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I'll always love and care for you?Man, you need to get on the 180 now. Trust me when I say that you don't want the marriage that you will end up with if you don't stand up for yourself.She has her head firmly up her ass.

I'm working on 180, but balancing it with trying to support her grieving.  It is not lost on me that I may also have my head firmly up my ass.

BTW, love the quote at the bottom of your signature xhz700

You wanting credit for good behavior: keeping her secret, coddling her emotions, not wanting to rock the boat. You are not going to get it. She wants to protect her ego. In her mind it is important that everyone know that number one it’s not her fault and number two I’m not a bad person.

I think she is completely paranoid about people finding out what she did and the kind of person she is.  I also believe she is only still with me for the comfort of life I provide for her.

I do remember explaining it to my WH once by asking him how long he thought I would grieve if he had died instead of cheated. He was perplexed because of course, he still feels alive. But the person who I thought he was, the person who I knew, the person I could trust... was gone. Whether that person was a figment of my own imagination or not was immaterial. The guy in front of me, wearing my husband's dear face, seemed like some weird doppelganger and MY beloved was gone.. forever. He can never be the same to me. So, how long should you grieve for someone you loved so much?  

It feels so strange.  To look at her and physically see the person that I gave my heart, mind, body and soul.  But to know behind those eyes is an emotional terrorist that has shattered my view of love, trust and reality.

I know it sounds a bit machiavellian to put that MC to work for you, but if you take a step back and look at your situation more clinically, you are, in essence, renegotiating terms for what's sustainable in the long run. You can't know yet how this thing will pan out, but what you do know is that in order for your WW to have a chance with you, she needs to change.

I do feel like I already have conditions in my head about what she would need to do for me to consider fully Reconciliation.  But I'm just not sure how to present it without it feeling like an ultimatum or threat.

Try to make getting your own trauma therapy (with EMDR if possible) a big priority.

I am so sketched out by EMDR.  Why should I be the one to get my brain melted, she should be the one to do it!

Reading through a copy of The Body Keeps Score by Bessel van der Kolk and/or The Journey from Abandonment to Healing by Susan Anderson will help you to understand what's going on in your brain and your body. Once you understand the mechanics of it, it feels so much less terrifying, so it's worth the time and effort. It puts tools in your hands. You can stop catastrophizing and start getting a handle on rumination. 

Thank you for the book recommendations.  I am consuming as much as I can right now.  It really feels like the only thing that is helping me.  At this point, ARC and IC feel like I'm just talking out loud about terrible stuff.  I have received very little direction of what I can do to heal right now so I've taken it upon myself to read as much as I can and try to filter out the best 20% and apply to my situation.

All of the SI responses since yesterday have been amazingly insightful.  I hesitated to post my story because this still doesn't feel real to me.  Thank you to all who have responded and read.  I am taking what is useful and leaving the rest - but considering everything suggested and observed by SI.  Heartfelt thanks to you all.

Take your time. Get your ducks in a row. Keep your options open. Serve YOURSELF first. Make sure that no matter what the outcome of the marriage may be, you'll still be a great dad and a happy human. That's all you can control

Thank you again for the thoughtful response Chamomile.  I've lost 25 lbs since Dday, have started going to the gym, completely cut out junk food, scaled back the casual booze, stopped wasting time with stupid iPhone games and have tried to practice mindfulness and be in the moment more with my children.  Some days I feel so freakin'  strong, other days I feel so inspired that I am on track to finally live up to my full potential.  And on other days I feel that my life is garbage.  But one thing I know is that I will ALWAYS be a great dad, I take pride in my relationship with my children.

"When someone shows you who they are ... believe them."

This hit me hard.  I think you're right WTFOver.  I'm hoping she'll change without considering that maybe she already changed into the person capable of having the A.

Your wife needs a reality check. Give a freezing cold dose of reality - serve her with divorce papers. 

I thought the 3-6 month waiting period was recommended.  I truly want to try to heal, give her a chance to show me ANY action that she's remorseful or a candidate for Reconciliation before dropping the D papers.  Although the more I read here, I'm starting to consider this more and more.

Due to the situation, and how you may look back on it later, maybe be humane and comfort her for the loss of her brother, and at the same time try and save yourself (IC for you, put more focus on yourself and less on her, etc.

Thanks baby puke.  I am straddling the high ground with 180 and it's quite dizzying.

You have to get to a place where you can let go of the outcome. You have been done a massive disservice by this ARC if he can act like you can recover without help from your WW.

We have our 11th session with our ARC tomorrow.  I'm considering making it our last and using some of the comments from SI to justify the reason.

Your WW withdrew from you during the A, and destroyed your M. You are now grieving the death of your M, by yourself. You can't lean on your WW because she caused you the pain, and doesn't seem to be doing much to try to help YOU heal, because it is too hard for HER.

Now, she needs YOU to be her emotional support so she can grieve the death of her brother. And, it's unfair to ask HER to do any work on the M and to try to help you heal because it is all about HER PAIN. Never mind your pain. That's YOUR PROBLEM.

I hope you can see how entirely unreasonable this is.

I do see how unreasonable and unfair this all is.  It also feels unfair that now it is up to me to determine whether or not my kids grow up with married parents or divorced parents.  My wife and I both came from divorced parents and swore that we would never leave each other no matter what.  That commitment was reaffirmed when we decided to have children.  Now I feel like my choices are to be selfish, divorce her and find happiness with someone who will actually love me or work towards R and give the kids a chance to have both mom and dad at home.  No question if we didn't have kids, she'd be on the curb.

What is more important to your WW? Helping to heal the M and the damage SHE CREATED? Or grieving for her brother? It seems to me that she needs to make a choice. Does she need to focus so much on the loss of her brother that she wants to risk the loss of her M? If she can't engage with you, why should she expect you to engage with her to help her? It is a 2-way street. Why is her pain more important than yours?

I'm bringing this up tomorrow at ARC.

Damn, I was so angry when I read 2hat your WW sent him. So, so typical, mine did the same thing, although, long before dday.

You know the feeling Jameson.  Sorry brother.

I haven't even posted about all the times she made up excuses to get out of the house to meet up with her AP.  The fact that they share the same birthday and created cute little pet names for each other based on their Astrological signs.  That, for her birthday, I took the kids away on an overnight trip to Rocky Mountain National Park and left her home alone because for her birthday all she wanted was "time to spend by myself".  She was even calling/emailing the AP the weekend before Dday when I took her out to a fancy birthday dinner downtown, kicked out for a hotel and paid for an overnight babysitter.

I want to unload all of the shit I've had to deal with in this thread because it's cathartic as hell and I can't seem to find another outlet to do so.

That, for her birthday, I took the kids away on an overnight trip to Rocky Mountain National Park and left her home alone because for her birthday all she wanted was "time to spend by myself".

That is one of the most cold hearted calculatingly cruel and selfish thing I have probably ever seen on this forum.

It is her birthday so what she wants is for her family to go away so she can fuck her boyfriend in your home for a few days...

EH:

You do you! It is usually recommended not to make any rash decisions immediately following DDay, and to take your time to make the best decision for you and your kids. There is a lot to consider for logistics with the kids. Three to see six months is a reasonable time period to look at starting recovery. But your WW needs to show you steps she is taking to build a new M based on honesty and affection. if your WW is continuing in her A taking it underground or not showing any signs of remorse that might give you a glimmer that recovery is possible, serve her with D papers. You are in control. You call the shots. As you move forward whatever you decide, you will see that all of your options are unfair to you. Infidelity is harsh and unfair to the BS. It’s best to acknowledge that up front. Be the stable parent for your kids. Time is your ally. Good luck.

[This message edited by fareast at 5:35 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)]

Your WW is following the same path mine did. She got caught and only showed “remorse” when there was the thought her reputation would be tarnished. She went NC with her AP, at least for a while. When the coast was clear, she was back at it, but better this time with hiding her activities – she went underground. After she became comfortable that she was sneaky enough, her activities increased.

Does your state /county offer Dissolution? I ask because it is a lot cheaper than D, and faster, too. The trade-off is you and your wife will decide what happens to everything (custody, child support, the house). If you can resolve this amicably, it will save you a lot of headache and bickering in court. I am suggesting that if this is a possibility for you, you won’t need a lawyer to draft the initial copy for you, saving you time and money. You simply download the paperwork from the court website and fill them in. You can use this to “motivate” your wife to really be transparent. You never have to go through with it, but it may have the same effect as filing for D.

I will always love and care for you

How tender! So she still wants to be tender with him, eh? Then let her go be tender with him – without you!! Does she think she’s still in Junior High??!!

ElvisHeartbreak, vent away brother!!

I have found writing on this site or journaling has been therapeutic for me. I think the reason people like us are so hurt by the words and actions (not sexual) is trying to understand how the one we love and hold dearest, is capable of doing the most hurtful things to us.

My WW and I were HS sweethearts, each others firsts for just about everything (I still am). Mine had a random ONS after we had a fight about.....me not committing to her?!? Yeah!! What kind of person does this!

Thing is, I had this image of my wife that has never been real. The woman I saw was and is not the woman in front of me. That's really tough to come to terms with. At least mine was scared to death on dday. Her A was over, and she was back to being wife (compartmentalizing!!), then dday, totally out of the blue, and she was shell shocked. She had no idea what was coming. She did the self preservation thing, TT, minimizing, all of it, for 3 years.

I finally had to demand (1st time I've demanded anything from her in our 24 years together) that she get into IC and commit to it. I didnt care how long it took, what ugly shit had to be brought up, medication, whatever, I told her in order for me to move forward, she needed to be healthy and deal with her demons.

It sounds like your WW needs the bucket of water to the face, as someone else put it. I love the fact you are not blinded by her brothers death, given they were estranged. I too feel this is being used as a means to deflect from the A.

I'm really rooting for you man! Whether its R or D, you sound like a great guy and hope the best for you.

So, back to the death in her family. She is supposed to support you in your hard times while you support her in hers.

She can't even face the damage without going into protective shell mode. This is one sided support.

Are you 2 sleeping in the same bed? If she is still this broken you need to get some space. At a minimum get your own room to sleep. So at night when you are full of hate, you can get your own outlets fired up without her interfering.

I am glad she started her IC. You need to ask ARC what is expected? You know she cheated, you know she lies and still is lying. She isn't doing any work. ARC appears to be so you can gather more intel. You don't need that.

BTW - Don't let go of all the anger. Anger lets you drive action. Realize what the anger is telling you to do. Is it telling you to leave or to force her to stay? Is it saying take the kids and run? Why would the primal drive of anger tell you that?

Anger runs 100% off the gut. That is what found this affair. Listen to it a little. Figure out its direction.

Good luck. Get some space from your WW. You need it more than therapy.

I do feel like I already have conditions in my head about what she would need to do for me to consider fully Reconciliation. But I'm just not sure how to present it without it feeling like an ultimatum or threat.

Reframe to boundary statements. It's all about what YOU are willing to tolerate in your life, not about parenting a grown ass woman. You're not her boss, her dad, or her warden. You're her husband. But you get to dictate what kind of treatment you're willing to tolerate from other people. So, if your boundary is "I won't tolerate living with a secretive person. Privacy is for the potty, not for passwords." That's a statement about you, not a rule for her to follow. You're just saying what kind of mate you're willing to allow into your life. You're willing to live by your own standards and you're intolerant of people who abuse them. IOW, you're not MAKING her conform to your standards, but you'll only accept a like-minded mate. It's her choice as to whether she's like-minded or not. She's free to go if she isn't, but you no longer accept less than you deserve in your life.

Boundary statements can keep you honest because you really have to decide what's important and what isn't. It's not arbitrary because it's dealing with the fundamentals you find most necessary. You're not controlling anyone else, but you are controlling YOU. And yeah, if she can't or won't conform to your boundaries, she'll read it as an ultimatum. That's her problem, not yours. You're just stating your values and looking for a like-minded mate. If she's not the one, she's free to go and you'll keep looking.

ETA: Try taking those conditions you have in your head and write them down. Then, reframe each one to a boundary statement. You'll see pretty quickly which ones are fair and necessary and which ones aren't. If you're still confused, post them here and the group can weigh in.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 6:13 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)]

Hey Elvis,

Keep the 180, exspose all to everyone and regardless what she asks or requests. The felon’s current wife needs to know re STDs etc.

Go to the funeral with your children in tow, so to fully support her in her time of loss her brother.

She shouldn’t be able to use this excuse to reconnect with the felon POS.

I just feel she is still in contact. The second email sucks.

Sorry brother

If she's going to ARC then presumably she wants to stay in the marriage or is at least putting on the act. If you're still making up your mind but don't want her running off out of town alone, then who f'n cares if she wants you to go to the funeral or not? Pack up the kids and just tell her you're going.

That is one of the most cold hearted calculatingly cruel and selfish thing I have probably ever seen on this forum.

It is her birthday so what she wants is for her family to go away so she can fuck her boyfriend in your home for a few days..

Agreed. That's heartless.

You do not deserve what has happened to your life and marriage. There are some things your wife desperately needs to have burned in her brain by you.

(1) You will not share your wife with another man.

(2) You will not live with a wife that is in love with another man. And, you know she has professed her love for the fat felon with 4 ex-wives. She is more than welcome to apply to be his next ex-wife.

(3) Misery is living with a woman who wants to be with another man.

(4) You chose her to be your wife but you are positive you can replace her just as fast as she replaced you, and maybe even faster. She affaired so far down, you won't have any trouble finding another woman that is 100 times better than her AP.

(5) If he is what she wants you will help her pack and even make the phone call to the fat felon to come and pick her up.

(6) You chose her to be your wife but now she has to prove to you, beyond a doubt, that she really wants you as her husband above all others.

(7) You are not willing to wait months or years for her to start showing you that she does want to be you wife.

(8) You will support her as she grieves for her brother but will not accept that as a reason to not work on fixing what she broke.

(9) You want to save the marriage but you are also willing to lose it rather than for both of you to live unhappily.

(10) The ball is in her court. What she does will determine how the game ends, R or D.

I do wish you well.

[This message edited by anoldlion at 12:14 AM, October 3rd (Thursday)]

Elvis,

You are in an unenviable position. Caught between your need to heal from the betrayal of your WW, and her grief for the loss of her brother.

On one hand, you need to heal yourself, your WW should be doing the work to make herself safe to you again. On the other hand, she is grieving for the loss of her brother, and you want to support her through it. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Well, the first thing you should prioritise, is yourself. Look after yourself first. Heal yourself first. What your WW is going though is her own doing (she had her A, and she estranged herself from her brother). You cannot depend on her for your healing, as she is too damaged.

You will have to do the 180. No if, no buts. You have to do it for yourself to get better. Do not go out of your way to comfort your WW. You cannot heal two people at he same time.

Heal yourself for your kids, as they will need you to be healthy in both body and mind, as their mother is not of sound mind at the moment.

You are also caught in a thought spiral, where you second guess yourself. If you do not give support to your WW, she might seek it in her AP, and hence lose the M. Well, if she does that, then, is your M really worth anything to her? Do not let the baggage of having a successful M because your parents D.

This nonsense that spouses must stick together 'for better or worse' is great if you two are working to weather storms TOGETHER, not when one party steps out to do a solo gig. Wedding vows are made TOGETHER, and not individually.

In summary, look after yourself first and foremost. Your kids need you. Do not worry about your WW, she is an adult. If she blames you for not supporting her through her grief, you can shoot back back telling her that she did not support you through your grief of her killing the M.

ETA: If your WW truly loves you and wants to save your family unit, she will put her issues aside, and bend backwards to help you and your kids. YOU are the prize she needs to win.

[This message edited by RocketRaccoon at 12:18 AM, October 3rd (Thursday)]

Elvis

You have taken a very weak approach to your wife's adultery.

Women do not respect weak men.

Cheaters do not respect weakness because they are selfish to the extreme.

You must tell the OBS, expose her to everyone and implement the hard 180. Kick her out of the bedroom and make her sleep somewhere else. If you leave the bedroom that is just more weakness.

You are doing almost everything wrong. Stop thinking for yourself and start doing what people here are telling you who have been through this hell before you.

If you think she is still communicating with him make her take another polygraph test and ask her if she has communicated with him since she cut off communication in the past. If she is still communicating with him your marriage is basically over.

You are nowhere near reconciliation so stop thinking of your R conditions. She must become remorseful first before reconciliation can begin.

Elvis

You have taken a very weak approach to your wife's adultery.

Women do not respect weak men.

Cheaters do not respect weakness because they are selfish to the extreme.

You must tell the OBS, expose your WW to everyone and implement the hard 180. Kick her out of the bedroom and make her sleep somewhere else. If you leave the bedroom that is just more weakness.

You are doing almost everything wrong. Stop thinking for yourself and start doing what people here are telling you who have been through this hell before you.

If you think she is still communicating with him make her take another polygraph test and ask her if she has communicated with him since she cut off communication in the past. If she is still communicating with him your marriage is basically over and you need to kick her out of the house.

You are nowhere near reconciliation so stop thinking of your R conditions. She must become remorseful first before reconciliation can begin.

[This message edited by CreateAccount197 at 1:47 AM, October 3rd (Thursday)]

Please, please expose to EVERYONE. Not exposing will take a terrible toll on you. You are not doing your kids any favors by letting this issue fester. EXPOSE to every single contact of your wife- all her friends, everybody.

You also must ensure she gets a proper FULL-TIME job so she gets a dose of reality, else she will continue to hoodwink you while you work and provide for her.

Once she gets a job, kick her out. It is beyond obvious she has ZERO remorse. She may even be in touch with that scumbag. Do not be a doormat and rugsweep or you will unnecessarily waste your life on an unremorseful cheater - Kids will be fine as long as you both can co-parent well.

You can read this entire site - there is not ONE single BH who has divorced his WW and ever regretted. Not one. Don't waste your life with an unremorseful cheater.

You will see some genuine WW's here who truly regret their affairs and demonstrate remorse by working hard day-in and day-out to help their BH's heal, and go all-out to prove a worthy wife. Based on what you have shared, your WW fails miserably. Hope you realize this sooner than later. You deserve better, sir.

[This message edited by redbaron007 at 3:40 AM, October 3rd (Thursday)]

I thought the 3-6 month waiting period was recommended. I truly want to try to heal, give her a chance to show me ANY action that she's remorseful or a candidate for Reconciliation before dropping the D papers. Although the more I read here, I'm starting to consider this more and more.

It does not sound like your WW is either interested or capable of the level of empathy and remorse you will need to make life work with the betrayals and manipulations that you have endured.

I think your wife needs a trauma filled kick to the head in the form of some very real and serious consequences. The kind that forces her hand about which fork in the road you she is going to take.

I made D a condition of R to my fWW. To some here that is an extreme tactic, for me her wayward shit sandwich, trauma inducing nightmare onslaught was far more extreme than my insisting on D as a condition to R.

Sometimes, even with the potential to be an empathetic and remorseful fWW, they do not have the necessary level of motivation to own it and be safe without the added stimulus of an extreme and very real consequence.

Whatever you choose to do in this realm, you better be sure that you have the convictions of you rconcious and will to back it up. Ultimatums are not bad things. However they are terrible, horrible lessons if you are too weak to enforce them.

I don't think your WW will ever be the healer and safe empathetic partner you need if there is not a clear and radical consequence that she must face and choose between.

The worse thing you can do is to allow yourself to be consumed by the damaging trauma that an unremorseful WS can heap on you. Don't let delay of action from weakness or indecision eat you up.

She is what you see and experience. Choose your steps wisely and with determination.

[This message edited by DIFM at 5:40 AM, October 3rd (Thursday)]

Elvis,

Whether your WW can do the work depends upon what she views the stakes as being. The two of you very wisely discussed before marriage and then again before children how damaging divorce was in your families and vowed to avoid it no matter what. But that is now on the back of her mind, and informs her insight and motivation about what SHE needs to do now.

So consider filing D (or dissolution) papers as a statement by you that her equanimity is misplaced. As hard as D would be, that is what is at stake. And with D comes exposure as you will not lie for her reputation. That is a huge wake-up call for her, which she needs. You do not have to follow through if she does wake up, but she needs to change her idea of what is at stake here.

Also get “How to Help Your Spouse your Affair” by Linda MacDonald, a pithy, pointed primer on what she needs to DO to re-build the marriage. You read it first and mark it up and give it to with or shortly after the D papers. If the combination of those two things does not wake her up, nothing will.

Oh, and her birthday deception is PRECISELY why you cannot accept her reasoning for wanting to go to the funeral alone. Tell her that. Shame her for that.

EH:

You have received great advice. I agree with anoldlion’s advice as steps moving forward. Set out your boundary statements as things you require in your M. I agree with Odonna to consider filing for D as she needs to realize what is at stake here, and definitely get the McDonald book. Good luck.

That is one of the most cold hearted calculatingly cruel and selfish thing I have probably ever seen on this forum.

Damn MickeyBill, that is even worse considering all the traumatic and awful things the collective SI community has been through.  I mean, I knew it was bad.  Especially when I had packed the kids/gear up in the van that Saturday morning and was lingering for a few moments with her finishing coffee and asked, "You sure you don't want to come along with us?  We've got room and me and the kids would love it if you came along?"  She said no, told me to have fun with the kids and thanked me for her birthday present to spend time by herself.

After Dday, she of course confessed that she met up with AP, got all dressed up and went out for their joint birthday dinner to a wine bar where they had their hands all over each other only a few miles from our home.  Allegedly, they drank 2 bottles of wine, made out in the back of his truck in a restaurant parking lot for a couple hours giving/receiving oral and then she drove home drunk.  She said they didn't have sex, but later she also said she couldn't quite remember all the details because of all the wine.

In one of her many emails to him, she asked her if he "remembered the restaurant parking lot".  The emails help to see where she continues to lie or deflect.

Three to see six months is a reasonable time period to look at starting recovery. But your WW needs to show you steps she is taking to build a new M based on honesty and affection.

The "wait 3-6 months before making any decisions" and the "file D papers now" comments feel split about 50/50. Honestly, without the death of her brother I'd probably lean towards filing papers but am caught up in her grieving for her brother.

Does your state /county offer Dissolution? I ask because it is a lot cheaper than D, and faster, too. The trade-off is you and your wife will decide what happens to everything (custody, child support, the house). If you can resolve this amicably, it will save you a lot of headache and bickering in court. I am suggesting that if this is a possibility for you, you won’t need a lawyer to draft the initial copy for you, saving you time and money. You simply download the paperwork from the court website and fill them in. You can use this to “motivate” your wife to really be transparent. You never have to go through with it, but it may have the same effect as filing for D. 

Checked into it and I believe my state offers this option.  Thanks Beachwalker, glad to see you found the thread.

It sounds like your WW needs the bucket of water to the face, as someone else put it.

I agree with the bucket of water analogy, she doesn't understand the stakes being so high.  I told her we'd take a break this week from talking about her A out of respect for her grieving but it hasn't stopped me from thinking all about it.  It may have been the impetus of me posting on SI at all.  I can't not think about it, I need to vent.

I love the fact you are not blinded by her brothers death, given they were estranged. I too feel this is being used as a means to deflect from the A.

So, back to the death in her family. She is supposed to support you in your hard times while you support her in hers.

Regardless of estrangement or not, grief for everyone is different and I do believe she is very sad about the tragic death of her brother's tragic life.  I also feel there is a tremendous amount of guilt that she and her family are going through.  They all pretty much gave up on him, which is a sad but necessary thing to do when someone you love won't accept treatment.  They tried to help him, but he wouldn't help himself.  They took a hard line but are now likely filled with regret that he died without them getting to do more to actively help him.  It shouldn't be my problem to deal with this on top of needing her to deal with the pain she inflicted upon me, but objectively I see the need to give space for her to deal with this.  It will be her actions after she returns from the funeral and what she does to move on from her brother and fully engage with ME after she gets back that will ultimately show me what needs to be done.  I'll get the ice in the bucket ready for that time.

Reframe to boundary statements. It's all about what YOU are willing to tolerate in your life, not about parenting a grown ass woman. You're not her boss, her dad, or her warden. You're her husband. But you get to dictate what kind of treatment you're willing to tolerate from other people.

Try taking those conditions you have in your head and write them down. Then, reframe each one to a boundary statement. You'll see pretty quickly which ones are fair and necessary and which ones aren't. If you're still confused, post them here and the group can weigh in.

Thanks again Chamomile, the tone of your comments seem very strategic and well thought out.  I appreciate this type of insight and want to avoid being emotionally reactive with whatever I do.  I have a lot at stake in this too.  Boundary statements is something I'm going to work on.  But I hesitate to post too much strategy in this thread, my WW knows about SI but I don't think she knows I've posted - yet.  She may come across this thread and use some of this against me if things move toward D.  I am open to private messages and may share with you/others as I get my thoughts collected.

Keep the 180, expose all to everyone and regardless what she asks or requests.

I will keep up elements of 180, but exposure to everyone feels like the nuclear option and preemptive dissolution to do it now.  Whether I expose her now or later, the impact will be the same.

Go to the funeral with your children in tow, so to fully support her in her time of loss her brother.

If you're still making up your mind but don't want her running off out of town alone, then who f'n cares if she wants you to go to the funeral or not? Pack up the kids and just tell her you're going.

My wife has effectively taken the last 10 days off from even thinking about her A.  We've discussed it exactly once since he died and we got in a fight about it.  She was gone without us for 6 days last week when I sent her on a plane to be with her family as soon as we got news about her brother.  She came home for 3 days this week.  She will be flying back tomorrow for another 4 days for vigil, funeral and burial.  She said it would be best for me to stay home with the kids as it would be 4x more expensive to fly us all down and she didn't want them to see her in her grief.  I asked if she wanted me to be with her and she said she'd rather have me stay with the kids so she knew they were safe.  I expressed my desire to be with her and at the funeral with her family but told her I'd do whatever she needed in her time of grief (taking high road, feeling like a chump).

So I'm hanging back again, this time after giving her elements of the 180 the past few days, assuming she's taken contact with AP underground and focusing on myself and getting used to time away from her with the kids.  Single dad training?

I'm letting go of trying to keep her from contacting the AP.  If she wants him instead of a life with me, fine, just go.  If I find out they to ok their A underground then my decision is so much easier.  I'm going to focus on me while she's gone, get my plan together and present it to her upon her return.

You chose her to be your wife but you are positive you can replace her just as fast as she replaced you, and maybe even faster. She affaired so far down, you won't have any trouble finding another woman that is 100 times better than her AP.

I have started to truly believe this.  I am getting my confidence back and don't feel as emasculated by her actions when I start to think about how much of myself I can control.  This includes considering "other fish in the sea".  Humble brag, I feel attractive, have a great job, travel to really cool places for work, make decent money, am funny, nearing the best physical shape of my life and have two incredibly smart, cute and fun children.  I am confident that I will be fine no matter which direction this thing breaks.

I do wish you well.

Thanks anoldlion.  This list was really great and give me focus on what I've been feeling.

On one hand, you need to heal yourself, your WW should be doing the work to make herself safe to you again. On the other hand, she is grieving for the loss of her brother, and you want to support her through it. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.If your WW truly loves you and wants to save your family unit, she will put her issues aside, and bend backwards to help you and your kids. YOU are the prize she needs to win.

RocketRacoon, your whole post is very helpful. Thank you.

You have taken a very weak approach to your wife's adultery. Women do not respect weak men. Cheaters do not respect weakness because they are selfish to the extreme.

You must tell the OBS, expose her to everyone and implement the hard 180. Kick her out of the bedroom and make her sleep somewhere else. If you leave the bedroom that is just more weakness.

You are doing almost everything wrong. Stop thinking for yourself and start doing what people here are telling you who have been through this hell before you.

If you think she is still communicating with him make her take another polygraph test and ask her if she has communicated with him since she cut off communication in the past. If she is still communicating with him your marriage is basically over.

You are nowhere near reconciliation so stop thinking of your R conditions. She must become remorseful first before reconciliation can begin.

Hard truths here, Create.  I need to hear all sides and appreciate your direct no bullshit response.

You will see some genuine WW's here who truly regret their affairs and demonstrate remorse by working hard day-in and day-out to help their BH's heal, and go all-out to prove a worthy wife. Based on what you have shared, your WW fails miserably. Hope you realize this sooner than later. You deserve better, sir.

You mentioned several things I have already been thinking about redbaron.  I'm practicing patience but won't hesitate to implement into boundary statements.

Whatever you choose to do in this realm, you better be sure that you have the convictions of your conscious and will to back it up. Ultimatums are not bad things. However they are terrible, horrible lessons if you are too weak to enforce them.I don't think your WW will ever be the healer and safe empathetic partner you need if there is not a clear and radical consequence that she must face and choose between. 

Thanks DIFM.  You seem like a strong man to implement what you did, I appreciate your experience and comment.  My WW may not be up to the task, I saw her as a very weak person before the A and the level of work required to dig herself out of this hole is going to take a herculean effort.  I'll find out if she's up to the task and am focusing on myself while I wait.

So consider filing D (or dissolution) papers as a statement by you that her equanimity is misplaced. As hard as D would be, that is what is at stake. And with D comes exposure as you will not lie for her reputation. That is a huge wake-up call for her, which she needs. You do not have to follow through if she does wake up, but she needs to change her idea of what is at stake here.Also get “How to Help Your Spouse your Affair” by Linda MacDonald, a pithy, pointed primer on what she needs to DO to re-build the marriage. You read it first and mark it up and give it to with or shortly after the D papers. If the combination of those two things does not wake her up, nothing will.

I have begun to consider filing more and more these past few days.  Something needs to wake her up.

I gave her "How to Help Your Spouse After Your Affair" and she claims it was one of the reasons that she came clean about "all" the details and the secret email account.  I will read it this weekend when she's at the funeral without us.

We have ARC scheduled for later today. I will be bringing many of the comments presented on this thread to our counselor. This may be our final ARC session for a while, I've gotten more out of three days on SI than I have in 10 ARC sessions so far. And SI posts don't cost $135 a pop.

And as I stated, she's flying out solo for her brother's funeral tomorrow and not back until Monday night. I'm on a work trip from Tuesday morning to Thursday afternoon. So by the end of next week, since her brother's death on 9/24 we will have spent 13 days apart and 3 days together when I return on 10/10. And during that time we will have not really talked about her A for over 2 weeks. That feels like a very generous gift for her and I am at peace with putting hard line on that timeline for her to return to dealing with her A and give her a chance to start doing the work.

I've traveled for work 3 times already since Dday, multiple overnight trips. I'm not afraid of moving on without her, just wish she'd see how important it is for her to fight, be strong and put in work for ME and our KIDS.

I'm hopeful, but the hopium addiction was short lived and I find I don't have the taste for it. I want to be strong, feel strong and act strong. I want to let go of any expectation I have of her working to win me back. I want to be able to think only of myself and my children. I don't want to worry about how my WW will feel if I act one way or another. I want get a Samuel L Jackson wallet (Jules from Pulp Fiction) and be a badass motherfucker and kickass fatherfigure.

Thank you all for giving me the space to vent, the feedback to encourage, challenge and smack back into reality. I love and hate this site.

Please tell the OBS about the man she’s married to.

You said your wife should be the one telling her. Your wife won’t do that. YOU HAVE TO DO IT.