SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

33 years of history. That’s a lot to throw away even though he opened the trash can lid

This for me as well, but 24 years. I couldn’t just throw it away without trying to work it out. At the time of DDay, the affair was over for a year. He knew the “why” it happened and immediately took responsibility for his choices. He has done everything he can to earn back my trust.

DDay was over a year ago now and we are in a really good place now. Probably the best it has been in years.

Not gonna lie though, finances and our children were a big reason as well.

Do you ever argue since there is no love tempering the mood?

This question bothered me from the first time I read it, but I didn't know why. I woke up yesterday morning knowing. (Yes, things weigh on my mind like that.)

I remembered the question a little differently. I remembered it as asking how you temper yourself during an argument if there's no love. So, I'll address that.

The question implies that the only reason for acting like a decent human being is for love. IOW, if you don't love the other person, you won't (can't) be civil. That's ridiculous, of course. We do it constantly when we are around strangers and acquaintances. Honestly, I think my H, who says he loves me, has a harder time being decent and civil.

Rereading the question, I see that it's slightly different from what I remember, so I'll address that. Arguing is a normal part of any LTR. If you don't ever argue, someone is being honest. My H didn't argue before. He stuffed all of his thoughts and feelings until they built up into huge resentments that resulted in him cheating.

Maybe if he had been honest and argued with me some, that wouldn't have happened. If he had been completely honest with me from the beginning, I know it wouldn't have happened because I wouldn't have married him.

He, apparently, thought I had an anger problem because I expressed myself. The first time we went to couples therapy, many years before he cheated, he left with an anger management book recommendation from the therapist. She decided after just the initial meat and greet session that he was the one with anger issues. He was quite nonplussed.

Of course, he never got the book and didn't follow up in any way, and here we are. He hasn't really spoken to me or acknowledged my presence since Friday because he's angry about something. At least, that's my assumption based on his behavior and the vibes I'm getting from him (I'm very empathic.). I don't actually know that he's angry because he hasn't said anything. There's no point in me asking because he will deny it.

We're not fighting. I'm not exuding anger. We're able to have conversations about things that need to be talked about, like grocery shopping.

This is turning into a book, but I want to address other question about having fun and joking. My H hasn't ever really done that. I didn't see it before because he was so accommodating. He would gladly go along with whatever I planned for fun. He didn't get excited about it or exclaimed that he really enjoyed it afterward. He doesn't plan things for fun, himself.

I joke. I act goofy sometimes. I plan family "fun" stuff sometimes. I put "fun" in quotes because I'm not sure the kids would always agree that it's fun. If i don't plan anything, my H is all business almost all the time. That's just how he has always been.

[This message edited by cocoplus5nuts at 8:47 AM, June 14th (Sunday)]

Haha, sisoon! Yes, I just saw that autocorrect typo. Should read, "women's lib". My mom, being the narcissist that she was, grabbed that bull by the horns and ran with it. Her happiness and enjoyment were paramount. Us kids would be ok regardless of our circumstances. No need to take us into consideration. The only time she paid attention was when we got in her way. Unfortunately, in those days, dads very rarely custody of their children. Custody defaulted to the mother unless severe neglect or abuse could be proved.

I think the way to get around coming across as sanctimonious or arrogant is to stick to your own experience, thoughts, and feelings. Instead of asking, "Is that enough for you?", maybe say, "That would not be enough for me. I also need x, y, and z."

My experience is/was...

I feel/think...

There are some members here who, while I'm sure are trying to be helpful, come across as know-it-alls who try to put everyone in their little boxes based on their experiences, thoughts, feelings, and pathologies. They seem to assume everyone in their situation is like them. "I couldn't live that way, so you must be miserable."

Like I said, I can't imagine staying just for love. I'm sure it works for some, and good on you. That would not work for me.

For people in non-traditional (for lack of a better description) marriages, is sexual fidelity an expectation or requirement?

Did you mean to post that here, HardKnocks? Because I don’t think anybody here has said they have a non-traditional marriage. If you’re talking about people staying together for more than just love, then i don’t see that as non-traditional, and I very much expect that he have sex, or any physical contact of a sexual/romantic nature, with just me.

Of course I meant to post that here, Landclark. Did you miss my parenthesis?

Thank you for your reply.

I would be interested in hearing from others.

I didn’t miss the parenthesis but am very confused as to how you’ve read these comments and decided to ask if we are somehow in open relationships now. I have no idea how you would have gotten that from this. So what, because we have other reasons for staying we are now somehow ok with our partners screwing others? Is that not how we ended up being betrayed in the first place? Not how we got here, to this point?

Honestly your question is stupid and I think you’re fishing for drama. Find it elsewhere.

[This message edited by landclark at 7:18 PM, June 14th (Sunday)]

Obviously this is a very sensitive subject for you, Landclark. You've completely distorted my post. I don't mind, because as you've stated; you're confused. My question was legitimate. You might want to look into why you have had such a powerful reaction.

Best of luck!

Of course, the old I struck a nerve so I must be on to something. It can’t be because you’re being ridiculous, right? First you call my marriage non-traditional when there’s nothing non-traditional about it. Then you ask if I expect faithfulness still. Why would I not? That doesn’t even make sense. Absolutely nothing written here suggests that I’m now in an open marriage.

So no, you’re not on to anything. Your question based on the comments here is in no way legitimate.

As far as my reaction, it’s because I’m sick of exactly this. People twisting things around because it doesn’t fit into your mold. If everybody here had said omg, I love them so, plus I stay for this, this and this, you wouldn’t have even asked the question.

Are you considering an open marriage? If so I suggest you start your own post.

And if as you say I’m just confused on your motivation in asking, you’ve had an opportunity to explain and have chosen not to, which leads me to believe I’m correct in my reaction.

[This message edited by landclark at 7:05 AM, June 15th (Monday)]

Now, it boils down to the plain fact that he is my person. Always more reasons than that, but him being my person is how I sum it up.

I agree. If we look at a relationship that is described as "we are each others person" then you can, in some ways, dispel with the love definition debate that people always think others understand but for which no one is even talking the same language about. What is love. When you figure it out, you can bet that what you land on is not the what many others would agree it is. Can you really have a succefful and rewarding M without love. I guess we would have to ask those that don't and yet say they do.

OwningItNow, you asked the question:

1. Do you ever argue since there is no love tempering the mood? If so, how often?

The number of fights between people that "love" love each other is so common, it is a cliche. Love can't even temper some from cheating, much less ensuring the tempering of arguments. Again, whatever love means.

If one simply accepts they found their person, without trying to define or defend what that means in the context of the love thing, they may have cracked the code of getting through life with less drama and possibly even more satisfaction. I think you can't very well be someone's person without also wanting what's best for them and being a willing partner. But, I don't get to define what it means to be someone's person for others.

I would much more readily say that my fWW is my person, than I would say that she is the love of my life. I don't even know what the latter is. I am think I know the former.

Landclark, while you may have started the thread you do realize you aren't the only poster on the thread?

While it's clear you're triggered over things in the past that have nothing to do with me, a simple "In my case fidelity is required" would have sufficed. Instead you lose your shit, but that is not my problem.

FYI-Open marriages are not about infidelity if they are agreed upon. Again, if love is not a requirement in a marriage, why would there be a presumption of sexual fidelity? As has been stated several times, people stay for a variety of reasons. It's completely legitimate to ask how this would this be navigated in a loveless marriage.

You can simply skip my comments if they cause you terror, Landclark.

Again, if anyone else cares to answer, feel free.

Right, I am now triggered and terrorized. I did answer your question, you got snippy, and kept going. But it’s all on me, right?

“why would there be a presumption of sexual fidelity?”

Why wouldn’t there be? Lack of crazy romantic love in a committed relationship doesn’t mean people are free to do as they wish. Perhaps you missed that we are still in committed relationships?

Also hard to skip your comments when I’m emailed every time you comment since I am the one who started this thread. I strongly suggest you start your own and get the answers you desire that way.

[This message edited by landclark at 7:27 AM, June 15th (Monday)]

Perhaps you missed that we are still in committed relationships?

But not all committments are the same, nor should there be a presumption of such.

No need for me to start a new thread, maybe you can simply stop responding to me, and give other people a chance.

It seems like at this point you just want to have the last word and then play innocent. So yeah, we are done here. Take care.

Actually no, I am waiting to see if others care to respond to my post, which was my original intention, and remains so.

[This message edited by HardKnocks at 8:26 AM, June 15th (Monday)]

Hardknocks, I'm with landclark on this one. I don't see how your question fits into the discussion on this thread.

non-traditional (for lack of a better description) marriages,

Will you define what you mean by "traditional" marriage? I doubt you mean what it has meant throughout most of marriage history. Traditional marriages were arranged. There was rarely love involved. Many times, the future spouses didn't even see each other until the wedding day. I have a feeling that's not what you mean since you essentially implied no love means no expectation of fidelity.

That is ridiculous. Unless someone specifically states that they have a mutually agreed upon open marriage, the assumption would be that fidelity is expected. Otherwise, why get or stay married. No one on here has said they are staying with an active cheater. No one on here has said they now have an open M. Your question does not make sense here without further explanation. 🙄

I require fidelity. I do not expect it. That does not mean that I will accept infidelity. I hope you can understand what I'm saying here.

DIFM, another amazing post. I like the idea of thinking of my H as my person. I was never one to believe in soulmates or the love of my life. I don't think that's real. My person is, though. The person I chose to build and spend a life with. The person who provides me with what I need.

I agree that things get tricky when we start talking about love. A lot of people on here describe love as a verb, actions. I don't think of love that way. To me, love is a feeling. When people on here say they stay for love, I imagine they are talking about being "in love" with their partners. Love, to me, feels like having empathy and compassion for others, not wanting people to experience pain. I'm told I'm an empath, which would explain why I think that way. I feel others' pain, so, obviously, I wouldn't want anyone to experience pain because then I experience pain.

No need for me to start a new thread, maybe you can simply stop responding to me, and give other people a chance.

Actually, there is a need for you to start another thread about your question. What you are doing is called threadjacking, which is normally frowned upon. This is landclark's thread. She started it with a specific question. Your question is not relevant.

I did not use "non-traditional" in the correct sense, but I did qualify that in parenthesis.

Unless someone specifically states that they have a mutually agreed upon open marriage, the assumption would be that fidelity is expected.

I don't assume anything, which is why I asked.

No one on here has said they now have an open M.

So far, maybe not. But maybe there are members who have read the thread who have not yet commented. Sexual fidelity may not be required by couples who have other interests at heart. I don't see how that's "ridiculous."

But there seems to be at least some judgment regarding open marriages, which I find interesting, and ironic, to say the least.

I could have written your post Except my ex wh wasn’t remorseful. He pretended nothing happened. And we continued on as if nothing happened. Except I was very hurt. Trying to carry on. It buildt up. I did all the things you listed.

What was the outcome? I was the only one trying. Exwh cheated repeatedly. He left me for another women who he barely knew. He just disappeared. He didn’t take his clothes. I get his part obviously ruined the marriage. My part was the same. I was trying for your listed reasons. We were married 36 years. That meant a lot for me.

Somehow the grown children blame me. They are bitter. Angry. Treat me without respect. My entire life shifted. All my efforts were for nothing. I should have left long ago. It did not improve or help to stay. It really does takes remorse and effort. One person can’t save this

Now over two years later , my grown children are starting to accept. They see for themselves. He has treated them badly and now they see. A lot of damage has been done. I feel shocked. Confused. Hurt. And once again. I just have to live through it and with it. By all

It doesn’t always turn out. No matter what you try. What efforts are made. Or why you stay. So much is out of your control. So much depends on your spouse and their choices.

[This message edited by cancuncrushed at 9:06 AM, June 15th (Monday)]