SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Do you run into him around town? Does your husband? Does his wife know?

No, we live in a big city and it's unlikely. He tries to contact me sometimes but I don't respond. He's not married.

Tested for STDs

I've been tested and I'm clean.

Going NC with anyone who knew about the affair, but didn't tell your husband.

Not possible, one is my sister and the other is my best friend and I've known her for over 20 years. The topic is now completely off limits, but they know something happened.

Full transparency. Your husband gets full access to everything, email phones, Facebook etc. Passwords included.

I've given him my phone password but he will not use it as he still believes that I have the right to expect some privacy in life.

IC to figure out why you did this.

We go to therapy where there are one on one sessions and both of us on a rotating basis. They largely make him uncomfortable.

Does your husband know about SI?

No, I just found it the other night and I'm not sure what he would think. I'm positive he wouldn't like the roasting I've been getting but that's because he has sympathy for me. It's been a very difficult few days for me, and despite what many think I am still entitled to the emotions of a human being.

You're unwilling to get rid of the people in your life who knew about the affair but said nothing to your husband?

Just FYI, that's another major failure on your part. You must choose your husband over everyone else. If he's uncomfortable with your sister or your friend playing a part in your life, they're gone. No ifs, ands, or buts.

Seriously, what in the world makes you think it's even remotely acceptable to keep people around who aided and abetted you in abusing and humiliating your husband?

[This message edited by firenze at 8:22 PM, May 12th (Sunday)]

firenze:

who aided and abetted you in abusing and humiliating your husband?

I don't think she said that her sister and friend knew. I think she meant they suspected something was happening.

VE

He tries to contact me sometimes but I don't respond. He's not married.

Does your husband knows about his attempts to contact you? What did he feel about it? Did you consider changing your number and blocking his email addresses?

On a related note, did you express disgust or contempt for the AP to your husband?

I've given him my phone password but he will not use it as he still believes that I have the right to expect some privacy in life.

How does your husband believe you so completely? Again, did you totally throw the AP under the bus that your husband believes you won't contact him?

I'm positive he wouldn't like the roasting I've been getting but that's because he has sympathy for me.

And that is wrong. You and your husband must be open to criticism about your affair and your way of dealing with it. Because as you already have realized by now, your way of dealing with it has made a poor man to question his own abilities as a husband. Without others who have been in yours and his position to tell what is wrong here, he will go deeper into the rabbit hole.

despite what many think I am still entitled to the emotions of a human being.

Agreed. But what most here are trying to tell is that you have to come to an acceptance that the damage is far, far worse than you imagine and you cannot hope to rug-sweep all of this and get back to your pre-affair marriage in 6 months time or that your husband will be over this in a similar time-frame. He might pretend to be over this by not talking about it. But the pain will forever be there. It will be the first thing he thinks about waking up every morning and will be thinking about it throughout the day for a long time from now. That acceptance of the loss of the normality in your marriage and the permanent damage to your husband is what brings out true remorse.

Ask yourself. If your husband snaps out of his self-criticism mode now and starts to make you accountable, wants to talk about the affair several times a day, and keeps asking the same questions over and over in different ways hoping to catch you in a lie, for several months from now, can you take that? That is the normal way a reconciliation occurs without rug-sweeping. If you can't handle that then perhaps you aren't that ready to save your marriage. When you say you want to get past all of this soon, members here understand that as you are not willing to put in the effort to undergo that painful reconciliation process. Hence their comments about your being not remorseful.

Besides his self-criticism, how else is he dealing with his hurt? His eating and his sleep are probably suffering. How have you dealt with that? Also, how often do you talk about the affair and who brings it up? How do you express your remorse? Has he expressed anger at you? Does he entirely absolve you of the blame for your affair? Have you told him how active you were in the affair? About how you felt and how you sought it too? If you haven't yet, please tell him all of that. At this point he should actually blame you and the AP for the affair. Not him and the AP.

[This message edited by hadji at 10:00 PM, May 12th (Sunday)]

You're unwilling to get rid of the people in your life who knew about the affair but said nothing to your husband?

I think I've said this before, but I don't automatically equate knowing with aiding and abetting. Certainly, there are toxic people who cheer on an A, conspire with the cheaters to cover their tracks, etc, and I agree that anyone who played that role should get the boot. However, I don't think that anyone who even listens to a friend or family member who admits to an A should automatically be deleted from their lives. If my best friend admitted that she was cheating, I would do everything in my power to help her understand the terribly high stakes she was playing with. I would speak up for her BH and try to shake her out of the fog. I would not, however, tell her BH. If she told me something in confidence, I would keep that confidence and hope I could bring her to her senses.

It's not at all clear that the OP's BH wants her to cut out her sister and her best friend. If he felt strongly that she should, I'd advise her to comply. No one should be more important to you than your spouse. But it's not something I would have expected from my WH, and it's not something he expected from me. We put the fault for our As squarely where it belonged, on the cheating partner's shoulders, not on the friends who listened and tried to talk us down.

If my best friend admitted that she was cheating, I would do everything in my power to help her understand the terribly high stakes she was playing with. I would speak up for her BH and try to shake her out of the fog. I would not, however, tell her BH. If she told me something in confidence, I would keep that confidence and hope I could bring her to her senses.

And I would not. I would never keep that kind of secret for anyone and I couldn't stand to look in the mirror knowing I had the power to put a stop to something so despicable and chose silence. To see a person being betrayed, dehumanized, and disregarded and not extend them the simple kindness of revealing to them the truth of their life, is something I have no respect for. Absolutely none.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

I agree with this quote. I just don't think that trying to reform a wayward friend is "doing nothing." If that's the case, then everyone here who gives advice instead of tracking down the OBSes and blowing the lid off all the As is doing nothing. This is understood to be a safe space, and I have a few close friends for whom we are each other's safe space, as much as any therapist could be. A licensed professional can't violate a patient's confidentiality for the same ethical reasons that I wouldn't out my BFF: if they knew that would happen, they wouldn't seek help for things that they know are a problem and want to stop.

I do respect your point, firenze, and I appreciate why you can't respect mine. You want to protect vulnerable people, and I'm talking about protecting the privacy of a cheater. I see it as a grey area, but I understand why you do not.

VioletElle - no we're not roasting you and I'm sorry you feel that way. We're being honest with you which I'm sure feels like we're being mean but I can assure you we're trying to help as I stated in my previous post.

And yeah I get the overwhelming response that I'm an uncaring bitch and I know I'm not a good person.

Nobody called you that so why do you feel that way? The essence here is to separate your behaviors from you as a person. What you did was extreme in terms of inflicting trauma and it sounds as if you are rightly concerned that your BS is taking on too much blame for your actions. That sounds caring to me. So what are you going to do about it?

What we are saying here is NOT talking about it will make it worse. We're also saying that you need to understand his point of view. Be careful that your point of view doesn't trump his particularly at this very sensitive time.

PLEASE READ "How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair" which is a free PDF download and a quick read. Many WS's have read it multiple times until it becomes a part of the way they operate. It works...give it a try.

The major point here, which may have gone largely unnoticed, is that there are actions that are going to inflict more pain and those that will enable healing. The actions that enable healing are scary to most of us but work amazingly well. This is not going to be easy but if indeed you love your H the way you say then help him not feel worse.

Great post, ISurvived.

VioletElle -

"He wants details of the affair I'm just not comfortable talking about and I have no idea why he would be either."

You need to spill your guts. Every gory detail. His brain is already filled with things you can't begin to imagine.

He needs to know exactly what you did from day one, how you felt when you were doing everything -in explicit detail.

It's his right and you owe it to him.

[This message edited by Bladerunner2054 at 2:53 PM, May 13th (Monday)]

Hey I'm sorry to see you hear. I'm a BH Reading what you have said is very similar to me and my ex ww back when we had our d-day in late 2015.

Your husband reacted exactly like I reacted. I blamed myself when I initially found it. I truly believed it was all my fault. He is in absolute and total shock and I can assure you the way he is blaming himself is temporary. He has already probably started reading and is trying to figure it all out. He will get his bearings and if you are still not being competently open and honest with him when he comes out of this your marriage has almost no chance to survive. I can't stress this enough that you NEED give him the chance to make his own decision. That means he needs to know everything you know. If there is any chance of saving your marriage please read everything that has been suggested.

I filed for divorce around 6 months after d-day. Your husband will as well if you don't get this figured out and quick. Four years out and I have pretty much healed. He will too. If you want him in your life moving forward you have got some very good advice already. I wish you and your husband the best.

Hello VioletElle,

BH here. As others have stated it is important to be totally honest with your BH about details, but I'm not sure if they expounded on why.

What you did with OM may have been sporadic, routine, plain vanilla sex, but in your BH's mind it could be, and probably was, the most wild raunchy, uninhibited, swinging from the chandeliers sex imaginable. Even if it was not, which it probably was not, his own thinking will fill in the blanks BADLY.

I know it may be uncomfortable, but endure. Push through no matter what. Consider it an act of mercy.

I was harsh on my XWW, to my regret and shame. Yes I had been betrayed and humiliated but it was no excuse for cruelty, even though she was cruel to me. But I HAD to know.

At first she was reluctant, but OM, when I confronted him, forced her hand. He bragged about things she did and said, much of which was true, but he embellished quite a bit too. There was no way for me to know in the early stages what was true or not, so with me ready to blow up the world...her world...she came clean. It hurt like hell, but it was also cathartic.

Questions asked and answered:

Did you ever deny me sex because you'd finished with him and were tired/satisfied or because you were planning on being with him and wanted to be 'faithful' to him?

Did you ever have sex with me AFTER you'd been with him?

Did you ever kiss me or let me kiss you after you'd given him oral?

Did you ever have sex in our home, car or special places?

Did you ever climb into bed with me with his residue still on you?

Hard questions. Harder answers.

I'd suggest anticipating his questions about details and writing the answers down. You won't get them all so don't worry, but try to have some explicit answers ready. Make some sort of timeline. Be prepared for him to ask questions over and over again. This is a marathon not a sprint. Healing can literally take years and often the 2nd year is worse than the first.

My XWW and I divorced but we're still a couple. Our relationship is different, but more honest and open. For a while it was like she was trying to outdo what she did with OM. While good on the surface, it wasn't really honest. She was trying to prove something and I felt it. We've grown together and now things are 'real' between us. Be prepared for that also.

Your BH might want things 'wilder' in the bed. Give it to him, if you can. Sex is healing.

I wish you luck. Keep posting.

If he's uncomfortable with your sister or your friend playing a part in your life, they're gone.

If I even thought he was capable of thinking that way, the next words he heard from me would be from a divorce attorney. My sister could be in jail for conspiracy to murder me and I would still talk to her. I love my sister period and end of story. Same goes for if he at any point said that my feelings don't matter anymore because I had an affair. There would be nothing left at that point. Asking for a divorce is much more understandable than having the desire to act like a controlling psychopath.

Nobody called you that so why do you feel that way?

People saying I don't love him or that I don't care. I'm not even saying I am a good person, but I do love him.

I can't stress this enough that you NEED give him the chance to make his own decision.

I agree completely. I'm just worried he will take stuff out of context and assign more value to some of it than I ever did.

He bragged about things she did and said, much of which was true

I'm so sorry. That is one of the most tasteless things I've ever read and really reflects on him and not you. I can't believe anyone would do that, that's so terrible.

Questions asked and answered:

It's been suggested to me to have him write out his questions so I can answer them. I tend to get emotional and cry in stressful situations, this isn't so I can think up a lie.

Would that be ok for any husbands here if your wife asked you to do that? I don't know, it seems a bit formal but I don't know if I could maintain my composure. Especially if he started yelling at me or got emotional himself.

I'm not a prude in bed or anything like that. We do a few sort of kinky things that he likes. I dress up from him and some other stuff. I don't think he has ever had any complaints other than frequency and I've been working on that too.

He's going to be home in a few hours and I'm pretty terrified. I couldn't get anything done at work today and basically I'm a mess and he's already noticed.

VioletElle:

I’m a BH and I realize you are here because you want your M. Also, I understand the difference between making terrible decisions and betraying your spouse and being categorized as a bad person. Don’t get hung up on the semantics. What’s most important is coming to grips with the seriousness of the emotional devastation to your BH. It is common for WS not to realize the extent of damage and wat to rugsweeping. So please keep this in mind when reading the responses.

Please read and reread the post from ISurvivedSoFar. It is excellent analysis and advice. Being totally honest with your BH about your A, I know is scary. But is the absolute right thing to do. For any long term hope of R with your BH, it must start from a basis of honesty.

I have been with my fWW for more than forty years since she confessed her A and I filed for D. The only thing that convinced me to call off the D process and give her a chance was complete honesty and a passion to save our M. Good luck.

Love is an action.

In what ways were you loving him, when you were lying to him, betraying him and your children,having sex with another man, and exposing him to stds?

I'm not trying to be mean,or piss you off. But these are questions most betrayed spouses will either think to themselves or ask their WS. And it's something you really need to think about.

Asking a WS to go NC with people who knew about the affair, but didnt tell the BS isnt controlling. Its securing the marriage against people who aren't friends of the marriage.

Again, I encourage you to tell your husband about SI. He needs support. And we can help him see that what you did wasn't his fault.

ETA..you've mentioned your refusal to be controlled several times. Odd,considering your refusal to answer all if your husband's questions is a form of controlling him,and the outcome. Controlling someone is a form of abuse. And an affair is abusive.

[This message edited by HellFire at 4:01 PM, May 13th (Monday)]

Asking a WS to go NC with people who knew about the affair, but didnt tell the BS isnt controlling.

To me that is isolating with the end of controlling. I find it utterly distasteful, deliberately hurtful and vindictive. I couldn't possibly love someone who attempted anything of the sort. I did what I did and I am the one responsible, not my sister, not my best friend and not my husband. Anyone asked to sever such a bond as sisterly love would become the object of a burning resentment that would turn to hatred.

I had an affair, that is grounds for divorce if he thinks they are. He doesn't and if he comes to then that will be his decision. If he asks me to do anything of that kind, not that I could even imagine it, then the decision would be mine. And there would be no deliberation. He could take half my stuff, I don't care.

I agree about answering his questions. I took the kids to my parents' house and intend on doing it tonight. That doesn't mean I'm not scared. I am prepared for the worst. If he wants me to leave then I will leave.

OK, this is going to be a bit ugly...

If I even thought he was capable of thinking that way, the next words he heard from me would be from a divorce attorney. My sister could be in jail for conspiracy to murder me and I would still talk to her. I love my sister period and end of story. Same goes for if he at any point said that my feelings don't matter anymore because I had an affair. There would be nothing left at that point. Asking for a divorce is much more understandable than having the desire to act like a controlling psychopath.

I disagree with some posters. Your sister is your sister, but at the very least, your sister is going to need to come up with a way to apologize for her part in conspiring ti destroy his life. Maybe you don't see it that way, maybe it isn't objectively that way, but it might look and feel that way to your BH.

Your friend, 20 years or not, is on the table. If your friend (who is objectively an enemy of the marriage, despite being a friend to you) is not someone you would be willing to cut from your life for the sake of your marriage, that might be a problem for your BH. Boundaries. He can say he won't stay if she's still in your life (I would advise him to), and you can say go pound sand if you want. Consider if the roles were reversed, and he had a friend conspiring with him about hiding his activities from you.

Losing friends is a reasonable consequence of having an affair.

People saying I don't love him or that I don't care. I'm not even saying I am a good person, but I do love him.

By my definition, love is an action. you may feel love for him, in a caring way, but what you have done is not the actions of a person who loves someone.

I agree completely. I'm just worried he will take stuff out of context and assign more value to some of it than I ever did.

Losing control of the outcome is a consequence of having an affair.

It's been suggested to me to have him write out his questions so I can answer them. I tend to get emotional and cry in stressful situations, this isn't so I can think up a lie.

Would that be ok for any husbands here if your wife asked you to do that? I don't know, it seems a bit formal but I don't know if I could maintain my composure. Especially if he started yelling at me or got emotional himself.

A list would be fine with me. That said, you're going to need to steel yourself and buck up to get through this. If you want your marriage, collapsing in a heap of tears when confronted with the consequences of your actions isn't going to get the job done.

Honesty, transparency, vulnerability. You're going to need all of that. You are going to need to rely on someone other than your BH if it gets shitty for you. If you try to lean on him to help protect you from the fallout of the choices that you alone willingly made to destroy his sense of stability and happiness, and rob him of joy, your relationship will truly be lost.

I find it utterly distasteful, deliberately hurtful and vindictive. I couldn't possibly love someone who attempted anything of the sort.

Sounds an awful lot like how I would describe an affair.

-edit: Tell you what, we frequently say here that there MUST be consequences for an affair, or it's likely to be repeated.

What do you think are fair consequences for what you've done?

[This message edited by xhz700 at 4:31 PM, May 13th (Monday)]

VioletElle if you want true reconciliation with your husband you must open yourself up totally. You must allow yourself to be completely vulnerable to him.

That is where I see your stumbling block is: an unwillingness to be vulnerable, which is in itself a sign of wanting to control the outcome, which in and of itself is a form of pride.

Pride destroys more relationships than anything else.

It has not been long since your D-Day. If I may ask, how emotionally attached did you become to the OM? Was the affair strictly physical or did you fall in love with him? It may be that you still have some emotional bond to the OM that is holding you back from being open and vulnerable to your husband.

Sounds an awful lot like how I would describe an affair.

So the solution is to try to beat each other up until there is nothing left? Like I said, he has grounds for divorce. Never disputed that. However, I should say that there was nothing vindictive about the affair.

Yeah, I'd just file for divorce. I have better things to do. Since I know he isn't like that, it's not really an issue anyways.

Was the affair strictly physical or did you fall in love with him?

I don't think I was in love with him, but it wasn't just physical either. I couldn't be attracted to someone if I didn't have feelings for them.

He wanted me to leave my husband and I ended it immediately.