SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Me and WH aren’t at a reconciliation stage, Ive been hoping for it but lately I have been questioning how I would actually feel if we did get to that stage and if I would be able to move on from the things I read that he wrote to her and the things that he has said to me?

The things I read were very specific to mine and WH relationship things about how he sees me as his high school sweetheart and mum of his child, about his lack of sexual desire for me especially now that he has met her. The deep love that he feels for me but describes as more of a family love. How he feels passion for her that he never felt for me, him questioning if I loved him more than he loved me because he hasn’t felt the same level of passion. How jealous he feels when other guys chat to her and how he hasn’t felt that anxiety about me.

I try to rationalise it and think it’s the circumstances and the fact that she is younger and because their affair is not true reality and everyday living etc, that we met when we were late teens so he wasn’t as mature then, but it hurts and makes me question everything I thought I had with my husband and my own self esteem. How do I move forwards knowing that she made him feel that way and I didn’t/ don’t? He says to me that we have so much deep love and we have all our history to build on but that he now feels his passion for me was weaker than it should be and now he feels he has a higher sex drive with his AP but that sex isn’t the be all and end all. If I don’t reconcile with him i don’t feel this will stop being an issue as this will really affect me going forwards that my husband didn’t love me as he should have.

Anyone in similar situations who have reconciled how did you get past this?

How do you move on from this if you don’t reconcile?

Any WS who are in reconciliation did u feel this way about your AP compared to your BS? Is this something you struggled to deal with in reconciliation? Did you manage to work through it?

This time is so hard. It’s so hard. Can I share something with you? You will regret this. You will regret allowing him to treat you this way.

I went through this exact same bullshit for 5ish weeks. It finally stopped when I started the divorce.

Financially, and reputation my husband had a great deal to lose.

If I would have continued to allow him to talk to me. To confide in me.....he would have gladly continued to hurt me.

I can recall vividly the shock in realizing...”he isn’t into me”.

To this day I regret not packing up his crap....putting half on his AP door step and the other half on AP parents door step.

My regret has nothing to do with the R I am in now. I regret it because I allowed my husband to hurt me. I allowed it. I should have loved myself more. I should have NEVER put up with such a disgusting level of abuse.

Once, I found my rock....I didn’t look back. My husband wanted the marriage. He had to jump through hoops on my terms.

There can be no wavering with a wayward. Their basic personality is to manipulate. It is what allows them to cheat.

I’m sorry you are dealing with the infidelity in your marriage. And his “honest” assessment of his feelings (now) is typical cheater behavior. It’s called re-writing the marital history. Suddenly he’s not “happy” but things were perfectly fine until he met the OW.

He is looking to justify the choice to cheat.

I heard the same crap from my H. She’s the best thing that ever happened. Funny how every time I told him to go and live with her he refused.

In your case this is heartbreaking to hear. But just know he is saying these things to defend his cheating and excuse his behavior.

Read up on the 180. It will help you detach so YOU are not subjected to his infidelity and lying any longer. Protect yourself.

Agreed with Iwantmyglasses, there will come a time when you wish you had defended yourself.

In terms of your original question... my WH never had the nerve to say those kind of things to me. Of course, that doesn't mean he wasn't thinking them. Your WH had a deliberate affair. When he tells you this bullshit about how "the marriage was already over", that's a LIE he tells to himself in order to make his morally defunct actions more palatable... a mere rationalization, a delusion. You've had an unfortunately close-up view of a WS's inner mindset, but really, they're almost garden-variety in how they twist up their own logic in order to give themselves permission to be assholes.

By your writing style, you sound British. If that's true, the courts are typically favorable to the mother. I think I'd look this guy in the eye and tell him to either pull his head out of his ass right now and not later, or GTFO and be prepared to hear from my solicitor. And be prepared for him to take you up on that either way. It's unwise to put out an ultimatum you're not willing to enforce, but what do you have to lose? The alternative is allowing him to continue hurting you while he eases himself out of the marriage at his own pace.

I remember, not long after DDay, when my WH was trying to decide if R was possible. Basically, he wanted to know if I would ever entertain the idea of a sexual relationship with him again. I told him that 'yes', I did plan on having a loving, emotionally intimate, sexual relationship again in my life... and if it wasn't with him, it would be with someone else. BOOM! Have you ever watched another person's face closely as the penny dropped? Just like that.

The WS thinks they've got all the time in the world, that their old life and their old mate is going to sit on the shelf, collecting dust, until they work out what they want. But I wasn't going to be "an option" saved for later. He had to move quickly or I would be gone.

ETA: I meant it too. This wasn't a gambit designed to gain compliance. I don't play.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 11:47 AM, June 10th (Monday)]

(((Moonpenny))) please 180 and start detaching. Start healing yourself.

Is your WS in any kind of IC? If not he should be. I would advise you to get into IC and discuss this.

I also read things that made my head explode. I found out more info from retrieving deleted texts than I ever would have gotten from WS. I will always remember the words that are forever etched in my memory. Such lovely memories we get to have from these fucking idiots.

Honestly the only way I was able to move forward was to accept that my WS REALLY thought this way.

With time the emotions attached to these things start to dull whether you are in R, Limbo or D.

Moon,

I am sorry these things have been said to you. We all wish it could be taken away for you but it can't.

As others have said, self care is your best bet at this time. I know that's hard to see now, but it is the truth.

You will (trust me on this) get to a point in the future that you will really understand where this rhetoric came from. While all I got from WS to AP was "he understand me like you couldn't (well DUH< your a big fat lying cheater and so is he)", instead of got "we were stale, you are vanilla, etc. These words are forever seared in my brain and for a LONG time, they hurt, hurt, hurt when I would bring them back to the surface.

Now (27 months later), I see them for what they are. EVEN if she meant them, I'll never know. I am proud to be vanilla, as that means I am a gentle compassionate lover. If she wants porn sex (non vanilla, she can have AP). I give you this analogy so you can put it into context.

It sounds like your WS is similar to mine in that their definition of love is all fireworks all the time. They never made it from the initial love phase to a mature lasting love. Thus the "passion" is gone, the fireworks are gone. That is ON THEM, not you! Remember that and I pray some day you'll get there... It took me a LONG time, but I finally am there... Good luck!

So much of the texting is often nonsense and fuzzy brain high on affair excitement chemicals. They convince themselves of whatever so they can keep the pleasure train rolling. I'm of the opinion that most of that texting is not reality at all. How many WS are confounded by what they said years later after they returned to sanity?

Yes it hurts. Never should have been put out there. pet names, flirtatious banter, degrading or giving private details about the BS. Infidelity is full of hurtful actions.

Moon.sorry you are here, but you will get good advice

I would venture to say that this kind of hurtful information is present in all affairs to a certain extent. Reading their notes texts and emails is painful. I should know, I did. One was 43 pages of how she was so much more beautiful, intelligent,sexy, interesting etc. than me. How he wanted to have children with her and not me. That he was relieved I miscarried.... Oh then there were the details (blow by blow description of their sexual encounters). All of that is seared into my brain.

But we have reconciled. It was years of work for the two of us, and in fact,he's still in IC nearly 7 years later.

It's been difficult for me to process the content of these letters and their love affirmations but this is what helped me

1. Less than4% of all affairs result in long term relationships. I don't like the odds of that and most of the stories I read here show the WS begging to come home. My WS did not leave but I saw all the letters about his intentions to leave

2. Google and learn about limerance. It's this fake feeling of love that masks the selfishness of the affair. This is not real or permanent love but a fantasy...a very powerful one that invokes hormones. This is not love nor can limerance sustain a relationship. Limerance is fake and misleading.

3. Understanding that an affair, even a long term one, is not a relationship. People in relationships don't hurt others, their relationship does not harm others nor do they have to lie or hide what they are doing. This is not behaviour that ends in solid long term connections of any sort.

4. Understanding my WH was broken and needed to fix himself. I cannot fix him, he has to want to do this himself. If he doesn't want to fix himself then I leave. There's nothing to work with

5. Give myself permission to think about what future I want and forgiveness to myself if I decided to stay. Understanding that I am not nor will I ever be Plan B. That was a hard one. I gave myself a year to decide. The year past and I did not decide but saw we were moving in a positive direction. Even at two years out things were really rough but still trendIng positively. I don't know when I decided to stay, but I just never left. I don't feel badly about that decision either.

6. Most importantly, that I have a spouse that is remorseful and understands the crisis he created and the willingness to do everything he possibly could to maintain and repair the relationship. If WS is unable to express and act in remorseful ways then they are not worth staying with.

It sounds like your DD is restively new...in that case, your spouse likely still has "fuzzy" feelings for AP. This is common...there is a withdrawal phase and it is very painful to watch as the bs. In fact, I nearly left him because I could not stand him "mourning" the "loss" of AP. That phase ended when I told him to leave. It wasn't her or me....it was me alone or nothing. That snapped him out of his fog fairly quickly.

The words, texts notes etc. still hurt. Six years later and they are still tattooed on my brain. Time won't heal the wounds but the words hurt less because I know he knows better now. He is a better more honest man now. He damaged our relationship but we have repaired and rebuilt.

Edited for clarity and typos

[This message edited by Lowlow at 7:18 PM, June 10th (Monday)]

You can get past it if your husband starts treating you like the gem that you are rather than his consolation prize. You can't get past what he said in those texts when he's essentially saying the same thing to you now.

You deserve someone who knows he'd be a damned fool to lose you. You deserve someone who sees the affair for the sad, cliched mistake that it was. If he's not doing everything he can to turn into the man that you deserve, then you're not going to be able to get past this, no.

Just remember that obviously you are the one he should be desperate to keep. Self-absorbed, immature women with Daddy issues are a dime a dozen. You are unique and strong and true. If he can't figure that out, then it's his loss. His turning into a walking mid-life crisis doesn't change any of that being true about you.

Dear Moonpenny,

You speak of reconciliation when you currently are still living IN infidelity. Before reaching that stage when reconciliation is an option, one needs first to get out of infidelity. Then will come first, recovery from the trauma you have experienced, then maybe reconciliation. You’ve been demoted to the role of mummy/confidente/best friend and YOU are allowing this, so desperate you are to keep your husband, so fearful you are of a future without him. What you’re expressing, I went through it, the majority of us BSes went through it, and I can assure you that, just like Iwantmyglasses, the person you will hate the most when this nightmare is over, will be YOU.

I know you’ve read a lot, and you know that just like a good wayward, your husband has met his soulmate, he’s never felt like this before, he’s even forgotten that when he met you, he felt the same about you, you were the most exciting girl ever and never had he experienced such a level of emotional and sexual connection. He is so far up his arse that he has forgotten that your are his wife, not his mum or his best friend, and he can say anything to his mum as she will never leave.

How do you expect him to feel any romantic and sexual desire for you again when you are allowing YOURSELF to be his MUM, his BEST FRIEND? Regain your self respect and power as the beautiful and exciting woman you are. Read and read again what Iwantmyglasses wrote: this is my experience too. My husband was kind enough not to talk about his sexual and romantic feelings for the COW, but I still heard him talking, in our marital bed, of my next husband and that I will be happy again with another man. I heard him say how funny the COW was, how much they talked together, how fragile, kind, and lovely she was

Moonpenny, you are making a massive mistake, and I so feel for you as I was exactly where you are. Allowing myself to be his mum and best friend so fearful I was to lose him. At least, in my head, there was still this, he still loved me as his mum and best friend. That was something, instead of nothing. But this is not what I wanted, I wanted him to love me like before, like his wife, like his romantic and sexual partner. And this is also what you want. You know your marriage is doomed if he cannot regain those feelings for you. The only way, dear Moonpenny, for him to regain those feelings he once had for you, is to become a WIFE again. As long as you are allowing yourself to be anything else, he will not. Portray The Wife in your head. What would she do? She would give him the boot, she would tell him  »Enough of this crap, get out of my life, go and live your little fantasy with your soulmate and leave me alone. There are billions of men on this planet, and I am sure there will be one for me. Out! » I will always remember my husband’s panic when I finally revolted.

As we’ve all said to you, it is only when we regained our self respect, and gave them the boot that our husbands came back. Listen to us Moonpenny, we have all been in your shoes, trust our experience on this.

I am now in IC and I can assure you that what I am now dealing with is not my husband’s infidelity, it is the revolt I have against myself for allowing all this crap, for not standing up for myself, for allowing myself to be demoted to the rank of mother and best friend, for having so little self respect for myself that I allowed my husband to tell me about my next husband in OUR marital bed. He was so far gone in his romantic crap that he could contemplate, without any problem, another man making love to me in OUR marital bed. It was easy as, although we were still sleeping in the same bed, I was not his wife anymore, I was his mum and best friend. He now shakes his head with disgust for this (and all the rest he told me) but, most importantly, so do I.

Be strong Moonpenny, don’t be scared, revolt, stand up for yourself, throw him out! Are you in IC Moonpenny? If not, you must do it, now.

My husband has had some IC he said that they commented that he focuses on me as the mother of his child rather than as a lover or wife. They also told him that if he cannot be happy with me then he will only make me unhappy in the long term. They were very much of the do what makes you happy and if you leave and it doesn’t work out you will know that if you were truly happy with your wife then you wouldn’t have left.

He tells me he knows what he is giving up life wise and that he wil have regrets either way and that he wishes he could snap out of his feelings for AP but he can’t.

DD 1 EA was January and DD2 PA was a few weeks ago.

The hurtful things are a combination of their messages and the things that my husband has said to me. I did sometimes question his level of passion for me In our relationship but I put this down to having been together for a long time and that we were friends first. At times I used to wonder if I was more interested In him than he was in me because he seemed to put himself first in terms of how he spent his time but I put this down to his personality type. Now he says things to me like he thought that’s just how he was but now he has met AP he naturally feels about her how I always wanted him to be with me so that makes him question if we were right. That he’s not sure if the passion and affection is something we can work on because he sees our high school sweethearts type love as a barrier. That he doesn’t feel like he’s the same person anymore and if we met now would we have that click.

I’m scared to kick him out because I feel like he will see that as me saying he is right and accepting the situation and it will relieve his guilt. He said to me the other day that he married me and made promises to me so he should uphold them. That he couldn’t be sure if or when romantic feeling for me would return but that our deep love and how well we get on and our friendship would be there so that we could raise our family together and hopefully we could rebuild.

This is the worst time of my life

I understand this is the worst time of your life, but you will get through it. You can find joy again.

Forget what your H says for a moment. Do you want him? Do you want a guy who is so far out of touch with reality? Do you want a guy who is so selfish? Do you want to keep a guy who isn't into you, when you probably can find someone who is deeply into you?

He 'fell out of love' with you because of his own failures, not because of anything you did or didn't do. You're still the person a healthy male can have a passion for - it's just that your H is wallowing in his lack of health.

You get through the bullshit that comes out a remorseless WS's mouth and thumbs by 1) nurturing self-talk, and 2) by telling him you don't want him, unless he loves you, is in love with you, and will be monogamous for the rest of his life (assuming that's what you want).

They were very much of the do what makes you happy and if you leave and it doesn’t work out you will know that if you were truly happy with your wife then you wouldn’t have left.

He tells me he knows what he is giving up life wise and that he wil have regrets either way and that he wishes he could snap out of his feelings for AP but he can’t.

This is misunderstood pop psychology of 50-60 years ago.

The problem isn't that he's unhappy with you. The problem is that he's unhappy with himself and that he is looking for someone to solve his problem. But he's the source and the solution to his own problems. His IC may be an idiot - but it may be that your H misinterpreted what his IC said.

R is possible if you want it and if your H gets his head back where the sun shines. If he doesn't, ideally I would recommend throwing him back into the pool of available men - you deserve better. Since the real world includes finances, kids, housing, etc., you may have to bide your time - but th conclusion stands - unless your H changes, he's a lousy partner. Let ow have him.

The things said are so hurtful. Sometimes the WS can't even envision why they said the things they said (or so I am t old) and often admit they didn't mean those things. How do you move forward? I really don't know. The others mention the excitement of the affair and manipulation. These are true. IC can maybe help the WS understand why or how they did these things. The bottom line is that you get to move forward however you want to, with or without that person. I hope you find the clarity you need.

He had anxiety about other men talking to her because he knew there was a good chance she would sleep with them too.

You have received some fantastic advice on here - seriously. What I do want to add is only this: get yourself to a place where you let go of the outcome. You MUST do this somehow, for you, so that you will be OKAY regardless of what happens.

You have heard from a whole host of people on here who have told you how their WS responded to the "get out - I will not be Option B anymore" - how it shocked them and how it was a catalyst for change. I did the same thing and there was no change (okay, there has been some change, but not enough for me). He is (I believe - I haven't directly asked) still thinking that somehow he fell out of love with me - he has told me (upon my asking in the past) that the AP is "really funny" and "they got along really well"...blah blah blah. My response was to tell him to pull his head out of his ass - I forwarded him an email that he sent me about 4 years ago when I was away visiting family for a week (a mere 18 months before the A) telling me how he was so lucky to have me in his life - how we got along so well and how he looked forward to laughing and having fun every day with me, how great it was that I had decided to share my life with him and how he would never let me go, and how he couldn't wait for me to come home. Basically it was the sappiest love letter he'd ever sent me, and it was filled with a million soul-mate type comments and appreciations for me and how great he thought I was - probably identical in nature to things he has told her (or thought about her) since. *Sigh* My question when I told him I was done with this nonsense was: "How did you go from that email to feeling 'no attraction' for me or feeling like 'I am just a friend' now?" He had (and still has) no response.

My WH still thinks he's in some sort of limbo and yes he still wants to treat me as a "really great friend" (mind you, how he treated one of his other really great friends was to have a 2 year A with his wife so it's not much of a compliment to be his friend). We still live together but I am leaving after my work position term ends and in order to maintain some semblance of a decent home life I try to maintain some sense of normalcy and I think he thinks I'm giving him more time even though I have plainly told him that I am not. He has said on numerous occasions that he does not want me to leave him but why he says that is a great mystery. He has said he feels "guilty" and that "he owes it to me to try" sometimes and then other times he "really loves me" and thinks I am the best partner for him. (Note, none of those things are remotely close to the sappy love note I received or all the shit he attributes to her in his head). I told him that I don't want anyone who wants to stick it out due to guilt and all he owes me at this stage is honesty and acting like a decent person while I'm still here.

My point is this (and someone said it more eloquently than I will): Do not go into the 180 like its some kind of "trick" or "ploy" - it's for you to get your own head together. Believe it or not, I think there is also a BS "fog" - the fog of the BS is to somehow discount all this bullshit that has been heaped upon you by your WS and feel this overwhelming rush of love for them - this desire to work things out, even in the face of such clear betrayal. And much like a WS, how long it takes for a BS to come out of the fog is very individual, but once you do you will have a lot more clarity about what you want/need to do for you. The 180 is a way to help lift your fog so you can see clearly and take care of yourself.

Your WS may "come around" and all of a sudden find that love he felt for you when he really believes he will lose you...or he may not. I am not trying to be mean - I just don't want you saddled with false hope - you have enough to deal with (I do understand on some level - I've had multiple d-days and broken NC too). Oh trust me, little hurts more than to find out after the nightmare of all of this that your WS has lost or cannot find that feeling he had before for you. It SUCKS in a soul-crushing way...but, you will survive and the less time you waste on putting yourself through the ringer the better. Resolution of an issue one way or the other is better than limbo - please believe me on that.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 9:15 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)]

I’m scared to kick him out because I feel like he will see that as me saying he is right and accepting the situation and it will relieve his guilt.

Quite the opposite. By not kicking him out - by not demanding better treatment - you are conveying to him that the situation is acceptable to you and that he has your permission to treat you this way.

I’m scared to kick him out because I feel like he will see that as me saying he is right and accepting the situation and it will relieve his guilt.

Quite the opposite. By not kicking him out - by not demanding better treatment - you are conveying to him that the situation is acceptable to you and that he has your permission to treat you this way.

Actually you are both right and my WH himself has confirmed this. He DOES feel guilt and he's admitted that for awhile he was "trying" (like what your WH says) precisely because he felt like he "owed it to me" to try. He has also said that it would be easier if I just left as then he would be relieved of feeling bad as it was my choice to go. But what is that really saying: That he thinks he is so great and I've been such a good girl that I deserve the wonderful prize that is him? That all he really wants is relief from this mess and that he doesn't give a shit about me?

You are conveying to him by not giving him the "get out" speech that he IS this big prize and that he has permission to treat you this way because HE (not you) is worth it. Think about that logic for a minute and how f-ed up it is. He's made a colossal shit-show out of your marriage and he is the prize?

I know what you are afraid of. You are afraid of my situation - that when faced with the "I'm leaving if you don't pull your head out of your ass" that your WH chooses not to stay and do the work to fix things with you. It's HARD to deal with that - but what are your options really? 1) To stick around and let him do whatever it is that he wants and keep you as his go-to option when something he perceives as better comes around and let him have his fun forever, or 2) Stick around, same as option 1, until he decides to leave you anyway.

If you don't make it known that you will not settle for options 1 or 2, then that is exactly what you will get. It's so tempting to think that he is going to magically have an awakening just at the thought of losing you, but that hasn't happened (it does to some people - some people on here simply had to say the words I'm done and that was enough for their WS to wake the F up...but unfortunately for you and me, that is not the case).

I think when my WH really accepts the fact that I am going to leave and/or when I really do when this job ends he will let me go without the blink of an eye (as I've seen other WS's do on here) because he's convinced himself that he should try due to guilt and that my leaving relieves him of that burden and it will be a big relief. My WH is the type that has written people off without much fanfare in his past - especially when they have hurt him or treated him badly. As an example, before me my WH was engaged to a woman who basically ghosted him after getting the ring - she hawked it and acted very entitled about it. He should have been devastated by this - he wanted to marry this woman - but instead he became angry, focused on her refusal to return the ring, and he moved on very quickly because he cannot deal well with difficult emotional issues. He is working on this with his IC, as he should be (I've posted at length about his attachment style etc which is a large part of his issues IMO and something only he can work on).

Does that hurt me to understand? Hell yes it does. It sucks to know that somewhere I lost, but given the choice between getting on with my life or staying with someone who believes they don't want me in "that way" anymore (for whatever reasons - real or in his imagination) isn't living...it's just a slow tortured death. The choice is yours, and the short term options ALL suck, but the long term ones are much better.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 11:08 AM, June 12th (Wednesday)]

So I’ve done it, I’ve said I am done. After an evening of ‘reminders’ about why he would stay and how much he loves his AP I decided to just give up. At least this way it’s no more living on hope. His AP thinks we have been properly separated during the last 6 months, should I tell her he’s been living at home and we weren’t separated until now? Should I blow it up or just let it be?

So I’ve done it, I’ve said I am done. After an evening of ‘reminders’ about why he would stay and how much he loves his AP I decided to just give up. At least this way it’s no more living on hope. His AP thinks we have been properly separated during the last 6 months, should I tell her he’s been living at home and we weren’t separated until now? Should I blow it up or just let it be?

First, I'm sorry. Really I am. I can absolutely relate to how it feels. I assume that you already knew his AP believed you were separated? You didn't say much about how you're feeling so I won't pry but know that this too shall pass.

To answer your question about the AP you can do whatever you want, but don't expect that you will get some form of truth or honesty from the AP. The AP in my life was immensely rude/insensitive/entitled when she reached out to me, clearly angry I had told her spouse of the A. Blow it up if you want to do - don't if you don't. Just don't expect it to make you feel better - expectations sometimes make things worse for me anyway.

I’m scared to kick him out because I feel like he will see that as me saying he is right and accepting the situation and it will relieve his guilt.

The grass is greenest where you water it. He watered the grass of some other woman and now he's saying, Boo Hoo! My grass here at home is brown!

If guilt is all that's keeping him married to you, then you are limited in what you can expect with respect to reconciliation. If you saying, "You broke my heart and our vows and cheated on me and destroyed our happy life together" will relieve him of his guilt, then he doesn't have much of a conscience to begin with.

But I know what you're saying. He'll feel like this makes him the victim of mean old wifey instead of the destroyer of your marriage. I'd just keep repeating the truth. "You pursued a relationship with someone else behind my back and then were surprised to find you didn't have room for me in your heart anymore. You're not so smart, are you?"

You deserve a lover and a partner, not a martyr.