SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Well, congratulations on finally getting a little fucking mad!!!!!
I feel like there was significant forward progress at least on her understanding the pain she caused me, even if I haven't gotten what I wanted yet.
There is no progress. How nice, she chooses you. Thats ass backwards. You should be the one choosing her because she has gotten it right.

I haven't chosen her yet.

There is still NOT ONE THING she has done. So she told you she is still not cheating on you. How touching of her.

She gave me her phone. She is (either lying and continuing the A, I'm not blind, or) reporting any work related contact as agreed. She gave me electronic access. GPS location. She wrote up the basis for an uncontested divorce. These are things. They just aren't true NC/the job.

She still thinks cheating is no big deal, she still refuses to give up the job, and you are still walking on eggshells.

False on both accounts. First she agreed that she was in the wrong on keeping secretes for her friends and from those affected, and has called her sister to tell her she should tell her husband. She will be making other calls over time. She made one during lunch today. I have a timetable I'm happy with that is best for me as it relates to talking to the BIL, and the other friends, and filing for divorce if needed.

You keep stating if you demand anything its either that or divorce. Until she believes that that is exactly what will happen you are going to get nowhere.

I want her to want to make good decision, not to want to stay with me. I don't want her acting out of fear of the unknown

Now before you know it she will be on her little trip with him right there. Are you going to take ANY action of just sit home and hope????

I will take action commensurate with my desires.

And yes, any action you take WILL involve demands.

It will involve wants because ultimatums won't work, because I won't use them.

TIF why haven't you made it clear to her that going on a trip and staying in the same hotel with the OM is a hard Rubicon border for you that she dare not cross or you will D her?

See above. I want her to make good decisions because they are good decisions. I'm not going to monitor her and reprimand her like a dog. While I'm happy with our progress and direction I still want more (specifically true NC).
You guys seem to have a much tighter definition of having done "nothing" than me. Her mental block on true NC, whether FOO related or because she is still in the A, I'm going to give a little more time. Through multiple conversations on value and pain, she was able to change her mind without me forcing her to with respect to talking to her sister. It might just be a few more to get to another shared understanding on true NC.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 3:51 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:45 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

I have been accused of having Asperger's/being on the spectrum by many people, but my doctor doesn't think so.

Your doctor doesn't sound like he knows what is going on.

Asperger's is defined by not understanding other people's emotions or feelings as well as not understanding your own. It presents as a lack of picking up on social queues.

Either you don't understand your own feelings of rejection or you are restraining and bottling them.

Do not process these without at a minimum writing them down. Your wife and these "Wants" are just a joke.

You wanted your wife to tell the truth. She didn't.

You wanted your wife to be faithful. She wasn't.

You wanted your wife to come back and be loving and understanding of your pain. She wasn't.

So, your wants are registering. You needed the MC to tell your wife she needed to do something about other people cheating in your life.

Here, I will make this logical for you. Every time you make one of these "Want" statements for anything, write it down. Then document her response. After a couple of weeks of these, you will see she doesn't care about your "wants." Do a number comparison.(I bet you have a number based job) She is messed up and only sees her pain. She doesn't know you are hurt.

Think a year down the road. What do you expect her reaction to be when you bring up your panic attacks while she is gone or your mistrust when she hides her phone? Don't tell us MC is going to fix that, she is not even trying to see things your way currently. Your communication style needs a lot of work before MC will work because she doesn't understand it.

You two need to get a communication class together or do some online stuff. You also need to stop being afraid to show your wife your feelings. The good and the bad. She cherry picked and you ended up here.

Do you see what I am saying?

What do you expect her reaction to be when you bring up your panic attacks while she is gone or your mistrust when she hides her phone?

I don't panic when she and I are apart. I can look at her phone whenever I want.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 3:51 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:45 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

They just aren't true NC/the job.

TIF, as long as there is contact, the A continues! In your diagnosis of it being illogical you are just WRONG. She will not leave the job because it gives her access to POSOM, no matter how small, the A is surviving on crumbs, until YOU get over this. Then they can continue. Not FOO and not illogical at all.

[This message edited by DeWittle at 4:15 AM, February 13th (Thursday)]

I can look at her phone whenever I want

I would worry she had another phone.

I don't panic when she and I are apart. I can look at her phone whenever I want.

You are way too smart a person to not know how silly that statement is. She can delete anything she wants to and she doesn't even have to use the damm phone if she uses work phones or work e mail.

Does OM send you his schedule when he is going to work at her location???

You have stated every possible reason why that job should not mean that much to her. She's overworked, underpaid, and has the skills to find an equal or better job.

what you refuse to believe is that she is clinging to that job because if she leaves it and you find any communication she is caught red handed, but as long as she is in that job she controls what you know and how it can be spun.

And again, this SIL crap is a diversion for you to be able to rationalize doing nothing.Your sister in law is not the one going to a hotel in a few months with a guy she was pursuing. Your wife is.

Again, no one is telling you to divorce. But you are looking for some guarantee that no matter what you do that it will all end with your marriage intact. no one can guarantee that unless you just let her do whatever she wants to.

It's amazing. This wife of yours thinks women cheating is Ok, has a sister who is fucking other men, girlfriends who are fucking other men, and she's fine with it as long as their husbands are clueless. Yet you think of course she is not doing that because she says so.

You're an analytical guy. This defies analysis.

Thank you Beyond Rage.

You hit the nail on the head. I was leading him to that very point.

Plus they travel together while away. You are in year 1 and I was talking about year 2. That is when you will stop focusing on what you can do to make her feel certain ways and more about how she should trying to make you feel loved and better.

Being able to look at her phone,and the GPS are worthless. She works with him. The value in both is to make sure she is where she says she is,and to assure there is NC. So..ok. She's at work. WITH OM. And,unless she stupid, she knows not to use her phone for after work communication.

You state those 2 things, as things she is doing to help heal the damage. But both are useless.

You don't use a var to monitor her. You use it to make sure you aren't being lied to again.

Demands are not punishment. They are a clear cut way to get through to your wife what you will no longer tolerate.

Requirements are a way to show self respect.

Everything is meaningless.
If she leaves the job, she could still have a burner.
If she never sees him in the office, they could still arrange secret lunch dates.
If she...
My position does not defy analysis. We can go down this rabbit hole forever. Right now, I don't think she is hiding anything. It would just make me MORE comfortable if she left the job because reconnecting with the AP is so likely even if they normally are keeping contact to professional only.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 3:51 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:46 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

@ThisOisOFine, what you said may be true, and she may have been saying some things in the past 48 hours that may indicate that she is starting to get it. But the bottom line is that she has done little to repair things yet. Little except writing out some sort of postnuptual that is. Talk is cheap.

--You have expressed how much you want her to find a new job, you even drew a line in the sand. She is still there at her old job. And giving you nonsense rationalizations. Man how long is she gonna hide behind her FOO issues. Do those trump everything else?

--Your BIL still does not know about your WW's sister's cheating on him. And more to the point, you do not know your whether WW will take your side in telling him or not.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 7:55 PM, February 13th (Thursday)]

Everything is meaningless.

If she leaves the job, she could still have a burner.

If she never sees him in the office, they could still arrange secret lunch dates.

If she...

My position does not defy analysis. We can go down this rabbit hole forever. Right now, I don't think she is hiding anything. It would just make me MORE comfortable if she left the job because reconnecting with the AP is so likely even if they normally are keeping contact to professional only.

You’re ignoring the obvious turd in the punchbowl here. Yes she could still do those things. But staying in her current job makes it so much damn easier, now doesn’t it? Come on, now.

except writing out some sort of postnuptual that is

As I understand it, it is not even that. It’s just some worthless wish list written on parchment that would not pass legal muster, hasn’t been vetted by a family law attorney and hasn’t been officially notarized and filed as an amendment to the marriage certificate. It’s about as worthless as a piece of tissue she’s blown her nose on, which is why she had no problem coughing it up. His WW ain’t stupid, whatever else she may be.

EDIT: Unduly harsh tone by me. I was intending to convey how I viewed your wife's "compliance" with this request, TIF, not you.

[This message edited by Thumos at 11:54 AM, February 14th (Friday)]

Tomorrow’s Friday. Has your moral reprobate of a SIL informed your BIL — or is this going to string along for another week as SIL executes her soft landing strategy and whatever trickle truth minimizing drivel she intends to use to mollify her husband?

Everything is meaningless.

If she leaves the job, she could still have a burner.

If she never sees him in the office, they could still arrange secret lunch dates.

If she...

My position does not defy analysis. We can go down this rabbit hole forever.

From several of your posts, it appears that logic matters to you. Spouses can do what they want. No guarantees. Our children can say one thing and do another and there is little we can do about it. The what if possibilities take almost everything out of our control.

Allowing close proximity between a WS and their AP would normally provide greater opportunity for breaking NC than not having close proximity to each other. As you noted, it is no guarantee, but it does reduce the risk. You have little control but you can control the boundaries that may offer some little bit of reduced risk.

Some of this is not really a part of the rabbit hole metaphor. If you had a rule that she must leave her job or you will leave the M, that is not a rabbit hole path, it is the opposite. It is a specific boundary with a consequence. For now, it looks like you are comfortable with additional wait and see time.

From several of your posts, it appears that logic matters to you. Spouses can do what they want. No guarantees. Our children can say one thing and do another and there is little we can do about it. The what if possibilities take almost everything out of our control.
Allowing close proximity between a WS and their AP would normally provide greater opportunity for breaking NC than not having close proximity to each other. As you noted, it is no guarantee, but it does reduce the risk. You have little control but you can control the boundaries that may offer some little bit of reduced risk.
Some of this is not really a part of the rabbit hole metaphor. If you had a rule that she must leave her job or you will leave the M, that is not a rabbit hole path, it is the opposite. It is a specific boundary with a consequence. For now, it looks like you are comfortable with additional wait and see time.

I understand that "work" is close proximity. I have mentioned multiple times that they don't work at the same physical location and don't have to work at the same physical location. I can confirm my wife's location by cell phone, and she hasn't gone to his office (he only ever works at one).
His office is about an hour each way from my wife's normal office.
Yes she could convey messages via work email, or IM or whatever. But to me that isn't really so different from the burner phone. My biggest concern, because it seems like OM is trying to reform too (in the sense that there is no reported personal contact aside from the one time he asked how things were going and my wife put up appropriate boundaries), is that his shit breaks down, and he comes crying to my wife. He might do that whether or not they work together, but it is far more likely if they are working together.
So yeah, I'm comfortable with wait and see (for now), and try to get my wife to understand her work isn't her value as a person, and that if she gives up something for the marriage, that the marriage isn't her value as a person either (the FOO issue is that her mother committed suicide after her divorce and that her mother sacrificed too much in the marriage).
We'll see if the event in May becomes some sort of final battle or not. Many things can change in a few months.
How would you all feel about an arrangement where I just go with her to the hotel and remote into work or take PTO? Is that too much effort from my side? It still might not be "enough" in some folks eyes because they could sneak around during work hours. Would be better if she just quit her job.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 3:51 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:46 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

When are you going to tell your BIL about his wife's cheating on him?

There was a reason that you told her you wanted her to either quit, or you would divorce her.

Why has that reason, changed for you. Why are you now willing to settle?

There was a reason that you told her you wanted her to either quit, or you would divorce her.
Why has that reason, changed for you. Why are you now willing to settle?

Two things.
1) I talked to a lawyer and realized I would get fucked if she wanted to fuck me. What I have (the "post nup") is really just what my wife says is "fair". She doesn't actually have to give me what's fair. She is a proven liar. All it does is solidify that fact to her face that she is a liar and has no integrity, not just emotional problems and poor decision making.
2) One of my friends is going through a divorce that was initially amicable, and now she has filed to vacate the original ruling, filed a restraining order, filed a violation of temporary restraining order (because my friend told a mutual friend he watched Marriage Story and told that friend his Ex might get something out of it), and filed for full custody claiming he is abusive. This is, of course, all horse shit.
So, the risk adjusted pain of divorce is currently higher than the risk adjusted pain of my wife keeping her job (assuming the A isn't ongoing). She has done enough other things that I am comfortable enough to keep trying to get her head out of her ass on true NC.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 3:50 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:46 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

She doesn'tactually have to give me what's fair. She is a proven liar. All it does is solidify that fact to her face that she is a liar and has no integrity, not just emotional problems and poor decision making.

Two things

1. Do you consider what she wrote down (and I assume signed and dated) fair?

2. If you got an actual post nup overseen by an attorney and signed and notarized and officially filed, that would in fact protect you from divorce rape, which is what you’re alluding to.

More than fair.
Signed and notarized would provide protection.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 3:50 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:46 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]