SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I think separating for a period of time e while you make up your mind is a good call. Good luck

Just checking in to see how you are doing.

Stay strong.

You are NOT alone!!!

You can do this

WorthlessGuy

How are you doing? How is it going?

I see your WW did end up reposting. That is good. It seems you are both minimalists though when interacting with the brain trust here at SI. I’d encourage you both to continue discussing, not just with us, but with ICs and each other.

Finally, I want you to know something explicitly. It is possible to love her again. It’s possible to care for and enjoy being with and even desire her again. It takes a lot of hard work and dedication from each of you. She has to realize the weight of what she has done and treat it as such. She needs to dedicate herself to repairing the damage she created all those years ago.

But if she does, and if you find you do care enough to keep her in your life, you will come to realize that the work she now does Because of her love for you, is far more than she ever gave to her AP.

We can discuss what that work entails.

But if she does it, I believe the Pride you will feel for her having taken such absolute effort and dedication to it, is something you can build a new relationship upon.

Just some thoughts. Check in when you can.

[This message edited by smolderingdark at 6:51 PM, June 17th (Wednesday)]

Smoldering, you may have some good points but you are not supposed to cross post from other threads or from Wayward to JFO.

Hey WG, I wanted to tell you that I really feel for you. I didn't find out about my WW'S A years later like you did, but we have been married 29 years, and S for two of those. I cannot wait for the D to be finalized. I get giddy thinking about flushing that turd.

I often take a peak over at the Wayward threads to get a sense of the other side of the situation we all face. It may e changed the outcome.e of my M had my WW chosen to use SI as a way to work on her problems, so I think that this may be of benefit to any spouse in R.

I have taught for many years, decades really, and I have taught and evaluated writing. After such a long time, one becomes very sensitive to not only what is written, but how that message is constructed. When I have been emotional, and quite often a bit drunk, posting on SI, my posts have a certain flavour to them. They have errors and run ons and spelling mistakes, and they have a rawness to them. When I am in a better place, they are more carefully constructed.

Having both a BS and your WW on SI brings with it some benefits and some challenges. For a truly a remorseful partner, it affords them a glimpse into the heart of the person they destroyed, and it can be an invaluable tool in the healing process. Often, at least in my case, my communication here has been naked and authentic.

But there is another side to this. For the unremorseful partner, access to the BS's posts becomes another tool in his or her toolbox. Having access to these posts, might hamper one's ability to be fully honest, even with oneself, and it might be very tempting for a WS.to read and react to what a BS has posted. It reminds of the Mel Gibson movie, "What Women Want", in which a shallow cad magically got the ability to hear what women were thinking. Initially he used it to validate himself even more with sexual conquests, but eventually realized that an authentic relationship was what he really needed.

Now, please dont get me wrong. I have no idea how things are playing out and only you can truly asses your situation. But I do suspect that after such a long relationship, you can read your WW, sort of reading between the lines. It takes a long time for a WS to get to a point where they can delve into those dark places within themselves. I often see long posts which check off all the boxes in their proper order, in an effort to show a BS, "See, look how badly I feel. Now you'll have to forgive me". This is a milestone on the journey towards authentic R for many. But for others, it might read like another effort at manipulation and image management. Remember, a WS csn look a BS in the eye and lied to him or her so convincingly that they had no idea of the betrayal. Often, they have lied for years and gotten pretty good at it. That's not a switch one just flips.

And then there is the frequency of posting. A BS tends to post often, while a WS does less so. But they do post more than once or twice and then walk away. They come back in an effort to dig into the reasons for their choices, to really understand themselves. A BS must ask themselves, and again, only they will know, if their WS is communicating authentically. Is he or she baring their soul? Or is the BS carefully constructing a response base on something that they have read? Is it a bullet list of hot words from a self help site? If so, then this site affords a WS an invaluable source of Intel in what is an emotional game.

Sorry for my diatribe. I wish good things for you and I hope you find your peace, a part or together.

I have edited this response in order to be more respectful to the SI guidelines. I hope it us sufficient. My apologies to all.

[This message edited by Justsomeguy at 12:47 PM, June 18th (Thursday)]

A reminder to all. Discussions about the Wayward forum, participating members, or topics contained are prohibited outside of that forum. Give people space to work on their own issues.

Thank you all for your comments and advice. Not been online much lately to reply so sorry about that. Where are we now? Well, I leave on 5th of July, which is the first opportunity due to the covid19 lock down. I'm pretty sure I would have ran as soon as I found out if I could have as the last 3 months have been a living hell 24/7. Remorse? seems like more regret for the consequences than remorse for hr actions to me. The trickle truth is still seeping out as far as I can see and I've had to come to terms with the fact that I will probably never know the true extent of her cheating. As it was so long ago the default answer to any of my questions is 'I cant remember' well I'm sorry but this was a major life event and I'm sure if it was me I would remember no matter how long ago it was. Maybe the truth is so bad that it can never be told?? It has taken this forum to make her see that because it was so long ago and because the lies have been going on for years that it makes it worse as its tainted every memory we have together. She, and her friends seemed to be of the opinion that because it was years ago and because its history that it somehow makes it easier for me to forgive and forget. They are so so very wrong. The anger, depression and upset come in waves and I dont know how I will feel at any given point. One day wake up very angry at what she has ruined and the next tears for what we have lost and then sometimes despair at what the future holds. I still love her, but not like I did and hope she makes a happy life for herself after me. Shes never bared her soul or given me reason to believe that shes told me everything and is now being 100% honest and I cannot live with that. I have learned the hard way that trickle truth is a slow and very painful torture and unless you've been through it, you dont understand the agony it causes. On her part, she will never have to suffer that as I have been true to her all my life and I'm guessing her next partner will be some damaged soul that would never betray her like all us here as we know the misery it brings. The dark thoughts still creep up on me from time to time and I am managing to keep them at bay for the moment. I'll just have to see what life decides to throw at me now and try to start again.

Hang in there man. July 5th. Light at the end of your tunnel.

She does not hold a ton of relationship value in the open market. You are the loving, trustworthy, honest guy. She is the opposite. (She lied for a quarter of a century) Thus you are in a much better position.

It will be much easier (and more likely) for you to replace her, than the other way around. She knows this. So do her friends. So be prepared for a full court press.

It could come in various forms. The typical tactics include “hysterical bonding” aka pussy coma, which is just lots of sex. Promises. Begging. Pleading.

Sometimes they use shaming language. “You should just get over it.” “You are so insecure/immature.” Etc.

Stay strong and get your distance.

In the end you answer to no one but yourself. And you are the prize.

As it was so long ago the default answer to any of my questions is 'I cant remember' well I'm sorry but this was a major life event and I'm sure if it was me I would remember no matter how long ago it was. Maybe the truth is so bad that it can never be told?? It has taken this forum to make her see that because it was so long ago and because the lies have been going on for years that it makes it worse as its tainted every memory we have together.

You've made a determination to leave, and honestly... I do believe that no cheater is owed a second chance. For some people, infidelity is a deal-breaker, plain and simple. And it's actually best that, for people who understand this aspect of themselves, they go ahead and end the relationship. The most unhappy BS's are the ones who can't (or won't) recognize this in themselves.

But before you go, let me challenge your thinking on a couple of items...

You're very upset because you can't understand how something as serious as cheating could happen without the WS remembering every detail. But there's actually an answer for that... Trauma. The WS isn't traumatized by their actions the way we are. They might end up traumatized by the consequences and by the realization that they were not as good of a person as they thought they were, but the memories aren't processed through the slow-motion lens of a traumatic injury like our questions are.

If you ask me about any two boyfriends I had before marriage, I could tell you their names, whether we had sex, why we broke up, etc., but I couldn't give you details. I couldn't provide dates, or sexual positions, or remember conversations. Even important things that happened twenty-five years ago, I can't give details. I can't remember the last words my grandmother spoke to me before she died or an in depth conversation with my great-grandmother, and I loved them both dearly. Memory also varies from person to person. My sister has a much more detailed memory than mine. Our brains organize information a bit differently, even though we're genetically similar.

My point is that for the WS, their memories of past events are being processed in a very typical way. Some things stand out, others are forgotten, and there seems to be no more rhyme or reason to it than if I asked you what you ate for lunch twenty-five years ago. You might remember some places you ate frequently or what you liked on the menu, but the details are fuzzy. So, you are asking questions from a position of trauma. In your mind, these things were too important to forget. But WS's aren't traumatized by their own actions. These events aren't stored any differently than other events. In fact, if the WS is traumatized at the time of the cheating, it's even less likely that the memories would be clear, sharp, and in narrative order.

The other thing you've brought up a couple of times now is that your memories are "tainted". But that too is colored by trauma. I'm over five years out in a 35+ year marriage, and that was my reaction too, everything was tainted, nothing had meant enough to my WH that he wouldn't cheat, I had wasted my life on a worthless liar. But this too is a matter of perspective. You get a few years out from it, process the trauma, heal from the depression, and normal perspective returns. My life wasn't a waste. My memories have meaning and value. And while it's true that there were times my WH was pulling the wool over my eyes, for the vast majority of time, he wasn't.

Bottom line, trauma changes everything. But after awhile, the trauma gets resolved and you can see the world as it IS again. The memories you valued before, can (and probably will) be of value to you again. I know how hard that is to believe when you're in such a starkly bleak place in your life, but it gets better. Really, it does.

Without doubt, your WW robbed you of agency when she cheated before marriage. You might have decided not to marry her at all. And she doesn't have a time machine to go back and return that option to you. So, it's definitely within your purview to decide that it was a deal-breaker and opt to end the relationship. That said, the trauma WILL resolve itself at some point and these two factors you're citing above will not feel immediate and imperative the way they do right now. I just wanted to point that out to you in case you have any reservations.

For more in depth information on trauma and how it affects both your mind and your body, consider reading through a copy of The Body Keeps Score by Bessel van der Kolk. It explained so much of what I was going through, and I felt much better realizing that my trauma, and the way it had colored my outlook on life, was recoverable. I knew what steps I needed to take after that, and I could hang onto the knowledge that it was a temporary state of being.

The trickle truth is still seeping out as far as I can see and I've had to come to terms with the fact that I will probably never know the true extent of her cheating. As it was so long ago the default answer to any of my questions is 'I cant remember' well I'm sorry but this was a major life event and I'm sure if it was me I would remember no matter how long ago it was. Maybe the truth is so bad that it can never be told??

I too found out years later....and the “I don’t remember” makes me so mad for you. My WH said the same. In my opinion, the affair and the many choices they made during it, was the likely the single most important action(s) in their lives (at least in my case). How does one not remember cheating on their partner. For me, I would clearly remember my actions when I was making the most defining choices in my life. For my WH...at the time of the affair, he simply didn’t care about the damage or effects on me or my children. It is clear selfishness...plain and simple. And not telling the truth is more the same. They know that you have no way to verify anything anymore...so it’s easier to continue the lies.

I hope you get some truth and the trickle truth stops...it’s the years of lies and manipulation of our lives that is most devastating. The years of taking away of our choice to be able to decide our own lives and know our own truth is abusive in my eyes.

Healing takes a long time and is very messy and not linear. I hope you find some peace some day.

With some JFO stories, it’s easy to tell that the WS is a lost cause and not worth the trouble.

With your WW, I find it’s harder to tell if she would be a candidate for R. Some posters here are pro D no matter what. Some are more middle ground. I think Maybe you have both options, R or D; it would be up to you to evaluate this. You seem to be leaning towards D, which is fine too.

Having two "not great" choices (D or R) is better than one "not great" choice (D).

I think it’s possible that she doesn’t remember some information like ChamomileTea said. However, with your WW cheating for a year, she obviously has issues and is the broken one and you are the victim of her selfish behavior.

If you move in July, just don’t stay by yourself; seek support from friends and family. You will get through this one way or another

[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 10:04 AM, June 18th (Thursday)]

I agree with the others. Asking her to give you every detail will just not work. No matter how deep the affairs were, she's not going to remember the particulars two decades later.

Hell I can't remember what I had for dinner last Tuesday.

WG,

I've seen her act as if its nothing because it was so long ago

I have sat and wondered if I was making too much of it and torturing both of us over something that went on so long ago

There is no statute of limitations on murder whether that be of a person, trust, love or a marriage

She, and her friends seemed to be of the opinion that because it was years ago and because its history that it somehow makes it easier for me to forgive and forget

She might want to consider losing these friends because just like there is no statute of limitations for murder

I leave on 5th of July

There is also no statute of limitations in regards to the price that might need to be paid

By not disclosing to you what she did while you were dating and in a committed relationship she stole from you the opportunity to make your own decision based on all the information.

Anything she did prior to you being a couple in a committed relationship should not be of any consequence but as this happened while you were it is like it happened during the marriage

It would appear as though you and cantbeme123 are traveling pretty much the same road.

Although it appears as though he is taking a different direction

Neither direction is wrong but just goes to prove that no two people, or circumstance, is exactly the same

IMHO, she can easily remember the details. It was the single most risky` and sexually exciting time of her life- and she can't remember? I'll call BS on that. All day long.

As to leaving, I support that. I am a fan of R, but when betrayal comes to light from the darkness, one needs time to clear their head and really decompress. The WS needs time to decide just how badly they may want to salvage the relationship and what to do about it.

I wish you well.

IMHO, she can easily remember the details. It was the single most risky` and sexually exciting time of her life- and she can't remember? I'll call BS on that. All day long.

As someone for whom this all went down 25 years ago, based on experience I'd say that I'd not expect her to be able to remember all the details. The big moving parts, yes. Specific words spoken, or hours or dates? What color the walls were? Make and model of car? For something that it sounds like she wishes she could forget? Bits and pieces, but not the whole story.

Can you remember in detail all of something that happened 25 years ago?

Which is unfortunate, because that is what you want.

I wonder if minute details are what he seeks. I would think the major stuff( how did they meet, the logistics of the deception, most of the assorted lies, who else knew, rough number of encounters and duration, feelings expressed, money spent, gifts, that sort of thing) should be no problem for a person of normal intelligence.

Hi W,

I would agree with both HouseofPlane and Stinger. What level of detail are you not getting? Are you at least getting the key “broad brush” details? Also, what’s your plan after moving out? Is there any hope of R or is D the path you’ve chosen? Which ever it is, stay strong and use the wisdom offered here. Neither path is easy.

“I can’t remember” is, in most cases, complete and utter B.S.

I asked my WW to describe her encounters with the other men. The 1st was in 2001, dday 1 was 2015. She remembered every detail. Having sexual relations with someone other than your spouse or significant other is not something you forget, but just my opinion. My WW has a bad memory but she was able to provide accurate details.

Now, when I came to being totally honest, that took 3 years and two more ddays. My WW was able to describe the sexual acts very clearly, but when it came to thoughts and feelings, these were the things she fought me on.

Do I have everything? Who knows, probably not, but I have enough.....finally.

The truth lies somewhere between, but a hell of a lot closer to she remembers what she did.

Does she know if she fucked him 111 or 117 times? Probably not.

Does she remember which position she was in, and exactly what words were said, at a specific "clock time"? Unlikely.

But...

Does she know if she "went all out" for him, engaging in no-holes-barred sex, parking lot, in your house, did things for him that she never did or wouldn't do with you? etc.

Absolutely she does.

She knows EXACTLY "what she did".

A poster above said she cannot remember specific positions etc. with her two prior boyfriends before her marriage.

BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAT AND YOUR WIFE.

One is a regular relationship, the other is a planned operation to deceive you so she could engage in specific planned inappropriate behaviors and acts.

Your wife engaged in a willful deception, had to plan the logistics of it, and then she had to purposefully keep it from you for 25 years.

And then, she told you a little bit, then a little more, then a little more.

She wasn't trickle-truthing you because she was "remembering new stuff".

Do not buy the "I don't remember" nonsense.

Would she believe you if you had a sexual affair, and you were like "I don't remember if she gave me a blowjob"! "I don't remember if I ate her out"

She wouldn't believe it because nobody should believe that bullshit.

Simple rule: If you remember enough to know you have to lie about what you did, then you remember what you did.

***

Anyway, if you are leaving her, then maybe it doesn't matter. She can have her secret lies and her memories of cheater-dude to keep her warm at night.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 7:11 PM, June 18th (Thursday)]