SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

My story:  42 years old, father of 2 (3 and 5 years old) married 9+ years (together 12+ years) to 34 year old woman who has been SAHM with kids for past 6 years.  D-day was August 1, 2019 when I confronted her that I knew.  After months of cold-prickly feelings during our home renovation project, I was tipped off by my sister to search our phone records (we have our cell phones on her discount family plan).  Phone records showed thousands of minutes used in May, June and July.  Nearly CONSTANT calls throughout the day for past 4 months to our flooring contractor (53 year old man, divorced 4x, felon, looks like if Guy Fieri worked at the Wal-Mart tire shop).

Prior to confronting her, I pore over the phone records .  DOZENS of calls daily totaling HOURS of time, all starting when I leave in the morning for work (about 6:30am) and all wrapping up just before I arrive home (about 5pm).  Literally dozens of calls throughout the day, some for mere minutes others for over an hour, on average about 4-5 hours of conversation every day of the week.  Our kids (ages 2 and 4 at the time, now 3 and 5) were home nearly the entire time, the calls started during the end of pre-school (mid May) and continued through summer day camps and mom's morning outs (June/July).  Even more contact in the evenings when I traveled (I traveled a LOT for work during this past summer) and her calls with him would extend into the night, sometimes VERY late at night and then begin again early the next morning.  These calls would sometimes be 2+ hours, one was over 4 hours long.

I find this all out after I arrive at work on a Thursday a little past 7am.  I check the phone records and see that she called him that morning just a little after I left the house.  I see that this is actually real and happening *presently happening* in front of my eyes.  I leave the office and with an urgent sense to do something, tell someone, talk to someone about what to do.  I call my best friend and tell him what I just found out, and that I am driving home to confront her.  He encourages me to BE SMART and have a plan about confronting her.  Or at least a strategy.

In my haze, I reached out to (1) Divorce Attorney to discuss child custody/alimony/cost of divorce and (2) Marriage Counselor in our area that WW had included in previous email after our discussions of needing to seek help for our relationship.  I spoke for 10 minutes to Divorce Attorney to get rough idea of monthly costs I would incur if I simply ended it immediately upon discovery.  Then waited in lobby of Marriage Counselor (without appointment) to ambush Counselor to ask if my strategy of confronting her was healthy.  Thankfully, he saw my crisis and immediate need for help and spoke with me for 2-3 minutes to confirm my peaceful strategy of confronting her and even pre-booked an appointment for us on August 2 if we would choose to seek Affair Recovery therapy.

On August 1 I surprise her at home around noon, put on show for kids to distract them after lunch and ask her to join me upstairs privately.  I ask her to sit on the bed, I tell her I know something is going on, ask her not to lie about it and she confesses that she's been seeing someone. I press her for details and she says "you said you already know who it is" and won't say his name. I ask her to say his name and she reluctantly confirmed she was having an affair with our flooring contractor, a guy nearly 20 years older than her.

I asked her what she was doing with him.  She initially confesses that they "would sometimes meet up and make out in the back of his truck" but that nothing else physical ever happened.  She says she is relieved that I found out and says she will end it right away.  I tell her I want to be there when she calls him to tell him it is over.  HE CALLS HER DURING OUR D-DAY DISCUSSION and the cell phone is in my hand.  I let it go, don't answer, and tell her I need to be present with her RIGHT THEN AND THERE and that she call him back. She calls him and tells him it's over, not to call her again and that she needs to work on her marriage.  After reluctantly agreeing, she calls him back in front of me, is brief and tells him never to call her again, that she needs to work on her marriage. Phone records show this occured at 1:52pm.

Next day, back at MC that I ambushed and was kind enough to accommodate a session.  She TT's the fact that she did more than just meet up and make out with Guy Fieri, she actually met up with him at a hotel not far from our house with the intent to have sex with him.  However, he could not achieve an erection so they simply spent 2+ hours together, naked, laying together while the kids were at Wednesday day camp.  She tells me that in this instance, the OM told her he could not achieve an erection due to "him thinking about your (me, the husband's) situation".  I reject this as her trying to somehow make me a hero, that because I'm such a good guy the dirtbag couldn't get it up.

We continue our affair recovery counseling about once a week through the month of August.  I keep feeling that there is more to her story and she maintains that they only tried to have sex that one time, he was unable to do so, and that the only other times they met up they just "made out" in his truck but that they always had their clothes on and nothing more than above-clothing petting.  That they never were seen together in public, just backseat make-out sessions, he gave her oral once at the hotel but she never reciprocated.  That they had phone sex, FaceTimed naked together and masturbated together about a dozen times - but that they never climaxed together (this matters somehow?).  I asked if she loved him and she says they had an inside joke where they would say "I kinda love you" or "I think I kinda love you" to each other, but that after meeting with our Affair Counselor she realizes this was a fantasy world with her AP and that while she "loved the way he made me feel" she didn't think she actually loved him.  In my mind, loving the feeling is loving the person who gave you the feeling.

All of this is terrible, but I keep telling her that this doesn't make sense, nobody meets up to make out like high school kids and communicates as much as they did to only keep this "R" rated.  She expresses frustration at me not believing her, reassures me that this is all that happened.

I bring this up at in front of the counselor at one of our sessions and she again denies anything else happened, the counselor tells us that I am unable to believe anything she says right now and that nothing will make me feel like she is telling the truth.  My gut continues to tell me she's lying (you can see where this is going).

On the morning of 9/1/19 we are lying in bed and I am researching polygraph services in my area after reading various SI posts.  She sees me and is taken aback.  I had asked her to read "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair" earlier that weekend and she did.  I tell her I'd like her to take a polygraph because I feel there is so much more to her story, and beg her to tell me everything right now and not wait for the polygraph for the truth to come out.  So instead of a parking lot confession, I get a bedroom confession at the threat of polygraph.

She confesses that they in fact met up to have sex on 3 separate occasions, the first time successful where he physically penetrated her in the back of his truck at a local park in broad daylight.  The second time was when they met up at the hotel but he couldn't get an erection.  The third time he drove her to one of his home renovation project sites and attempted to have sex at that house but again he couldn't achieve an erection.  That there were multiple times where she gave/received oral, that there was one instance where she met up with him to have dinner/drinks at a local wine bar where they were clearly together in public.

Not only did she give me way more details, she gave me the login to the secret email account they used to communicate. I was initially told they only talked on the phone, met up in person whenever they could but no emails/texts.  The emails exposed the true nature of her affair.  So much graphic information, pictures, sexy talk, references to their encounters, her telling him when I was headed to the airport for work travel, me piecing together the timeline for where I/my kids were when the messages were being sent.

Their communication pattern was this:  I leave for work at 6:30am (or was out of town traveling), they begin their phone calls as soon as I leave the house, and average 4-5 hours of conversation until I get home at 5pm.  Then the emails begin.  2-3 different email threads throughout the night, different topics (all sexual) and email conversation from 5pm until midnight when we go to bed.  Dozens of emails per day.  So essentially 18 hours of contact with AP on daily basis from mid-May to August 1 (12 weeks).  She kept herself in a constant state of arousal and would talk about her strong passion for him, how much she wanted him and told him she'd be with him if her circumstances were different (if she didn't have kids).  I read every single email.

Her emails with him extended to her offering to help him find a nursing home for his ailing mother, her daydreaming about taking trips together with him, her sending him links of clothing to buy, her telling him she'd love to go to a concert with him at Red Rocks, her concern for him not to drink and ride his motorcycle.  More than just hot dirty talk, she was invested in him EA and PA.

I still have access to the email. He has written to her several times since I confronted her on 8/1/19 but she claims to not have had any contact with him since she told him it was over on 8/2/19 (yes, the day AFTER she had claimed was the last time she talked to him on 8/1/19. She claims to have not even checked the email since she told me about it but I have no way to believe/verify. I've thought about what to do with this access. I've thought about deleting the account altogether. But for some reason I keep it and go back and read and re-remember the awfulness.

What hurts the most is when I see that she sent him these emails in plain sight, right next to me, so many times.  On the back porch as we sat together after putting the kids down.  On the couch during a commercial break from a show we were watching together.  At the mall with my mom/kids while we were treating them to a day out.  At our family 4th of July party while we were all hanging out.  Laying RIGHT NEXT TO ME IN OUR BED TOGETHER, she'd email him and tell him how horny she was for him and all the things she wanted to do with him.  She was CONSTANTLY on her phone, I called her out on it a couple times but I never thought she was carrying on like that.

I feel so humiliated, emasculated, invalidated, used and embarrassed.  She gave away everything that was special to me about her to a fat, fifty-three year old, four time divorced, flooring contractor and felon.  In 12 weeks, she destroyed our 12 year relationship.

We've continued Affair Recovery counseling and both began Individual Counseling.  She began to create a timeline for me to understand when things started, where they occurred but we've only gotten through the first 3 weeks.  We listen to audio books (Not Just Friends, Getting Past the Affair) together after the kids go to sleep for about 30-45 minutes maybe 2-3 times a week.  Other nights we take a break and just veg out.  We play pretend that everything is ok in front of our kids all day long and on weekends, in front of neighbors and family (hello rug sweeping).

She has shown zero signs of remorse, was told by our Affair Recovery counselor that she "compartmentalizes painful events to not feel them" and has told me she is just a shell - that she's sorry she hurt me - but none of that feels genuine.  I was told to get below my anger and talk to her about my feelings, that that would open her up to be vulnerable and potentially feel empathy, and ultimately remorse, for what she did to me.  But that it was my job (as the BS) to NOT bring up painful events or email messages shared because that would cause her to pull away and maintain the hard shell of no feeling.  That it was up to me to help her heal (and up to her to do IC) to eventually work towards being able to help me heal.

This is killing me.  I'm the injured party but it's my job to help her heal first?  I have to get below my anger and share my feelings of why I'm hurt?  Then I have to wait for her to figure out how to heal from a painful childhood and that one day she'd then be able to show me remorse for destroying my life?

I have been reading SI for a few weeks but only recently started posting.  Thanks to anyone that read this far.  There is so much more to share that recently happened but I need to cut this off before it gets any longer.

Dude, I'm sorry you're here, it's going to be a long road ahead. The betrayal and disrespect she's shown you is brutal, but it sounds like you're handling this WAY better than I did. Try to take care of yourself and the kids. Have you thought about changing the password on the email account so she can't get into it and you'll know if he emails. It would preserve it in case you need evidence in the future, or send all of the emails to an account that you control.

What you're seeing from her is why she had the affair: She doesn't love you anymore AND she doesn't want you love you anymore.

However, you are her comfortable future, her security; so she won't leave you for him.

But when it comes to sex, she's so turned off by you that she prefers an old man that can't get it up.

I know you want to work it out with her, but you can't stay in this relationship the way it is for very longer. Give yourself a date (like 3 months) that if she hasn't started showing remorse, if she hasn't started trying to repair things, if she hasn't started acting like you're the prize, then at the end of that timeframe, it's time to D. She can't know about this or she will attempt to fake it.

Last thing...I'd bet good money that if the A hasn't been taken underground, that she's at least still in communication with him.

I am really sorry to say that your MC is wrong. I would explain to him just like you explained it to us. Share your pain, trauma and other things that are underneath your anger. Stop acting like everything is OK. It is not. Let your W see you breakdown and cry sometimes.

This is a trauma like no other and he is not treating as such.

The common thinking is that IC needs to happen before you can begin to work on the M. Plus don't share ICs or use the same MC for IC. All different therapists.

She won't be remorseful for a long while. She still is wrapped up in her manufactured lies she told herself.

She had a long time to re-write the M history painting you as a horrible husband. She is still clinging to that because she can't face the fact that she isn't really who she thinks she is.

Rather she can't be the good wife, mother and human being she thinks she is and still have an A. . .that is without shifting blame onto some one else (You). She doesn't see this as "her fault." She likes being a victim. Remind her that she is not a victim, but rather the perpetrator. You are the victim.

Her A had nothing to do with the M. Nothing. It was her choice that she made, without your involvement, knowing that you would never agree to it. That is selfishness to the extreme. Sociopathic type of behavior.

I think you should point out to your MC the victim mentality is preventing her remorse. Not compartmentalization.

FWIW Is there a way you can confirm NC ? Further I think a polygraph should still be done. I'd doubt if she has been 100% honest with you. If she has then she is first WS I've seen to do that.

Elvis HB,

So sorry that you are going through this. Others will come along with much more experience than I, but I just wanted to say that I find this recommendation by the MC to be very inappropriate. I think his recommendation should focus on what SHE should be doing. Most here recommend no MC initially, until she does the necessary workin IC. From my own personal experience, I totally agree. Also, STR testing for both of you as soon as possible. Will keep you in my prayers.

I was told to get below my anger and talk to her about my feelings, that that would open her up to be vulnerable and potentially feel empathy, and ultimately remorse, for what she did to me. But that it was my job (as the BS) to NOT bring up painful events or email messages shared because that would cause her to pull away and maintain the hard shell of no feeling. That it was up to me to help her heal (and up to her to do IC) to eventually work towards being able to help me heal.

This is why we typically don't recommend MC before IC. The MC is there for The Marriage. But the marriage didn't cheat on you, your WW did. She needs to fix whatever defect is in her character which allowed deceit and betrayal to be a valid choice in her mind.

You jumped right into R with her and she hasn't had to deal with the reality that you might actually end the marriage and leave her. For her, the stakes aren't all that high because you're pretty much a sure thing. And really, it's not unusual for BS's to experience that kneejerk desire to repair and return to status quo. But the fact is that you haven't had time to REALLY process this betrayal. Adultery might actually be a deal-breaker for you... or it may not. You can't KNOW yet because you're still reeling from the shock and haven't had time to take it all in.

Believe me when I say that I KNOW what those emails can do to a person. I saw it all.. photos, videos, the willful deception, the demeaning of the BS. It's awful. But instead of dealing with your trauma, your MC is doing a balancing act between you and your WW in an attempt to keep her engaged in recovery. Betrayal on this magnitude isn't just a speed bump in your marital history. It rewires your brain, puts the amygdala into hyper-alert causing the body to produce stress hormones, and it just goes on and on. Hell, I was so sick that first few months after DDay, I'd have divorced my WH on the spot if it meant my stomach would stop torturing me.

If you've not done so already, do see your doctor for stress management and for STD testing. Consider going back to that attorney and getting a more thorough analysis of what divorce might look like. You might even think about putting MC on hold for awhile until you can get your own trauma assessed and begin treatment. Ask your MC for a referral to a therapist who is well-versed in trauma and infidelity and who is trained for EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing). EMDR doesn't take the bad memories away, but it can take the heat out of them and make them more manageable. The prefrontal cortex (logic) of the brain doesn't communicate well with the amygdala (fight, flight, freeze), so you can't just talk yourself out of hyper-alert. EMDR helps move the information so you can process it.

On a side note, it would probably be wise to send your WW back to work. She's seriously abused your good nature and your generosity. Worse, she hasn't even been a present parent as a SAHM. Should R fail, you'll be in a better financial position regarding child support/custody and spousal support if she's working. She's obviously had too much time on her hands and not enough work to do as witnessed by her behavior.

I know it doesn't feel like it right at the moment, but you WILL be okay. Believe it.

Strength to you.

You know you broke cardinal rule #1 for SI. You never ever go to MC until the WS is remorseful.

If she is a shell, she is not feeling the pain. She is shame spiraling and is hoping to float until you forgive her. Go read some posts in Wayward Side. It will show you where your wife's head is at.

You need to move out of the bedroom. The kids won't know any different. You should also tell the MC that you are done with the MC until your WW gets her shit together. The MC will argue a little, but you have to look her in the eyes and say, "None of this is my fucking fault. She needs to start fixing herself and stop lying. It is the first part of the book "How to help your partner heal from your affair." If she isn't fixing the marriage she broke, then the MC is a waste of time."

Your WW should post over in the wayward side. They will tear through her bull faster than an IC who will gently explain things to her.

You are angry right now. You need to push her away and dig into it. The anger will last a couple of months. Hence you move out of the bedroom and stop talking to her. It is giving her the wrong idea. She slightly thinks you are ok because you are pushing to reconcile. There is nothing driving her to fix this besides your feelings.

Use the anger to start working out. Stop pretending things are ok for the neighbors. That will just hurt you. Send her to her parents on a couple of your days off and tell them what happened. They will be willing to help you most likely. Then you can feel the love of your family without her stinking up those moments. That is real therapy. Plus it will give her time to get her crap together.

Sorry, you are hurting right now. This is the worst part. When the WS thinks they can just turtle on the truth and let the BS suffer.

If you want to be weaker than all this. Just mention she had better start getting her act together. Because if she doesn't, when the kids leave the house, you will follow if it still hurts like it does now. The scars of the affair carry on for years. This initial response will haunt her for the rest of her life.

I hope you are journaling. She needs to start right now. This will help in the future.

Good luck! Don't be afraid to drop divorce on her. It takes a year and forces action. Plus it only costs a couple of hundred bucks to file yourself typically.

Don't delete those emails. They will be useful in having her see how bad things were when she gets out of the fog. It will help her see your pain.

[This message edited by DoinBettr at 1:27 PM, October 1st (Tuesday)]

Thanks to those who read the novel of my first post and already responded. I'll try to provide some feedback with details I left out.

Have you thought about changing the password on the email account so she can't get into it and you'll know if he emails. It would preserve it in case you need evidence in the future, or send all of the emails to an account that you control.

I did change the password the day she gave me access. I didn't tell her I changed it. She emailed him twice on 8/2/19, the day after I told her any more contact with him and she would be kicked out. He emailed her 5 times in August, she read them all but says she didn't reply. He's emailed her twice in September, the last time on 9/3. I have asked her repeatedly if she has checked the email but she says no. Once she said "I don't even know if you've changed the password or not so I haven't checked". This tells me she tried unsuccessfully to check.

But when it comes to sex, she's so turned off by you that she prefers an old man that can't get it up.

We had a LOT of hysterical bonding sex in August, a good amount (but less) in September. But your point is valid for when she began the A in May.

I know you want to work it out with her, but you can't stay in this relationship the way it is for very longer. Give yourself a date (like 3 months) that if she hasn't started showing remorse, if she hasn't started trying to repair things, if she hasn't started acting like you're the prize, then at the end of that timeframe, it's time to D. She can't know about this or she will attempt to fake it.

I was thinking 6 months, but 3 months might be better. However, to throw a wrench into any timeline for recovery, her brother was tragically killed last Tuesday 9/24 by a hit and run driver. Now her complete attention is on the grieving of her brother (whom she was estranged from for the past 4 years due to his mental illness, eating disorder and being a danger to anyone around him). My biggest struggle now is how do I balance my needs to recover with her situation of grieving her dead brother and sad family?

Last thing...I'd bet good money that if the A hasn't been taken underground, that she's at least still in communication with him.

My gut has been telling me this for weeks. Burner phone from Wal-Mart, social app to communicate, different secret email address. I put her on a plane last Tuesday night to be with her family and deal with her brother. Told her I needed her to communicate with me while she was gone. She barely called or texted, I had to ask her to FaceTime with kids and told me later that she thought she did a good job of communicating with me. My fear is that she's been talking with him the whole time while down there.

The common thinking is that IC needs to happen before you can begin to work on the M.

Most here recommend no MC initially, until she does the necessary workin IC.

To be clear, we are working with an Affair Recovery counselor, not a marriage counselor. I think there's a difference because our conversations focus on the affair, not the marriage. We have both started IC with different counselors. Her first session was the day she found out her brother was killed.

FWIW Is there a way you can confirm NC ? Further I think a polygraph should still be done. I'd doubt if she has been 100% honest with you. If she has then she is first WS I've seen to do that.

I had her take a polygraph on Friday 13 (9/13). She passed but of course there are a million questions I had but could only ask 10.

You jumped right into R with her and she hasn't had to deal with the reality that you might actually end the marriage and leave her. For her, the stakes aren't all that high because you're pretty much a sure thing. And really, it's not unusual for BS's to experience that kneejerk desire to repair and return to status quo. But the fact is that you haven't had time to REALLY process this betrayal. Adultery might actually be a deal-breaker for you... or it may not. You can't KNOW yet because you're still reeling from the shock and haven't had time to take it all in.

On the nose. I keep telling her this is Recovery, not Reconciliation. But my actions of rug sweeping daily for sake of kids/appearances with friends/family/neighbors is definitely a weak play in standing up for myself. I feel that asking her to move out would hurt the kids more than help her see the stakes are high. I still travel for work quite a bit, I need her to watch the children.

If you've not done so already, do see your doctor for stress management and for STD testing. Consider going back to that attorney and getting a more thorough analysis of what divorce might look like. You might even think about putting MC on hold for awhile until you can get your own trauma assessed and begin treatment.

I had her get STD tested on 9/3, she came back clean. Had blood pressure checked yesterday at annual physical and was normal. Had 30 minute consultation with divorce attorney yesterday to understand logistics of child support/maintenance. I'm going to ask our Affair Recovery counselor how what we are doing with him is different than MC and slow it down if its too much before IC progress is made.

On a side note, it would probably be wise to send your WW back to work. She's seriously abused your good nature and your generosity. Worse, she hasn't even been a present parent as a SAHM. Should R fail, you'll be in a better financial position regarding child support/custody and spousal support if she's working. She's obviously had too much time on her hands and not enough work to do as witnessed by her behavior.

Before her brother's death last week, she was starting to work part time (InstaCart grocery delivery) as she continued to look for a better full time job. After talking to Divorce Attorney, I understand the importance of her going back to work full time. That is the goal now.

You need to move out of the bedroom...Stop pretending things are ok for the neighbors. That will just hurt you. Send her to her parents on a couple of your days off and tell them what happened. They will be willing to help you most likely. Then you can feel the love of your family without her stinking up those moments. That is real therapy. Plus it will give her time to get her crap together.

I'm hesitant to make any of these 180-type moves now with the grief of her brother's death. This is the new struggle, I get to take a further seat in the back. I'm afraid she's going to hide behind the grief/guilt of her dead brother instead of engaging in any recovery towards remorse for me.

You should EXPOSE her with ALL family and close friends, you even suspect she's still in contact with OM, if that's the case you're just wasting your time in MC, reading books and all the other stuff, nothing kills an A faster than FULL EXPOSURE, it also shows consequences and helps prevent any future betrayals, she should apologized to everyone for exposing you to potentially deadly STDs and for destroying the M and for risking the stability of the children's future. EXPOSE now and if OM is married tell OBS immediately. Keep posting, the collective wisdom of SI can help you during this difficult situation, every case is different but cheaters typically follow a script and we've seen it play out literally THOUSANDS of times.

I am sorry for the mess you are in.

Also sorry for your loss on the death In Your family. I had the same situation - DDay2 and then a few days later a death in the family (unexpected). I had already told my H he had to leave and we were Divorcing a few days prior.

I just kept moving forward. It was my relative that passed so I kept it separate. Two different situations but just devastated by it all.

I think your wife continues to lie out of fear. She doesn’t understand the further harm she is causing. Like most cheaters they think they can lie their way out of it.

It’s not always the Affair that destroys the marriage but the behavior after DDay that is the reason for the failure to reconcile. She is making the typical mistakes and does not appear willing to face the fact that she caused all of this. She wants to bury her head in the sand sadly.

I think she knows you changed the password to the secret email account too. That is a string indicator that she would risk her marriage AND the chance to Reconcile with you for an opportunity to speak with him.

That is not a good sign. That shows just how emotionally connected she was/is. That is why I had DDay2. He “ended” his Affair but my H continued to cheat. It just went further underground and was very well hidden.

I wish you the best. This is a highly emotionally painful time. You will survive it. We all do. But is stinks. And I know about pretending in front of the kids. I should get an Academy Award for my performance

[This message edited by The1stWife at 3:19 PM, October 1st (Tuesday)]

Please include a full sexually transmitted disease workip with your physician.

I would use her vulnerability after losing her brother to force her to come clean with the polygraph

You have received a lot of good advice. The only advice I would give you, and this is only me, but if it were me I would be there to support her with compassion for her loss in any way I could while she processes the sudden death of her brother. This has got to be traumatic for her entire family. I always want to look back and say that I took the high road and be proud of how I conducted myself. She is still your W. She has obviously betrayed your trust and hurt you badly, but there is no need to sink to her level. Just my two cents. Blood luck

[This message edited by fareast at 3:42 PM, October 1st (Tuesday)]

Now her complete attention is on the grieving of her brother (whom she was estranged from for the past 4 years due to his mental illness, eating disorder and being a danger to anyone around him). My biggest struggle now is how do I balance my needs to recover with her situation of grieving her dead brother and sad family?

While it's very sad that your BIL died unexpectedly, I don't think it's fair to you that your WW be allowed to milk you for sympathy right now. It would be wiser for her to consider how quickly life can change and utilize that impetus to strengthen her resolve to be a kinder, gentler, more honest individual. IOW, she should be USING the grief/existential crisis to fuel recovery, not hiding behind it behind it in an effort to avoid facing her own demons.

Think of it like this, if she wants a time out for grieving, she can have it... but not with you. If she wants you there, she needs to engage every day no matter what else is going on and she needs to be bringing her best efforts to it. By all rights you could have divorced her out of hand and publicly condemned her as an adulteress, so you've already gone well beyond the call of decency. She's not dealing with the just consequence of deceit and betrayal today and that's a GIFT you gave her. If she can't/won't appreciate the opportunity you're providing to her, it can always be withdrawn.

Your days of taking a bunch of immature crap off your WW are done... the minute you decide it's so.

12 weeks,

There are replies to your post that are much more helpful than I can be, but something you said really resonated with my own betrayal. Sexting the AP while sitting next to me, or while we were out together - that really tore me up inside. I understand your anger and hurt because I am right there with you.

My deepest sympathy that you had to join us, and I hope things work out for you and your children.

She has shown zero signs of remorse, was told by our Affair Recovery counselor that she "compartmentalizes painful events to not feel them" and has told me she is just a shell - that she's sorry she hurt me - but none of that feels genuine. I was told to get below my anger and talk to her about my feelings, that that would open her up to be vulnerable and potentially feel empathy, and ultimately remorse, for what she did to me. But that it was my job (as the BS) to NOT bring up painful events or email messages shared because that would cause her to pull away and maintain the hard shell of no feeling. That it was up to me to help her heal (and up to her to do IC) to eventually work towards being able to help me heal.

Do you ever watch Gordon Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares or any of those other shows where they fix up failing businesses? This is the marriage equivalent of finding out your restaurant has been selling moldy chicken. MC needs to stop IMMEDIATELY. It is a waste of time, money, and your MC is actively damaging R for you by enabling your WW's remorseless behavior and putting the burden on you to fix her. NO. That is not how any of this works.

Step way back from R. R is not possible if all your WW wants to do is pretend to be okay and not even feel guilty about hurting you. She WILL cheat again under these circumstances if she's not already. Focus on yourself. Focus on your kids. Focus on IC for yourself with someone other than that MC. Read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Dr. Robert Glover. Read the 180 and implement it. You don't have to be cruel especially when she too is going through something but you also do not need to be her beacon of support after she stabbed you in the back.

If your WW does not find remorse, does not find empathy for you, and ultimately does not do the work of R, you need to be prepared to save yourself from this sinking ship. You need to prepare yourself for the likelihood of her cheating again. Staying in limbo, attempting to "fix" your WW for her, or rugsweeping are not options because you deserve better.

I'm sorry you are here. Its the club that no one wants to be apart of.

I really hate that they use the "painful childhood" card. I had an awful childhood too complete with abuse, physical, emotional and sexual, but I'm also not sleeping around on my fWH. Being a drug addict or anything else illegal.

That really grinds my gears.

She should be checking on you, assuring you, showing remorse and proving to you that you are what she wants and where she wants to be. That 'woah is me, I'm and empty shell, I don't feeling anything' is BS man.

It's very difficult to get a wayward's attention unless they believe (really believe) that you will divorce them rather than tolerate infidelity.

When you offer R too soon they see that as weakness and a second chance to cheat.

You must show zero tolerance for her infidelity (including stone walling you). Set a time limit and then inform her of your decision to D or R. In the meantime have your attorney draw up the papers and discuss the arrangement with your wife (this sends a message).

I don't accept her stone walling you. She's simply avoiding taking responsibility for her behavior and decisions (at best she's immature).

Is your wife emotional over the lost of an estranged brother's death? If she can show emotion over 'him' (as you describe him), she should be doing back flips to repair the damage to her husband and the father of her kids.

Just exactly how much parenting did she do while in the middle of this thing? It sounds like your children were not even on her radar.

His age, his weight, his job, do not matter. What matters are the lies. Until you know for sure that it is over you can’t believe or reconcile anything.

I did not have an affair to fight against so I have no life experience to help you. My husband just enjoyed a little out of town fun. The only advice I can give you is that you need to take care of your health. Too many bs find themselves fighting serious illnesses because of long term stress. Get out of infidelity as quickly as you can. However you can.

Get your money back for the work he did.

Expose him professionally.

Expose him to everyone else.

Why is it so easy to picture this loser.

Hi ElvisHeartbreak, I'm so sorry you find yourself here.

It sounds like you dealt with dday better than others, better than I did. I agree with others, there is a high likelihood this has gone underground. Pretty hard to go from 18 hours / day contact to nothing, given she isn't showing remorse.

It's good you had her do the poly, and 10 questions is much more than most people get to ask (I've read most get 3-5). If possible, you might want to check out other counselors and get a second opinion, even if it's on your own. I'm not sold on the whole compartmentalization thing. My WW says it's how she was able to separate two lives, but that's all methods to manage the feelings of guilt from awful actions.

In terms of her brothers death. I would stay firm but maybe lighten up on A talk for a reasonable amount of time. My WW attempted suicide in front of me so I'm probably more sensitive to mental health issues than I was before.

Saying that, she can mourn and be remorseful at the same time. Showing remorse and really looking at yourself is hard work. When I read WW's and WH's that are saying all the right things but cant demonstrate concrete actions they have taken are simply showing their spouses

exactly how important they are.

I think back at my dday and months after. My WW said all the right things but when it came to actions, she failed. It's hard work, and she did want to tackle her issues until I demanded she address her problems.