SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Let's just suppose that there is biology to this, that familiarity for some reason dims a woman's passion. Just pretend it's true. Would that explain why women wrongly believe their M is the problem rather than their body/mind sexual disability, leading to exit As and other stupidity? If women did not know it was "normal," wouldn't that explain their belief that something is wrong with their M??

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I don't know the answer to this either. We weren't connected, so I think that does effect everything in some way. But, I don't think my A was about being bored or not feeling my sex life was good. So, I can't say this was my experience.

This post clicks into place for me as you once asked me if I was trying to seem like an ideal mate. I now understand that what I was saying just wasn't your experience in a long term marital sex situation so it seemed foreign. it was unbelievable to you.

I think it's great that you are working on this, but I do think you can almost over think it and create anxiety around it. You don't strike me as an anxiety type, but I do think some people put too much pressure on themselves and it kills it more.

I don't believe it comes as naturally later in marriage without planning and effort. It's like everything else in a LTM - it goes in cycles, it's work for a while and then it's easy, then it's work again and then it's easy.

I make an effort to think about it more throughout the day, to try and fantasize about him especially if I think "tonight's the night". Have a long bath or other things that help me feel sensual. Read erotica. If you are inclined, visit an adult store together. I can privately make some recommendations of things I found there that have worked well if you are so inclined to want to know.

It also helps if it's not the same all the time. A different time of the day, or in a public place where there is little chance you will be caught but just enough to make it exciting. Something about adrenaline is bonding and you will find that passion can be jumpstarted there and you can cruise on that for a while because you have a recent hot fantasy of him.

Go out and listen to music and let your bodies move together even if it's just standing with your back to him with his arms around your waist and swaying. (I use that as an example because we used to do that when we were dating and by bringing back those things that made us hot back in the day it makes it new again) A

nd I know you have heard a million times but it's soo true...the key with married couples is foreplay starts in the morning. One of us will send each other a text early in the day or says something suggestive as we leave in the morning and it's our cue that it's on like donkey kong later. Anticipation is a huge factor in creating passion.

And, have reasonable expectations as well...I would say we have a rocking sex life, but our normal weekly probably averages at 3 times (except when we were HB). We are both really happy with that.

I find when I don't like what is happening and can't tell you specifically about what I don't like that he's doing wrong... it's because I am not aroused enough. Sometimes I do things ahead of time to get myself more there so that I don't encounter that. Because once you do encounter it sometimes it's really hard to get back in the game and you kind of just want to be done.

And, the more frequently that "I get there" the more of that it breeds. It becomes a conditioned response to crave it more. So, sometimes (and this may be against your beliefs so I don't want to be too much here) if you do it by yourself more it actually has the opposite effect of what you might fear. Nope, I really think women are often more a situation of keeping all the equipment fired up.

The fact you are questioning it, you are trying to make it to be a priority is a good first start. Is this a longer term issue, or could it be hormonal? Was it ever really great between the two of you? Did it change more after the infidelity? (Trauma?) So many things to possibly point at.

I will give you a reverse example. I have a friend who was married 14 years. And, they struggled the entire time with their sex life. I was inclined to believe she was just over stressed and over scheduled (they had twin toddlers and she volunteered everywhere and worked full time). I gave her advice time after time. At one point she told me she was going to cease solo activities to see if she would want it more, and nope it got worse. That's why I believe what I said earlier. And, one day, she said "you know, I just think he's not good at it", I really truly believe she never had chemistry with him. They divorced. She remarried, and it's a crazy happy sex life in the new marriage. So, I am not saying it can't be the spouse, but I hear so many women saying what you are saying that I don't think that's always lack of attraction to the spouse over time.

[This message edited by hikingout at 3:14 PM, August 1st (Thursday)]

In my experience this is absolutely true. I’m not a lousy, selfish lover. I love to give pleasure as well as receive. She is not interested at all. She puts out for me, but it’s only for my benefit. I still desire her, I think she’s just as hot now as she was at 20 when I started dating her... if not hotter.

She just says she has no interest in sex... at all. It’s not that I suck in bed... she won’t really even give me a chance to be good in bed! I know a lot of guys in similar situations, honestly.

As far as the outsourcing thing goes, I think my WW would be fine with me paying for the occasional BJ or the odd visit to a strip club (which I really only go to in bachelor party type of situations). I think she understands that I have needs, and that she gets tired of feeling like she’s not fulfilling my needs. I really think she’d welcome the “extra help”. Not something I’m considering at this time, but I don’t really want it to be like this forever.

I agree with Sisoon's take, some theories feel too all or nothing to be credible.

What I've learned over the last 3+ years is that men and women are far more similar than different when it comes to sex. I don't see the whole Mars and Venus world's apart theories I heard when I was younger.

Some men get bored.

Some women get bored.

Most of the time boredom has nothing to do with an affair at all.

Most issues seem to relate to self loathing, low esteem and poor boundaries.

My wife eventually convinced me her A had nothing to do with me or our sex life. She relates sex to feeling connected emotionally to someone. Our M wasn't bad, but there was definitely some distance between us when AP happened along.

Fast forward to today, I think our bedroom is more fun for both of us as we've slowly rebuilt our connection to each other.

Well, I just read the article, and I guess I said a lot of the same things about needing to create more varience and it not being something that will just always naturally be there. Sorry! Didn't mean to repeat what you read! But, I guess I can just confirm those sorts of efforts towards "novelty" do make a difference in my relationship.

This is another one of those polyamory articles, isn't it? What's with the push for this in recent years? Every poly relationship in my circle is a recipe for constant drama so yeah, this shit that these bloggers are selling, I ain't buying. Don't know why they have to make a movement out of their personal sexual pathology.

Oh and one last thought...sorry I feel like I am hijacking your post. But, one seemingly agreed upon difference between women and men is the frequency in which they think about sex each day seems higher for men. Most men I have ever asked say they think of sex multiple times in an hour. I know personally, I can go hours and hours and it never cross my mind unless I am more intentional about it.

And, very generally speaking, it seems their orgasms are more straightforward to get to. So sex can be less complicated (both physically and emotionally) even if that's not true of all men.

Is the fact they think about it more related to the uncomplicated nature of the act for them? Could women benefit from learning to think that way more - with more frequency and less complications- if their desire is to increase their drive and passion?

So if we were to provide a hypothesis over this article given those two pieces of information...could we think the reason that it's women who might get bored on a shorter time frame than a man because her lack of mentally going there in her head hundreds of times a day? Is it our "complications" that hinder that? Mental conditioning? Or is it all hormone driven?

I don't know if I buy into the study they are trying to present here, but I do think that one of the most common things you hear about in real life, in here, in articles is that there is often a mismatch of drive and it's more typically than not one containing a female deficit.

I stand by the belief that when it comes to sex, men are more physiologically driven and women more mentally and since relationships, on a long enough timeline, tend toward couples taking each other for granted, that's why you tend to see a disparity. Again, my dumb two cents, just a general feeling, plenty of outliers and special cases will negate this.

So don't get me wrong, a guy can be turned off by a woman's personality, or her behavior, or by the circumstances, or our own insecurities, or a number of other things. It's just that more often than not, the emotional component is more of a recommendation than a requirement. Point to an evolutionary science study about how men are developed to "spread their seed", or a cultural study that says some societies accept "male promiscuity" more, I don't care. The result is the same and it's right in front of our faces: men, as a group, feel as if they NEED release, women, as a group, not so much. We're primed for sex and our mental hurdles are more "will she have sex with me" and less "should I have sex with her".

I'm going out on a big limb here due to my XY chromosomes and lack of gynecological degree, but I feel comfortable saying that women tend to like being "wined and dined" far more than men prefer getting their ego stroked or something analogous. [Continue to insert the phrase "It seems, to me, that in general, " in front of the following statements] While men will jump into some questionable shit without thinking, women want to feel like they're making the "right choice", and that very much applies to the sexual partner. Convincing themselves that it's the right choice relies on a number of factors and can be entirely subconscious--much of the behavior we scrutinize here happens on a subconscious basis, that's why so many BSs/WSs are constantly fucking up! It's only in hindsight that we can come to some kind of sober, rational conclusion about what happened back there, but I digress...

So you've got two people who are just meh around each other. They stop getting to know each other, but like it or not, both people are continuing to grow and develop and feel new feelings and think new thoughts. And sometimes we notice this "lack of a spark" as people tend to call it, and that's when we start doing some crazy shit if we're not careful. Anyway, I imagine that's when the "sex dries up" or "we fight all the time" and other such tensions arise.

But dollars to donuts, once a couple hits this point, it's usually the woman withdrawing from sexual activities rather the man--unless he's depressed or physically unable to engage for some other reason, or he's cheating.

If a wife gets to this situation and either outright refuses to have sex or has the obligational sex ( worse than. No sex as it also kills ones confidence) but still expects her husband stays faithful to her, is his somehow acceptable?

I don't agree with that initial observation. In my experience, WS was apparently hornier than me because he didn't have the same pressures and things were all going his way. Whereas I was the one doing the lion's share of the daily Drudge when working and not), and putting up with things he chose to do which disadvantaged me and made me unhappy. He may have had a few stresses, but also a lot of positive experiences too. The difference in interest levels wasn't boredom. It was a lot more than that.

This is borne out by the fact that now he is feeling put upon, following dday and restrictions on his behaviour, his sex drive has plummeted to below mine. He cites some of the issues I had before as reasons for it. And if I'm initiating, he often cannot get into it. Is he bored of me? Maybe. Who knows. But that isn't the woman in the relationship getting bored. I'd be just as refreshed and energized by having a new relationship as he was, difference is, I'm decent enough not to seek that out.

when it comes to sex, men are more physiologically driven and women more mentally

I think this depends, at least for me. My desire for sex changes with my menstrual cycle. My fch can always tell when I'm ovulating because that's when I want sex most, even if we've been fighting. I can always tell when I'm about a week from menstruation because I can't stand my fch no matter what he does. I have absolutely no desire for sex.

Men don't have such extreme hormonal fluctuations, so their desire for sex remains pretty constant.

I do think that longterm neglect of emotional needs will eventually turn a woman off. Also, like hikingout said, our desire changes as we age. Biologically, female desire is directly related to fertility. Postmenopausal women, who are more likely to have been in a longterm relationship, may not have much of a libido.

I've been with my fch now for 20+ years. I do sometimes feel bored with our sex life, even though it's pretty amazing. That's when I know it's time to switch things up.

If a wife gets to this situation and either outright refuses to have sex or has the obligational sex ( worse than. No sex as it also kills ones confidence) but still expects her husband stays faithful to her, is his somehow acceptable?

Definitely not, but you can't make someone change. And maybe she's not capable of change, per this article? Your only option for "refusing to accept" is divorce, which I would understand.

Postmenopausal women, who are more likely to have been in a longterm relationship

The article claims that some/many women's interest starts to wane as early as one year into the relationship.

I call bullshit on this. I think most men believe this and use it to justify an affair when they are devoting all their time and attention to their AP. I also think it’s a reason most betrayed men posting refrain from comments on betrayed wives posts-they think yeah but we’re you putting out

I thought it was the well known fact that women get bored because men don’t fulfill women’s emotional needs?

Can I ask what you attribute this to, crazyblindsided?

I'm not sure. Often I think it is because my WS has had an insane sex drive and his constant badgering wore me down to the point where I lost my desire. It was shortly after I had my daughter that he threatened to D if we didn't start having more sex I stepped it up but it felt forced which led me to feeling icky and that brought me back to my childhood abuse.

My last relationship I also lost my sex drive due to how he was treating me (he was abusive).

It's something that eats me up inside. I feel broken but I am learning to accept this is how I really feel.

I don't view sex in a healthy way anymore

If a wife gets to this situation and either outright refuses to have sex or has the obligational sex ( worse than. No sex as it also kills ones confidence) but still expects her husband stays faithful to her, is his somehow acceptable?

Absolutely. There's no excuse for cheating. None. If one or both partners are unhappy enough to cheat, they're unhappy enough to leave. A person in that situation should just be honest. Get a divorce. It's 2019 out there. Divorce is common, socially acceptable, and much more financially equitable than it once was.

I read somewhere recently that 8-10 percent of women are not orgasmic at all. And over the course of a woman's life, even if she started out capable of orgasm, she may develop an orgasmic disorder. I have to wonder if this kind of dismissive attitude would be so prevalent if women routinely dumped (or cheated) on males suffering from erectile dysfunction. It's basically the same thing in that sexual arousal doesn't happen or can't be maintained. For a woman like that, the only reward in the act is closeness and cuddles, so I imagine if the emotional component isn't there... yeah, it's most likely "obligational" or none at all.

In terms of the boredom aspect, believe it or not... sex can be boring, particularly if your mate isn't doing enough to keep you intellectually stimulated. I don't think it matters how much one tries to reinvent the wheel, it's still a wheel. Seen it. But if my MIND is interested... the body follows. Most married people, male and female, are capable of so much more charm than they routinely spend on their mate.

I will give you a reverse example. I have a friend who was married 14 years. And, they struggled the entire time with their sex life. I was inclined to believe she was just over stressed and over scheduled (they had twin toddlers and she volunteered everywhere and worked full time). I gave her advice time after time. At one point she told me she was going to cease solo activities to see if she would want it more, and nope it got worse. That's why I believe what I said earlier. And, one day, she said "you know, I just think he's not good at it", I really truly believe she never had chemistry with him. They divorced. She remarried, and it's a crazy happy sex life in the new marriage. So, I am not saying it can't be the spouse, but I hear so many women saying what you are saying that I don't think that's always lack of attraction to the spouse over time.

HO, I am glad you posted this.

But look at it this way. Suppose you reversed the genders. That would make you a WH. You're a WH, talking to another man, and the man after years of actually having sex with his wife say "you know, I just think she's not good at it." I really truly believe he never had chemistry with her. They (he) divorced. He remarried, and it's a crazy happy sex life (for him) in the new marriage.

The BWs would be aghast, out in force. How bad the woman in that marriage must have felt, how unattractive. Even RideItOut and his legion of SA friends or former friends, those guys tell him lies about dead bedrooms. The fact that they have to lie about that stuff means that even in their "guy talk" they're uncomfortable with simply saying they want more sex, more kinky sex, sex with a younger, hotter woman, whatever they want. They have to justify it, they can't just come out and say it the way women feel they can today.

I accept the fact that there is a double standard in marriage in 2019. That women feel freer to feel discontent about sex or any number of issues.

Whereas many men are more content with the woman at least showing up for sex and being pleasant. It is just the way it is, and I am not going to pretend it isn't. I have certainly seen things from my current GF that could be indicators down the road. Or not. I honestly don't know. I prefer LTR, but it is simply more a roll of the dice for a "good guy" like myself in the world of 2019.

I have to accept we live in this world. But I don't have to be silent about it, or ignorant of it.

AbandonedGuy said:

I keep thinking of this woman I've known for many years who to my knowledge has a perfectly fine home life and a good relationship with her husband. Over the last few months, she opened up about them "having difficulties communicating" and mentioned how they're at that point, 10+ years into their relationship with 3 kids in tow, where they're not appreciating each other as much. This woman has always been very up front with her opinions and is one of the most moral and rational people I know...so it really surprised me when a month ago she starts telling me how she's talking to her girlfriend about how even when you're married, you never stop wanting to have sex with other people. I couldn't believe she was telling me this. To me, this is easily a giant red flag that she's got her eyes on someone in particular--because men and women alike don't just think "I want to have sex with others", there's clearly going to be someone that they have in mind.

I don't know you very well, but just reading this part of what you wrote, I'd say 1) you're right and 2) the person she has in mind might be you.

This is not the sort of intimate information you'd share under normal circumstances.

Beware.

As a woman, I have to say that this is one more article that makes me feel like an alien on planet Mars.

I love sex. Not as in the “I think about it X numbers of time within every moment” physiological, biologically wired kind of way. I just love the emotional connection I feel with an intimate partner that seemingly can circumvent whatever argument we just had or can even the score temporarily of who is caring whatever load there may be for household/daily life issues. That’s not to say the engines are always firing. I do think that is a biological component to it. But the opportunity to further bond with someone I am already bonded with? Yeah..even on a bad day consider me game. It just may take me a little while to physically warm up. But emotionally I’m all in from the start.

I’ve been almost sexless for three years now - and I’m not suffering. This is not a physical drive for me. I’m not bonded with anyone - am not sure I can be again after my experiences. So the sex drive also left when he did. It’s not that I don’t miss the physical component - I do...at times. What I absolutely dread is the emotional process of bonding again...all the somewhat unfamiliar sex I have to have on the way to familiar. I am, to coin the term a friend once used, a serial monogamist. I like familiar sex. Wild sex with the familiar would be ecstatic on occasion...but overall I long for just the familiar. I don’t find that boring...I find that comforting, consoling, reaffirming....it’s own sort of home.

That's nice, truthsetmefree. And I do feel that way about sex in general, but things go wrong over time. I could list those things with people and name some of them. Other times it's been much more difficult for me to explain why I'm not feeling it anymore. And to be honest, I hate feeling this way. I very much want to bond with my partner sexually when I feel he's doing the work, invested, really showing up for the R. But my body and mind do not respond the way I'd like many times. It bothers me and always has.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 10:52 PM, August 1st (Thursday)]