forgive ONS cheaters who claim instant remorse but they can be repeat offenders because they were good at faking it. There is no fixed and hard rule. CS are individuals as are we.

We just have to bring our knowledge (a shattered one but we still have one) of our spouse into our decision making and watch them carefully. And always remember if you offer another chance they need to be worthy of that.

[This message edited by Dragonfly123 at 4:39 AM, May 9th (Thursday)]

Mine was highly active. He had an account in Tinder. He had an Instagram and looked up for young and sexy girls. Before his A, in FB, he sent friend requests to his ex girlfriends, liked their photos and wrote them compliments. He pursued his OW, started almost every phone call, sent thousand of messages, wrote her how much he loved her -she never wrote the same, pushed her to meet him etc. Yet, he tried to convince me, that his OW was the one, who kept contacting him.

Yes, that makes a big difference. Active cheater is probably serial cheater. I am quite sure that my WS has some more "secrets", I have not found out.

I have about as much sympathy for a "passive WS" as I do a sucker who gets taken by an obviously slimy used car salesman. At the end of the day, they made their shitty choice. Of course we live in a gray world where intentions matter (see: manslaughter vs. 1st degree murder), but I don't have time to be worrying if the shithead I'm tethered to is going to have another "oopsy daisy" and derail our entire lives again.

That's exactly how I look at it. And the murder vs manslaughter analogy is also one that comes to mind often for me. Both are bad. One is worse than the other. But, if we accept that, I'd say that's almost saying "Men having A's are worse" because, at least in my experience, A or not, men are almost always the "active" one seeking out and pursuing women. Not always, but very commonly. I'm not sure I've ever been "pursued" by a woman, the closest I've come is probably "the look" (come over here and talk to me). But I've never had a woman walk up to me and start trying different "openers" to get me to engage in conversation with the goal of getting me in bed.

Yes, I think the "active" partner is worse. But that means, by proxy, that I think that most men having A's are worse than women. And I guess, examining it, I kind of do think that, so, perhaps this is just consistent with my world view.

We do sympathize with someone taken for a ride by a slimy used car salesman who uses his superior knowledge to take advantage of someone. We also think "how could you be so stupid" about the person taken for the ride. Again, pretty much exactly how I feel about my W's A.

I know my WW was the aggressor in every A after the first. That one I don't know for sure, she hasn't said anything about it however I also know she was the aggressor in the beginning of our relationship/affair that led to us getting married so I have significant reason to believe she was. Her second A started after she happened to drive past his house (she claims she didn't know he lived there) saw him outside and stopped to talk. Their third A started after she was searching for him on FB for over 2 years and finally found him. Her EA started after she did a paid internet search for her old HS BF and contacted him.

Does that feel worse to me than if it wouldn't have been so? Yes it does because it follows the analogy of premeditated murder. It was in fact premeditated. Murder is murder but the devious thought and planning that goes into premeditated murder puts it on a whole different level.

[This message edited by JimmyB at 8:05 AM, May 9th (Thursday)]

Mine was passive. The cow told him wgat to do, when to do it, how to do it etcetc. She seduced him. Was older and he was/is very maleable. Obviously so. She would touch him under tables at meetings before i imagine to let him simmer and add some danger then told him "this is awkward, youll need to get a hotel for me."

When i felt something was off and confronted him he told her his was uoset and they should stop and she told him, im moving in a few months we'll stop then.

Im constantly disgusted seeing how easy it would be for another strong woman to tell him what to do. And yet, im a fool for not seeing that potential, im a strong woman and its ibviously a pattern for him to fall for the initiator. There is a point in a relationship tho when everything is 50 50 and i stopped initiating everything. I cant be afraid that his weak nature will be our downfall again. I am hopeful that counseling will help him in that regard.

But no, knowing he was passive doesnt make it better.

The fact that my WH was active in cheating and yet so passive in areas that were about me is one of the things that made it a dealbreaker. He'd wait for me to initiate sex most of the time, had me walking around feeling inadequate and unattractive and trying to believe that he was just tired and getting older and all the while he was out pursuing sex with others, paying for it even.

Nope. I found that unforgivable.

My WS has spent the last 6 months painting a picture of himself as the passive one in the A - she did all the travelling to see him, he never suggested meeting up. This has been confirmed by her but it is irrelevant to me.

It was only last week when I caught him out with another lie that he finally.admitted that yes, he has been lying to himself , he knew exactly what he was doing ECT. As a poster pointed out there are many many steps in starting and maintained an affair and each one involved another decision to cheat or to continue cheating. That's not passive at all. I was kidding myself that he had been drawn into this but I was wrong - the affair was very much a symptom of his selfishness and sense of entitlement and while I was supporting his self lies we were not really moving forward even though it felt like it at the time.

In my opinion they all went looking for it whether they admit it to themselves or not

My WW was active. He caught her attention one afternoon after she didn't even really notice him for a couple of years and she was on it. Made sure she went for coffee when he did, started arranging Thursday after work drinks, arranged the first time they fucked, arranged how they were going to avoid detection. She threatened him if he should ever reveal to anyone.

I don't know if it makes it worse. One way she's actively leading the charge to cheat and the other way she's so weak that a wink from him was enough for her to shed her panties. Arrived at the same place either way.

[This message edited by steadychevy at 2:31 PM, May 9th (Thursday)]

Does that feel worse to me than if it wouldn't have been so? Yes it does because it follows the analogy of premeditated murder. It was in fact premeditated. Murder is murder but the devious thought and planning that goes into premeditated murder puts it on a whole different level.

I think you just expressed what I am feeling, but couldn't put my finger on, Jimmy. The premeditated aspect, which does, in my mind, take it to a whole different level.

Yes it does because it follows the analogy of premeditated murder. It was in fact premeditated. Murder is murder but the devious thought and planning that goes into premeditated murder puts it on a whole different level.

My BH definitely felt this way. I confessed to the A, but I made it sound like I was the target and the sex was unplanned. I didn't TT the truth -- that the sex was premeditated, and I was an active participant -- until very recently. And of course, I knew that that was a critical distinction, or I wouldn't have tried to hide it.