SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

She has not been able to hit the remorse stage yet because of her long held bitterness over my own failings as a husband

Your WW is continuing to sin by doing this. It is her problem.

I do mention that the Bible allows for divorce and remarriage in case of adultery.

The situation can be tricky. Catholics allow for divorce but not remarriage unless the divorced partner is dead. But particularly in the USA, you may petition for an annulment. Then, you may remarry.

Churches differ. Some are against it. Some have an official policy allowing it, but it is privately discouraged. Some allow it, but the individual members claim they cannot. I prefer the original teachings of the Bible.

I come from a church background. My mother was, is a church lady, but I am never surprised by hypocrisy for some reason. I figure it's difficult to know anyone deep down.

We had some pastors with issues. One cheated on his wife. Another was a molester. They left quietly. Another was an alcoholic who sought treatment. The congregation got rid of him anyway. In that case the members were the hypocrites.

...I know now I was being manipulated”.

This is blame-shifting. Until she's willing and able to own her choices, decision and actions, reconciliation is not likely to happen.

I'm not a religious man, so take my comments regarding faith with a grain of salt. I've read from all sorts of people on this site. I've read about priests (from whatever religion) who've had affairs. It would seem to me that no matter how devout a person might be, faith doesn't seem to interfere with infidelity.

because I knew it was wrong and I kept trying to fix it. I thought that if I just saw him again I could put an end to it and make it right again. I wanted to be his friend.”

“yes, I thought I could change what was going on. I know now I was being manipulated

There is no way this is truth. It's clearly some wacked out pretzel logic she has created over the years in her mind to avoid addressing the reality of what she did.

Agree ^^^ It's total bullshit. The only thing I disagree with is I don't think she is even telling herself that at all. She is saying whatever she thinks you will buy.

I will reiterate it may not have anything to do with wanting the AP, do you have any idea what it was she was seeking in the affair? And, why she was seeking it instead of coming to you and discussing it? These are important questions she needs to answer and "I was crazy" or "the devil made me do it", that's not going to cut it.

[This message edited by hikingout at 8:39 AM, January 10th (Friday)]

FWIW, when my ex ran off with a married man she was a deeply devout Christian. Read her Bible and prayed 2-3 hours a day. Very active in church.... I asked her pretty much the same questions about faith and betraying. She gave me the same garbage answers until one day she decided she simply couldn't be a Christian after all. Since then she goes back & forth and now is fully engulfed in legalism.

My parents are both very religious (Christian faith) and BOTH cheated on their spouses when they met. Faith doesn't stop infidelity. Who knows maybe they think they are already forgiven

I do know that she wasn't manipulated and sure her actions were crazy too but to use those as excuses... nah! She doesn't want to do the inner work where she sees that every action she took during her A was a decision and choice she made EVERY SINGLE TIME she met with her AP.

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 12:23 PM, January 10th (Friday)]

And, he wonders why I think he's an idiot.

Hehe. I don't like when people minimize sexual contact...a BJ is part of sex and if you got one and are still doing "romantic" things together, then Captain Obvious would like a word if you ask what comes next.

We got married at a quaint B&B. I wonder if that means our M isn't as valid in my fch's mind.

I meant that the church recognizes the marriage. I guess that usually does go hand in hand with it literally being held in a church too. Perhaps not always...but secular marriage vs religious are not necessarily the same thing.

Heck, one Jewish man WW knew thought our relationship wasn't valid, as in, it's okay for her to cheat on me because we weren't legally married (I do not think he would have held the same opinion if I was jewish or AP wasn't jewish.).

People have weird opinions on what is or is not valid.

[This message edited by ShatteredSakura at 12:38 PM, January 10th (Friday)]

I don't like when people minimize sexual contact...a BJ is part of sex and if you got one and are still doing "romantic" things together, then Captain Obvious would like a word if you ask what comes next.

🤣

That makes it even more stupid. He didn't minimize the BJ. He made sure to clarify with the polygrapher that he considered a BJ sex just as much as intercourse. So, yeah, no way I was buying that he had no idea the second time she came over for dinner that something might happen.

We had a civil ceremony. I am atheist, so I could not abide a religious ceremony. It would have been a farce to me. I know, weird, right? So, the church wouldn't recognize our M in any way, I would guess. Although, the current Pope seems pretty cool.

I am 100% sure that my fch would not agree that he sees our M as less valid because of where and how we got married. He was the one dead set on us getting married, not me.

That makes it even more stupid. He didn't minimize the BJ. He made sure to clarify with the polygrapher that he considered a BJ sex just as much as intercourse. So, yeah, no way I was buying that he had no idea the second time she came over for dinner that something might happen.

Lol the fact that he had to clarify it. It seems very common for people to claim oral or anything with the hands "is not sex". I think it's pretty immature way of thinking. You're naked in bed (okay not always naked for oral but-), doing everything but PIV...it's so damn intimate. WW and I were doing that sort of stuff as we slowly got comfortable with each other. It's Kinda A Big Deal.

I laugh when I hear promiscuous people (or sex workers) "reserve kissing on the mouth" for their significant other. Like, really? The lies we tell ourselves.

We had a civil ceremony. I am atheist, so I could not abide a religious ceremony. It would have been a farce to me. I know, weird, right? So, the church wouldn't recognize our M in any way, I would guess. Although, the current Pope seems pretty cool.

As a member of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, we don't believe in a Pope...he is more or less a Papal BigFoot.

(joking, obviously)

While we may not be Catholics, every year at Christmas my mom loves to watch midnight mass held at St Peter's at the Vatican. Growing up, she had a jewish friend who LOVED Christmas time and going to St Patrick's Cathedral in New York City. Even if you don't believe, there is a lot of beauty to be held.

She tells me she confessed, was forgiven and born again. To which I replied, well obviously God is the bigger person than I am. I may forgive but I’m sure I’ll never forget that you chose an intimate relationship multiple times with a married man while denying me sex, intimacy, truth, faithfullness, commitment and while betraying our sacred vows...Oh, and telling me you were no longer in love with me. All the while telling him you loved him, giving him every conceivable manner of sexual gratification, but now proclaiming it was LIMERENCE. Nope, not forgetting a single moment during that 3 1/2 year affair. And yes, he played you every step along the way and you bought it.

[This message edited by Niceguy25 at 1:42 PM, January 11th (Saturday)]

So, somewhere along the way to forgiveness she forgot about the part about making amends to the one she harmed. All is forgiven is the eyes of god, so there's nothing else she needs to do.

She is not remorseful. She is making excuses, blameshifting. How can she truly be forgiven in the eyes of god if she hasn't owned up to what she's done? She's using her religion as a get out of jail free card. She's a hypocrite.

My STBXH continues to pray to God (as per our common friend) that God will get him out of karma. Yet is living with the OW while still married to me.

The OW loves to quote bible scriptures and posts it in her social media while knowing she is having an affair with a married man and encouraged my STBXH to leave me.

I don't know how they do it. Doesn't feel like true repentance to me.

She tells me she confessed, was forgiven and born again.

How convenient. Ted Bundy on his deathbed, now going to Heaven. Etc.

By the way, what did she confess to? Because, from your threads, she claims she can't even remember what took place during her A, and she has no recollection of proclamations of love for the AP, nor acts of non-love toward you. So if she can't recall the details of her A, how can she possibly have confessed and "been forgiven"?

My nickel version of the Christian faith...

A God whose character is love and relationship makes an amazing world, gives it to humans to care for and establishes relationship/love with them. The only ask is to continue in love and trust. They decide to not trust and love, betray God and believe they can do whatever they want. Consequences ensue, including a massive break in the relationship, but God offers reconciliation for those who will come back into relationship and love.

My interpretation of an affair...

From within a relationship of trust and love (albeit not perfect), a WS decides that they'll toss that aside, betray their BS and do whatever they want. The relationship is massive altered and trust is shattered. Reconciliation may or may not be offered. If reconciliation is offered, it may or may not be received as the WS needs to want to work on reestablishing trust/love.

My take on your situation...

You've offered the potential for reconciliation, however your W doesn't understand her responsibility for shattering her faith and marriage or the depth of the damage she has caused. Her past actions demonstrate that her real belief is that she can do what she wants. Her current actions and attitudes show she still believes this -- that it wasn't her fault (she was crazy, she was being manipulated) and that saying a confession allows her to move forward without consequence. If she doesn't own up to the fact that she was fully responsible for the choices she made (betraying both her proclaimed faith and her vows to you) and that there is something broken deep inside of her that allowed her to do this, then she isn't remorseful and she isn't a candidate right now for reconciliation.

My WH didn’t use the word crazy but he did say it was as if he was outside of himself watching it happen. Our MC who is spiritually based always reminds both of us to refer to it as a sin. Early on I would ask why questions .. why would you do .. how could you be so.. and it did help me to look at it for what the A is- sin. Keeping that in mind I still ask those questions yet again but that’s another story...

I’m beginning to think I’m the one who’s crazy for thinking I will ever get the truth rather than the story she has concocted to cover herself and her totally out of the normal behavior during this period in our life. She has repeatedly told his I failed her while she was vulnerable. Last night she told me none of it was my fault. She wrote, called and repeatedly told him she loved him and wanted a life with him, but now tells me that isn’t what she meant. When I challenge the truth vs today’s version, she tells me I simply don’t understand. Well, she’s right on that account, I don’t.

I’m beginning to think I’m the one who’s crazy for thinking I will ever get the truth rather than the story she has concocted to cover herself and her totally out of the normal behavior during this period in our life.

The crazy part, frankly, is that you are now only beginning to think this. It has been clear to everybody else here for a long time.

Further, I think your are clinging to a fiction if you believe that her behavior during her A was "totally out of the normal behavior" for her. I think it IS her normal, as evidenced by the secret card you found, by her refusal to disclose to you and the ridiculous mental gymnastics she puts you through. I think she's just white knuckling it, out of fear of consequences.

Im 2.5 years into trying to deal with he mess that my wife created. 4 affairs ( three long term,) over 30 years marriage.

Faith is a very tricky issue for me since i found out. I am a Pastor - have been since we got married. She has been apart of the church since day one ( and before in her own church). She sat through countless sermons, bibles studies etc all while she was carrying on her affairs. Even at times talking about how could other do what they are doing to there families.

This has led a very real crisis of faith for me. I question where was God? I question her faith and beliefs and wonder was it only words? She talks about free will and sin as well as being forgiven. I get that - but the walk of forgiveness is a hard road for me to walk for the first time in my life.

I struggle some days with truly forgiving her and even with forgiving God.

Reviva, I feel your passion n but I don’t blame God. I blame the AssWad who said all the right things to my WS knowing he was lying to get in her head and her pants, and I blame my wife for turning away from God and doing things she clearly knew/knows were wrong. She thinks and says she’s forgiven but I think God sees her heart and may feel otherwise.

I’m beginning to think I’m the one who’s crazy

That's what gaslighting does. It makes you question your own reality. It makes you feel crazy. She is deliberately doing this to you. She's probably done it your entire relationship, and you weren't aware. Trust your gut. Trust yourself.

My mother did this to me my entire life. I knew something wasn't right, but I thought I was the problem. I didn't know what she was doing to me until I was in my late 30s and a therapist said to me, "That must've made you feel crazy." Yes, it did, and it was deliberate, and it was wrong.

Revic, some people are just bad. It's very possible, especially with the serial cheating and hypocrisy, that your CW is one of them. She says the words and appears to be genuine, but it's all a lie. She's pretending. Actions speak so much louder than words.